| Author | Message | ||
     Paul Schuetz (Schuetz) Member Username: Schuetz Post Number: 71 Registered: 04-2002 |
http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/Main_Wrecks.htm | ||
| Dan Watson (Dwatson) New Member Username: Dwatson Post Number: 22 Registered: 02-2003 |
The D-90 Tumble Dryer story is BS, no backhole I've ever used would lift that much weight. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 457 Registered: 05-2002 |
Dan, I see that you are pretty new to this board so I will be easy on you. To begin with, "backhoe" is the word - not "backhole". Secondly, a Disco can be easily lifted by a backhoe. As an example, a Volvo medium duty D4D has a lifting capacity of 7,619 Lbs.(3,456 Kg). These rigs obtain these capacities by the strategic use of outriggers. There are many industrial backhoes on the market that will easily triple the weight of a Disco in lifting capacity. Curtis | ||
| Tommy Dougherty (Skydiver) Member Username: Skydiver Post Number: 130 Registered: 03-2002 |
My wreck is there - 'rolling down the interstate.' No BS. Shows how well these things hold up. I replaced that 97 DI with a 01 DII. -Tommy | ||
| Nick C (Nicholas) New Member Username: Nicholas Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2003 |
Damn Man! your lucky you survived that one!What happened? | ||
| Dan Watson (Dwatson) New Member Username: Dwatson Post Number: 23 Registered: 02-2003 |
Sorry, I was in a hurry and didn’t proofread my post. I am glad you caught my error and brought it to my attention. If I promise not to let anything like that happen again can I continue to post here? As for the story, I have never used a Volvo. My experience is with Case, JD, and Ford model backhoes, and I have never read the owner’s manual to see what their lifting capacity was. I know that none I have ever used, or anything I would classify as a backhoe, would ever come close to lifting a D-90, especially with the hoe extended as the picture shows. Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you, which it appears I did, I just don’t buy this story as it is told. One last thing though, at $80-120 an hour for a dozer and $60-80 an hour for a hoe this guy appears to have spent a shit load of money to recover what appears to be a already totaled 90. | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2377 Registered: 04-2002 |
Well if you don't buy it then why do you think he went through all the trouble to photoshop the picture and make up the story?? An adjuster has to see the truck before it can be totaled, I doubt they would want to drive out and look at it in the ravine. | ||
| Kevin Bridges (Craniac) Member Username: Craniac Post Number: 125 Registered: 02-2003 |
That would be a critical lift for that backhoe. Who knows, maybe he had a bucket full of rocks. Also it could be a little decptive as to fow far the hoe was from the truck. For some reason that photo does look a little "funny" or should I say fishey. | ||
| Dan Watson (Dwatson) New Member Username: Dwatson Post Number: 24 Registered: 02-2003 |
You make a good point Carter, but I agree with Kevin, that photo doesn’t look right. Even if that backhoe could lift that weight the dozer would have to be holding down the front of the hoe to keep it on the ground. And I’d hate to see the results if a seal or hose were to blow… I’m just skeptical. Also, whose property are they on because one just doesn’t start making roads. And what did they make this road out of, looks like mostly rock to me; did they bring some dynamite, or haul material in with tri-axles? I’m just having a really hard time with that pic of the backhoe. I’ve spent a fair amount of time operating same and that pic is soooo far removed from what I know a “backhoe” is capable of. | ||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 540 Registered: 07-2002 |
That picture doesn't look right... but how else did they get a photo of and upside-down D90 with the roof showing? They had to lift it up in the air at some point to get the photo. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 461 Registered: 05-2002 |
