| Author | Message | ||
     David Gage (Davidg) Member Username: Davidg Post Number: 131 Registered: 02-2002 |
The long awaited for photos http://www.thatchedroofgarage.com/Discorollcage.htm David | ||
| Chris Marcel (Gumarcel) Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 207 Registered: 11-2002 |
Nice, i like it, looks awsome!!!! Marcel | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 634 Registered: 09-2002 |
Very cool. Anyone tried an external cage yet? | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 110 Registered: 02-2003 |
bad ass. does that make for a less "comfortable" cabin? | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 1998 Registered: 02-2002 |
I was wondering when those were going to make their appearance, lol..... It's not too bad in there w/ it, not as bad as I expected.... I've told Jeff to keep a tally of how many times he bumps his head on the bar over the door, but, I don't know if he will or not... Even in the back seat, it wasn't too bad, even with the diagonal in there. On the passenger side it was in the way of the feet a little, on the driver's side my only concern would be a tall person slamming forward too far if they didn't have a seatbelt on.... but, it's not bad, though, not bad at all.... Uwharrie, have a look at it there (assuming Jeff makes it)...  -L | ||
| Blake Luse (Muddyrover) Senior Member Username: Muddyrover Post Number: 800 Registered: 02-2002 |
that is awesome any pricing on it yet? | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 318 Registered: 08-2002 |
Its nice no doubt, and I can understand that it keeps the car from colapsing, but still have a silly question. Under what circumstances would this be needed? Certainly not a minor roll over huh? | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) New Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 32 Registered: 02-2003 |
I love the SD cage, but its cost is prohibative (to me in the Middle East at least!). I've decised to construct my own cage. I'll be using the talents of several engineers, so I hope it'll be good. I'll post up AUTOCAD pics before I start implementing... | ||
| David Gage (Davidg) Member Username: Davidg Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2002 |
The rear seat room is a little compromised on the right side due to the diagonal, however it is removable. Getting in and out will take a little re-training to get used to the slightly narrowed door openings. Brian, you are correct, in a vehicle that meets NHTSA roll over tests the roll cage seems redundant, but hey...chicks dig it.... David | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2004 Registered: 02-2002 |
lol.... I didn't think it was that noticable, the difference in getting in and out of it with the cage there.... but, time will tell what it's like over the long haul. Now, to convince the wife that she needs one too, with a bolt-through-roof roof rack, too... lol, ain't ever gonna happen! lol.... -L | ||
| Pete Stefano (Pete_s) New Member Username: Pete_s Post Number: 27 Registered: 02-2003 |
I like that a lot, they should have one for the D2. But one question though, don't D1s and D2s already have a roll cage in between the frame and body? I mean its probably not as heavy duty as that but I thought Disco had one. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 235 Registered: 11-2002 |
there is a salvage yard near me that has a number of rolled Disco's most from what it looks like have had relitivly high speed roll overs. all seam to have very similar damage. the A pillar on the impact point gives way creating a straight line from the front edge of the hood to the top of the B pillar. none have had much damage behind the B Pillar even when the outer body shows deffinite signs that it had gone all the way over. I would say a single loop at the dash would be all that really would be needed. most off-road rolls are very slow rolls in precarious spots. living with that cage looks like a lot of compromise...IMHO....but peace of mind if you are climbing lions back with the family in the car might be good for others. MM | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1263 Registered: 02-2002 |
Thom: In one of the clubs to which I belong, we have had three rollovers in the past year (on-road). In all three cases, the driver got out and provided first aid to the vehicle that hit the Disco. I have seen numerous photos of off-road rolls and the damage has been consistent with your comments as they seem to come out almost unscathed with what appears to be only cosmetic damage. Hope to be in your neck of the woods (UP) for Easter. Maybe we can hook up. Peace, Paul | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 321 Registered: 08-2002 |
