| Author | Message | ||
     Dave (Discoverover) Member Username: Discoverover Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2002 |
My block had a cylinder sleeve slip down and the new land rover 4.0 block (made under ford, recently) replacement is much rougher running than my old engine. It was put together by official land rover techs and they seem to have done a good job, but the engine is very rough. It sounds different and isn't very smooth throughout the rev range. I know that D2 engines are not quite as smooth as D1 engines and believe that my new 4.0 engine was made the same way. Also, genuine replacement blocks used to cost $6000, mine was $2500. The engine seems to be a lesser quality and runs like it was never balanced. BMW owned land rover since 1993 when my original engine was made, the new engines are under ford. Its hard to go from a smooth V8 to a rough one that vibrates through the truck. I'm having land rover take a look at it to make sure that it isn't a "dud" engine. Maybe land rover had so many warranty claims that they had to supply a cheaper engine? Land Rover should supply equal quality replacement parts! Anybody else with the same experience? | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 49 Registered: 02-2003 |
Did they just replace the block itself, or was it an entire "short block" with new pistons, rods, crankshaft, etc.? They may have screwed up the engine valley gasket on reassembly. I had a mechanic fold over part of the gasket around the intake manifold on one cylinder, which created an air leak that made the truck run very rough. ---Norm | ||
| Matt Williams (Ltmatt007) Member Username: Ltmatt007 Post Number: 44 Registered: 02-2003 |
I am very curious about just how much input BMW and or Ford has had on the production of Discos. I know about what MBW did for the new Range Rover, but as far as things like engine assembly I don't know. If anyone has any information it would be interesting to hear.--Matt | ||
| Dave (Discoverover) Member Username: Discoverover Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2002 |
It was a genuine land rover short block that came completely ready for assembly. I know that Disco 2's do not feel as smooth as D1s do. The engines are different, whether or not its engine programming or better quality/ balancing of the crankshaft and pistons, I don't know. I want to know if the newer replacement engines are built with less care or if my engine was put together wrong. I am leaning toward the engines quality/balance as the problem. In this case, at least I know that the engine is running the way it should. The garage that did the work is very respectable. The owner is going to have land rover check my truck to make sure it meets their requirements. I wish I stuck with my original engine though, because the new one shakes all over. I believe that the new rover engines are Ford developed and my rover is running like a Ford explorer. Genuine Land Rover replacements should match the quality and time period of the original. Thanks for the responses. I would love to find someone else with a new LR short block and hear their opinion. Dave | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 51 Registered: 02-2003 |
So far I don't think Ford has had much input into LR motors other than sticking the BMW 4.4L motor into the new RR -- which probably was in the pipeline when BMW was in charge. I've heard that Ford is planning to put a Jaguar V-8 or V-12 motor in future RRs. Under BMW, LR started producing the 3.9 "B" suffix motor which is a slight improvement over the earlier motors which were basically Buick Jetfire V-8s from the '60s. The 3.9 "B" has an integral front cover/oil pump, serpentine belt and maybe larger coolant galleries. The 3.9 "B" also left off using a couple of head bolts that tended to pull the head gaskets apart in the earlier V-8s. The 4.0 and 4.6 motors were BMW improvements, with cross-bolted mains for increased strength and the GEMS distributorless ignition, which or may not be an improvement depending on who you ask. Otherwise, they're all basically the same motor using the same heads and valve gear as the original Rover/Buick 3.5 V-8. ---Norm | ||
| Dave (Discoverover) Member Username: Discoverover Post Number: 51 Registered: 11-2002 |
Right, all I know is that my new engine is no where near the smoothness or quality of my original engine. The disco 2 engines are cross bolted and have different parts around the crankshaft. Bosch 4.0 short blocks can be used in D1s with some minor changes. These Bosch 4.O disco 2 engines are not as smooth feeling as ealier disco engines. I think my replacement engine was built under the looser standards of the D2 engine. I mean different standards, not necessarily bad but the D2 does not feel as smooth as a D1 V8. Even though all of these engines are designed from the original buick V8, there are slight changes in construction to suit budgets and the different ecu configurations. I am agreeing with John Robison, who feels the same way about the new engines. I just want to hear from someone with a recent genuine LR short block or long block replacement for comparison. I am pretty sure that my new block was built under Ford regulations. Dave | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 370 Registered: 04-2001 |
