| Author | Message | ||
     Hans (Beowulf) New Member Username: Beowulf Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hello, I am looking for 12 people (the more the merrier and the better the prices will be) who are interested in buying brand new 2003 Defender 110 Station Wagons. I am currently working with a Registered Importer and we are interested in taking on the D110 project and bringing it back to America. The vehicles will be fully legal with DOT/EPA certifications and able to be registered in any U.S. State. We were originally going to do 2 at first, but we need to make sure we have interested buyers before we spend any more money on research to recoup our initial losses. It is too expensive to do only 1 or 2 vehicles and find out there is not a market for them, but if we can at least get 12 confirmed buyers we can make this a reality. In order to streamline the process all vehicles will be as follows: 2003 Defender 110 Station Wagon Chawton White exterior / Grey Interior 300TDi Power Plant And of course 4x4 and CDL These are not TD5 models and there are no ECU’s controlling the engine, hence it will not come with the other techno stuff such as HDC or EBD that is found in the TD5. It is a classic Defender 110 in its Utilitarian form. Also these are not ex-MOD cancelled orders, but are brand new straight from the factory. In addition to the 12 vehicles that will go to the interested parties, my business partner and I will be buying 2 more Defender 110’s; these will be the sacrificial lambs as they may have to be crash tested and possibly be retro-fit with airbags. We are working with a company that developed a cat-converter that can prove to the EPA that the 300TDi or any other quality diesel for that matter can pass emission standards. The cat was originally developed for Mercedes Benz import diesels, but can be adopted to most any other vehicle as well. The price breakdown will be as follows: $500 Initial deposit $22,275 *2003 D110 Station Wagon $1,950 *Shipping to Port Huememe, CA $19,275 DOT/EPA conversion work and labor $43,500 Total Per vehicle * = based on exchange rate of 1 GPB to 1.5 USD Here is my info: Hans Ruf 452 ½ Orange Ave Coronado, CA 92118 the_rufs@sbcglobal.net I am retired Navy and I have been living at the same address for over 7 years. If you want to meet with me in person or give me a call, drop me an email and I will be glad to get a hold of you and answer any questions you may have. This is my Registered Importer’s info: Barry Taylor Enterprises 110 South 23rd Street Units D&E Richmond, CA 94804 (510) 235-3990 Barry has imported thousands of cars and has been in business for many years. All business transactions will be done through Barry Taylor Enterprises as he has the needed licenses, not through me. If you want to call him to make sure we are legit, by all means please do, but to answer any Defender questions about pricing and vehicle specs please get a hold of me as Barry has many other projects going on and I will be able to handle your questions more thoroughly. Barry is also listed here on the NHTSA list of Registered Importers: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/RIlist_01072003.html In 1993 the NAS Defender 110 sold for approximately $39,999. This is a great chance to own a brand new Defender 110 with the 300TDi at a price that is only slightly higher than when they were originally imported and actually cheaper than what a used 1993 NAS D110 is going for now. Thanks for taking the time out to check my post! Please drop me an email if you have any further questions. Cheers, Hans | ||
| Todd Nash (Nash) New Member Username: Nash Post Number: 11 Registered: 02-2003 |
Wow, That sounds like a great deal! I wish you the best on that endeavour. I'd like to have a Defender myself, but I'm too much of a wuss for this project. Maybe once you guys get the pipeline flowing, I'll be able to weasel into a new D110. Good Luck. | ||
| Hans (Beowulf) New Member Username: Beowulf Post Number: 15 Registered: 03-2003 |
Thanks for the kind words, I put a lot of work into setting this up; let's hope I can raise enough interest for the project. A lot of people are always saying how much they want the Defender back here in the states so this is a great chance to own one at a great price with a very reputable Registered Importer. When I first sought out interested parties I called quite a few RI’s that were listed on the NHTSA website and they all recommended Barry Taylor as the man. Cheers, Hans | ||
| Hans (Beowulf) New Member Username: Beowulf Post Number: 16 Registered: 03-2003 |
For those who may be interested here are some more specs and a picture of what the vehicles will look like. 2003 300TDi Station Wagon (brand new, with delivery miles only) A/C No Stereo Full Time 4x4 White Exterior/Grey Interior NATO Steel Wheels (white) D110 ROW | ||
| John Kruger (Johnnyk) Member Username: Johnnyk Post Number: 199 Registered: 02-2002 |
Wasn't the external cages required on the 93s? | ||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 525 Registered: 07-2002 |
Sounds like a good idea. Still, the price is too high for most people I think. But if it is to be done, this is probably a good way to get a significant discount on a new one. I would see if you can get the R.I. price even further down for the bulk order - you are giving them a LOT of business if you do this. | ||
| Hans (Beowulf) New Member Username: Beowulf Post Number: 17 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hi John, yes the exo cage was required, the D110 in the picture/link is still in the UK before any conversion work has been done on it.