What about an external cage. Chicks are bound to really dig that. | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 209 Registered: 10-2002 |
I agree. since aerodynamics aren't a factor on the drag-chute-disco, I would guess that the external cage might be a better solution for some. In those slow, off-road rolls it might save the paint too. I think there's a pic of a exo-cage disco submerged in a river in east asia somewhere. | ||
| David Gage (Davidg) Member Username: Davidg Post Number: 133 Registered: 02-2002 |
I don't know of anybody that produces an external cage for the DIsco on a commercial basis. I would be intrested to see how it mounts on the low points. I would think that it would have to "roll" under the body to the chassis or some how penitrate the skin to get to the floor. Jack, I remember the picture you refer to and you can only see a corner of it... David. | ||
| Daniel Covaciu (Danielcovaciu) Member Username: Danielcovaciu Post Number: 98 Registered: 10-2002 |
I also have seen several rolled disco's. One of the reasons I bought mine is because of how well they hold the shape in a rollover. Other than all the body panels bending and glass breaking the ones I've seen were all basiclly driveable. And these were high speed rolls, not low speend off-road situations. But..... muskyman is right. If I were going to roll off lions back I would want the cage in my car. For most other situations, I dont think its needed. Dan | ||
| David Gage (Davidg) Member Username: Davidg Post Number: 134 Registered: 02-2002 |
"you are correct, in a vehicle that meets NHTSA roll over tests the roll cage seems redundant, but hey...chicks dig it...." Even I agree with you guys, but Biiiig CDI Factor... | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 639 Registered: 09-2002 |
I'm thinking that I might need th external roll cage at some point. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Member Username: Ron Post Number: 231 Registered: 04-2001 |
Betaweld at one point made a DI exocage If the disco rolls it gets a series rover body. Ron | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2012 Registered: 02-2002 |
Isn't Bettaweld gone now? The owner was in an accident, if I remember right, closed up shop.... -L | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 607 Registered: 02-2002 |
Is it just me or does anyone else here think that cage isn't gonna do fuck all in a bad crash? I mean the tubing looks very thin, and there's only one diagonal, and that's optional too. Structurally that's gonna colapse sideways, unless you go and weld in few more big diagonal cross pieces, both side to side and fore / aft, especially around the driver's area. And wouldn't something like 4" steel tubing, all welded, be more realistic? Dean | ||
| zane pukajlo (Zane) New Member Username: Zane Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2003 |
Isn't this the same cage used in CT Discovery's? If it is then it should hold up real well to roll overs. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2016 Registered: 02-2002 |
a) The tubing isn't that thin... b) The Disco, unlike a Series, is made to provide a level of roll-over protection anyway c) Instead of going overkill on cross-supports, this design helps to support the factory's structure in case of a rollover d) 4" tubing would make the interior impossible to use, it'd eat up too much space, hard to get in and out of, etc., and not help that much more e) Odds are, you'll never really USE it, it's just sex-factor IMHO, FWIW.... -L | ||
| David Gage (Davidg) Member Username: Davidg Post Number: 136 Registered: 02-2002 |
This cage is FIA approved. I have never seen 4" tube in NASCAR and a birdcage Maserati was made up with tube no bigger than 1", Lotus 7s are mde up with mostly 3/4" and the cage structure is 1.5". It's all about triangulation and attachment. The diagonal on the Disco cage prevents the main hoop behind the driver from collapsing sideways. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 328 Registered: 08-2002 |
I think that it is likely adequate considering the body is still there. It does look smaller than some standard roll cages (D90, Jeep), but 4" is huge and would not fit. Likely this is a compromise. I still really like the idea of an external cage. I betcha rockware could come up with something for us brian. Better do it now vs later... case in point your sliders. Daniel: Would you make a conscious decision to roll over lions back? This is one obstacle that I wonder about. Yes it is cool, yes it is good photo-op, but when one small failure or mistake on the driver can get you killed? Dunno if I would do it or not. And I have seen what the result of rolling off lionsback is to a fullsize vehicle. Not pretty. | ||
| Greg Bright (Gregd2) Member Username: Gregd2 Post Number: 46 Registered: 06-2002 |
