| Author | Message | ||
     Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 79 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey there Disco brothers...due to the short notice we didn't have any LR representation on our run....but that's gonna change real soon. Neil & Ho and anyone else are more then welcome to hook up with our group. It's about offroading, not brand-pride. In a world where "offroading" tends to mean parking lots, driveways and an occassional fire road...we all gotta hang together. These pics aren't about "offroad dominance" or anything competitive...their just pics from a nice trail..simple as that. Enjoy. The H2 Forum is open and you could post there....but please don't assualt them...I've been telling some of them about how the Dweb is pretty cool. link:http://www.elcova.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=2826088551&f=5106011751&m=8916018903 | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 80 Registered: 02-2003 |
I'd have just posted them here...but this forum doesn't support large pics. | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) New Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 32 Registered: 10-2002 |
Impressive trucks, impressive trail! | ||
| Chris Marcel (Gumarcel) Senior Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 316 Registered: 11-2002 |
How did the Jeep do compared to the others? | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 766 Registered: 09-2002 |
Hey Steve, Looks like a good trip. When are you planning a run in Colo.? | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 81 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Chris...good question on the Jeep! We had 2 jeeps with us, and as you may know, no two jeeps are exactly alike. One was lifted, had front & rear lockers and was set-up totally primo. That driver was Ron Carver (a Hummer salesman!)...he did very well and his years of experience showed. The other jeep had Dana 40's (or 44's?) front and rear and had limited slip diff's front & rear. So this is what I noticed: the jeeps definitely had more issues with climbing hills. Their short wheelbases may be awesome over rocks and the such...but they definitely pay the price on the hill climbing and rut-crossing. All to often they would have their front wheels way up on top of a cresting rut (where the weight was more directed towards the rear) and the rear wheels were sitting in the troft and slipping. The simplier jeep got stuck several times, had to be winched here and there and could not make some of the nastier climbs. The Jeep with the lockers made the climbs...but did not tank right through it....it had to work. I suppose each vehicle has its strong-points as well as weaknesses. I'm quite certain the Disco's would have joy-gasm's on this trail. I'm hoping Neil will join us in a couple weeks and we'll have some great pics! | ||
| Chris Marcel (Gumarcel) Senior Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 319 Registered: 11-2002 |
joy-gasm...hmmm interesting | ||
| Blake Luse (Muddyrover) Senior Member Username: Muddyrover Post Number: 832 Registered: 02-2002 |
White Slantback H1 (drooling) | ||
| Chris Marcel (Gumarcel) Senior Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 320 Registered: 11-2002 |
That first picture looks funny with all the hummers and a little jeep between em, it looks so small! | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) New Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2002 |
I really thought that Jeep was a Samurai - no sense of scale. | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 82 Registered: 02-2003 |
Okay...enough of this cordial stuff....I DEMAND that Carter or someone with an attitude get on this thread and tell me how Hummers suck and that the trail looked like their driveway. How do you make one of those smiley-faces? The white slant-back belonged to a guy named Pres....he's in a wheelchair and has the H1 totally decked out with hand controls!!!! We had one pic where a Samurai did pull up and park next to us....it's bizarre how small they are as compared. I'm putting together another video. Any music suggestions? I was also thinking of doing one of those comparison things....but this time I'll flash "Fiat....MG.....I don't think so!•••••• suggestions for either music or humor? When Neil & I go out, we're gonna do one of those scenes where be each stop and pass some Grey Poupon between rigs. Just want to keep it funny. "Joy-gasm"....from the movie The Mask, Jim Carrey. | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 83 Registered: 02-2003 |
can someone PLEASE tell me why any word with the letter A and N and Y are turned into red dots????????? | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2394 Registered: 04-2002 |
Kyle doesn't like the common abreviation for transmision 'T x R x A x N x Y' so is has been banned, sometimes the word 'any' takes the hit to when it is by smiley faces and exclamation points (among other things) | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2395 Registered: 04-2002 |
