| Author | Message | ||
     Christian Cartner (Cartner) Member Username: Cartner Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2002 |
So how hard is that to do? lots of work? whats the LRO spanner rating for this job? one of mine is leaking....Also, how much should I pay for the seals? Anyone give me a play by play for how to do this and I'd really appreciate it. | ||
| Fred Phillips (Dad4ever) New Member Username: Dad4ever Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2003 |
I did this last weekend. Not a hard job if you have the workshop manual and have done other bearing and seal replacement jobs but plan on quite a few hours to do the job. I did the passenger side about a month ago and probably spent 10 to 12 hours total but I am anal when it comes to things like cleaning and retapping threaded holes, etc. I had considerable pitting of the swivel ball and cleaned it up with a carbide bit in a Dremel tool and then filled the pits with JB Weld. When fully cured (overnight) I sanded the JB smooth. The hardest part was removing the needle bearing in the stub axle so that I could replace the seal. I did not have the correct puller so I had to invent something. I got a seal kit from Atlantic British that had all of the seals and gaskets that I needed. I used cv joint grease rather than the gear oil when I reassembled the unit. I did the drivers side last weekend and probably spent about 8 hours. I would be glad to answer any questions. My wheel bearings and swivel ball bearings were good so I just cleaned and repacked them. I had to remove a .005" shim from the swivel pin to get the proper preload on the swivel bearings. BTW I have a 94 Discovery with 126K. I have owned it for about a year and have most of the issues sorted out. It has never been offroad and the cv joints were in decent condition (just slightly more axial play than specified). | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Senior Member Username: Billb Post Number: 708 Registered: 02-2002 |
Christian - if you are just replacing the swivel seal - you don't really have to get into any of the stuff Fred did. You can just remove the brake caliper and then unbolt the entire swivel housing from the axle casing (7 bolts) - then remove seal retainer and old seal from the backside and refit in reverse order. Don't forget to refill the swivel. This should only take you about 2 hours max. Bill | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1158 Registered: 02-2002 |
Bill: It's easy! If you can do the CVs and the swivel ball, you can handle this. Due to some cranial/rectal inversion, I neglected to look at the swivel ball on the floor of the shop. I will TRY HARDER this evening to take a look and maybe some pics. Peace, Paul | ||
| Christian Cartner (Cartner) Member Username: Cartner Post Number: 51 Registered: 10-2002 |
Whew. I was getting concerned...yeah, I wasn't sure if I was going to have to disassemble the entire front end to get to the things...but it seems that it should be easy enough...the left hand side one is oozing grease/90wt. so I assume it should be time to redo the seals. I think they are the original seals as well, Thanks Paul. | ||
| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2002 |
I've done the remove the whole assembly method. Is easy-ish, but the hub assembly is heavy and getting it back in while aligning the axle is tough. I got some wood blocks that fit exactly under the hub so that I could slide it in with the assembly supported by the blocks. Change the axle seal too while you have the hub off. Make sure you have a longish 8 point closed wrench to get the (12 mm?) swivel bolts off. Wear gloves when gripping the wrench as those suckers are on there tight. On reassembly, tighten till the bolts finally stop. You'll have to really pull on the wrench. | ||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 430 Registered: 07-2002 |
OK, if there is a minor leak, can I put the LR Grease in and expect it to stop - and even then, is that an OK thing to do knowing that there is a leak - what about water ingress? My swivel balls seem to be nearly perfect, no pits. But there is a small leak from somewhere. | ||
| Christian Cartner (Cartner) Member Username: Cartner Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2002 |
yeah, mine are leaking oil, but the balls are like new...I figured it would be a bitch to get those assmbly bolts off....we'll see how it goes..have to order the seals first though. | ||
| Christian Cartner (Cartner) Member Username: Cartner Post Number: 54 Registered: 10-2002 |
I just found out about Terri Ann Wakeman's swivel seal replacement technique....interesting, anyone tried this? http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman/LR/#repair I mean, the logic makes sense, and as long as pressure is applied or silicone used, the seal should be fine, right? What do you all think? | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Senior Member Username: Billb Post Number: 711 Registered: 02-2002 |
