| Author | Message | ||
     Jared Schnelle (Jared) Member Username: Jared Post Number: 63 Registered: 09-2002 |
Guys, I need some input from you guys (Paul T.)  My 95 DiscoI is having rough idle problems. I go out and crank the engine once it's dead cold, and it'll idle, usually around 500-750. Once the engine is under load (driving) for about 2 minutes, it warms up to a certian point. Once it's at that point (and above) it'll just flat out die if I dont give it any gas. So, if I'm at a stop sign, I have to hold the break / give it gas. Here's what's new on it: -Fuel Pump -Fuel Pressure Regulator -Fuel Filter -Spark Plugs -Wires -Coil -Idle Air Control Valve I've read some of the other "idle" problem threads, and they pointed towards some other areas which we could check out. The MAFS, the ECU, and the Coolant/Fuel tempature sensors. Well, rather than go through the process of sticking in new, more expensive parts, I took the rover to an import shop here in town, and for 75 bucks they were supposed to diagnose the problem. They ran compression tests, etc, and came up with the solution that it was clogged fuel injectors. (Here's where Paul T. comes into it). Paul has another thread going right now talking about his fuel injectors, and how they had rust in the rails etc. I paid the shop another 100 bucks to run 2 cans of their fuel treatment through it, while the fuel line was hooked up to another machine. I figured rather than let them pull the injectors and clean them, I'll let them do this, and if the problem is solved, next time I run into an idle problem, I'll just yank the injectors and get a shop to service them. Problem is, that didnt help either. They then ran another set of compression tests, wheras these were "running compression tests", and he said the pressure shouldnt vary by much in either cylinder. (Now comes my lack of expertise) I dont know exactly what the readings on the pressure test should show, but he said cylninder 7, which is driver's bank, 3rd back reads 80 while running instead of 120 like the others. He said this means either sticking valves, or bad valve guides. He then offered to do a valve job at $2000. So far I'm not impressed. If I had severly sticking valves, or bad valve guides, then why would my car run _just fine_ except when it tries to idle? Wouldn't I experience misfires, or the car dying at other times. What difference does the engine temperature have with these? I need your help. Jared | ||
| Jared Schnelle (Jared) Member Username: Jared Post Number: 64 Registered: 09-2002 |
Just some more FYI I have 154k miles, I bought this at 149k miles August of 2002 for $6950. There's no way I'm paying 2000 for a valve job. I'd much rather throw in a new engine. | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1292 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jared: I had less than $750 tied up in a valve job for my truck. Depending upon your wisdom when ordering parts (pilot error-induced cost overruns!) and the cost of the head work, you might be able to do this job for less. As for the injector cleaning, from what I saw on Friday, if they aren't running nitric acid through the fuel rail, they ain't gonna get the crud out. Peace, Paul | ||
| Jared Schnelle (Jared) Member Username: Jared Post Number: 65 Registered: 09-2002 |
Paul, in your opinion could problems with the valve cause only an idle problem? I swear I dont see any issues anywhere else. | ||
| Jared Schnelle (Jared) Member Username: Jared Post Number: 66 Registered: 09-2002 |
Also, what is the name of the tool which resets the ECU, is it the AutoLogic or something like that? | ||
| Land Rover Certified Used A**hole (Jason) Senior Member Username: Jason Post Number: 466 Registered: 04-2002 |
Not on a 1995 D1...pull the positive lead off the battery for about 10 minutes, reconnect. Turn on the ignition. Turn it off for 30 seconds. Start it up. | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1293 Registered: 02-2002 |
Robison, I need your help! Often-times, issues arise at idle because of the vacuum conditions which are only encountered at idle ( nearly closed butterfly, etc.). Some of these vehicles develop rough idles and I could retire if I could fix it the first time. I'm now recommending that for every vehicle that comes in, we replace the coolant and fuel temp sensors before going any further. Of course, I also start out with the basics, return the vehicle to baseline (ignition, fuel filter, air filter, etc.) which you have already done. Once the vehicle comes up off idle, other controlling issues take over and you don't notice any problems as they don't occur as often off-idle. Idle control circuit versus running conditions. Is this it? Man, that's a tough question to answer over the internet. Resetting the ECU-do you mean turning the dash lights off? On the passenger side ofthe vehicle, above the bolster, there is a white connector (serial interface connection). With the key on, disconnect the plug, turn the key off, wait to hear the relay unlatch (damn, can't remember exact sequence), turn key on, reconnect connector-or something along those lines! if you wish to do more than read the diagnostic codes on the readout, you will need a testbook (dealer only), or a Rovacom or autologic. With 154K miles, there could be any of a number of things causing a rough idle. I hope you bought your truck expecting to need to work on it! I know I did. A valve job would not hurt this engine and might point you to other things to fix once you get her opened up. Peace, Paul | ||