Dan, Aw jeez. You actually thought you offended me? Please give yourself less credit. It takes a hell of a lot more that erroneous statements to offend me. I was simply trying to set you on the straight and narrow. I cannot vouch for the validity of the picture, but the scenario and photos make perfect and realistic sense to me. If I rolled my Defender I would want it upright ASAP. So would my insurance company. I would guess that my insurance company would also reimburse me for the $200 bucks it may have cost to get the vehicle out since they do not total a vehicle until it is on an impound lot. "Even if that backhoe could lift that weight the dozer would have to be holding down the front of the hoe to keep it on the ground. And I’d hate to see the results if a seal or hose were to blow… I’m just skeptical." What planet are you getting your info from? I have never run a backhoe in my life, but I know for a fact that at least some backhoes can lift a Defender with ease. I hate repeating myself, but outriggers are pretty common on most backhoes and cranes. So I am guessing that you have somehow figured in your mind that a person with Photochop and a hell of a lot of time went out and made these pics? Why? There are so many more dramatic and interesting things to fake that a rolled Defender. To me it seems so begnign that it would be illogical to assume it is a fake. | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2386 Registered: 04-2002 |
Just playing devil's advocate here R.B. but given all the other cool stuff photoshop can do I wouldn't put it past it to be able to flip a picture of an upright d90 upside down  | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 768 Registered: 09-2002 |
I like the D-90 guy that rolled backwards trying to climb the 45 degree hill. | ||
| Dan Watson (Dwatson) New Member Username: Dwatson Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2003 |
Well Curtis I just assumed that for you to reply to my post in the manner you did I either said something to piss you off or you’re just a condescending prick. So now I know I didn’t piss you off… Don’t really know what your problem is, besides the prick part, I never had any dealing with you before this thread, the post wasn’t directed toward you, and I simply stated that the photo depicts something I don’t feel can be done. Still feel that way, see I have experience using these machines and any one I’ve ever used just couldn’t lift that rig, couldn’t even come close. I also talked to the service manger at the local Case dealer. He’s worked in the mines and has experience with industrial type hoes, and he said the same thing. That that lift would be all but impossible for a wheeled backhoe, especially with hoe extended. A track hoe yes, but that’s not what is shown in the pic. A lot of other aspects of the story don’t seem right, making the road, a thousand rounds of ammo, the nonchalant way the story is told, the lack of more pics, the fact the picture is blurred where the chain attaches to the hoe and by the right headlight. Like it has been pasted in and then blurred to make it appear behind the rock. Look, I just stated I thought the story was bogus, that’s all. I may very well be wrong, it really doesn’t matter and this is getting old. Got to say though it’s been a pleasure corresponding with you Curtis, though it would be more so if you knew what the hell you were talking about through experience and not what you’ve read somewhere. Case in point, a contractor isn’t going to show up with a dozer and backhoe for a $200 job. | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 381 Registered: 02-2002 |
What you can't see in the picture on that site, is my truck, which was there too. I had a hold of his door handle with my phantom winch.  My wife is out of town, and it's down to PhotoChop or porn. Hmmm... see you later! e | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 462 Registered: 05-2002 |
Ok Dan, I am a condescending prick. Whatever works for you. I just call it like it is. The thing I can't figure out is this: Why would someone go through all that trouble with Photochop just to make themselves look stupid. Maybe it is just me, but if I was going to write a story and make some fake pics, I would at least make it a good story. If I rolled my rig under those circumstances I certainly would not brag about it - much less make up a story and pics about how much of a dumbass I am. Now as far as your friend who works at a case dealer and worked in the mines...and as far as your vast experience: I think this is all BS on your part. I get the impression that you maybe rented a backhoe to dig a fencepost hole in your backyard or something. True or not I don't care, but you leave a lot of suspicious claims that seem to defy reality. You talk of "wheeled backhoes", but most medium or heavy duty backhoes have outriggers (3rd time I have said this). The outriggers lift the hoe off the ground. The wheels are not a factor and the hoe can lift a much more. You obviously have internet access. Do a search online and find out lifting capacities for yourself. I am not making this shit up, and almost all companies underrate thier equipment capabilities. "Got to say though it’s been a pleasure corresponding with you Curtis, though it would be more so if you knew what the hell you were talking about through experience and not what you’ve read somewhere. Case in point, a contractor isn’t going to show up with a dozer and backhoe for a $200 job." The first part simply illuminates your dishonest tendencies. The second: you don't know me or my experiences. I simply stated I had never run a backhoe. I certainly never gave you my credentials. You gave yours and I think they are highly questionable. However, I will say you are right on the 3rd. The $200 was just for the backhoe. May have been $600 with the dozer added. Who cares? I have seen plenty of vehicles extracted here in Utah at up to $2000 a pull. Hell, I had to have my Rover towed from Moab to SLC with rental car and hotel paid for by insurance. Not sure what it cost, but I will bet that was at least $2K. Have a great weekend Curtis | ||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 98 Registered: 09-2002 |