Sure - you can do it, but why do a job half-assed? That's not the way an oil seal was designed to work IMO. Sorry - not trying to sound harsh, but cutting a seal to install it isn't the brightest, but it is quick! Bill | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1159 Registered: 02-2002 |
I only suggest the cut-the-seal method when one either has no time or the weather is inclement. One can do this task without complete disassembly, however, if one does not have the time, it can be done by pulling the swivel intact without disturbing the CV joint, but it is heavy and can be difficult to align. The bolts that attach the swivel housing to the axle are 12-point, 14 m/m. It is extremely difficult to use a socket to remove these bolts and many have advocated using a box-end wrench to bust them loose (they will be TIGHT) and then using a ratcheting box wrench to run them off. If you have the tools and the time, it is advisable to chase all of the threads to remove traces of thread-locking compound to facilitate reassembly and reduce the likelihood of thread damage. You might check the archives as I wrote up a pretty involved and lengthy procedure on swivel ball renewal and CV joint replacement. Perhaps the narrative could be put in Tech? Peace, Paul | ||
| Bill Howell (Billh13) New Member Username: Billh13 Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2003 |
Anybody got some pics. This will be the first time I have undertaken a big job on my disco. If they are barely leaking do I need to replace them? | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) New Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 19 Registered: 03-2003 |
Just to throw in my .02 cents here....when removing the entire swivel housing by removing the 12 point bolts, use a ratcheting wrench like the ones made by Gearworks. These are found in most stores like Sears, Napa, Autozone, etc. These are very low profile wrenches as compared to the ones I used to have from Craftsman. This alone will be a life saver. However, tearing apart the whole assembly is a good idea if you want to know what's inside & you have the time. Just in case you bust a swivel out in the field, you'll know what to expect and be more efficient in repairing it. | ||
| Blue (Bluegill) Senior Member Username: Bluegill Post Number: 2113 Registered: 02-2002 |
Cut the seal to install? You could also cut a condom lengthwise to install, but would you really want to? | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 38 Registered: 03-2002 |
Ha! It would have to be a long cut. I don't have time for all that cutting. (sorry) | ||
| Lawrence Tilly (L_tilly) Member Username: L_tilly Post Number: 106 Registered: 02-2002 |
I have the full seal replacement kit and was originally just waiting for some warmer weather to do this job. The only thing that has me actually worried is the concept of setting the preload. I have read different suggestions on this but I really haven't "gotten it" too well (although part of that may be because I've never understood what the preload is). That issue alone is enough to make me want to put this off and just keep up on adding fluid every couple weeks.  -Lawrence | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1164 Registered: 02-2002 |
Lawrence: Don't be frightened with the pre-load. Tighten the bearings up until they won't turn, back off 1/4 turn (well, just enought so they smoothly turn). I've used the dial indicator method specified in the manual and quite commonly, I find that there is insufficient adjustment to tighten the bearings down to the point where they won't turn at all. I know folks who don't even bother to set end-float on brand new CVs! Peace, Paul | ||
| Brian Thaxton (Bthaxton) New Member Username: Bthaxton Post Number: 14 Registered: 02-2003 |
Lawrence, if you are taking about the "swivel" preload, there are many ways to set it, but the best method I have seen is to reassemble everything, drive the vehicle, check for the "shimmies", then remove the one thinnest shim at a time until the steering stabilizes. Simplistic, but it works unless you have the proper tools. | ||
| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2002 |
The best way to set swivel preload I think is to put the original shims back in after doing the rebuild and torque to specs, then use a fish scale on the steering ball joint. There should be enough drag to read about 12 lbs constant load. It should be too light at first. Keep taking out shims until it drags to the right amount. Wheel bearings - you can torque the hub nut to 60Nm, spin hub, loosen nut and retorque to 10Nm while spinning. (You are aiming for the tight point just past where the hub play is taken out by wiggling it with your hands at the 12 and 6 o clock positions). Or this works :http://www.spanishtrailrovers.com/Tech/Maintain/Wheel_Bearing_Replacement/wheel_ bearing_replacement.html. |
