| Author | Message | ||
     Kevin C. Burnett (94rover) New Member Username: 94rover Post Number: 23 Registered: 02-2003 |
Well I have managed to piss in the wind and toss approx. another $1000 at the truck in three days(94Range Rover) only to still have the remaining issue. I have smoke coming off the end of the engine above the cats, at the firewall, left side, and I can't figure out where coolant is leaking from. The truck also will not down shift from 3rd gear, it gets up to 70 and stays in 3rd and tach hangs out at or above 5- What I've done- I ordered a new evaporation tank, cap and sensor, installed a new water pump, all new hoses and thermostat (kit from Rovers North), had Radiator rebuilt/recored it was 60% backed up. I discovered the overheating problem a day after I got my truck back (Saturday) from having new shocks installed, u-joints repaired, power steering hoses replaced, rear brakes and rear rotors, two relays, and a new tie rod end, and the mud flap fastners removed to enable me to fit normal screws to attach another set of rear mudflaps- Sorry about all that but had to bring the history in. This post is in no way implicating/or blaming the Great Shop that did the above mentioned work because I do not believe that had anything to do with any of the current problems /just hurts that I've tied all this money into my truck over a two week time period and I need help from the board with what to look for or do next. I am ruling out a blown head gasket becaues the truck never ran hot to the point where I should expect that to happen. There is not water in the oil, no water coming out of the exhaust, and plenty of water remaing in the tank after sitting overnight. What do I do? I have spent $2680.76 in two weeks and I am still pissing in the wind. Any help from anyone would be great at this point. Wife wants the truck GONE! | ||
| David Hobbs (Ca_surveyor) New Member Username: Ca_surveyor Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2002 |
Did you replace the heater hoses at the firewall? Are they tight? Have you checked to see if the heater core is draining on that side? Are you sure you have a coolant leak? Could your transmission shift problem be lose of trans fluid? What does the smoke smell like? | ||
| Kevin C. Burnett (94rover) New Member Username: 94rover Post Number: 24 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey David, thanks for chatting with me on this. Before I answer you, let me just say that the Genuine Owners Manual sucks for getting you directly to where you want to be to start to self diagnose. Has anyone put it in some type of logical order? Now when you say the heater hoses at the firewall, do you mean the ones beside the manifold on the middle left side towards the frame arm? Or are you speaking of the two on top of the engine at the firewall? Sorry for sounding so confused its just that I am BROKE today and tired from being outside until 2:00 am EST this morning and getting up at 5am to take my wife to work just so I could use her car to get to work. Now, from as far as I can tell the heater hoses if they are the ones on the top part of the engine in the back appear to be fine. No leaks coming from them, and I remember I replaced all the hoses this weekend when I received the hose kit from Rovers North. Saturday delivery is expensive-I didn't think of the transmission shift problem being associated with low fluid thanks for helping me to remember that. The misty smoke coming off the rear of the firewall looks like a mixture of coolant and oil from some where. It only smells on the inside after about 20minutes in the truck after it has warmed up. I really am lost on this, and I don't have any more money in savings to keep pissing in the wind. Damn, this really sucks. | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1679 Registered: 02-2002 |
Kevin: Look at the valley pan at the very back of the engine. If you find coolant on the top of the valley pan, it is likely you have a leaking intake manifold gasket. The back two bolts become loose and after a few heat/cool cycles, they begin to leak coolant. It is difficult to guarantee this is the culprit until you get the manifold off, then you can see the smoking gun. I just did this on a '94 Disco. Several of the manifold bolts were so loose, they came out by hand. Now for the good part, it isn't an expensive fix if this is it, about $50 for parts and supposedly only 2.7 hours (according to the estimating guide). I plan on about four hours the first time through. Peace, Paul | ||
| David Hobbs (Ca_surveyor) New Member Username: Ca_surveyor Post Number: 34 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kevin, The heater hoses I am talking about are behind the plenum and enter the firewall. They come around from the passenger side of the engine. I had one of those blow before. Paul has a good idea about checking the valley pan. I found a leak there on mine, but it was the hose at the front of the pan and leaked rearward. Caused some smells. If you have access to a cooling system pressure gauge that might help. I tested mine at dead cold, and found several small leaks at hose clamps. It sounds like the smell is after you get up to operating temp. I would attempt to clean the area in question and start looking after you get it hot. Good luck and let me know how things are going. BTW, I agree that the manual lacks. | ||