Damn you guys get Testy. A ter-a-mite has outriggers as you call it. I am not sure what you call them as I am not a back-hoe operator, but outriggers sounds fine to me. I do have to agree that if a hydraulic line broke you would have a mess, but if your rover was in a hole what choice do you have? I have run machinery for more than post holes and would have to say from my limited knowledge that yes a backhoe could lift a 3500lb vehicle. You can't see the front of the hoe so I would assume the dozer is holding it down. I would think that a track hoe would be more suitable, but who knows why they did it this way. I do think the guy does seem big by comparison, and I can't believe they didn't show all his friends laughing at him. Verdict who knows if it is real or not, could go either way as far as I am concerned. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 463 Registered: 05-2002 |
Aaron, LOL - we do get testy around here. Obviously I can include myself. This board is one giant BS meter. Curtis | ||
| Richard Dekkard (Richard_dekkard) New Member Username: Richard_dekkard Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2003 |
defender = 3500lb???? uhhh.. so then a disco has another 1000 lbs of what? alluminum and glass....? Im gonna guess a defender is more like 4300lbs | ||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 99 Registered: 09-2002 |
1990 RR is 4300 lbs. I think you are think GVWR with gas two passengers and luggage if that the case then you would be right. | ||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 100 Registered: 09-2002 |
oh yeah and 10in of wheel base mor than a 90 | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 466 Registered: 05-2002 |
Aaron is on the money. A soft top is 3560Lbs. and the hard top is 3913Lbs. I am sure loaded he may have had 300Lbs of extra stuff. Still - it is easily within reach of most backhoes. It sure seems like we get a lot of people around here that aren't willing to do the 30 seconds of research it takes to get basic specs | ||
| Dan Watson (Dwatson) New Member Username: Dwatson Post Number: 27 Registered: 02-2003 |
Gee Curtis, can’t you give us poor saps a break, we can’t all be as smart as you. And you do such through research…to bad you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. A hoe has two working parts, the backhoe and the loader. The backhoe is for digging and digging only. In fact some of the newer models have a warning stamped on them that reads something like this, “WARNING This attachment is not to be used for lifting heavy objects. Doing so could lead to serious injury or death”. Once more, the backhoe is to be used for digging only. The loader is used for loading and as such has a rated lifting capacity, but I’m sure you already knew this being the genius you are…. or maybe not. “As an example, a Volvo medium duty D4D has a lifting capacity of 7,619 Lbs.(3,456 Kg). These rigs obtain these capacities by the strategic use of outriggers. There are many industrial backhoes on the market that will easily triple the weight of a Disco in lifting capacity”. If you’ll go back to the site that you got this info from, http://www2.volvo.com/constructionequipment/na/en-us/products/backhoeloaders/BL70/BL70+specifications.htm and read CLOSLY you will see that these specs apply to the loader. That’s the big bucket thing on the front. | ||
| Mike Haun (Redrx7) New Member Username: Redrx7 Post Number: 33 Registered: 04-2003 |
I do not mean to get into this conversation, but this sentance made me spit up my drink: "That’s the big bucket thing on the front" LOL! Again, not taking sides nor getting involved, just wanted to share that my nose hurts now with pop coming out of it. Mike | ||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 103 Registered: 09-2002 |