| Jared Schnelle (Jared) Member Username: Jared Post Number: 67 Registered: 09-2002 |
I just remember reading in another post about someone resetting the computer to fix an idle problem. I'll do what Jason said once I get the car back tomorrow. I dont have any check engine lights, and I never have. The ODBI below the passenger's seat has never shown a code either. You said it correctly though, the issue only exists at idle conditions. Paul, where can I purchase those two sensors? Also, where did you get the parts for your valve job? Thanks, Jared | ||
| Chris Urquieta (Curquieta) New Member Username: Curquieta Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2002 |
(pilot error-induced cost overruns!) Care to elaborate on that statement?!? | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1294 Registered: 02-2002 |
Pilot-error induced cost overruns... First off, you need to be aware that the reason I had to do the valve job was due to my own CB nature. Secondly, my truck was supposedly built prior to the introduction of the composite gaskets, and I bought the steel gaskets, only to learn the engine was of the ten bolt variety. So, now I have a set of steel gaskets-just in case:-). Then I had a vendor grossly overcharge me for head bolts. Then, I couldn't get one of the head bolts free and bought an impact wrennch. I think you get the picture <grin>. Yes, I am my own worst enemy. Jared: Try Nathan for parts first. If he can get them to you in time, he's usually the best, otherwise, DAP seems to have really good prices on aftermarket parts. If you insist on OEM parts, Rovers North has good service. Peace, Paul | ||
| Jared Schnelle (Jared) Member Username: Jared Post Number: 69 Registered: 09-2002 |
Nathan is with discount rovers? And what is DAP? Thanks for everything Paul. | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1296 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jason: To reset the ECU, the serial plug is disconnected with the key in position one for five seconds, reconnected, the key turned off, wait for the relay to drop out, then turn key on, voila, the light is out (I had to do it last night when I set two codes while checking for fuel leaks). DAP-inc.com will get you to DAP. Nathan is indeed DiscountRovers, 1-502-8-rovers. Tell him I sent you, I speak with him almost daily. Peace, Paul | ||
| J E Robison Service Co (Robisonservice) Member Username: Robisonservice Post Number: 71 Registered: 10-2002 |
Important information - if you have a problem with the 3rd back cylinder on the left - as Jared does - most often you have a BAD BLOCK, not a BAD VALVE. Look carefully. There is a problem with the way the sleeves were set into the blocks on that cylinder. Pull the head and more often than not you'll find the sleeve slipped out of place. A valve job is a waste of money becuase the motor will blow again. The answer is usually a new short block. Remeber - block failures are most often that 3rd cylinder back on the left on 3.9 and 4.0 motors. Responding to some of the other comments here: Paul is right, idle problems are often a result of small vacuum leaks or fuelling errors that are masked at higher speed. Spray with choke cleaner to find leaks. As to cleaning injectors on the car - usually a waste. The fuel rails rust and pick up sediment inside. You need to remove the rail and look. If it's bad change it. Send the injectors to a Bosch service center for cleaning. Look on my web site in the service department, there is a link to Bosch, where you can find a worldwide map of service center locations with proper equipment to test and rebuild your injectors. Much less money than new ones. John www.robisonservice.com | ||
| todd slater (Toddslater) Senior Member Username: Toddslater Post Number: 272 Registered: 08-2002 |
John, Is there any reason that you could not just have the block re-sleeved instead of getting a whole new short block ? | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1305 Registered: 02-2002 |
Thanks John, both for the insight and the independent confirmation of my statements. | ||
| Jared Schnelle (Jared) Member Username: Jared Post Number: 71 Registered: 09-2002 |
What is the process of using carb cleaner to find vacuum leaks? | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1308 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jared: Spray the carburetor cleaner around the various mating lines of the intake, etc. and around the vacuum lines. If/when you find one that is leaking,the engine will either smooth out or quit as the engine is now sucking in the cleaner solvent rather than air, disrupting the air/fuel mixture that was being affected by the leaks. FWIW-I've NEVER had this work for me. Were I you and I were convinced this was the problem, I'd begin by replacing the vaccum lines to the distributor (if you have one) and the line to the valve cover, the brake booster line, and the evaporative canister. My experience has been that the line to the brake booster (which curiously has a check valve so it shouldn't affect idle quality) is usually torn up and cracked. Don't forget the line to the idle air control valve and the fuel pressure regulator. Peace, Paul | ||
| Jared Schnelle (Jared) Member Username: Jared Post Number: 72 Registered: 09-2002 |
Ok, so I have it working again. I idle around 650-700 constantly, even through temperature changes. We were looking in the engine compartment just to double check all the vacuum hoses were on their good, and my brother noticed the throttle cable adjuster knob was extremly loose. So I tightened it up and that fixed the problem. Go figure. |