| Kevin C. Burnett (94rover) New Member Username: 94rover Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2003 |
Whoa! That is a better way to start looking at the issue. I don't think that is something I can accomplish in the driveway with backyard mechanic tools-is it? I am willing to do anything to keep the cost very LOW! Being broke is painful enough, and the thought of gettng another $1000 bill/well I don't want to think like that. If I had the funds I would take it back to the Land Rover Svc. shop. I just can not afford it currently. It sucks also that I need my truck to get around. Toys are expensive. Another $1000 and I could have purchased a very nice high mileage Corolla or Civic, and still wouldn't have this issue of pissing in the wind- Please excuse my terminology. The Radiator guy called to check on me (thats some good customer service) and he is also very concerned. He asked me to bring it in today if I'm not afraid to drive it, he also offered to flat bed it into his shop at no additional cost if I needed. I let him know that I didn't think it was radiator related at this point because it is not running hot, he said no problem just get it to him this afternoon. I think I will pass your message on to him if you think your solution isn't a driveway repair. I'm not even supposed to have my hood up in my townehouse development, and I am supposed to settle with the buyers on Friday-whew I hope the H/A isn't perparing a fine for me before my wife and I move next week. Again I am rambling on and on because I am worried about my Rover. Thanks for the direction Paul. | ||
| Kevin C. Burnett (94rover) New Member Username: 94rover Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2003 |
David, you were able to post before I finished the response to Paul. Those hoses are fine. The radiator shop did a leak test for me and found nothing. And yes the problem starts when the engine is up to operating temp, and doesn't show while sitting idle, only when the truck is moving. I cleaned everything off yesterday in the pouring rain, and made sure it wasn't older spilled coolant remaining from the radiator rebuild and the hose changing, and the waterpump change, which btw I have an extra still good waterpump if somebody should need it, as well as a cap for the evaporation tank with sensor. | ||
| David Hobbs (Ca_surveyor) New Member Username: Ca_surveyor Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kevin, Have your radiator guy loan you his cooling system pressure gauge for the night. Be sure to check yor system when it is cold. Good luck. I know how it is to be broke, I quit my job almost three years ago and went into to my own business. No steady paycheck these days. | ||
| Kevin C. Burnett (94rover) New Member Username: 94rover Post Number: 27 Registered: 02-2003 |
Yeah David, I had all this money stashed away for the summer. I am a 10month paid employee with two moths off during the summer. I had enough money put away this summer for the necessary things in life, and the Rover repairs wasn't planned. I respect that you are self employeed "out on your own thing", and one day I plan to let my M.B.A/Management work for me again, 8 years in various accouting positions and I wanted out of the profession . I'm in my current position by choice, but the economy keeps me from making another choice. Times are tough, but everyone continues to manage I guess. Now if I could just stop thinking so much about this darn running hot/coolant leak. It has consumed me for three weeks this Friday, and I don't know how I am going to get to NC to pick my daughter up. I planned to take the Rover in order to get all the toys and things that were sent down to her for the week. Damn, I guess I continue to come up with even more issues. | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1686 Registered: 02-2002 |
Throw a paper towel in the valley gap at the back of the engine and let it run for awhile. the Disco I just did the job on, it wouldn't leak some days, then the very next day, it would gush at operating temp. I don't see any reason why you couldn't do this in the driveway, it requires no special tools, you odn't even have to pull the valve covers off. | ||
| David Hobbs (Ca_surveyor) New Member Username: Ca_surveyor Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2002 |
Good idea Paul. Kevin, I hope all works out. Did the radiator guy test on a hot engine or a cold engine. | ||
| Kevin C. Burnett (94rover) New Member Username: 94rover Post Number: 28 Registered: 02-2003 |