Did Dan just quote Curtis, I am starting to get confused here. I thought that was what Curtis said earlier. Dan have you been to the local tractor supply shopping around? HA HA just kidding. Look I have used this sort of equipment, in many instances. I would like to point out again I am not a daily user. You are right lifting is better done with the front, but in this instance if you have no choice do what you have to, and most rental places would rent one to just about anyone with a drivers license. I think the machine could do it. We all know that our Rovers can tow more than the label says. Those ratings are there for your safety. You know like coffee at McDonalds is hot, so don't spill it on youself and sue us. I think that the machine is capable of lifting it. I don't think it would be easy on it, but possible, and again all backhoes have outriggers, not for strength but stability. It takes the tires out of the equation. Talk to a septic company they will tell you the machines capabilities, not the salesman wearing his Khakis and driving his civic. Just because he can sell them and drive them around the lot doesn't mean he knows their realworld capabilities. | ||
| Paul Long (Humveewannabe) New Member Username: Humveewannabe Post Number: 31 Registered: 03-2003 |
OK, here's the specs from my John Deere service manual. I have a JD 400 with a larger than normal hoe. This hoe is used by railroad and military machines. It also is the normal size hoe that mounts on the back of crawler tractors or articulated loaders. 95 Series A backhoe weighs 3378 lbs. less bucket. dig/lifting force 8800 lbs. The smaller hoes listed have the same reach and the same maximum height, they weigh 2850 less bucket. Operating pressures and dig/lift forces are the same. (The 'feet' are called stabilizers) | ||
| Kevin Bridges (Craniac) Member Username: Craniac Post Number: 130 Registered: 02-2003 |
Paul, I was once called out to recover my friends Bobcat from a very deep ditch. When I picked it up the loadcell on the crane I was operating was in the 4000# range (this has been a year or so ago so 4 grand is a ball park-close-but ballpark). Not to argue, but that sounds kinda light for a BH. Was there a typo on the weight? | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2418 Registered: 04-2002 |
Everybody listen to the crane man... take a long look at the pic in his profile and then listen to him... | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 468 Registered: 05-2002 |
Dan, It is late and I am tired after a long day. If you actually knew how to spell or write I could give you a better answer that this, but here goes: First off: you are correct in my error on the lifting capacity. Indeed it does refer to the loader. So besides being able to illiterately point out my own ability to read, who gives a crap? I simply picked a random medium-duty backhoe. I can assure you that there are plenty of backhoes out there that can pick up that rig (the Volvo included). The fact remains that you missed the point entirely. You went and mouthed off that a backhoe could not do that and the only substantial evidence you can provide is that you have: (a) seen and maybe operated a backhoe and (b) Have a friend who worked in the mines and a Case dealership The reality is that beyond the link I gave you, you do not know any more about backhoes than I do. Probably even less since you seem to only have a rudimentary grasp on physics. That is all OK with me though. At least you have proven that you know how to read. This should carry you far in life. The amusement for me still remains in your theorizing that the photos and story are a fake. Regardless of any ineptitude I may have regarding heavy equipment, this truly blows me away. Your delusions regarding the motives of others amaze me. Granted, I may be wrong. The photos may be doctored. However, if they are it was truly a backwards effort in raising self esteem on the part of the artist. BTW - I have had a blast all day telling friends and colleagues I am a "condescending prick". I thought it was funny, but at least a few of them agreed | ||
| Paul Long (Humveewannabe) New Member Username: Humveewannabe Post Number: 32 Registered: 03-2003 |
Kevin, That is the weight for the 95 A Series John Deere 'Hoe' only. The hoe is sold to mount on crawlers, (track machines) or wheel tractors. People incorrectly call a tractor with a backhoe attachment a "backhoe". The tractor weight would be the tractor only. Then add front loader frame, hoe and buckets. There are so many variations of transmissions (mine has an automatic trans. used as a shuttle for going between forward and reverse, and also has a clutch with 4 speed) The service manual I took the info from is the hoe only. That includes the deck you sit on, stabilizers, main boom, crowd boom, and cylinders. No bucket. I used a 12 ton cap. trlr. to bring my machine home. Cool machine for a home owner, but I built my own home from the ground up, so used it 'till all but the grass was planted. Now it has limited use for me, but I'd miss it if I sold it. We have lots of glacier rock in NE PA, so I constantly need a bigger machine. I also have a stoned private road to my place to maintain, so it's justified. Just right for slinging steam engine parts I machine too. | ||