Should have read the whole post.... didn't notice you called me out. Ok heres something for you: Where are the pics of the H2s going up that big ledge the H1s are tackling at the very begining of the pics??? Did you guys take a bypass or something  . A smiley face is easy just type in a ':' and a ')' and bam: , if you want some of the crazier ones look through the 'help/instructions' at the very bottom of the page here. As for music go with 'Voodoo Chile' (the Stevie Ray Vaughan version). | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2396 Registered: 04-2002 |
oh yeah, five words: "Xterra, I don't think so!!" "One_Bad_Rover I don't think so" might work as well. | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 84 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Cartmeister, No...the H2's did not take a bypass on that first hill. Just that nobody took any pics of them...but you'll see lots of video on that exact hill soon enough. Given that the H1's seemed to be near bottoming out...you'd think we'd have issues, but the 2's just went right up it! No belly contact at all. What is also interesting was one particular H2 that was at the steepest part and one of the front tires started to spin: No sooner then 1/2 a revolution and the traction control grabbed it and forced the opposing tire to continue turning. You can barely notice it, but if you know what to look for it's plain as day. Very cool! I'm hoping to get Ho and Neil on that same trail in a few weeks...it'll be great to throw some variety at that trail! I hear Xterra's are quite capable, besides, I wanna play with the extreme humor and completley avoid bashing...that's why I suggest brands that don't even make 4x's (got it!) | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 85 Registered: 02-2003 |
•••••• •••••• •••••• •••••• •••••• Jeepers with their •••••• •••••• •••••• attitude came •••••• by and tried to ruin the •••••• •••••• •••••• day! But we just told them to •••••• •••••• •••••• their •••••• •••••• •••••• and we parted ways. | ||
| Chris Marcel (Gumarcel) Senior Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 324 Registered: 11-2002 |
wow | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 86 Registered: 02-2003 |
.....it's just a play on the word •••••• | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2406 Registered: 04-2002 |
Hey Steve what kind of camera are you using for those videos of yours?? The quality is much better than most that you see floating around the web. | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 56 Registered: 11-2002 |
Steve where is this trail? Ron | ||
| John Moore (Jmoore) Senior Member Username: Jmoore Post Number: 618 Registered: 10-2002 |
HEY! Don't make fun of MG's! They kick ass, I could drive mine right under your silly hummer... -John | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Senior Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1516 Registered: 02-2002 |
Very nice, thanks for sharing. | ||
| John Moore (Jmoore) Senior Member Username: Jmoore Post Number: 620 Registered: 10-2002 |
Here comes a bad ass MG...  | ||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 547 Registered: 07-2002 |
Aren't there several pages of photos from that same trail on the EE web site? Lots of Rovers doing the same stuff. | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 87 Registered: 02-2003 |
Wow....suddenly this thread is an issue... My video camera is just a typical JVC video camera, it cost about $600 and at the time was the hot new ticket cause it was a "Mini DV"....perhaps the digital video is what gives it quality...or my brother's touch in editing. The low-res version is probably what you're seeing....you should have seen when we had the hi-res version up...that was great! Are you referring to my video or the pics? The pics are just out of a Canon ELPH with a mere 2.0 megapixels. The trail is up in the San Bernardino Mountains...on the westward end near Lake Silverwood. It's called the 2N17X, and then we ran it up towards Lake Arrowhead and picked up the 3N34 as a wind-down trail. I'm quite certain that almost any 4x4 could run this trail without problem. There are, however, sections that are quite difficult, but contain safe 'round-abouts' so that everyone can make it. There was a Jeep that was raised, had large tires and a rear-locker...and he could only make it 1/2 way up the nasty part of one section. As for the MG...I was certain that would be a brand that never made a 4x4....but now I've seen everything! | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2410 Registered: 04-2002 |
I was talking about the video. I don't know much about them, I was just curious because the quality is much better than most of the clip videos you see posted on all the offroad boards. Thought you might be using some new fangled deal straight from japan or something | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 88 Registered: 02-2003 |
Okay Carter....you got me. We were out offroading near Death Valley and came across what could only be the crashed remains of an alien space-craft. We were able to salvage and reverse-engineer some of their technology. If you think the video camera is hot...you gotta check out the licorice dispenser!!!! | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2417 Registered: 04-2002 |
sweet | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 717 Registered: 09-2002 |
