| Author | Message | ||
     John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2003 |
95 D1 (93K) Miles will not start. Here is my story... Went to work this morning-everything was fine. Temp hit 70+ here in Michigan, so at lunch, I took the beast to the car wash. I decided to hose down the engine compartment and get rid of some of the winter crud (I have done this many times in the past and have had NO issues). I went back to the office. I jump in the disco at 5:30 and drive home. Everything is still great. I decide to head out at 10:00pm to watch the hockey game at a friends place and it will not start. Can this be from the water earlier?!?!?! I can hear the fuel pump go on as I turn the ignition. I can also hear something that sounds like an electric motor as I turn the key-not turning over. PLUGS~10K miles ago, COIL/ROTOR/CAP and WIRES~5K miles ago. Any suggestions? Thank you very much in advance. JP | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2003 |
Still no go this morning. Anyone have any ideas???? Do yo think it could be water??? How can I test for spark??? Can a coil go bad after 8 months? Rotor or cap after 2 months? I do not think it is the fuel pump as I can hear it, but can it be the fuel filter? THank you very much. JP | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 65 Registered: 02-2003 |
I wonder if when spraying the engine you dislodged a small but important wire. work your way methodically through the engine bay and see if anything is loose | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 4 Registered: 04-2003 |
Here is the latest... I used a spray to help get rid of any H2O on the electrical components. I ordered a new dist and rotor to be safe. I replaced the plugs and found out I am getting no spark!!! What are the chances that my coil is bad after one year and 15K???? It still will not start. When I turn the key it does not even THINK about turning over. I hear something that sounds like an electrical motor running (alternator or starter????). I am working on checking all of the wires. Any other suggestions? I am a newbie mechanic and this has me quite perplexed. Thank you in advance for your help!!! | ||
| Tom Fioretti (Tom_in_md) New Member Username: Tom_in_md Post Number: 27 Registered: 02-2003 |
Simlar thing happend to my 96 except it died right in the car wash. Once also after a bad thunderstorm. I pulled open as many electrical connectors as I could find and tried to dry them out. Most appeared dry. I discovered that the plastic cover over the ECU was loose and was letting water flow on to the connector. I mistakenly left it loose when I replaced my antenna. Once I sealed the cover with RTV I had no further problems. This is one of those things that I'll never be sure, definitively, whether I fixed the problem or it just dried out over the couple days. I also posted to the board and at least one person suggested the crank position sensor as a potential problem but I never pursued that option. Good Luck ! P.S. The electrical motor running is probably your fuel pump - Good. | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 5 Registered: 04-2003 |
Thanks Tom. Where is the ECU and what is RTV? While I am at it, where is the crank position sensor? I have checked just about everything electrical I can get to. | ||
| Roland Kutasi (Disco1) Member Username: Disco1 Post Number: 56 Registered: 10-2002 |
Forget about checking the crank position sensor and change the coil with one from another car just to see if it's not the coil thats died. They do die suddenly without warning, even after only 8 months. | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2003 |
I will try the coil today. Thanks. | ||
| Bill Howell (Billh13) New Member Username: Billh13 Post Number: 12 Registered: 03-2003 |
Is it a big motor? Has your starter died? Sounds like the the motor is turning but not engaging. Bill | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 7 Registered: 04-2003 |
I cannot locate the sound, other than it is coming from the engine compartment as I have not had any assistance. Is a coil a coil? Will another work with my vehicle? Are there any suggestions for a coil I can pick up at a local store? If it is the starter that is bad, would have I still have spark? How difficult is it to diagnose and replace? Thank you all very much. | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2003 |
Also, how does the rotor come off for replacement? When I took the distributor off to check to see if H2O had entered I looked at the rotor and could not figure out how to replace. I hope it is not as difficult as it seems. I have a new cap and rotor on the way. Thank you. | ||
| Marlin Begay (M_begay8) New Member Username: M_begay8 Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2003 |
I also have a 95 D1 that won't start, I replace my cap and rotor. The cap wasn't to hard to replace, but the rotor was difficult to pull off. I think I move something when I pulled it off, but it use to start before something happen to it. | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 177 Registered: 02-2002 |
John, you say that the engine is not turing over. Is this correct? If the engine is not turing over, the distributor will not be turning, therefore no spark. Before you start replacing the coil, etc. I'd try to figure what is going on with the starter. It might be that the starter is spinning but not engaging the flywheel. It could also be that the starter is not grounding well. You might want to replace the negative battery cable. Have you checked the battery? I just checked my battery; it is right at 12.2 volts. If the battery is less than 12 volts it might be on the way out. | ||
| Tom Fioretti (Tom_in_md) New Member Username: Tom_in_md Post Number: 28 Registered: 02-2003 |
On my 96, the ECU (ECM) is attached to the passenger side of the engine bay, on the inside of the fender wall. Has a black plastic cover on it. RTV is a clear silicone adhesive. Any brand will do. I need to look in my manual to find the location of the sensor. Unfortunately I can't look until tonight. Sorry. | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 9 Registered: 04-2003 |