I think it looks cool, but I don't see how strong it could be bolted to the floor of the vehicle with rivnuts. Run it through the floor and weld it to the frame, then weld up all those bolt together joints. Then it might be close to the ones used in camel trophy. Greg 96 Disco XD 99 D2 | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 608 Registered: 02-2002 |
Well Leslie I think you got it summed up in (e). For me, the only time I'm gonna want a roll cage is going at 80 mph down the highway, with some jerk pulling out in front of me and sending me crashing down the road. That's what a roll cage is for. I've seen discos at wreckers yards, with the roof completely squashed flat after flipping at highway speeds. No doubt at all the occupants were killed outright. With all the weight of a disco behind you, the roof support up front is just useless, and that cage ain't gonna help one iota. But if you're talking about an off-road roll over, at 1 mph, then fine, be happy with your new safety cage. But I know people who have rolled over, multiple times off road, and yes there are dents and broken windows, but the disco holds up damn well. Of course, if you're talking about rolling off a cliff, or lions back, you're fucked anyway. A few realy meaty supports on that cage, from behind your seat on the floor, up to the front corner of the windscreen, and a thicker front cross member, would really make a difference imho. Dean | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2017 Registered: 02-2002 |
lol.... Greg, it IS the one used in the CT..... Unlike the Series bar that goes to the frame, because of the better initial strength of the Disco, SD chose not to design it to go to the frame. FWIW.... -L | ||
| Greg Bright (Gregd2) Member Username: Gregd2 Post Number: 47 Registered: 06-2002 |
I realize it's the one from Safety Devices, but just two nights ago I was reading an old copy of LROI where they did a big write up of the Camel Trophy Discos and how to spot fake ones and it said the rack went through the roof to the roll cage and the roll cage went through the floor to the frame. Did I read that wrong? Even if I did, I seriously doubt that the camel discos' cages were rivnuted to the floor. If they weren't welded surely they had a backing plate on those bolts. (not just crappy rivnuts) If it were me in there, I wouldn't want to be rolling over hoping those rivnuts didn't pull through the floor. Just my .02 worth. Greg | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2018 Registered: 02-2002 |
You can order the roofrack and rollcage together and specify that you want the rack to bolt through the roof to the cage, which is how the CTs are. But, this is the same cage; Jeff already had an Adventure rack, so the one installed doesn't have the bolt-through-roof option. The mounts to the floor are not rivnuts; the holes were drilled, and bolts go through to plates on the other side; only the rear plates were rivnut-installed, as this was simpler than welding as the CTs were done... (I think I've got that right, David don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong). -L | ||
| David Gage (Davidg) Member Username: Davidg Post Number: 137 Registered: 02-2002 |
What I did was to use rivnuts on the back stays that are attached at the top of the rear door (5th door) This attachment is less critical and is actually a slip joint. The floor attachment is drilled, plated, and bolted. The roll cage on the CTs did in fact weld to the body mount outriggers, not the actual chassis rails. This cage is available, but not parctical on a street driven Disco. As I mentioned in a prevouse post, the cage is redundant. But it's cool. It is strong, RAC and FIA approved. How many of you guys know about Showroom stock racing? Ever inspect the bolt in cages that are IMSA/SCCA/HSR etc approved. This cage meets and exceeds some of those standards. | ||
| Greg Bright (Gregd2) Member Username: Gregd2 Post Number: 48 Registered: 06-2002 |
Leslie and David, Thanks for the clarification. I misunderstood your earlier posts, I thought all of the mounts were rivnutted. Your last description is much better detailed and sounds a lot stronger than previously depicted. I'm not doubting the cage isn't well designed in the size of materials used, I was just skeptical of how I thought it was mounted. Thanks for clearing it up. Also, I did not know the cages weren't frame mounted on the CT Discos. I'm going home tonight to see if that was a mis-print in LROI or if I read it wrong. Greg | ||
| Blue (Bluegill) Senior Member Username: Bluegill Post Number: 2218 Registered: 02-2002 |