Hi R.B., unfortunately the price cannot come down any further. The problem lies with getting the actual DOT/EPA certifications. The only way to make the price go down any further would be to forego the actual certifications and just have them meet certifications. But there is a big difference between the 2, you can get still get the vehicle registered and titled without having the actual certifictions (not in California though, so if you are a CA resident you would have to register it out of state in some place like Oregon) but just because it is titled and registered does not mean that it is legal to drive and if anyone were to get into even a minor fender-bender once they find out it doesn't have the actual certs it will be an open field day on the owner; he will be sued left and right by all parties regardless if its his fault or not and his insurance company will not be liable for any of it. meets certification = bad has actual certifications = good It is really expensive to get the actual certs and that is why you see a lot of "Grey Market D110s" on the market, these people choose to forego the actual certs and just have the vehicle meet them, but they are asking for trouble in the long run, especially if you plan on using the vehicle in any business type situation where you would be transporting people in it. So in order to safely get people their D110 we really need to get the actual DOT/EPA certifications. I personally would not want to be responsible for someone going into financial despair over a vehicle. So I will only do this the right way for everybody's benefit including my own. Cheers, Hans | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 191 Registered: 01-2003 |
I wish you luck! When my wife gets out of grad school in two years I hope you are around, I am sure would love the chance to get one. I love my disco, but I always loved the look of the d110 and think it would fun to own one. That price seems reasonable, I bet if LR would bring the 110 back it would cost more. I can see that my driveway in the future is going to filled with lots of LR's in various states of running. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2139 Registered: 02-2002 |
Hans, I must say, it sure sounds like your going the through all of the hoops to make it completely legitimate. Yes, $20k is sure a premium to pay to make it legal, but, given that your price is coming in at under $45k for a new vehicle, whereas the '93 D110s are all pretty much selling upwards of $40k, and this would be new instead of 10-years old, AND is a 300Tdi instead of a V8, it sure seems like a no brainer to me.... I really wish I had the dimes to drop on one.... Best of luck! -L | ||
| Willie Joubert (Willie) Member Username: Willie Post Number: 90 Registered: 02-2002 |
I am sure the 300Tdi is no more in production.....how can this be brand new but with no Td5...?? | ||
| Hans (Beowulf) New Member Username: Beowulf Post Number: 18 Registered: 03-2003 |
Thanks again for the feedback, I will be running a couple ads in the AutoTrader and in a couple of Land Rover magazines coming up to try and raise some more interest in the project. Although I'd like to do it as soon as possible, there is no time limit really ... so I will just try to keep pursuing it.
Hi Willie, Land Rover never ceased production of the 300TDi, it can still be ordered from the factory at request (and rumors have it that it is better than ever with increased HP and torque). The Defender is sold to all kinds of third world countries, so Land Rover needs to keep a simple truck for those nations that are less technically advanced and do not have the means to hook something up to a computer for diagnosis. The British MOD also needs vehicles that can be repaired in the field easily and do not require a computer to diagnose any problems. For us this means, no costly trips to the dealer to diagnose any conditions of the vehicle, any competent diesel mechanic can service the engine for you, other benefits of course are on the trails ... There is so much less to go wrong with a 300TDi as oppposed to a TD5 ECU controlled vehicle. This is why we want to concentrate on this power plant, easier to work on, less parts, up to 28MPG and will outlast a V8 up to 3 times longer ... the 300TDi diesel is just getting warmed up at 150,000 miles. I am sure if you went to Land Rover Special Vehicles in the UK and asked them to build you the most bullet proof Expedition Vehicle they could make; they would use the 300TDi, it is that good. Cheers, Hans | ||
| Eric N (Grnrvr) Senior Member Username: Grnrvr Post Number: 1314 Registered: 02-2002 |
Hans, I hope that you find the buyers. If I had the money right now I would be interested. However, I'm sure that some time in the next few years I'll have the money and would love to get my hands on one. Good luck.. I really hope that it works out. | ||
| Neal Glessner (Nealg) Senior Member Username: Nealg Post Number: 651 Registered: 02-2002 |
Hans, YOu should call Nathan at DiscountRovers.com. He has a few on the way into the US. | ||
| Sabine Dawn (Sabine_dawn) New Member Username: Sabine_dawn Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2003 |
Hans, For those of us less knowledgable, what exactly is that $19K being used for in conversion? You mentioned catalytic addition and possible airbags. What else needs to be added/changed to get the US gov. to say OK? It was my meager understanding the external roll cage was needed. Other than that, I'm just curious. SD | ||