Ron L, this is 2N33/2N17X (a.k.a. Pilot Rock trail) near Silverwood Lake in San Bernardino Mountains. I've been trying to sort out who and how climbed the hill at the back of this photo, but didn't quite get it. The right-most line on this hill is off limits now, so you either have to look the rollover in the face (if you drive a Disco or D90), or use 2N33 to get around the whole hill. Other than that, it must be the ugliest trail in these mountains, scenery-wise. peter | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 89 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Peter, There is a nice moderate-level 'round-about' to avoid the big-nasty and going up the center. Also....the left side used to be closed, but when we were there it was open. Hummers go right up it, including H2's. I'm quite certain a Disco or D90 can make the left-side climb too, but only with bigger tires and some form of rear-locker...course, there's always the winch. The center can be attempted without fear of a rollover...the jeep made it about 1/2 way up, the H2 about 2/3's...but there is a rut the size of a trash-can beyond that: H1 only! I wouldn't say it's ugly...nice view of the lake. Heck...it beats the office anyday! | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 90 Registered: 02-2003 |
Oh okay....checked out that pic. You can just barely make-out the "round-about" to the right side: it jibes to the right and then comes up, it's steep, slippery and everybody went right up it too.••••• disco/D90 would run right up it too. The 3 main channels can be seen on the front side. The right channel is closed, the center is most-nasty and the left-side was closed, but now appears to be without stakes and thusly is open. Send me your email and I'll invite you to our events! We're running this trail again on May 24th! Join us....but bring your own Grey Poupon! | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 723 Registered: 09-2002 |
Steve, i have _very bad_ memories of that hill. I've driven up it a few times, the last time stalled my engine 20ft from the top, and rolled all the way back with no power steering or brakes. the right-most line is the most deceiving. it is soft, so you can't build up any momentum, and near the top there's a 45-degree ledge. And it is sort of at an angle, so you'll have a wheel up in the air, unless you have a foot or so of downtravel. More of adrenaline-pusher is seeing the oil pressure hit solid zero, since the pickup goes dry there. So, the "roundabout" is by no means a cakewalk. Mind it, I was in a vehicle with 109" of wheelbase. Somehow, a nearly stock Chevy 4x4 pickup made it up the middle line with no drama at all. peter | ||
| Michael Huggins (Mike_h) New Member Username: Mike_h Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2003 |
That's more like a road. Something you can do in a Ford Escort. Where's the challange there. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 727 Registered: 09-2002 |
Michael, this _is_ a road. Most of it you can indeed do in a Ford Escort; it has some "shortcuts" that need more or less flex and/or lockers, bigger trucks have no problems anywhere. There is a couple of obstacles on this trail, both by-passable. The first is a pretty damn tall hill, with a 45-deg ledge near the top. This is where a Disco would've shined - but I know of very few people who tried it in a Disco or D90, and one D90 was rolled down this hill. I have never taken my Disco there and don't plan to. Here's a few photos - near the top, view from the top down. The bypass on this hill is about 3-4 mi long. The next one is Pilot Rock - just a pile of odd-placed rounded granite boulders, with plenty of room close by to drive in a stretch limo. Here's a few takes on this - one, two and three. Aside from that, there are no challenges there. It is more like dune riding - someone beats his truck on a single hill, others drink beers at the bottom (without any regard to a possibility of a vehicle rolling down unimpeded and uncontrolled). peter | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 91 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Guys... Take a look at the pics that are linked to the beginning of this thread. Why are we speculating about this trail when we have lots of pics to prove it. The very beginning of the trail forbids any 2-wheel-drive vehicle from coming up it, as do several other sections. It's a solid 4x4 trail rated by the forest service as "most difficult". The trail does evolve: I've seen pics from only a few years ago showing different things. The center-route is no longer passable by anything less then a way-built-up 4x4: no way in hell a stock anything but H1 is gonna make it up that. The far right side is no problem...but Peter is right about the sharp right....even still...the H2's went right through it without hesitation (or loss of oil pressure). There are plenty of good challenges and it's considered by many as an great trail. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 733 Registered: 09-2002 |