Mike, how do you check the starter to see if it is working?!?!?! Do you mean replace the entire neg cable, or just re-seat it on the battery? I really did not consider the battery... I will check. This forum is great because quite a few things that I have overlooked sound like good leads. Thanks. | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 178 Registered: 02-2002 |
John, My point is that if the engine is not even turning over, there is no need to look further at this point. If the engine is not turning over, it could be several factors including the starter itself, the battery, battery cables. You might want to install a new set of battery cables to make sure that the starter is getting the proper flow of electricity. Old, corroded cables can impede current flow. Since its a relatively cheap and easy process, you might want to try this before anything else. If you've got access to a dc voltmeter, check the battery also. | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2003 |
I checked and the battery is fine-fully charged. All of the electrical components-lights, radio and etc are working. The + and - cables look a little worse for wear from what I can see. Do you think if everything else is working (elec), that the starter still would not be getting enough juice? If so, I will replace the cables. I am not quite sure where the cables end up either. No spark from coil or dist. By the way, It sounds like the noise when I turn the ignition is coming from the crankcase, but it does NOT sound like it turning over...sounds like an elec motor. Thank you very much. | ||
| Tom Fioretti (Tom_in_md) New Member Username: Tom_in_md Post Number: 29 Registered: 02-2003 |
John, I guess I read through some of the earlier posts too quickly. Sounds like your starter is not engaging (like Mike said). If the engine isn't turning over, and you hear an electric motor run while the key is turned, that's probably it. Even if the starter is getting all the juice it needs, if it doesn't engage the starter ring gear, no go. | ||
| Roland Kutasi (Disco1) Member Username: Disco1 Post Number: 63 Registered: 10-2002 |
When you turn the ignition on, is the engine turning over normally? If it is and you are getting no spark, check the coil or the wires leading to the terminals to the coil. If the engine is not turning over, take Mike's advice. | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 11 Registered: 04-2003 |
OK.. I followed the negative battery wire and it looks in decent shape. I followed the positive wire and from what I could see, it was frayed at it's endpoint. I will try replacing that. Where exactly is the starter and is there any way for me to replace it???? | ||
| Jonathan Hensel (Nanoscale) Member Username: Nanoscale Post Number: 46 Registered: 03-2003 |
There's one way to find out, take a hammer and rap on the starter. Then coat the whole connecter parts with QD type contact cleaner. I've been doing it for a couple months now once every couple weeks. Delaying the inevitable. You can do the hammer first then try starting, to see if it's the solenoid. Then if not clean the contacts, even removing the positive cable clamp and scrubbing it clean. | ||
| Jonathan Hensel (Nanoscale) Member Username: Nanoscale Post Number: 47 Registered: 03-2003 |
Oh yeah, you asked where it is, sorry, crawl under the passenger door and look up, find the right side header pipe, it is up behind that, a cylindrical starter-looking thing. Bang on the big metal body part not the cute plastic parts. | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 12 Registered: 04-2003 |
Does the positive battery wire clamp to the starter? If so it is not very accessible. How did you get a hammer to it? | ||
| Jonathan Hensel (Nanoscale) Member Username: Nanoscale Post Number: 48 Registered: 03-2003 |
You arent banging the wire (NO!), but the body of the starter. The positive battery wire attaches to the back of the starter with nut clamping a terminal end. You can see the back of the starter easier by looking in the engine bay, passenger side, behind and underneath the four header pipes coming out of the engine, there is a heat shroud made out of sheet metal that might have some cloth type material left on it, then under that there is some connectors and such. Then a big cylindrical black object the size of a, oh Fosters Oil can maybe? No not quite, but close. I'll hang out a bit if you want to go try it... | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 13 Registered: 04-2003 |
Well.....I tried, but there was really no easy way to get to it. I was not hitting the wire, but when I tried to get the hammer up by the starter itself, I got some nasty sparks off of the wire/hammer coming in contact. I did not hit it, just got it close. By seeing where the starter is, I seriously doubt if I can get the battery cable run to it-very inaccessable. I will try tomorrow, though. I also doubt if this is something I am capable of replacing. Anyone know of a good Rover mechanic in Southeast Michigan!?!?!?!?!? | ||
| Jonathan Hensel (Nanoscale) Member Username: Nanoscale Post Number: 52 Registered: 03-2003 |
OK maybe by "hammer" I should have said "an object small enough to get to the starter housing but with enough mass to give it a whack". If are getting sparks you are shorting the battery positive and therefore I agree, go get it done by someone. I just wanted to get you driving to get it there. All the hitting is for is to jar loose the binding that is occuring. You've got a plunger in a cylinder shooting out the drive gear, and it may be binding because of slop or grime, either by the worn out contacts or the plunger sleeve itself. You ever had to tap the side of a can of Pringles to get the last chips out because they are stuck at some funky angle and not sliding down the can? That's all you are doing. | ||
| Bill Howell (Billh13) New Member Username: Billh13 Post Number: 22 Registered: 03-2003 |
John what was it. I'm still betting on the starter. | ||
| John W Petsch Jr (Jpetsch) New Member Username: Jpetsch Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2003 |
It was the starter. Now with everything else replaced, it runs like new again. Thanks for all the help folks!!!! Now I just have to replace the fuel filter!!! JP | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 178 Registered: 02-2003 |
another happy ending on the D-Web |
