| Author | Message | ||
     Narinder Pal (Narinder) New Member Username: Narinder Post Number: 5 Registered: 03-2003 |
I have a 1997 Disco. I had a problem with the oil pressure light blinking on and off a while ago. I flushed the motor, changed the oil to 5w30 for colder climates, and added a friction treatment. The oil pressure light stays on for about a minute now on startup on very cold mornings (shorter on warmer days) but stays off after the disco warms up. Now I notice that on startup and expecially on cold mornings I can hear the familiar tick of the lifters for abot 5-10 minutes after which they quiet significantly. The tick is there after the oil pressure light goes out. Are Disco's known for this? | ||
| Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Senior Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 515 Registered: 02-2002 |
Narinder, Yes, they have been known to have valve issues. But in your case, since it goes out after a couple of minutes, it could be an exhaust leak. Sometimes, due to off-road use, the bolts in the exhaust manifold are known to get loose. In your case, if it is indeed an exhaust leak, your gaskets are probably the culprit for the ticking since when you get warmed up, the gasket expands and reseals. Check the gaskets between engine block and exhaust manifold, also underneath where the manifold bolts to the cats. Goodluck! Glenn | ||
| Narinder Pal (Narinder) New Member Username: Narinder Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2003 |
Thanks for the info. would it be safe to assume as long as my oil pressure is okay and I change my oil and filter regularly that I shouldn't concern myself with the morning "tick"? I will check the gasket, I will be relieved if that's the noise. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 124 Registered: 11-2002 |
Drop pan , check for sludge in the screen. Also check the rods and mains. your issues lies with one of them Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Member Username: Ron Post Number: 140 Registered: 04-2001 |
I think Kyle is right. Could also be pump wear. Have you owned it for a while? If they are neglected they sludge up and cause all sorts of bad things. Ticking + Oil light = not a good sign Ron | ||
| todd slater (Toddslater) Member Username: Toddslater Post Number: 247 Registered: 08-2002 |
Main and rod bearings do not "tick"...it is a very pronounced knock like someone is hammering on your block. It does not go away and your oil light will not go out. What type of friction treatment do you add to you motor ? Ticking in the top end could be lifters or worn rockers. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Member Username: Ron Post Number: 142 Registered: 04-2001 |
No but when your bearings are worn the oil pressure drops and causes top end noise. Ron | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 125 Registered: 11-2002 |
Todd , shutup....... (was that better Ron?) Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| todd slater (Toddslater) Member Username: Toddslater Post Number: 250 Registered: 08-2002 |
Ron, True, when the bearings are worn you will get top end noise due to low pressure/oil starvation up top. However, this condition typically doesn't go away after a 5 to 10 min warm up that Narinder described. That ticking going away after warm up is typical lifter issue but could be slop in the valve train caused by the rocker issue (see recall info). The question for Narinder was what "friction additive" did he put in ? If something that typically has the consistecy of 90 weight...then the 5w30 he put in is now like Kyles head "thick" and may actually cause ticking until the stuff warms up and flows. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 126 Registered: 11-2002 |
Todd , he has an oil light staying on. That has jack to do with lifters . The lifter noise is secondary to another issue. Which is , sludge in the pickup or bad bearings.... My guess is he has a little of both going on... Sludge in the pickup put some hurt on the bearings. Yes my head is thick but that has nothing to do with you being wrong here.. Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Narinder Pal (Narinder) New Member Username: Narinder Post Number: 8 Registered: 03-2003 |
The friction treatment I used was recommended by another land rover owner, and is very popular here... i forget it's name but I can tell you that it was very thick ... it took me over five minutes to empty the quart into the motor. The oil light only stays on for a minute at the most on initial startup ... especially when it is very cold (-20oC) or been sitting for a number of days. Once warm the oil light goes out immediately. How complex it is to replace your main/rod bearings?... is it a DIY job? Thanks for all the input... it is an eye opening experience. | ||
| todd slater (Toddslater) Senior Member Username: Toddslater Post Number: 251 Registered: 08-2002 |
