| Author | Message | ||
     gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 1986 Registered: 10-2001 |
just put new plugs in my truck a few weeks back (autolites) and yesterday i noticed the truck running really rough. took a plug from the left bank of cylinders and it was busted. half the ceramic was chipped off and there was no gap any longer on the plugs. looks to have been hit by something. but what? TIA | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 1987 Registered: 10-2001 |
ok i think i see what happened. i left the collar/washer off on that plug and it was seated too low.....therefore allowing it to get hit when firing. this sound right? i hope so. funny thing is it did not run THAT bad. noticable for sure, but still cruised along at 75 today.  | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 737 Registered: 02-2002 |
ouch! i wonder what the top of the piston looks like now. mike w | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 212 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hmm , carbon.. Just leaving the washer off shouldnt have made it that much deeper. Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Member Username: Ron Post Number: 234 Registered: 04-2001 |
While you still have that warranty I would beat the piss out of the engine until it throws a rod or something drastic. Ron | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 1988 Registered: 10-2001 |
i pray every night Ron that it will happen. and i was hoping the rough engine yesterday was a prelude to something dramatic. but of course it was very anticlimatic. so is life. i pulled a few other plugs on the same bank kyle and they were not as carbon fouled. am running some BG 44K in the truck now. has helped in the past, but only temporarily. i know the truck is running rich and have just been putting off getting new O2 sensors. then again i think i have valve issues too. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 241 Registered: 11-2002 |
so ron how many times do you think you can recommend that before you and your wife get sent looking for new jobs? garret, stretched rod?...bad wristpin?...worn rod bearing? a motor dosent need to be completly dead to need warrenty work or complete replacement under warrenty. and comitting fraud will void your warrenty for sure. sorry to sound like a DAD here...but if you think LRNA dosent cruise this BB from time to time I think you could be short sited. good luck thom | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Senior Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 222 Registered: 02-2003 |
MAYBE YOU SMASHED BY ACCIDENT BERFORE YOU PUT IT IN HTERE? RD | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 69 Registered: 01-2003 |
How am *I* implicated in this at all? Don't drag me into this just because I'm married to the man. | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 1990 Registered: 10-2001 |
first off LRNA has nothing to do with my warranty. aftermarket. and yes they do need a dead motor in some instances to have a warranty claim processed. i have already dealt with them on the valve issue and low compression in a few cylinders. and rob i am always really careful about putting those plugs in. they don't touch anything but the threads when i lovingly place them in. and i think i would have noticed the rough running immediately. if it happens again soon we will know something bigger is up and my warranty will hopefully honor it. i will have my own garage soon and i think it will be a little easier to get claims processed. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 242 Registered: 11-2002 |
sorry alyssa....thats just how things work sometimes....I am not saying you did anything wrong , but guilt by association sometimes takes down innocent people and the knee jerk reactions of large corporations arent always fair. that said the kind of "advice" ron posted above is one reason the "anon" post option was a good thing. Thom | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 1991 Registered: 10-2001 |
this thread has nothing to do with LRNA. it has to do with my truck having an issue and me wanting to fix it. my warranty with an independant company has no bearing on ron's comment. if it were through LRNA i am sure Ron would have not commmented. | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 70 Registered: 01-2003 |
Thom, I think you are way off here. First off, neither Ron nor I are employed by LRNA. They have absolutely no authority to fire me or Ron or anyone else at a dealership. I am employed by my dealership, more specifically the Great Britains group. So please don't make judgment calls on who is "guilty" or what my company's decision would be. I really do take offense, as I did NOTHING wrong. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Senior Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 225 Registered: 02-2003 |
Garrett you butterfingers, i'm betting 10 to 1 you were changing plugs, had been drinking, and dropped and old plug on the ground smashing it. while on your alchol induced bender you picked the old plug that you had just dropped and procceed to screw it back into the hole. of course you don't remember because you capped the night off by huffing thinner you stumbled upon in the garage. just another addict like you trying to file a false claim just to feed the habit. goddamn the pusher man indeed. rd | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 1993 Registered: 10-2001 |