Steve, FS trail rating is somewhat relative. Say, John Bull is rated as "most difficult", same as Pilot Rock trail. But (a) it _is_ much more technical than Pilot Rock, and (b) I've seen a stock Mitsubishi Montero with running boards to make it, and even stock S10. Believe me, that Chevy pickup that drove up the middle line on that hill on 2N17X was bone stock, no lockers, 31" BFG All-Terrains, running boards. I believe an H2 could have made it up middle line, too - there's definitely some pucker factor near the top, where little rigs make it between the sides of the ruts, and an H2 would have to straddle it (and pitch up even more). The oil pressure - LOL, I bet you haven't paid much attention to it. I am yet to see a rig that does not start losing it at 45 degrees up. you should come to Los Coyotes, Steve. There's one obstacle there similar to that hill, a little shorter, a little steeper, called simply "El Hill." peter | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 94 Registered: 02-2003 |
Peter, I've run the trail several times in the last couple of months. Things change and evolve over time as vehicles drive through them.....but I can assure you with all certainty that a stock Mitsubishi Montero OR blazer is NOT going to get past this. We had a Jeep with big tires, raises suspension, lockers, experienced driver who ran the Rubicon try again and again to no avail. And we had one guy not take off his running boards and he got them pretty chewed up. Btw...Pilot rock is along the 2N33, a fireroad rated as "Easy" by the FS. The 2N17X is an alternate route the spurs off at the bottom of 2N33 and re-connect with it just west of Pilot Rock.  | ||
| Swamp Pappy (Swamp_pappy) New Member Username: Swamp_pappy Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2003 |
Steve: Nice photos Steve. I'm seeing more and more H2s on the trail, which is great considering that H2 is still a rather new rig. If I can save enough pennies I might have to have a look at a used H2, but so far the used ones are still out of my low-roller budget. I'd like a D90 and Hummer in the driveway. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 735 Registered: 09-2002 |
Steve, I don't doubt that. In fact, this IS a wheelbase thing - the bigger tires you have with a given wheelbase, and the more lift, the less likely you are to get past that spot. This is the exact spot I referred to where the larger rigs have to straddle both ruts. The Mitsu and S10 - that was on John Bull. I mentioned it as an example of another trail close by, rated as Most Difficult by FS, but where not too burly vehicles had reasonable success. BTW, it is a bitch to do in an H2, esp. when there's snow on it. I'm almost always game for it, because I like the scenery. peter | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 96 Registered: 02-2003 |
Peter, It's all good, I don't mean to be challenging....especially since I'm an off-brand to this swell forum. Course....I DO have DiscoWeb stickers...but still. The center run on the 2N17X is almost ridiculous. I can personally attest to the fact that the jeep that tried to make it up did some serious digging, increased rutting and further eroded that thing into a virtually unpassable route. The ruts are nearly 3' deep at some points! So many vehicles have passed through that area having problems that it has now eroded to the point where there is simply a channel that you try to travel upwards through....when in the channel...the roof of the vehicle is nearly level with the surrounding ground on each side. Truly, it's an environmental catastrophy. I've yet to personally be on the John Bull...but my buddy Carey has and his H2 did it just fine. The H2 is NOT the greatest gift to the offroad world...hardly! BUT it does repeatedly surprise the heck out of people who check it out, even the hardcore guys who scoffed at it. My own thought: take a Range Rover, cut the nose shorter and the tail shorter, raise it a bit and put on some bigger fat tires: you've basically got an H2 (minus the oil leaks and electrical problems The front-end is IFS, but you'd be very surprised how the suspension modifications have really given it some performance. Sure, it has toothpicks for tie-rods and there's room for improvement....but heck...it's all good fun. IMHO, they blew it on the wheelbase and really could have provided a bit more clearance under the chassis. Sure, you could somehow work a Dana axle onto the front...but with the wheelbase and width....it'll NEVER be a rockcrawler or do well with being nimble! | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 97 Registered: 02-2003 |
Sad but true....the "trench" created by offroaders was once level with the ground surrounding it...now there is merely a channel with which to attempt to climb and move upwards through.  | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 270 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm with Peter. I think Steve is a candidate for Glamis. He's interested in Big steep hills devoid of scenery. There are obviously break over issues on pilot rock and that jeep you described struggling was probably just driver error. There's a lot of that sort of thing in BB/LA. Peter worked his brother's stock grand cherokee on full psi street tires through a rock garden in Big Bear without too much difficulty and I still had to spend 10 minutes convincing the flexy wrangler on 35" M/Ts behind us that he could do it on the right line. He tried his best to fail but I managed to coach him through it. Again, I'm less than interested in erosion contests and "how-to-get-your-front-tire-on-a-stump". Go back and do John Bull or Deep Springs/The Rock Garden. Those trails aren't anything you shouldn't be able to do (even in muddy conditions) and offer a lot more of an experience than the pics you've posted. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 737 Registered: 09-2002 |
