| Author | Message | ||
     Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 228 Registered: 10-2002 |
While giving my tires the rudimentary pressure check (pushing on it with my foot) I felt a distinct shift and clunking noise. Initially I worried that the axle was broken, so we jacked it up, but when I turned the tire the driveshaft rotated so I guess it's all connected. We took the tire off and removed the 5 17mm bolts (with loctite) from the flange but then we couldn't move anything else. There was a rubber center cap which I pried off. Underneath was a circular spring pin. Didn't have spreaders. Wouldn't come off. I'm now thinking that maybe my wheel bearings are shot or loose or whatever? How should I properly diagnose this problem? When I push on the tire the wheel and rotor move significantly but everything else stays in place. The swivel ball appears solid. Any thoughts? Paul Schram I'm looking in your direction... thanks in advance. | ||
| Mike Bauer (Mikeb) New Member Username: Mikeb Post Number: 19 Registered: 02-2003 |
How many miles do you have on your truck? My wheel bearings needed repacking at 48k miles. It takes some time to do the job, but it's not all that technical. Beyond basic hand tools and wheel grease, you'll need pliers to spread the retaining ring and a 2 1/16th hub nut tool to remove the hub nut. As far as parts, you will need a seal, a gasket, and a locking tab washer. I got those parts at the dealership. I bought the wheel bearings from NAPA. Thanks, Mike B. | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 229 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm at 56k miles so that could be right. Do my symptoms sound like wheel bearings to you? thanks. | ||
| James (Jimmyg) Member Username: Jimmyg Post Number: 232 Registered: 10-2002 |
Perfect! I just passed 177,777 miles and just replaced the wheel bearings for the first time...I believe. The tire actually moved and inch to and from from the center of the axle. Kind of freaky. I felt nothing while driving. I did see the rig in the air. It did mess up my brakes for the first push. Does $220 sound normal for diagnosing/ replacing bearing including parts/labor from Timkein(?) and repacking? Thanks, James p.s. Truck feels so much smoother...not to mention it was off 10 degrees on timing. Runs like new. | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 231 Registered: 10-2002 |
So how dangerous is this? Can I drive the truck to napa to get parts? Paul, have you forsaken me? | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1316 Registered: 02-2002 |
OMG! I wish I knew how you guys tear up these bearings. 167K and mine are fine, front and rear. OK, back to the issue at hand. Jack: First off, sorry,I was out tearing up my truck wheelin' and it was great for the soul! So far, you haven't disassembled anything in an order you shouldn't have. We'll get started here and if you get stuck, you can e-mail me directly and I can talk you through it over the phone. First off, put the drive flange bolts back in, you are ahead of yourself at this point. Jack the vehicle up and remove the wheel (the manual would say to disconnect the battery, but don't). With the wheel off, check that the hub is turning smoothly. Does it run true? how far can you deflect the rotor up and down versus left to right? Try to pull it away from the truck also, it's not supposed to move it that direction either. The rotor/hub should not appreciably move in either plane, it is only intended to turn. If the hub moves other than in a rotational manner, there is a problem. You will need at the very least, a pair of external snap-ring pliers (I do not suggest getting the all-in-one set as they are usually junk). With the truck on jack stands, pop the rubber cap off and remove the snap-ring. There is a series of spacers beneath, keep these for reassembly. Now, remove the bolts from the drive flange-mark the drive flange so you get it on the way it came off, I use a center punch and punch both the flange and the hub. Remove the drive flange. Now, you will see a big-assed nut with a washer bent over it. Gently bend the washer back so you can turn the nut. If you're bearings are grenaded, you will be able to see it now (perhaps). Remove the nut 2-1/16", the bend washer and the nut behind. Now, you have come to the final washer and the moment of truth! Gently pull the hub assembly toward you. It weighs a few pounds, but nothing too much, just remember, it includes your brake rotor D'Oh, forgot to tell you to remove the caliper mounting bolts, they are 14 m/m 12-point (you can use a 9/16" if needbe). The outboard bearing will pull off easily-the inboard bearing, you will need to pull the seal. If you are careful, it can be reused, but I don't advise it. Use the RTC-3511 seal on reassembly, it is a better seal and easier to use. Once you have gotten to this point, the condition of your bearings should be evident if they were the cause of your strife. If they are the problem, NAPA BR37 will do the trick, but you will have to carefully drive the races from the hub, and then just as carefully, drive the new ones in-use a brass punch. Once you get there, you'll know what's up. It usually takes me a coupla hours to tear a hub apart and get it back together. If you need more help, e-mail me at BTLRovers (at) hotmail.com and I'll give you my phone number and we can discuss it if you need more help. Peace, Paul | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 233 Registered: 10-2002 |
