| Author | Message | ||
     Nick Bellistri (Nickbell) New Member Username: Nickbell Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2002 |
I just decided to spring for some synthetic winch line from masterpull after my steel cable developed a nice kink from an impromtu winch fest during the last snow storm. anyways... the gentleman on the phone suggested i invested in an aluminum hawse or fairlead b/c the steel fairlead will abrade the synthetic line. anybody have any experience with this. i dont mind buying another fairlead or hawse just want to make sure this isnt a sales pitch... thanks | ||
| Eric N (Grnrvr) Senior Member Username: Grnrvr Post Number: 1246 Registered: 02-2002 |
You should get an aluminum hawse fairlead for the masterpull line. Steel will abrade the line after a while and the roller fairleads could pinch it causing it to snap. Also, if you get knicks in the fairlead you will want to buff or grind them out so that they don't abrade the line as well. I have some synth line and haven't used it yet cause I can't find a fairlead that fits my winch correctly. | ||
| Milan (Milan) Member Username: Milan Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2002 |
Or you could take your steel fairlead and polish it. I have not done it yet. I use a roller fl without problems so far (2 yrs) but would like the alum one better. Definitely don't use the steel hawse fl as is. | ||
| Nick Bellistri (Nickbell) New Member Username: Nickbell Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2002 |
any body know where to get aluminum rollers for my fairlead... | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 560 Registered: 02-2002 |
if nicks are the problem, why not just put a new steel fairlead on? it should smooth when new shouldn't it? I just ordered a synthetic line also and didn't give this aspect much thought. guess I'll have to address this issue as well. Jaime | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Senior Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 92 Registered: 02-2003 |
well, it's my understanding that if the situation is just right it can catch in the corner where the two rolls meet and get cut up. example would be winching up a hill with the anchor to the far right or left. i just noticed http://www.rockware.net/prod/index.shtml is selling some fairleads, price seems steep for some aluminum, and the name scribed into the top doesn't help with price/machine time either. now that i look at it again, i would wan't a full bell mouth radius on that sum-bitch. rd | ||
| Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Senior Member Username: Gregdavis Post Number: 680 Registered: 08-2002 |
There's a company that's making the hawse fairleads from Delrin or something similar, at a price comparable to the aluminum units. I think it's SpiderTrax.com, but I'm not sure. Roller fairleads have been know to abrade and cut synthetic lines because as mentioned above, if you're pulling off-center, the line can work its way into the gaps between the rollers. And for what that synthetic line costs, I think it's worth it to spend the extra $$ and get the proper type of fairlead. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Senior Member Username: Billb Post Number: 663 Registered: 02-2002 |
You can get the same thing from spidertrax for about $45. I know Kyle's gonna bitch slap me, but I think I'm going to try one on the new bumper. Bill | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 561 Registered: 02-2002 |
yeah, but SpiderTrax only has limited sizes: "Spidertrax Aluminum Fairlead for Warn 6000-9500 Winches". does any one know if the roller fairlead for a Warn M10000 is the same as a 9500? or are there any other sources?? Jaime | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 562 Registered: 02-2002 |
ok, I just talked with SpiderTrax. The overal length is 11-3/4", the slot width is 7", and center to center hole width is 10". with that info you can see if it fits your winch. they also have "alot" in stock. Jaime | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Senior Member Username: Billb Post Number: 667 Registered: 02-2002 |
True - but other than figuring out how to attach it, the width of the opening on the Spidertrax version is a touch wider than the drum on the Ramsey RE12K, so it should be OK Bill | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 563 Registered: 02-2002 |
thats what I meant by the word "fit". does it meet the criteria to work on your particular winch i.e. can it be attached, does the opening width correspond with the drum, etc.. I'm hoping it does work on mine since as Greg mentioned, it was fucking expensive vs steel cable. Jaime | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 1855 Registered: 10-2001 |
bill. not sure if you knew, but i got a masterpull line for your old setup. been working great. used it LOTS at SCC pulling a 11K panel van down the road to evans camp.  only issue i had with the line is that it would easily freeze to itself and would double over itself. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Senior Member Username: Billb Post Number: 668 Registered: 02-2002 |
Garrett, - yep I heard that - sorry you couldn't make it to SCC this time. I haven't had the freezing problem - usually if mine does it is just the first layer. It shouldn't double back if it is tensioned tightly on the drum - at least in my experience. If it is tightly wound, then there is very little place for water to get in and freeze. Jaime - i was typing while you must have been posting - my comment doesn't make sense after yours I don't have mine handy, but that 7" doesn't sound right - I'll have to check it again at home - the 10" c-to-c on the bolt holes is right though. Bill | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 564 Registered: 02-2002 |