Damn that center route became ugly... real ugly. OTOH, it became easier to back down, when your power steering quit That looks similar to the top of the Left Turn Hill in Los Coyotes. Another place I hate! Steve, you should try White Mtn. or Lightning Peak trails near BB. They are not like John Bull or Holcomb Creek, some places are just steep. peter | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) New Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2002 |
It's not just trucks that are digging those ruts. We've had some very heavy rain the last few months (a Good Thing otherwise.) There are Easy-rated roads that suddenly turn Intermediate, and Intermediate ones that become Most Difficult, thanks to new water channels in the steep places. Even nice, pleasant 3N34 has acquired a big pond with an axle-bashing boulder in the middle. | ||
| Swamp Pappy (Swamp_pappy) New Member Username: Swamp_pappy Post Number: 9 Registered: 05-2003 |
Don't sweat this brand competition nonsense. Internet trash talking is for geeks and nerds - drive what you got with pride and let's all roll like some bad sons of .... Hummer is American and any one don't like American rigs can kiss my f***ing ass. I'm OK with Land Rover due to it being from the UK and the Brits always sit well with me. People need to cut the sheeyt and go on with wheeling. None of us are driving Iraqi rigs so who gives a damn. Bring what you got and let's go boys. Only reason I don't get an H2 is cause I'd probably have to sell my home and live in the damn thing. Otherwise I like that action too. Hell I drive a Chevy and I wheel with Fords and it never made me any worse for it. God Bless Us All. | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 835 Registered: 09-2002 |
Hey Swamp....go ahead and get the H2 cause you can't drive the house but you can live in the truck. | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 107 Registered: 02-2003 |
Wow...suddenly this thread is revived... Jack...."yes sir!!"..I'll do as instructed and prescribed...but why do I have the feeling I need to be given a "time-out" and left in the corner for having done something bad? It wasn't pilot-rock, it was the "Big-nasty" on the 2N17X, The center channel has a rut the depth of nearly 3 feet. The jeep couldn't even get close to it anyways. Driver error...nope: that guy ran the Rubicon and really knows his stuff. It was just bad timing: front tires up on top of loose surface, rear ties in a deep rut...just unfortunate terrain not suited to his beat. An LR would likely have done better...but without a lift, lockers and great tires....it's not gonna happen. 2 things: give me some credit and trust me on this one. Christopher...great point. Give me a shout at Homeinsulation@aol.com and I'll put you on my offroad club email list....you gotta join us!! Swampy....despite what I anticipated, I've only had a warm reception on this forum. I suspected Carter would make me his personal bitch for incessant teasing and harassment...but no! Your thoughts are great and I'm with ya 100% In a world where we're losing trails and acres by the day...we've all gotta stick together. But NOT the Lexus offroaders...they're posers!! Btw....All you guys are wrong about the H2 being a glorified Tahoe. Dead wrong! It's a glorified Yukon!!! | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 108 Registered: 02-2003 |
oh yeah....good point Brian...AND you can write-off the H2 as well! Where've you been dude??? | ||
| Swamp Pappy (Swamp_pappy) New Member Username: Swamp_pappy Post Number: 10 Registered: 05-2003 |
I gave the once over on a H2 and Tahoe parked next to each other - no where near being the same rig. The H2 has better approach & depart angles. 35 rolling stock and better ground clearance on the H2. I read [yes, I can read - though I'm not much on fancy books and learning stuff] that the H2 has a locking rear diff and traction control too. Last time I recall, the Tahoe/Yukon doesn't have any of that stuff. They don't seem to similar to me. I'll be back later - I'm off for another case of beer. | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 838 Registered: 09-2002 |
Hey Steve, I have been trying to round up some of your cronies for a trail run. Got another one running this sunday and I posted in the H2 website. So far no takers. brian | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2483 Registered: 04-2002 |
LOL, watch out Steve you might not be as safe as you think you are..... I've got the REAL photoshop program now (no more paint ) so watch out for what pics you decide to post | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 840 Registered: 09-2002 |
Lets see some stuff Carter. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 739 Registered: 09-2002 |