i never drink when i have a can of carb cleaner in my hand!! i initially was cleaning my stepper motor. but more accurately it would have been a passing PSU co-ed on her way home. she distracted me and the plug fell through the engine and on the ground. but then again you are down in Stiller Country and what gets you all out of sorts is a girl with a killer perm, black and gold jacket, '86 IROC and a 12 pack of IC Light cans. oh and piano bars with ugly, fat lesbians! | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Senior Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1419 Registered: 02-2002 |
Are you saying that Rob here is a Mullet Man? I mean after all, the '86 IROC is the offical car of the modern Mullet. Oh yeah, don't forget the required poster of Burt Reynolds over the shitter. Garrett, I guess you picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue, or is it downing anphetamines or was it drinking? | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Member Username: Ron Post Number: 243 Registered: 04-2001 |
Thom, Garretts warranty does not have anything to do with LR. Its aftermarket. If he had a LR warranty it would cover the valve job (at minimum) that his truck needs, no questions. This is the main downfall of almost all aftermarket warranties, they don't cover carbon fouling, and some don't even cover leaks. Did I say to commit fraud, no. I said drive it hard. If something is wrong it WILL fail and thus you will get covered. Motor issues do not get better. Here is Thom's quote: "a motor dosent need to be completly dead to need warrenty work or complete replacement under warrenty." I think you have a really unrealistic view of how most aftermarket warranty companies work. Some are good to ok, but most of them are doing everything possible to not pay for anything. Here is how it typically goes. Service writer call the warranty company. Says check engine light is on, multiple misfires, needs valves. Warranty company says customer needs to approve pulling heads ($$$) for inspection, if customer declines to pay to pull the heads no more engine related warranty claims will be accepted, ever. So now Mr. Customer is in a bind, pull the heads and potentially have to pay for a really big repair bill they can't afford or take a truck that is still driving and void their "warranty" on the engine. If they do approve pulling the heads, half the time the warranty will not cover the valves because they exclude carbon fouling or wear or because the customer can not find all the oil change reciepts or because they see oil sludge build up. So as far as how many times I can recommend to drive the vehicle hard and still keep my job . . . as many as I want! In many cases its the only way you will be able to get coverage under an extended warranty plan is to have a total failure. Ron And BTW my views are my own and do not have anything to do with rover or anyone else (especially my wife!) I have been on this board since pretty much the dawn of time and I plan to stick around. I can neither confirm no denign I work for rover or anyone else One opinion I can tell you is that very few (I can think of two Heritage and Western Diversified, the latter of which does not sell LR warranties anymore) warranty companies have a warranty as good as the one land rover sells. | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) New Member Username: Norm Post Number: 30 Registered: 02-2003 |
Maybe the plugs were defective -- or the ends too long. I had an NGK plug break in half while seating it with little pressure. | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2002 Registered: 10-2001 |
yeah. just weird that it ran fine for a few weeks and then one day the plug was mashed. poor thing never had a chance.  | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2015 Registered: 10-2001 |
happened again today. ugh. well i am going to do a compression test and see what is up with that cylinder. back a while ago i did this, but i don't remember what cylinder was really low. just need to confirm and see if that is the one that busted up the plug again. any other suggestions on what could be the cause? thanks | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 225 Registered: 11-2002 |
If its carbon the compression is gonna be higher...... Its in there taking up space... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2016 Registered: 10-2001 |
ok let me try and explain this a little better now that i know more now. i originally started up the truck and traveled 1/4 mile and it started running really rough (just like last time when i found the plug trashed) and it eventually stalled out. started back up and got it back to my place and let the truck sit the rest of the afternoon. just went out and checked the same plug that had broken last week. the plug looked fine. so i checked 5 of the other plugs that i could get to while it was still light out. they all looked fine. i decided to start the truck up before getting to the others and it ran fine. no rough idle or running. so kyle are you saying that excess pressure in the cylinder could cause this problem? would a compression test help explain anything? the truck has been throwing misfire codes the past few years off and on, but usually with a treatment of some BG44K they would be cleared. anything else i could try to and narrow this problem down. thanks- | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 226 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well , what I am saying is. If it has alot of build up on top of the piston (This would be strange , havnt seen it much on any makes) at some point it will get high enough to interfere with the plug when the piston comes to the top. Ron a fair amount of top end cleaner through it and see what ya get. Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2022 Registered: 10-2001 |
