| Author | Message | ||
     Daniel Covaciu (Danielcovaciu) Member Username: Danielcovaciu Post Number: 215 Registered: 10-2002 |
Man, just when these threads get fun the highger powers cut us off. And right when I'm all worked up with a good comeback post. I was gonna say..... Art said: "Do the math: 230 grains is twice the normal 9mm load of 115 grains. A lot more energy hitting the target! " Cor-bon 9mm+P 115gr JHP 1350fps 466 ft/lbs Cor-bon .45ACP+P 230gr JHP 950fps 461ft/lbs Note that that .45 loading is a +P and its about as hot as you can get. Still the 9mm has 5 ft/lbs of ENERGY more. I'm not saying the 9mm is better but if your gonna talk about energy at least get your figures straight. Now momentum is another ball of wax. Dan | ||
| Daniel Covaciu (Danielcovaciu) Member Username: Danielcovaciu Post Number: 216 Registered: 10-2002 |
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| Chris Marcel (Gumarcel) Senior Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 436 Registered: 11-2002 |
Daniel you like that picture eh? | ||
| Stacey R Abend (Srafj40) Member Username: Srafj40 Post Number: 97 Registered: 03-2003 |
Dan, What the.... again | ||
| Art Bitterman (Aardvark) New Member Username: Aardvark Post Number: 15 Registered: 05-2003 |
Dan- Facts acknowledged! I was just going on intuition; something twice as massive has got to be better! Excepting Hummers versus Land Rovers!  AS a gunsmith, I just fix 'em. Have a admiration for John Browning designs (He Who Could Do No Wrong!). I just know in my heart that the 45 ACP is better than a 9mm. But then, confidence in the load or gun is uppermost! | ||
| Stacey R Abend (Srafj40) Member Username: Srafj40 Post Number: 98 Registered: 03-2003 |
Ready, Set Go.......got it. | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 229 Registered: 02-2003 |
00 buckshot | ||
| Daniel Covaciu (Danielcovaciu) Member Username: Danielcovaciu Post Number: 218 Registered: 10-2002 |
000 buckshot Art, understood. Energy is BS anyways. If you look at those numbers i posted on the 9mm and 45 you see that the 45 weights exactly twice as much as the 9mm. You would think that for the 9mm to be as powerfull as the 45 it would need to fly at twice the velocity, right. Off course it dosent, not even close, but it still has more energy. The standard formula for energy puts way to much emphasis on velocity (velocity is squared, bullet weight is not). | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 67 Registered: 09-2002 |
Depending upon where you live (i.e. like me in an apartment complex in an urban area): #4 buck I know that is blasphemy but it cuts back on over-penetration in what is already thin walls. That being said 00 does have a slighty better "one shot" stopping success, but I'll take my chances at 15' with 8 shots in the magazine. | ||
| Art Bitterman (Aardvark) New Member Username: Aardvark Post Number: 16 Registered: 05-2003 |
I use #7 or #8 dove loads in my Mossberg 500 behind the door. No overpentration, and if they do live, the agony of the ER Docs digging all that shot out will be a payback! | ||
| Reed Cotton (Reedcotton) Member Username: Reedcotton Post Number: 97 Registered: 01-2003 |
Most of you energy readings are taken at the muzzle. If your barrel is shorter, like about 3.25 inches in the PT-145, then the hyper pressures from most +P ammo don't start happening. F=ma If you can't develop the velocity (longer barrel) increase the mass. Besides, even then the .45 makes bigger holes. Both Special Ops, and LA SWAT have decided that the 9mm just won't cut it as a tactical round, and are going back to 1911's. Shotguns are fun too! -Reed | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2218 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ray, I like my 590 too, but, it's sad to say, I'm a horrid shot with it, I'm much more confident in hitting something with a .45 than I am a shotgun, even at close range.... odd, eh? -L | ||
| Jess Alvarez (Jester) Member Username: Jester Post Number: 177 Registered: 11-2002 |
Art, Nice plan. I use the 'three strikes' method of protecting my home with my Mossberg 500. Some people say Love is the universal language, but I disagree. I think the 'cha-chuck' of a pump action shot gun being racked is the universal language. The sound in unmistakeable. It says "Get the FUCK out" So, when some spanish-only speaking criminal breaks into your house to take what you worked hard to have, without being in sight, you can give the warning: Cha-chuck (Strike one) My first round is #7, the rest are #1 buck. Reasons are these: Since we live in a litigious society, I want to show that I didnt have intent to kill. But rather that I was brought to it. So, the first round being a #7, is fired at the assailant. (strike two) You win in two ways with this. The first way is that if you hit him, its going to hurt like hell, and if he keeps coming you have your #1 buck. If you miss, and he keeps coming, he is a crazy fucker, and you have your #1 buck. Either way, you can claim that you were forced into using the larger ammo. Using the #1 shot is strike three. Now, I choose #1 over #0 or #00 because of the number of pellets in each. 000 has 8 - 0.36 cal pellets 00 has 9 - 0.33 cal pellets 0 has 12 - 0.32 cal pellets and 1 has 16 - 0.30 cal pellets...twice the pellets with just a small variation in caliber. With #1 (and also #4) shot, you have the potential to cause a great amount of damage, without looking like some vigalante to a jury. And that is what it is all about. If you MUST do a shooting in your own home, you need to look like the defending victim, not the agressive property protector. As far as using ALL #7 shot, that just isnt for me. I would rather kill a man out of necessity than risk maiming him, having him recover, hold a grudge, sue, whatever...stranger things have happened. just my 2 cents. Jess | ||
| Jess Alvarez (Jester) Member Username: Jester Post Number: 178 Registered: 11-2002 |
Oh, and IMO .45 is the only way to go. Theyre heavier than a 9mm, yes, but it isnt like we are talking about lugging around a 25 pound weight as opposed to a 1 pound weight. Plus, the stopping power is going to be better. As was mentioned above, most of the special ops are ditching the 9's and going back to the 1911s. (a wise move, if you ask me) A 9mm as a tactical round is not as effective as a .45 Plain and simple. I have nothing against 9's I own 2. I just wont use them as my carry pistol. And I think a lot of people prefer them because they arent as 'scary' to them to shoot as a .45. Not saying that is the feeling of ALL 9mm carriers, but some. Of course, no matter what caliber your tactical round is, it will do no good unless you actually hit your target. Jess | ||
| Roland Kutasi (Disco1) Member Username: Disco1 Post Number: 201 Registered: 10-2002 |
Allright yo all, go for yo guns!!  | ||
| Danno (Danno) Member Username: Danno Post Number: 225 Registered: 08-2002 |
a plus for the 9mm is that you can carry twice as much ammo with full-capacity mags (over most .45's)so if you can't hit 'em with 8rds, you got another 7+ to go...but then again, i have a double-stack .45 toting 16rds | ||
| Reed Cotton (Reedcotton) Member Username: Reedcotton Post Number: 100 Registered: 01-2003 |
Danno- I have a buddy who always looks for the 9mm 10-round magazines at gun shows that can be modified to hold more. I usually tell him that he must be planning on missing a lot. .50, .45, .44, .38, .32, .22... When it come to protection, any of them are a better deterent than nothing. | ||
| Roland Kutasi (Disco1) Member Username: Disco1 Post Number: 203 Registered: 10-2002 |
Be afraid, be very afraid!  |