| Hans (Beowulf) New Member Username: Beowulf Post Number: 22 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hi Sabine, most of the EPA research work has already been done with the new Cat-Conv that was designed, so that is not a big problem. (On a side note, after hearing about the preliminary results, I have a feeling that the design of this Cat-converter is so good that it is going to set the standards for importation of diesel vehicles into America, it is that good.) The DOT on the other hand is the hardest part to overcome, from the DOT safety standpoint they are most concerned with how much of a hit/impact it can take in a frontal collision and often times this can be overcome with an inexpensive bumper design that Barry used when he converted Gwagons for Europa (it was Barry's team that did the conversion work for Europa and the Merceds Benz GWagon) where they re-designed the entire dash and rebuilt it in order to fit the airbags, they also designed a special bumper to make it pass certification. The dollar amount was figured in with the needed research for the DOT certifications of the project. The parts (i.e. DOT approved dash, lighting, safety buzzers, seatbelts, bumpers, etc.) are not the biggest factor (in fact they total to probably less than half the conversion price) because Barry already has bumper and dash designs that can be implemented into most any vehicle, so this part has been basically streamlined through years of business practice. The DOT research, labor and certifications are the big cost and it is responsible for holding everybody up from taking on this project. Cheers, Hans | ||
| Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Senior Member Username: Gregdavis Post Number: 838 Registered: 08-2002 |
Hans, do you know if it's the GVW of a vehicle that requires it to have airbags? Reason I ask is the H1 Hummers don't have airbags, yet they're sold to the public. Just wondering that if the suspension, axles, etc. were beefed up enough to raise the GVW, could you get past the airbag issue? | ||
| Richard Dekkard (Richard_dekkard) New Member Username: Richard_dekkard Post Number: 27 Registered: 04-2003 |
I dont mean to piss on anyone parade or say anything other then what I have found out. As some of you may be aware, I am currently putting a diesel in my Disco. During my search for a 300tdi in england I spoke to more than 5 different vendors and Land Rover in Solihull themselves. If any of this is incorrect I apologize but this is what I was told by all of them. " The 300tdi engine was no longer produced as of 2000, and the design and manufacture license was sold to International of Brazil which now makes the 300tdi, and its slightly larger brother the 2.8l.. The 300tdi is no longer offered in vehicles except in South America and a select other few markets. The UK is NOT one of these markets." This is the information I was told only 2 weeks ago. So what I am merely suggesting is, that these are either CKD's (completely knocked down kits for export) or models designed for export market only, in which case it might be considered odd that they are in the UK and fully assembled. (why re-import a native vehicle). Im not saying Hans is up to anything funny, I just want to add this information to the thread. Alot of people have been burned trying to get 110's and 90's and it certainly looks like Hans has been taking the right steps, it just rings odd to me that these are white 110's and that they have 300tdi's and not td5's. I would suggest that if a selection of vin's were given the vehicles origins could be traced through Land Rover Solihull and they could determine the original market intent for the vehicles, and this might show the viability or added complexities of bring them in with the certification.. I hope it works out for everyone though, it would be nice to have alot more in the country, but from what I understand, converting a 90 to a 110 is currently the least expensive and legal way to go. | ||
| Richard Dekkard (Richard_dekkard) New Member Username: Richard_dekkard Post Number: 28 Registered: 04-2003 |
I was chatting to a friend about this thread and he mentioned something I hadnt thought of either but was mentioned earlier. He said that it was his understanding that the only 110 that could be imported are 1993 models and they still have to be brought up to epa spec, but that they were legal because Land Rover brought them in that year, and the DOT req's didnt mandate and airbag. However, now you cannot import any 1996 or newer vehicle that does not have an airbag and is classified as passenger auto or light truck. I suppose it is not out of the realm of possibility to put an airbag system on one of these without out too much expense, but man, what a bodgit fest that would be. | ||
| Hans (Beowulf) New Member Username: Beowulf Post Number: 23 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hi Richard, That is true, the 300TDi models are no longer offered for sale to UK citizens, they only sell the TD5 models to British residents, but Solihull DOES still produce Defenders with the 300TDi and they are called ROW (Rest of World) models that are 100%completed (with 300TDi installed) at the factory in Solihull for export outside of the UK only. As I mentioned in my post above, Land Rover still sells the D110 to other 3rd world countries who do not have the means to do a computer diagnosis for servicing an engine (such as would be needed by the TD5) so they still need to keep low tech models for these types of places. But there is nothing different about the build quality and parts used, it simply does not come with the TD5 or other things like stereos, HDC, EBD, etc. (they do have A/C though). Almost all Land Rover government and MOD vehicles have the 300TDi powerplant as well, (including the Wolf) the military especailly needs vehicles that can be easily maintained and repaired in the field. It is also true to my knowledge that they no longer produce the 300TDi engine at the factory. You heard it is produced in Brazil, but I heard it was made in Spain (by Iveco) the people who make the Santana Annibal which is the Spanish version of a Defender/Series type hybrid. I am not positive of it's actual production location, but word has it that whoever is now making it (Spain or Brazil) they tweaked it out and it is better than ever with results close to the Powerstroke and more HP and torque than the TD5.