ran some sea foam through the throttle body today and drove it around a bit afterwards. just on my way home it starting running rough and at idle it sounds like a freaking diesel. just sounds bad. more of a knocking sound......not tapping. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 228 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hmm well thats not very descriptive..... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2023 Registered: 10-2001 |
well damn kyle what else can i say. i don't have time to pull the plugs and see what is up there. but it is running like it is missing really bad. and this knocking sound is new. sure i have had a slight tapping sound (like lifters) now and then, but this knocking sounds like it is something a bit more serious. maybe i will run the rest of that sea foam through in the morning, but i think i am just trying to slap a band-aid on a big problem that is trying to happen. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 229 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well if you got knocking then you got issue... Would be nice to hear it. Perhaps you will get your new engine now.. Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2026 Registered: 10-2001 |
that would be nice. maybe the Easter bunny will bring me one? | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2029 Registered: 10-2001 |
some more info for ya now. just went over to a friends (mechanic) garage and were listening to a few things. the loud tapping noise is coming from the same bank of cylinders where the first plug was smashed up. monday we are going to take a peek at the top of the cylinders and see what we find. couldn't this noise also be a bent valve? but could a bent valve bust up a plug? and second the louder knocking noise seems to be coming from the lower part of the engine. like the crankshaft. bearings? sounds like CV joint going bad. that kind of sound. but not always constant. you have to really get on the gas at idle or while driving to hear it. comes and goes though. we are going to pull the oil pan on monday too and see what we can find there as well, but it sounds like we need to tear a few things down before we will really know what is up. will post back on monday. thanks- ps: just to be ahead of the game where should i get the valves and bearings? are the valves that i would get the 'newer' style? dealer only items? | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 147 Registered: 10-2002 |
Garrett- If you've got a broken, stretched, or pulled rod stud or even just the rod nut fell in the pan then I'd be tempted to replace that one rod and piston as well as ALL rod bearings (since you're there anyway and who knows what damage has occurred to that piston/rod assembly). Check the crank for damage too (I know, if damaged, a real PITA to pull a crank while in the vehicle!). As to the proper valves,(and bent valves sound like a strong possibility) I don't know answer but I would think that the appropriate ones would be available from any of the usual Rover sources (AB, RN, Discount Rovers, etc.). Shouldn't all or most of this be covered by your aftermarket warranty? My $.02 | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2032 Registered: 10-2001 |
yeh i am hoping it will, but as Ron has stated it is not as easy as just telling them what has happened. i am hoping that there is enough damage for them to cover what needs to be covered. i will know more monday morning after we drop the oil pan and take the valve covers off. as well as running a compression test. thanks for the input. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 271 Registered: 04-2001 |
Garrett, It could be anything, you can't know without seeing it. Could be a dropped liner, rod bearing, wrist pin bearing, bent valve . . . etc. Feel free to call me on Monday if you need any engine info/parts info/estimate info. Email me and I will send you my number. Ron evilfij (at) yahoo.com PS the new valves are (to the best of my knowledge) dealer/genuine only and they are spendy. 4.0 short blocks are still cheap though. | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2033 Registered: 10-2001 |
thanks ron. i might do that. of course now that the truck has sat it is quiet as honda civic. i don't get it. but i am sure if i rag it out today for 5 min. it will start making lots of noise. not sure how the warranty company will want to proceed with this. guess it depends on what we find and what they are willing to do about it. many times on big items they will actually send someone out to check it out. i will post here and email you when i find out more tomorrow. thanks- |