Kyle, Take a good long read at how Narinder describes the idiot light duration. One minute is not long if you've dumped STP,CD2 or some other thick goo in their...especially at the cold temps he is talking about. Narinder, My .02 is fire up your truck till warm...drain out all the oil/goo thats in there...filter too and refill with the 5w30. Also, if there is any wear in the rocker train...at those cold temps it will be magnified. As I recall, you stated that it quiets down after the engine warms up. Get the goo out and then re-evalute. Kyle and Ron may disagree with my thoughts and I would certainly agree you may end up in the bottom end, but if it were me, I'd rule out the top end possibilities first and then move down to the point of no return. | ||
| Brad Russell (Bradnc) Member Username: Bradnc Post Number: 162 Registered: 03-2002 |
This is a familiar problem in some other engines, most notibly Isuzu. The hydraulic lifters are starved for oil, usually due to clogged pores. So when the lifter doesn't fill with oil it doesn't have pressure and you hear the metal hitting metal. I'm not too familiar with the cam shafts on discos but on Isuzus they had small slits that clogged up. The noise would be intermitant because oil sometimes can and other times can't get into the lifters. The most notible varialbe that would cause it would be temperature, which is why the light would go off after a few minutes. As for fixing the problem, I believe there is a product that reduces gooed oil buildup that starts with a C and works very well. That should quiet them down somewhat. Also, from now on use Synthetic Oil only to prevent further problems. It costs more but will save money in the long run. As long as you hear that clicking the cam shafts aren't being lubricated and are therefore wearing. You'd see if you took the upper half of the engine apart. Brad | ||
| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2002 |
I'm with the low oil pressure argument. A minute is way too long for the oil light to go off. 15 seconds maybe. My understanding is it is only lit while oil pressure is < 4 psi. My oil light goes off immediately on startup - even when cold. If I use a thicker oil (15w-50), I sometimes get lifter noise briefly on cold mornings. Sounds like clogged screen assuming miles are under 90K-100K. Drop the pan and clean/replace the pickup screen and scrape out pan. Check a main and rod bearing for at least visible (you can see the copper) wear while you're in there. How many miles on the engine? | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 127 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well , additives are bullshit. They are meant to cover up for things that are wrong. An additive never fixed a god damned thing. Lets get a little bet going here Todd , and the rest of the additive boys ofcourse... You know , its not like I havnt seen the bottom end of a disco motor more times then I would have liked.... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Narinder Pal (Narinder) New Member Username: Narinder Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2003 |
my disco has 118,000 miles..mostly highway commute. It was serviced by the dealer regularly and I got the records when I purchased the beast. I have the block heater plugged in and plan to drive it tomorrow.... it has been sitting since this problem started. It has warmed up considerably here and with the block heater I hope the oil light stays ona few seconds tomorrow on startup ... if so I believe the likely cause is sludge. I plan to drop the pan in the next week.. I'll keep you all informed once I solve this problem once and for all. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 128 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well dont go informing us till the odds on this bet get just right..  Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| todd slater (Toddslater) Senior Member Username: Toddslater Post Number: 252 Registered: 08-2002 |
Kyle, You must be cornfused...nowhere in any post have I endorsed the use of additives... | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 129 Registered: 11-2002 |
ok , so we can get a little side bet on the guys troubles...lol Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Blue (Bluegill) Senior Member Username: Bluegill Post Number: 2112 Registered: 02-2002 |
you mean this bag of xtreme specially modified portland cement that I just dumped into my oilpan is bullshit? The guy at the local pep boys said it was guaranteed to stop my oil leaks, and it was only $19.99 so I figured, "What have I got to lose?" | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 564 Registered: 09-2002 |
you don't buy shit at pep boys nowadays, do you Blue? | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 114 Registered: 10-2002 |
LOL Narinder-Just think of this as a good excuse to put in a 4.6 liter! BTW-That quart of special engine additive didn't happen to say HENRY'S on the side did it? | ||
| Jason T. Barker (Speedminded) Member Username: Speedminded Post Number: 120 Registered: 10-2002 |
Before using the forbidden additives heat it. The once drying glue consistency is now a pourable liquid. Yes, it does need to be rather warm though....the whole point in the additives is to remain thick at all temperatures. But it does work. Just like putting the LR grease/oil in the swivel pin housing, what a pain! | ||
| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2002 |
Narinder, good luck. You will probably have to undo the sway bar mount points on the frame and rotate it down to give clearance for the pan to come out. You might want to go ahead and get a pan gasket and the little gasket that fits between the pickup tube flange and the block, since you'll have to remove it to clean it. Might want to just get a new pickup too (to skip the cleaning part if its really plugged) and return it if you don't need it. If the 4.0 uses RTV for the pan gasket, I have used Right Stuff with good results. It will stuck on there - I pushed the pan sideways with a bottle jack against the frame to break the seal. Make sure the pan is absolutely clean and free of debris. I washed mine out with soap and water and let air dry. Don't over torque the pan bolts. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 1911 Registered: 02-2002 |
My '99 DI used RTV from the factory on the pan... or rather, Hylosil, I used RTV when I put it back. I did a sloppy job, ended up re-doing it a couple of weeks later: TAKE THE TIME to do it right the first time. And yes, it was appalling how much sludge was on the pick-up screen. -L | ||
| Narinder Pal (Narinder) New Member Username: Narinder Post Number: 10 Registered: 03-2003 |
Thanks for all the help! I am going to the dealer on friday (the dealer is 300 miles away) and getting the pan gasket, oil pickup gasket and a new oil pick up to make sure I have everything that I will need to complete the repair. Just a few questions: What exactly is RTV? and what are the torque specifications for the oil pan bolts? Also, I was under the impression that the pan could be removed by letting the suspension hanging down and then sliding it out? Thanks! | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 1913 Registered: 02-2002 |
RTV is "gasket in a tube", as is Hylosil; instead of having a true gasket, you instead squeeze a tube putting the sticky material around the pan as a bead, like caulk. On mine, there was no gasket material for the oil pick-up tube. When you remove it, look inside the "flying saucer" part: there is a wire-mesh screen inside there, through which the oil is sucked up. It'll probably be severely clogged. I used PB Blaster to clean it, but any kind should work. You have to drop the back end of the sway-bar, 2 bolts on each side. Once it's lowered, the pan can be slid out. I don't have my manual w/ me at work to check the torque values.... anyone else? -L | ||
| Blue (Bluegill) Senior Member Username: Bluegill Post Number: 2117 Registered: 02-2002 |
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| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-2002 |
The torque specs for the pan on the 3.9 are 10 Nm on all bolts except the back 4, which are 19Nm. Hopefully someone with a 4.0 manual can confirm. With the RTV just a 2 mm bead. Don't use too much or it can ooze into the pan and clog the pickup. Wait at least an hour (read the RTV packaging) before filling with oil and starting the engine. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 1918 Registered: 02-2002 |
How odd.... In the manual, the listsing are conflicting. Under V8i, it lists "oil sump to cylinder block" at 13ft-lb (18Nm); and also "Sump to block" at 7.4ft-lb (10Nm). Under V8 4.0, it lists "Sump bolts" at 17ft-lb (23Nm); it also lists "pipe bracket to sump" at 13 ft-lb (18Nm). The reason I mention that last one: one of the pan's bolts isn't like the others, it has a spacer that slips in there, and a clamp that holds the oil-cooler-line slides in, sharing that bolt hole. Also, the manual specifies two different gasket-sealents: Hylomar gasket and jointing compound, and Hylosil RTV silicon compound. So, it really is just RTV. Ah! Different section, shows the pan's pattern, and states that it is 18Nm for the torque, and to use RTV Hylosil White sealant. (ie 13 ft-lb and RTV ) Hope that helps! -L | ||
| Mike Pelechaty (Tonga) New Member Username: Tonga Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2003 |
For what it's worth, I also had a ticking problem (no sensor light though) and I found that the previous owner wasn't using the proper oil filter, allowing the oil to drain out of the lifters. | ||
| Narinder Pal (Narinder) New Member Username: Narinder Post Number: 11 Registered: 03-2003 |
Thanks everyone for their help. I must say this is a great community. I will definatley report back when the repair is complete next week. | ||
| Bruce Potier (Bruce_flrc) New Member Username: Bruce_flrc Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2003 |
Here are 2 more tips. First, I used a can of Brake Cleaner to blast the oil pan clean. Just hold the pan over your oil catcher and spray away and within a few seconds your pan is cleaned out. Second, using the 'Right Stuff'as your gasket, place one bolt in front, one in back and run a little more bead to hold these in place. These will be your alignment bolts and once you get front and rear finger-started, you can press the pan all the way in place and compress the bead. This prevents the possible sideways-smudge of your bead when replacing the pan. Good Luck |