Update* Another $250 spent and I still get the coolant spew whenever I pull out of the drive way and drive off. Nothing leaking at idle, only when driving. I'm still driving the truck without a thermostat, and I am starting to think this is the problem. I had an appointment this morning to drop the truck off and the damn thing cut off on me up the street from my house- Forgot to tighten the battery cable down- duh- I can smell the coolant after the first 10-15 minutes of driving and after cutting off the engine. Signs of leaking and spewing can be found on the passanger side sill and front mudflap- My wife was really upset this morning as I attempted to take the truck in for more professional help, at this point I really understand her frustrations. This truck is slowly destroying me- I replaced the plugs Sunday, and no signs of a blown valve evident- Atleast the plugs weren't white and frosted like I thought they would be- New thoughts and leads requested- Hopefully I can reschedule my appointment. I really want to locate this problem and fix it myself due to my shortage of cash- | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 84 Registered: 03-2003 |
kevin, For what it's worth, check all radiator hose connections in front of the intake plenum. If you have a loose hose, say near the T stat, then the water will drip down onto the valley pan (under the intake) and move backward toward the firewall as you drive forward. Then the water falls down around the bellhousing and the exhaust pipes. Don't assume that everything is tight, check them! What did you find out on the upshift problem? Good luck and keep the chin up. | ||
| Kevin C. Burnett (94rover) New Member Username: 94rover Post Number: 29 Registered: 02-2003 |
A. Ali, thanks for the feedback. I have checked, rechecked and triple checked every hose related in the truck, and have discovered nothing related. I purchased a new expansion tank, a coolant plug sensor which I have yet to install because I don't have a 20mm socket, and the only reoccuring thing that I notice is the need to refill the expansion tank every day, and that when I raise the hood to check for drips of coolant the only place is that it is coming from the top of the expansion tank almost like its to much pressure somewhere. The upshift problem was a lack of transmission fluid- happy about finding that out. Chins up, hearts broken.. | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 418 Registered: 09-2002 |
I had a mystery leak about a year ago. It was the small hose that goes from the water pump to the block. I had coolant leaking off the back end of the valley. The clamp was tight but there was a small split on the underside of the hose right at the block - impossible to see and the coolant only emerged at the back. Get a paper towel and run your hand underneath all the hose clamps - might find what you're looking for. | ||
| Kevin C. Burnett (94rover) New Member Username: 94rover Post Number: 30 Registered: 02-2003 |
I will try that Steve. Thanks for the reply. Yesterday afternoon I took an old dental mirror(one of those small round ones that fit in your mouth) and held it under each hose hoping to see a split, or find a drop on the mirror. Nothing of course. I am only smelling the coolant after pulling off from the first start up. I just returned from a quick errand and noticed only a small smell pulling out of my driveway to the end of my street at the stop sign. No coolant on the passanger mudflap this time. This morning when I was heading out to Trevors shop, I was too excited sniff for coolant smells because I knew that the problem would soon be discoverd, but then the truck shut off because I failed to tighten the battery cables down securely after working underneath the hood last night. | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 420 Registered: 09-2002 |
Coolant on the passenger mudflap - first off loose the mudflaps - well maybe not, but check under the carpet for dampness. You may have to loosen a trim piece along the sill and stick your hand under the padding. | ||
| Kevin C. Burnett (94rover) New Member Username: 94rover Post Number: 31 Registered: 02-2003 |
Steve the mudflaps were off of the truck for a period of time, I reinstalled them with plans of restoring the truck to stock in order to prepare for a local Maryland sale. When I spoke to a few people that were interested in buying my Rover they all wanted to see the truck in stock form minus the EAS. Under the front carpet there is LOTS of water- I was able to squeeze the h#ll out of the padding and water flowed everywhere- Geez! It was water. I checked the sunroof drains and they are working properly, and I even poured water into the tubes from the sunroof and watched water drip out. The coolant spews onto the mudflap from wherever thats how I check to see if the problem continues. Not only is it on the mudflap, but above the wheel iside the fender, blah, blah, blah- I think you get the point... Thanks for helping me. It's 10:23pm est. and I am done for the night. I'll try to continue again tomorrow. |