You guys arguing strength, safety, tubing diameter, etc. are cracking me up! It's all about the Bling. Let me ask this: Where is the owner of the new caged-Disco going that he "needs" additional rollover protection? You should be arguing about tubing finish rather than strength (powdercoat colors, CAD plating, CHROME). But damn, it is cool, and it would serve a useful purpose for some. What you do with your money is your business - it's all good. Nice install, too, David. I'll put up a $50 wager that this cage will soon be up for sale due to the inevitable fact that the upward-trending "pain in the ass" curve will soon surpass the downward-trending "coolness factor" curve. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 329 Registered: 08-2002 |
Hmmm I wonder if we could design a plastic version finished in chrome? All the bling and none of the buck. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Senior Member Username: Billb Post Number: 736 Registered: 02-2002 |
LOL - at least it doesn't have fixed door diagonals or crosses - I've lived with those on the street in my younger foolish days - talk about a pain in the ass on a door slammer. The SD cage is a walk in the park compared to that Bill | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 207 Registered: 11-2002 |
Fucking door bars that need to come down between the shoulder and the elbow on the driver Bill. Ahh yes , what a pain in the ass. I would put them in last when building a cage in a car just so I didnt have to do the jungle gym act getting in and out to work on it. Dean , you are smoking some brit grade crack. The cage (as david said) is there to add more support. Would you like MORE or would you like less ? Apparently you havnt seen what a tube frame will take ... I am sure it will distort but its job is not to stay show room perfect. Its job is to save your ass.. Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Ricardo Palomino (Palomino) New Member Username: Palomino Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2002 |
I work as a Paramedic/Firefighter and I have been to alot of rollover accidents. One was a brand new 2002 Disco. A-pillars were crushed but the driver and passenger were o.k. The only person that was hurt was the passenger in the back that did not have on a seatbelt. Needless to say that most of the rollovers, no matter what what type vehicle, the passenger injuries are minimal when they have on seatbelts. The ones w/o seatbelts, well thats another story. Rico | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 611 Registered: 02-2002 |
And how confident are you, looking at that first picture, rolling over at 80 in your disco that you're gonna walk away? That's a structural support, not a roll cage. Dean "Blow you" | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 214 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well Dean , NHRA , IHRA and alot of other sanctioning bodies are pretty confident in roll cages. David there mentions a few more. But hell , who are they compared to the great Dean Brown... You related to Ron ? Also , how many cages you built or even been around ? How do the roofs get smashed like that Dean ? Well its from the vehicle leaving the ground and landing on the roof. Not from a perfect roll... Just say No Dean , just say No... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 215 Registered: 11-2002 |
Oh , by the way , I would be alot more confident with it then without it.... Make sense ? Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 612 Registered: 02-2002 |
Yes Kyle, of course you're right, of course that's gonna help in a roll. But how much, I'm not sure. I'm not in the slightest bit worried about off-road rolling, apart from my bank balance being hurt. But on highways, I know I'm just trusting my life on a front tire, or some prick in front of me, and that don't make me feel good. Even with David's cage. And yes I have seen a proper roll cage, in a MB550, and it looked nothng like that at all. It had really massive diagonal supports all round driver and passenger areas. But to be fair you had to climb in and out with some difficulty. Dean And as for your "british crack" comments LOL, of the people here who have met both Kyle and myself, which one of us is more likely to be on the stuff? LOL | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 216 Registered: 11-2002 |