Steve, there's nothing wrong with an H2 being based on the Tahoe or Yukon. Decent trucks to begin with - hope GM did away with 10-bolts in the rear, it's been the achilles heel of K5s forever. The plastic and chrome shit is what gives an H2 that ghetto look, but nothing a black powdercoating job could not hide. Speaking of how different an H2 is from a mall-crawler Tahoe... Sure, a Tahoe ain't got the 35s and rear locker, but something tells me that a thorough straight-axle conversion of a Tahoe with 35s and lockers will still be about 20 grand under the H2. Everyone picks his poison | ||
| Daniel Covaciu (Danielcovaciu) Member Username: Danielcovaciu Post Number: 164 Registered: 10-2002 |
Steve, the trail in your pics is way easy. My drivway looks alot like that center trench you keep talking about. I have to go up and down something like that to get to work and back every day. When you have some real wheelin pics let us all know. Dan | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2488 Registered: 04-2002 |
he he, I haven't had time to mess with it much with finals and all so I don't really have anything ready for display yet Brian but DAMN THAT IS A COMPLICATED PROGRAM!!! | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 218 Registered: 01-2003 |
I thought those tahoes with the z-71 offroad package can get a rear locker and cdl as an option? Also watch those lexus trucks, I have seen one of those fjz80/rx470 things out here in utah run some pretty hard stuff. Factory sfa and sfr with factory cdl and front and rear lockers. He had 33" tires, snorkle, arb w/winch, and lots of good stuff on it. Nice truck, so a lexus could kick a hummers ass. hehe. | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior Member Username: Carter Post Number: 2491 Registered: 04-2002 |
They are part time 4wd so they wouldn't use a cdl. You can get an LSD in the rear but I realy don't think a locker is an option. | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 110 Registered: 02-2003 |
tell me about it....I'm teaching myself Premiere 6.5, it's a video editing program. DAN!!!...enough said. I was just kidding around with the H2 and the Yukon bit. You get LOTS of people calling the H2 a glorified suburban, tahoe, etc. The H2 does start off with the similar 800-series planform, but the frame is then modified, reinforced, beefed-up and a different front-end it put on it. I asked one of the designers how he would respond to such a question....he rambled on and on and on about how different they are. Just to site a few things: we have a rear electronic locker, same traction control system as the RR, an alternate traction control setting, a Bosch transfer case, reduced throttle articulation when put in 4-Low, the height control adjustment and many of beef-ups to handle the significant loads that would otherwise ruin a Tahoe. Is it the greatest thing to hit the offroad market? HELL NO!! BUT...a decked-out Tahoe Denali is only about $3K less...and doesn't have these features. The H2 is less then the RR, G-box, Porsche, top-of-the-line Lexus, BMW...and is about the same as the Escalade and Navigator. Am I happy with it, YES. Is it a good value, it seems so. Is it fun, interesting and different...yep. And that's about all I have to say about that. I didn't design it, build it, engineer it or do anything to take more pride then to have simply laid out some cash for it. It's just a toy: absolutely nothing more. I consider it a 'ticket to ride the offroad highway'. But Carter is right!! It sucks ass: hot babes are drawn towards it! Oh yeah...what it needs: front electronic locker, a bit more clearance, a bit shorter wheelbase and a diesel option. The problem with the wheelbase is simple. They want to keep the Hummer-style sharp approach/departure angles, which leaves them only the area between axles. They moved the passenger compartment as far forwards as possible, but in order to maintain a decent rear seating AND cargo area....the length just had to be. NOW...if they got rid of the back bench and shortened the wheelbase....THAT would prove interesting, but then you'd be in an entirely different class next to the Rubiclown. The Disco has it "going on" pretty seriously. The only shortcomings I see is the exteneded butt which steals departure angle, a bit of a long nose, the need for more clearance, a front-locker and some bigger tires. Again..shorten further the wheelbase and WOW! | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 219 Registered: 01-2003 |
The disco also needs a factory CDL and a locker option front and rear. But give it to use Americans and a soccer mom will engage it while sipping latte and wreck, sue LR and it would be all over. I respect GM for being willing to build a truck with offroad use in mind. Maybe it will encourage LR to bring back the defender or toyota to bring back the sfa land cruiser, or nissian to bring the patrol here to the US. Maybe a retro classic ford bronco or jeep builds a shared platform of the g-wagon; 4 door rubicon? Steve, how do you people in CA get to even wheel? Aren't there granola eating activists laying chained at the bottom of those rutted/eroded hills to prevent you guys from driving those "evil" suv's offroad? | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 741 Registered: 09-2002 |