| Matt Morian (Mmoria01) New Member Username: Mmoria01 Post Number: 13 Registered: 03-2003 |
Don’t know much about backhoes, but I clicked on the guy’s link and it’s no good. So backspacing to his domain host, it’s a website development company called NetSuccess in Dallas TX. Googling on the guy’s name found a few hits associated with LR’s and hiking trips. It looks like he lives/lived in Plano, which is just north of Dallas. So I’m guessing he works/worked at this web design company. If you look at their portfolio and services, you see they do print design, logo design, etc…, graphics stuff. So the possibility is there. Maybe in order to submit pics to the wreck web site they had to be a certain size, or he didn’t have a pic showing him, the D90, and the BH all in one, or the BH was blocked by the view of the D90, so he edited the pic a little so the viewer would get a good perspective. Then again I’ve used cheap cameras where the pictures looked like everything was out of proportion. -Matt | ||
| Kevin Bridges (Craniac) Member Username: Craniac Post Number: 131 Registered: 02-2003 |
I thought that sounded kind of light Paul. That clear's that part up, in my mind anyway. I do enjoy a good argument on opinion's though, so I say their is no way that hoe could lift that D-90 unless it was right on top of it. Maybe a 12 foot radius max. | ||
| Mike Hippert (Mikeh) New Member Username: Mikeh Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2003 |
just looking at the Caterpillar website and I found this. http://cmms.cat.com/cmms/servlet/cat.dcs.cmms.servlet.GetModelSummary?classid=40 6&langid=en&rgnid=NACD&view=html&familyid=456 According to Cat the least that this Backhoe can lift is 4600 LBS with the E-Stick Extended all the way(25.75 ft). This is without any Dozer holding it down. So it is possible to lift A D-90 with a Backhoe. Also correct me if I am wrong but if a line were to break the load would drop slowly because the Hydraulic fluid would only be able to come out of the piston so fast. That is why elevators use hydraulics it is much safer. Just my .02 | ||
| Dan Watson (Dwatson) New Member Username: Dwatson Post Number: 28 Registered: 02-2003 |
I don’t dispute the fact that a backhoe can lift a D-90. With the loader no doubt, with the hoe maybe, but not the way depicted in the link provided. That said I could very well be wrong, I’m only going on what I know from experience, that that lift is so far removed from anything I know a backhoe is capable of. With the hoe extended the unit loses so much lifting/digging capacity and becomes so unstable….nope sorry, I’d have to see it to believe it. As for you Curtis, well you’re right, as I’m sure everyone can see my English skills suck. But we can’t all be perfect like you, and at least I’m above making fun of others from behind the safety of a computer screen. This horse is dead. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 469 Registered: 05-2002 |
Dan, The horse is dead, but before he left he said a few last words. Yes, in fact you did dispute the fact that a backhoe can lift a D-90. In fact, you originally said: "The D-90 Tumble Dryer story is BS, no backhole I've ever used would lift that much weight." I dunno Dan, that is pretty clear to me. It was also the statement that you have been running on for a while. I told you wayyyyy back in the beginning that I would be easy on you, but you persisted in trying to support your original position. What other option do I have but to "make fun" of you? The rules of life dictate that if you act like a dumbass you will be treated like a dumbass. It may comfort you a little to know that I have gained this insight with plenty of experience. Matter of fact, I still act like a dumbass more than I would like. Unfortunately for you, this is your turn. What raised my hair is that you keep speaking of "experience", but you give no credible evidence in your opinions that you actually have any. English skills set aside, you simply do not have the knowledge that you claim to have. This makes you worse than a dumbass. It makes you a liar. You can infer what you want from there | ||
| Kevin Howell (Kevinhowell) Member Username: Kevinhowell Post Number: 71 Registered: 02-2003 |
i had dis hoe once; she be all over my d-90. | ||
| Kevin Bridges (Craniac) Member Username: Craniac Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2003 |