All its supposed to do is Help Dean. Keep your ass from taking a dirt nap.... Yes , I would like to hear as well who thinks I am more likely to be on it.... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 240 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dean, If you dont think that cage would help you are very mistaken. in a street driven vehicle in a hign speed catosrophic rolling crash it would surely make a large difference. In fact in the above type of crash having it mounted the way it is would be better then having it frame mounted. In true catosrophic crashes the frame/chassis(large mass)of the vehicle can be disconnected from the body of the vehicle. this disconnecion can absorb huge amounts of energy...energy that if the frame was connected to an internal cage would be routed threw the passenger compartment. unlike race vehicles with street driven vehicles the idea is to keep the passenger compartment intact while dispersing the energy, if the vehicle is destroyed in the process so be it. now I still think this cage is overkill in a number of ways...but there is no doubt it would do what it is intended if there was a accident that brought it into play. Thom guess this makes me a brit crack head too | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 126 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Kyle you got much background in racing things?? O yeah Ford or Chevy?? | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 75 Registered: 01-2003 |
Ooh, I really like it. I'm a chick. I dig it. I especially like the cross piece. I'd like if you could get one going the other way, too. It might actually help keep puppy at bay. She just HAS to be in the front seat. That's why we have a multitude of dog guards... but I'd rather have her closer to me. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Member Username: Ron Post Number: 244 Registered: 04-2001 |
Dammit David, She has seen it! The concept of a structurally signifigent dog gaurd ohhhhhh. NO NO NO!!!! cheap bastard must prevail Ron | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 243 Registered: 11-2002 |
I'll bet it provides some serious missle protection as well as some roll over back up. any steel member in a straight line provides some real good protection.. I have another big dog coming soon so I guess I need to find a good used D1 dog guard. thom | ||
| Jason T. Barker (Speedminded) Member Username: Speedminded Post Number: 203 Registered: 10-2002 |
For the people who think the cage is not "stout" enough... Have you ever stood on an empty aluminum Coke can and it not crush or built a small bridge out of toothpicks and epoxy that would hold 40 lbs? ...The weakest part on the entire cage is the joints where the bars are attached to each other but everything works together to make an extremely strong structure. It appears that the cage would also assist in getting in and out of the rear seats considering how much of a pain it is anyways. Will it always restrict access to the glove box? (Is it possible the cage was installed too far towards the left?) How much does it weigh? | ||
| Jason T. Barker (Speedminded) Member Username: Speedminded Post Number: 207 Registered: 10-2002 |
Nevermind about the above question of restricting access to the glove box....I forgot it was designed for right hand drive models. | ||
| Peter Sharratt (Gummikuh) Member Username: Gummikuh Post Number: 41 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hi Jason If the glove box worries you, you can always go for the cage where the front legs go through the air vents, this will allow the glove box to open, and give slightly more leg room in the footwells. take a look at the Safety Devices website and you will see what I mean. A lot of the camel discoveries were left hand drive. Pete S | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2029 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jason, If you scroll and look at the photo (5th row up from the bottom, far right side), you can see the edge of the glovebox, where it was trimmed, so that it would open and close. What he did was trimmed it off to clear, then trimmed a little more, then epoxied the end of the trimmed piece back on, so that essentially ended up with a door that wasn't as wide as to begin with. Peter's right, that there is another version that comes down through the vents and then out through the bottom of the glovebox, but it will lose you two vents, one on each side, and require a bit more trimming of underdash plastic. -L | ||
| Jason T. Barker (Speedminded) Member Username: Speedminded Post Number: 209 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm still waiting on a response from Safety Devices on the total weight of the roll cage, the cost, and shipping. http://www.safetydevices.co.uk/oldsite/4x4/discovery.html Don't ask me why I'm interested in it...Maybe give her something to hold onto during those spontaneous excursions? | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2036 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jason, You may not want to hold your breath from SD themselves.... if you want something from SD for a 4x4 and are in North America, they're gonna send you to David..... Call David if you're interested.... (423)578-6887... or email is [email protected] FWIW... -L |