Andy, the granola-eating activists self-regulate: they just rarely make it to where a truck can take you. Steve, Bosch transfer case? Since when Bosch started making gears? I bet it is Borg Warner. Anyhow, yes, H2 has the same traction control as RR (and Disco-2), the [dis]advantages of which have been beat to death on every land rover list. Again, there ain't nothing wrong to be a glorified Suburban, or Tahoe. peter | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) New Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2002 |
Toyota at least has shown a concept retro Land Cruiser. See http://www.rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/03january/fj_cruiser.asp. About the activists, I'm with Peter - there's no way they could get close enough to the trails here to cause any trouble. I was in Sierra Club for a while up here, and we had a guy in our group who wanted to ban all motorized vehicles in the forest altogether. It was this sort of fanaticism that was one of the reasons I'm no longer a member of the SC. And I'd guess I was the only person who ever drove a Land Rover to our Sierra Club meetings. | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 843 Registered: 09-2002 |
Christopher, "And I'd guess I was the only person who ever drove a Land Rover to our Sierra Club meetings." That is too funny. | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 223 Registered: 01-2003 |
Christopher- I used to belong to Southern Utah Wilderness Allience or SUWA. I believed in there ideas to protect southern utah from development, until they started to go after wheelers and mountain bikers for "abusing" the land. I stopped giving money when they started going in that direction. Those california protesters wind powered cars can't get them to the trail head? I think the laws you guys get for emissions and the legislation that mandates ZEV's is way over the top and unrealistic. I was curious if you had protestors for off roading too? | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 224 Registered: 01-2003 |
Also I thought hummer owners had hollywood actors (americas greatest resource) equating those trucks to terrorists? You'd think they would chain themselves to trailheads ... | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 371 Registered: 08-2002 |
Nothin' retro about that Toy thing, looks mod to me. | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 111 Registered: 02-2003 |
Let me get this straight....the Disco doesn't come with a CDL??? Is that to say that if one tire gets in the air...all power is lost? NO WAY! | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 228 Registered: 01-2003 |
Well, yes and no; the d1 (94-99) had the cdl. Also 99 D2's had a cdl, or could be retrofit to actuate the cdl. The current or d2 00-02 and d2a 03-? have a traction control system, the ETC thingy that is suppose to be better than having a cdl in the first place. Being the fact I have D1 I couldn't say if it is better or not, but some here feel the last good disco was built in 99. Others believe that the ETC is even better than having a cdl. The cdl was probably taken away from us here in the USA because of improper use of the old one and resultant warrenty issues. My CDL in my truck was frozen because of lack of use when I got it. Anywhere else in the world you can still purchase the discovery new with the cdl transfer case, but not in the US. The ETC is suppose to stop power loss and act like a LSD by use of the brakes, speed sensors at the wheels, and throttle control, the hill descent controller works on this method too. Don't worry will get IFS just like the humoe 2 soon. | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 114 Registered: 02-2003 |
Lots of people scoff at the TCS....but I've played with it extensively. I intentionally left the locker off and went up nasty hills: the display continually read "Traction Active" to indicate it was doing it's thing. The absolute most important thing (I've found) is not to change the RPM too much: don't gas it or let off. You can let off a bit...but you want to keep things stable: it would seem the sensors can better detect the inconsitency between traction and slippage better this way. As I see it....(changing the subject a bit to illustrate a point)...if your driving a sport car fast around a bend and lose/break traction....your in trouble and less likely to recover then if you had traction and needed to slow down. Well...even though the TCS does limit slippage...you've already slipped a bit and jarred the vehicle to some degree. I find the tank-like turning seems better. Although some would argue that a little slippage may move dirt and find traction...it's all theory and opinion I suppose. My experience: I lock the t-case, go into 4-low and punch up the rear locker. The front-end has the TCS still and thus far I've climbed some hills that I truly thought were too steep and nasty to climb. Btw....the IFS on the H2 is pretty darn cool...you'd be very surprised just how much articulation you can get out of it...perhaps that's why they the vehicle some good width? I'm happy with it..but my eye is on anything new and interesting coming out just as well. | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) New Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2002 |