Is this guy something special or what? Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr. Paul Schram! | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 235 Registered: 10-2002 |
Just wanted to clarify if possible, How dangerous is this? I won't be taking an trips offroad till it's taken care of, but can I drive the dog to the beach? I would estimate the play at less than an inch (with wheel on), but significant enough to be readily apparent. with the wheel off, the rotor deflects in camber but hardly moves in and out (with regard to the axle) | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1328 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jack: Until you get a chance to determine what is wrong, you run the risk of increasing the repair cost ten-hundred fold. If you do indeed have a bearing problem, you may be looking at needing to replace the stub axle in addition to the bearings. If you go further, the costs can increase exponentially (broken stub axle, grenaded CV joint, busted half-shafts, torn up swivel housing). To be painfully honest, given the difficulty of diagnosing such things over the internet, I would prefer that you not drive it at all until you determine the source of your concerns. Once you get it torn apart down to the bearings, I'll feel much better about your driving it. Better to tear it apart and find your fears unfounded than have you continue driving it and destroy your opinion of me:-) along with your front-end. Peace, Paul | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 238 Registered: 10-2002 |
wilco. luckily the landy isn't my daily driver so it can just sit while I take my time tearing the hub apart slowly and carefuly. I may have to order some Facom circlip pliers to complete this job. grin. I was figuring that I would also tear down the other side for comparison and to do a visual inspection. I figure even if it looks pretty good, bearings and whatnot are cheap so I might as well replace it, just to be egalitarian about the whole thing. Is that a good idea or totally unnecessary? | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1331 Registered: 02-2002 |
If you're gonna replace one, by all means replace the other. The napa bearings shouldn't cost you more than ~$25/each and you'll need four to do the front end, two per side. | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 245 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well I've started. A couple questions so far: 1) When I got the flange bolts out and started to work it off a small amount of thin dirty liquid dripped out on to the ground. It didn't smell strongly and wasn't very greasy. Seemed A LOT like water. I just did a very deep long water crossing just before I noticed the play in the wheel. could these be related? 2) When I pulled the flange off, the folded metal washer came right out w/o any bending and the first hubnut was barely on. it came right off by hand. Shouldn't the outer nut be locked down on the inner one? Could these loose nuts be the culprit? 3) The write up in tech (http://www.discoweb.org/faq/wbearing.htm) says to use channel locks on the hub nut, but I don't want to scratch up the nut. I'm having a lot of trouble finding the hub nut tool. Why would it be 2 1/16"? Why english and not metric? Shouldn't it be 53mm? Most shops (napa, pep boys, autozone, kragen) claim they can't even get 2 1/16" but say they can order/carry 2 3/32"? What's the story on hub nut tools? thanks again for all your help. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 660 Registered: 09-2002 |
Jack, it is 52mm, FWIW. same size as old CJ and Wagoneers' Dana 27 and 30 hub nuts. NAPA can order one for you and you can have it next day. Just tell them you have an old jeep. There's nothing bad about scratching the nuts, in general. It applies all the same to wheel bearing nuts. I've used chisel and whatnot on mine, and never had any problems with them. Besides, they tend to stay put better when they are banged up and scored. peter | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 254 Registered: 10-2002 |
Why do various write-ups push the RTC-3511 as a superior seal? I was just ordering parts from BP (I need em quick so I can get the landy back on the road!) and they talked me out of it. What's so different? Did I make a mistake? | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1386 Registered: 02-2002 |
The RTC 3511 has a double lip seal that is considered to be superior. I like them for the ridge that limits insertion depth. As for answers to your questions: 1: It may have been water-don't sweat it, just dump everything out as you progress. Dump the swivel and diff too after wading. 2: Ding,ding,ding-it looks like we have the culprit! Were the bearings tight against the races? I'm curious to hear your impressions after reassembly! 3: The only case in which I would ever conisder using anything other than the correct tools is in an emergency situation. Buy the damned socket! It really bothers my sensibility to see nuts chewed up by a chisel. Sure, you can beat the nut off, but I can use a big wacker to open the window too, don't make it right. If gouges made nuts tighter, we'd be buying pre-gouged nuts... Peace, Paul |