Bill, the guy from Spider measured it as we spoke. it will be interesting to see though if they are all the same. Jaime | ||
| Eric N (Grnrvr) Senior Member Username: Grnrvr Post Number: 1247 Registered: 02-2002 |
Bill, let me know if it fits.. It's my understanding that the bolt holes on the spidertrax fairlead don't match up with the bolt holes on the winch. I'm not sure about the opening. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Senior Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 97 Registered: 02-2003 |
you guys can just get one machined to fit the bolt pattern of the Warn or Ramsey or whosever roller fairlead you have... measure, make simple drawing and submit to a machine shop. rd | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 565 Registered: 02-2002 |
thinking thats what I'm going to do as there are many machine shops around due to Boeing and AA being here. At least a check on Spider's price anyhow. Jaime | ||
| Milan (Milan) Member Username: Milan Post Number: 142 Registered: 10-2002 |
As far as I know no fairlead matches the bolts on the winch as it does not bolt to the winch. If the Spidertrax fairlead is wider than Warn's hawse, then you should like it as I find the Warn's fairleads too narrow. I think it's so they work with smaller winches (M6000) with shorter drums. in one related discussion, it was mentioned that Warn's feairleads are narrow so ast to prevent the line from bunching up on the side and putting side load on the drum sides. I don't know about you guys but my line bunches up anyway and so wider slot in the fl would be welcome. | ||
| Max Thomason (Lrmax) Member Username: Lrmax Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2002 |
The Spidertrax is like 45~50 bucks. Seems kinda expensive, and if the roller fairlead was so bad, wouldn't it pinch the steel cable too? Also to add to the discussion: Wouldn't the line being under tension prevent it from getting pinched by the roller fairlead? From what I can see, the pull would have to be an off center pull (it seems like this is the only pull you can do, LOL) and the anchor point would have to be at an extreme up or down angle. Because of this, I would think that pinching the rope would be very unlikely. So, what do y'all think? Max T. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Senior Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 98 Registered: 02-2003 |
that $50 price is reasonable. the guy is trying to make a living. as for the angle yes, it would be unusually, but why risk it one of the down falls of the hawse style fairleads is that there is alot of friction where the roller fairlead rotates and helps it spool in alot easier. also ther is an increased heat factor. ideally someone will invent a roller fairlead that is engineered to prevent this. cable wont melt and is less likely to deformate into the corner of the rollers and it just more abrasion resistant. rd | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2002 |
The spacing for the RE is somewhere around 10 1/8th I believe.... And OH BOY are those little toys ugly.... Would something like this be better ? http://www.expeditionexchange.com/rubicon/DSC005156.jpg A nice roller bearing , stainless fairlead that is integrated and overlaps a little better so that shit cant get jammed in the corners. No bolt spacing to worry about.... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Eric N (Grnrvr) Senior Member Username: Grnrvr Post Number: 1248 Registered: 02-2002 |
Yes, Kyle it would if it won't f up my master pull line by getting pinched in the corner. Milan, the RE12000 mounts by bolting to the front and back not to the bottom of the mount on the bumper. The front bolts run through the fairlead, through the bumper, and then into the winch. The way that the winch sits you need to have the fairlead bolt holes line up with the inner mounting holes on the front of the winch. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Senior Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 99 Registered: 02-2003 |
geee, kyle... where did you buy that at?? rd | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 57 Registered: 11-2002 |
CVS sells em Rob.... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Milan (Milan) Member Username: Milan Post Number: 144 Registered: 10-2002 |
Eric, I'm sorry. I noticed you wrote RE12000 not M1200 which is what I was thinking when I posted. I was just too lazy to correct myself. Either way, I have not seen many fairleads match any winch bolt pattern even if the winch mounts to the front of the plate. Mind you we hardly ever see REs here. I think even Superwinch hawse fairlead does not match the bolt pattern unless it's roller one on a Husky winch and I only saw one in the store once, not a single truck with it. | ||
| Eric N (Grnrvr) Senior Member Username: Grnrvr Post Number: 1251 Registered: 02-2002 |
On the RE they really have to match up or your fairlead isn't going to be atached very well.. I'll see if I can get you a picture and post it later.. | ||
| Eric N (Grnrvr) Senior Member Username: Grnrvr Post Number: 1252 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ya, I bet CVS sells them right between the enemas and asprin.. | ||
| Milan (Milan) Member Username: Milan Post Number: 147 Registered: 10-2002 |
Eric, Do Ramsey fairleads match the RE drum width better than say the PRO winches or Warn fl and their winches? The widest fls I've seen were Superwinch and they seemed to match Warn's drums as well as Superwinch. Now the bolt pattern was off and did not match either's winch bolt pattern but that's beside the point other than you could not easily swap them. | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 159 Registered: 03-2002 |