"These Bosch 4.O disco 2 engines are not as smooth feeling as ealier disco engines" This is simply not true. The new 4.0 blocks in earlier trucks I have either seen or heard of are much SMOOTHER than the ones they replaced (3.9 or 4.0). This is from about a dozen or so I have either seen or had reports back from. A major cause of this increase in smoothness in my opinion is that valves (including intake valves) are cleaned before the heads are reinstalled in any good instalation. Your truck could have a bad block, but this is quite unlikely, the fault is most certainly in the install (IMHO though I have heard nothing but good things with Robison Service). A damaged wire, coil pack, vacuum leak, sensor, etc. all could lead to roughness and are fairly common in an engine replacement. Ron | ||
| Dave (Discoverover) Member Username: Discoverover Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ron, I have test driven brand new discovery 2s and I think the engine sounds or feels rougher through the cabin than earlier discoverys, in my opinion. My discovery was extremely smooth and gave no vibrations at all. Anyhow, do you think that the price change by $4000 could have anything to do with my rough engine? I think the crankshaft and pistons were not balanced and I should have had it taken apart and balanced. It is not misfiring or running any faults on the Autologic computer, it just is not as smooth as my original engine. I was told that it feels like the newer discoverys. I agree with you that it should be smoother, I am just looking for an explanation because its tough to pay for a brand new engine and have it run worse than before, although it is more reliable now. Its hard to imagine that it wasn't built right, but you may be right. Thanks for the advice, Dave | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 371 Registered: 04-2001 |
Disco IIs have a different engine management system and do tend to be a bit rougher at idle than the DIs, especially the 03s (which would make sense due to the cam differences). I was referring only to series I discos with new blocks. While anything is possible I don't know of any changes in the spec for 4.0 blocks, and besides you seem to be the only one that has reported a problem with a new block (at least to my knowledge). Ron | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 52 Registered: 02-2003 |
What's the dfference between the original LR 4.0/4.6 motors and the "Bosch" 4.0/4.6? | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 380 Registered: 04-2001 |
Basically nothing. The crank sensor mounting is different. Ron | ||
| Tbow (Tbow) Member Username: Tbow Post Number: 111 Registered: 12-2002 |
I installed a NEW 4.0 engine earlier this year that I got from Ron.. (thanks Ron) and it's running GREAT and VERY SMOOTH. The best it's ever run. Ron got it for me for a KILLER deal, even though it got messed up in shipping they shipped another one no questions.. Ron I hope you got it straightened out with UPS. But back to your issue, the engine runs a lot smoother than the original engine and after 4,000 miles, it seems to be settled in and running better then when I first installed it. The only thing I had to change was the crankshaft sensor bracket which I epoxied rather then weld. It seems to be holding fine.. Otherwise, it was very easy. I got the heads done and new camshaft done at the same time.. So essentially it's a new engine. You might want to look at a pinched gasket on the intake or some kind of intake leak. Use some carb cleaner and spray around the intake manifold it the engine rpm rises then you found the leak. Hope this helps. | ||
| J Laws (J_laws) New Member Username: J_laws Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2003 |
My 98 D1 had a new short engine installed by Landrover a year or so ago - although the new one seems more punchy at low revs it has taken a long time to run quite as smoothly as he old one did to start with, but after 20,000kms is good now. It was also full of protective wax which gunged the coolant up a bit until I flushed it. It would astonish me if Ford were going to any trouble/expense to change the manufacturing procedure of the Rover V8 which will so soon be discontinued. | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1554 Registered: 02-2002 |
If Robison put this engine together, I would question something other than the assembly techniques. Did you replace a 4.0 with this engine, or a 3.9? | ||
| Nick A. (Nick) New Member Username: Nick Post Number: 15 Registered: 03-2003 |
Trust me on this don't let the "Official LR Tech" BS fool you,either you are a good mechanic that takes pride in his or her work or just a grease monkey that is looking for 5 o'clock to roll around and go out drinking and come back hung over to work on our trucks.You may have had the second type work on your vehicle , which usaually means sloppy work and cutting corners. | ||
| Gil Stevens (Gil) Senior Member Username: Gil Post Number: 294 Registered: 02-2002 |
even "good" techs can make mistakes.. i put a bosch 4.0 short block in place of a very tired 3.9 in a 1990 county. I also have a 97 gems 4.0 disco. They are both equally smooth, although i wouldnt characterize them to be that. There are much smoother motors out there.  I would say let it break in a bit, I had some strange idle and rough running issues for the first few hundred miles. | ||
| Dave (Discoverover) Member Username: Discoverover Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-2002 |
Thanks for all the advice. Paul, it was a 96' 4.0 replaced with the genuine LR replacement 4.0 for my trucks serial number. I hope to get to the bottom of this soon, and I will post the results. Robison did put the engine together and I am not blaming them. I went to them for their expertise and I know they will figure it out. Something unusual is going on with this engine which is why I am questioning the quality of the block, but it's hard to believe the new short block is at fault. Thanks, Dave |