Sorry to take up so much space, but to show what I was saying I copied this from the link above(man I feel like an idiot) This is from the biggest BH on the list, the one with 110 HP. If you notice down at the bottom of the page the hoe's capacity at a 4 foot radius drops from 13660# to 4600# when the stick is extended. That is a drastic drop. The radius is a straight line from center pin on the arm to center of load. If the hoe will only lift 4600# at a 4 foot radius I can only imagine what it would lift at say 12 or 13 foot radius.(not much I would imagine) A crane for instance (BT-4792) will lift 9820# with 92 feet of stick at a 16 foot radius but only 825# at a 80 foot radius with 92 feet of boom extended. It's all about radius!!! I say all of that to explain why I think that hoe would not perform the lift, and so I can read Curtis & Dans post,s Dont let the horse die. Dig Depth - Standard 5219 mm / 17.2 ft Dig Depth - E-Stick Extended 6528 mm / 21.5 ft Reach from Swing Pivot - Standard 6604 mm / 21.66 ft Reach from Swing Pivot - E-Stick Retracted 6563 mm / 21.5 ft Reach from Swing Pivot - E-Stick Extended 7868 mm / 25.75 ft Bucket Rotation 169 Degrees / 169 Degrees Bucket Dig Force - Standard 67.6 kN / 15200 lb Bucket Dig Force - E-Stick Retracted 67.4 kN / 15150 lb Bucket Dig Force - E-Stick Extended 67.4 kN / 15150 lb Stick Dig Force - Standard 48 kN / 10800 lb Stick Dig Force - E-Stick Retracted 49.8 kN / 11200 lb Stick Dig Force - E-Stick Extended 34.8 kN / 7830 lb Stick Lift @ 1219 mm (4 ft) - Standard 6145 kg / 13540 lb Stick Lift @ 1219 mm (4 ft) - E-Stick Retracted 6195 kg / 13660 lb Stick Lift @ 1219 mm (4 ft) - E-Stick Extended 2090 kg / 4600 lb Dig Depth - E-Stick Retracted 5182 mm / 17 ft Loading | ||
| Evan Price (The_big_daddy) New Member Username: The_big_daddy Post Number: 35 Registered: 02-2003 |
OK Curtis . You've proved it ! You're a bigger dick than I am . Please send me your address so I can send you the Big Daddy Boxers . | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 471 Registered: 05-2002 |
Kevin: I feel like an idiot as well. I simply can't believe I am still contributing to this thread. Here I go anyways. The backoe in that picture lifted that D-90. There is nothing you can say that can prove otherwise. Likewise, there is nothing I have in my favor except that: (1) We have a scanned film photo of the event (2) We have a dumbass who actually admits to the story (3) There are quite a few backhoes with the stated ability to lift the D90's weight at full extension. It would seem to me that most of the few conspiracy-theory believers would maybe see the light in face of this evidence. The reality is that there is nothing substantial that anyone can provide to prove it did not happen. The best offense is a good defense and that is never more true than when one attempts to prove certain evidence wrong. Now let us look at the characters: Dan is probably an OK guy. I gave him a razzing in the beginning, but he still stuck to his story. He is hell-bent on proving that the event did not happen. He just falls short af anything except hearsay and playing a martyr. Then we have Kevin. I think you and I tangled a while back because you asked for an opinion on a Hummer video and I gave mine. Whatever the case, you just provided more testimony that the D90 can be lifted. Now we have Evan. Dude - I have no idea who you are except for a few meaningless and idle posts with lots of homosexual inuendos. You can rest assured that I do not want any KY coated items sent to my address. As far as you being a dick though: you truly have me outclassed in that area. Your main goal in life seems to be using otherwise good folks oxygen and bandwidth | ||
| Evan Price (The_big_daddy) New Member Username: The_big_daddy Post Number: 36 Registered: 02-2003 |
"What planet are you getting your info from? I have never run a backhoe in my life," Speak of what you know ...Dude- you sound a tad homophobic... comfortable in your own manhood ? By the way ,what's your favorite watch? Luv.... | ||
| Eric N (Grnrvr) Senior Member Username: Grnrvr Post Number: 1322 Registered: 02-2002 |
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| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 472 Registered: 05-2002 |
Ah Evan! I see you are still using the homophobe tactic regardless of how tired and worn out it is! You truly are a class act. As far as what I know: I never passed any credentials in this thread, but that does not mean I do not have them. My favorite watch right now is a Skagen. Mainly because it works and is paid for | ||
| Kevin Bridges (Craniac) Member Username: Craniac Post Number: 133 Registered: 02-2003 |
I still say Oswald acted ALONE Curtis, We never tangled over a video. My hand's are being held high in an act of surrender(please shoot me) and im typing with my nose. Might I end with....... Whatever!!!!! I still reserve the right to post to this thread BTY, Curtis, Please look up the meaning of "radius". Obviously I didn't explain that fully |