I've owned both a D1 and a D2. Subjectively, since I've driven them both on the same trails, CDL and traction control feel about the same in terms of how well the vehicle climbs and gets through loose surfaces. Steering is stiff and weird with CDL, but it's disturbing to feel a wheel spin for a moment before the TC catches it. I'd rather have both, actually. The more control, the merrier. | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 230 Registered: 01-2003 |
I think Christopher said it best, "...I'd rather have both, actually. The more control, the merrier." I have heard the same with the ETC system, the less change in rpm, or slippage the better it works. I think alot of d2 owners on this board have converted to a cdl. Some its a matter of adding a linkage, others its swapping a center diff. A heated debate area is the CDL vs ETC issue. The thing I think is cool is the active cornering system on the newer discoverys and rr3's. An active shock pushes the sway bar the opposite direction of vehicle yaw to right the truck, forces the truck to articulate. Problem is gizmo's can break, something to say about being simplier. | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 116 Registered: 02-2003 |
Yeah...the H2 gives you all the options: locker or TCS, and the TCS has a modifiable setting too. Our active cornering consists of the air suspension pushing up the sagging side. I guess in different situations each has some advantage....but I'll tell ya this: Andy's right on the mark when he comments on the gizmo's breaking...I NEVER plan to own this thing or any sophisticated 4x4 outside of a complete warranty plan! I can't wait to go wheeling with some of the Disco folks I've met on this board. I've driven the H2....so screw that pig: I'm gonna push the first disco owner I can find into the seat of the H2 (like I'm doing him a favor) and take his Disco for a spin on the trail!!! If I like it enough maybe I'll just keep on driving... | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 861 Registered: 09-2002 |
Steve, You can take mine. | ||
| Neil Lokuge (Neil) New Member Username: Neil Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2003 |
Your on Steve I'll be there with da big boys on the 31st. Okay, my lone DII sans center diff lock praying for the the ETC to do its stuff....mama | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 120 Registered: 02-2003 |
Neil...your on! Too bad you can't make the 24th run...THAT is the bestest of the best trails! Brian...very generous offer....but I was kinda hoping to get a running rig.. | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 866 Registered: 09-2002 |
hehe | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 867 Registered: 09-2002 |
btw....you need to look at my new profile and the "35 are on the truck" thread | ||
| Stacey R Abend (Srafj40) Member Username: Srafj40 Post Number: 81 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hey Steve do you know this guy? hehe. http://www.whiteknight.ca/hum.mpeg Stacey | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 121 Registered: 02-2003 |
I don't know the guy, but I've seen this video before: lots of controversy....some say it was intentional, others say it was an accident. I honestly don't know. If you watch the video you can clearly see the guy lifting the vehicle, applying more lift..and even when it's starting to get away from him he's still lifting....then he just does some braking towards the end but doesn't seem freaked out in the least. It would seem deliberate... ....but so too are many when playing poker! I've heard rumors in both directions on this video. Just don't know. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 755 Registered: 09-2002 |
Steve, yesterday I found a trail that I think is White Mountain. If that's it, it is more of a mojo kinda thing - you wouldn't want to turn around at the top with a high c.g. 35" tires with lots of articulation make the drive up very easy. In a couple of spots an H2 would have to acquire some pinstriping, however. peter | ||
| Steve R (Barton) Member Username: Barton Post Number: 124 Registered: 02-2003 |
That's why there are H1's & H2's: to clear a nice path for you guys. Either way....we usually have some trimmers/cutters with us. Not that I haven't thrashed my paint already. White Mountain is pretty much north of Big Bear with a touch of west dialed in. If you were closer towards Arrowhead it may have been Luna Mountain that you were on. White Mountain is rated Most difficult while Luna is rated More difficult. There's lot of good trails to explore up there! | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 757 Registered: 09-2002 |
I looked at the photos at the EE site, and it most likely was not the White Mountain, and both trails I took going up were unmarked. Will have the photos developed and posted. This mountain was almost straight North of BB Lake, I'd guess about at the same longitude as the Discovery Center. When you look from the top of the mountain to Mt.Gorgonio, Delamar Peak is a little to the right of the line of sight, about 1/2 mi. The trail spurred off 3N10. BTW, the 2N06 - that goes from 2N10 (near Snow Summit) all the way down to Santa Ana river, is an awesome sight-seeing trail. It has a pretty drop-off on the side, only comparable to Engineer Pass trail in Colorado, so it is closed all winter (for a good reason). As you drive along, between the top and the river bed, you lose about 2000 ft. peter |