are you missing a bolt on the drivers side recovery point, kyle? | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2002 |
More then that Take a good look at that pic and tell me what the issue is there... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 1974 Registered: 04-2002 |
Well the fairlead is pretty far off-center, is that what you are getting at?? | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 59 Registered: 11-2002 |
No , you would have to know something about an RE to know. Keep in mind that I have 150' of cable on that one.... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2002 |
I drill most over the counter fairleads that I install here. They just fit better. They will go on right out of the box but its a pain in the ass.. Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 1975 Registered: 04-2002 |
150' of cable, must be nice (check your mail BTW) | ||
| Eric N (Grnrvr) Senior Member Username: Grnrvr Post Number: 1253 Registered: 02-2002 |
Kyle, looks like you had a bolt head get ripped off and left the bolt stuck in the winch.. Can you drill it out? Or did you do that sa a safty (won't get stolen) feature? Milan, I really don't know cause I have never taken other fairleads to see what the difference would be. The one that came with the wich didn't line up right either so it had to have the holes re-drilled a bit as it was. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 62 Registered: 11-2002 |
LOL , actually one of the winch mounting bolts interfered with it so last minute I said the hell with it and it rode like that. Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Member Username: Ron Post Number: 102 Registered: 04-2001 |
Warn is 10in SW is 11in (I think REs are also 11in) so if you buy a fairlead you need to get the right one. Spidertrax and rockbuggysupply (who make the composite ones) I have only seen 10in but that does not mean they don't make them. Ron PS Alyssa's husky has the roller fairlead Milan | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 161 Registered: 03-2002 |
well, kyle...grasshopper is not ready to snatch the stone yet...what am i missing about the setup (aside from the one recovery bolt...) i have a few ideas, but i also abide by the advice that "it is better to be quiet and let people think you are a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt." so i ask, cap in hand, what else am i looking for? mike | ||
| Keith Kreutzer (Revor) Member Username: Revor Post Number: 148 Registered: 11-2002 |
Another source for aluminum hawse type fairleads. Send me the dimensions you would like.. I can make you a nice one... | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Senior Member Username: Billb Post Number: 673 Registered: 02-2002 |
Max - I'm the poster child for pinching a synthetic rope in a roller fairlead - extreme up and side angle and the rope will pinch and break. Problem is that the synthetic gets smaller in diameter as you tension it - small enough to get pinched. Wire rope does not do this. Eric - I know the Spidertrax does not fit the Ramsey front mount pattern, but I'll probably weld on some studs to the bumper to mount the fairlead - that way it is indepenedent of the winch and I can place it were I want it in relation to the drum. Bill | ||
| Max Thomason (Lrmax) Member Username: Lrmax Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2002 |
Bill, What part of the roller fairlead do you get yours caught on? I assume the two rear horizontal rollers do not provide any problems. Does the line migrate up or down on the front vertical rollers and get caught there? I'm sorry, but basically I'm asking how do you do it? I am currently not convinced that the catching and breaking of the roller fairlead is a real threat but if you could explain your experience, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Max T. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Senior Member Username: Billb Post Number: 674 Registered: 02-2002 |
Winch line was pulling in lower-right corner of roller fairlead. Tension made cable diameter smaller and then nylon bushings in fairlead softened/deflected causing winch line to pull between bottom edge of vertical roller and fairlead bracket. Line then caught and snapped - truck dropped about 8 ft straight backwards - incline was probably 65-70 deg. Bill | ||
| Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Senior Member Username: Gregdavis Post Number: 686 Registered: 08-2002 |
Max, Bill's not the first to experience this. I've never seen it happen, but his is about the 3rd or 4th incident that I've heard of. If you have enough cash to spring for the synthetic, then splurge the extra additional $50 and not have to worry about it. Besides, depending on your bumper design, getting rid of the roller may help your approach angle. I know it helped me. | ||
| Max Thomason (Lrmax) Member Username: Lrmax Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well, I can understand now how it could happen. Thanks for the enlightenment. Greg, right now I am trying to save up for a "new" hardtop for the truck so I'm trying to reduce costs anywhere I can (of course I cannot screw myself out of safety or anything like that). I know your right, I just have to convince myself you are right. BTW, I do have sitting here 100 feet of synthetic winch line. I just gotta find about 50~75 of extension line to go with it. Of course, that costs $$$$ and everywhere I've looked, it is going to cost the out da wazo to get it (all I want is a stupid 50 foot rope with no eyes or anything in it!!!). Wow I am cheap. Max T. Stupid nice stuff costs stupid money..... |