They are not re-importing any vehicles, that would not make any sense or be very cost effective, they only import the 300TDi engine because it is not made at the factory anymore. And that is not odd at all, do you think that every item in a vehicle is produced at the original car manufacturer's plant? That is not the case, parts are outsourced all the time ... half the parts in GM's cars are made in Mexico by a bunch of different companies but assemlbled in Detroit. I would find it odd if they shipped half a Land Rover to another country who produces the engine for it to be completed there and then send it back to England for re-sale, since an engine is smaller and weighs far less than a Defender 110 why not just import the engines and put them in at the factory? (which is exactly what they do).
In order to keep the prices down as low as possible we chose a bare-bones ROW model to start out with. However it is still the same vehicle, quality, parts and 4WD CDL system ... it just comes with the 300TDi instead of a TD5 and minus all the techno ECU gadgets that come with a TD5 model ... but IMO if you are looking for a trail rig then simplicty is the best way to go, as far as I'm concerned Land Rover can keep all the eletronic gizmos and just give me an engine that doesn't rely on an ECU to run it or a computer to diagnose and service it, then I will just throw in a couple of airlockers and wheel cirles around anything the factory produces in the TD5. We are dealing with a vehicle that; by the time it is converted will already cost over $40K, so if we started doing options such as different paint codes, stereos, upgraded fabrics, etc. we would start approaching the $50K range and that is more than most people want to spend on a vehicle they are going to ride hard and put away wet.
If I can get this project off the ground there is no way you will be able to build a brand new D110 300TDi (where every part in it is brand new from the factory) at $43,500. If you did a lot of work yourself, you may be able to piece together a nice D110 by scouring the junkyard for old parts for around $45-50k though, or have ECR build you one for $70K.
You are correct, as of right now the only Defender 110 on the eligibilty list is the NAS spec 1993 model. But that doesn't mean that it is the only year that can ever be imported, anybody can import any vehicle ever manufactured as long as it can meet the DOT/EPA specs for the year it was manufactured and you are willing to pay for the research needed to make it meet those standards.
That's strange you would say that ... the 1997 Defender 90 that was imported to the US has no airbags, is classified as a light truck/passenger vehicle and imported after 1996. And as somebody else already mentioned the H1 doesn't have airbags either.
Does the Europa (Merceds Benz G-wagon) look like a "bodgit fest"? That vehicle had no airbags and no DOT certifications when Europa first started importing them until the Registered Importer I'm working with (Barry Taylor) redesigned the dash to fit airbags. If you have seen a Europa GWagon the airbags are seemlessly integrated into the vehicle and looks like it came directly from the factory that way. Barry has many designs and ideas for airbag installations and it will look like a very professinal install. If you have anymore questions or comments, just post a message. Cheers, Hans | ||
| Hans (Beowulf) New Member Username: Beowulf Post Number: 24 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hi Greg, good question and it sounds logical, that may be a big reason it doesn't have airbags along with it's military/government ties. The problem with beefing up the D110 though is the 300TDi 4 banger. Because this particular powerplant is geared towards off roading and MPG it is slow enough on the road as it, if we started adding more weight to the vehicle, you might get from 0 to 60 in about 5 minutes  Cheers, Hans | ||
| Richard Dekkard (Richard_dekkard) New Member Username: Richard_dekkard Post Number: 30 Registered: 04-2003 |
Hans, Thanks for addressing those points.. The more these points are clarified the more people can feel at ease that this is all legit and possible. I feel fairly satisfied with the case you have laid out. The insurance liability issues are really the crux of all of it, since we all have seen grey market vehicles on the street, and the peace of mind from a actual certified one will be worth it for any long time enthusiast. I wish you luck and will certainly mention this venture to anyone I know who is looking for a 110. The airbag issue is still a mystery to me though , specially in regard to hummers. There is another mysterious issue with most hummers as well . For instance here in Colorado the legal limit for road use tires in a passenger or light truck is 34". I was made aware of this during my state inspection, as my tires are 34" and the woman kindly told me that I was just at the limit. Now obviously this is not enforced as I see many rigs on the roads with 35's and larger. But the H1 and H2 all come with 35's from the dealer???? I am quite curious about that, and also, what the liability issues are for all of you running around on the roads with 35's. Sure you may not get a ticket, but is it a nice excuse for your insurance to not pay up in an accident? oh well, good luck hans.. |
