| Author | Message | ||
     Mike Dougherty (Mikedougherty) New Member Username: Mikedougherty Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2003 |
Is it possible to convert a US '89-95 RRC to have a manual transmission? Well, I guess anything is possible given enough time and $$$. So my next question is, how much should I expect to pay to get this conversion done by a reputable shop? If your sitting there asking "Why, the heck would you want to do that?" Then sell me on why an auto is better than a manual. I'm not much of an off-roader (yet). But I do drive sports cars and know the value of a manual in that context and can imagine that the benefits would carry over to off-roading. Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated. | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 153 Registered: 02-2003 |
Mike, Many people like manual transmissions off road. But there are some terrific arguments against them. First, there are a number of situations where you want one foot on the brake and one on the gas. In a manual, this is far harder to do without stalling. When climbing, and maneuvering, the auto-•••••• will not stall. Given the ramifications of stalling a truck a half-mile up a steep hill, the auto looks to be a wonderful alternative. In some terrains, it is often necessary to be very gentle with the throttle. This is made far easier with the auto. It can be done by slipping the clutch, but can you imagine doing that for a few hours at a time in sandy or muddy terrains? There is nothing that I am aware of that you can do with an auto that cannot be done with a manual, but some things are made more difficult. As I said, the manual does offer some significant advantages too such as engine braking, and simplicity and weight savings. -P | ||
| steve herrod (Sherrod) New Member Username: Sherrod Post Number: 36 Registered: 02-2003 |
well said Perrone! | ||
| Mike Dougherty (Mikedougherty) New Member Username: Mikedougherty Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2003 |
Thanks for the input Perrone. I agree that a manual can require a little more finesse, concentration, and practice to get the smoothness inherent with an auto. However, I will have to add a significant, in fact, the significant advantage (at least for me), is the actual shifting. An auto decides which gear it should be in based on engine RPM and throttle position (I'm sure there are more factors, but for brevity I'll leave it at that). Whereas a manual is in the gear you decide it to be in based more on approaching conditions than mechanical needs. I have yet to see an auto that can anticipate needs and select the appropriate gear. I'm sure they are not far off, but I am not aware of one just yet. What I mean is that in a manual I can run up to red line and hold it there for as long as I need. But an auto will shift into the next higher gear just before red line, even when in manual mode. I, and others, frequently bounce off the rev limiter for a few seconds because we know that an approaching corner is going to require the current gear and shifting would take to much time and unsettle the car. I assume there will be similar situations off-roading. The other thing is I can downshift when I know an up coming corner will require the next lower gear. It is far better to sacrifice a little speed leading into the corner than to shift in the middle and risk unsettling the car. However, most autos that I have dealt with down shift only when the RPMs are too low for the current gear. This means for the same corner I would have to decrease my speed by a lot more, or just take the corner at speed and hope shifting in the middle of the corner doesn't induce a spin. With some high performance autos shifting is very smooth so the risk of a spin is reduced, but not completely eliminated. The situations may be different in off-roading, but I can only assume the problem will be the same. The scenario I can imagine in off-roading is to take the hill you mention and put a large rock at the midway point right in the center of your line. From your vantage point the rock appears to be an inconsequential challenge so you gather your needed momentum (something, in my vast [3 whole outtings  ], appears to be a greatly needed asset while off-roading) and take off up said hill with your transmission shifting into 2nd for you. As you approach this rock you realize that this rock may not be as inconsequential as you first thought. As it grows larger you realize that what would be best is if you could slow down just enough to get back into 1st, tackle the rock at a slightly reduced speed, and then power up the remaining portion of the hill. So you drop the shift lever down into 1st, but the transmission doesn't shift. So you back out of the throttle a little more, still no shift... less throttle, no shift.... By the time you get the transmission to shift you have lost a great deal of your momentum. You make it over said rock, but with all of your lost momentum you can't make it up the rest of the hill. You have to back down. You have learned your lesson. You put the transmission in 1st, power back up the hill, carefully keeping the RPMs at a point where the transmission will not shift into second, conqueror said rock, and finish the hill. You did it, congratualtions. However, if you had a manual you could have made it the first time because you would have been able to shift down into first without loosing as much momentum and gone over the rock and finished the hill with ease. Of course, like I said I have 3 whole off-roading experiences under my belt. So I may be completely out to lunch with my thinking. I will leave it to the experts here to correct any misconceptions I might have. I am not trying to turn this into a manual vs. auto flame war. I am merely stating what I know to be the significant advantages of a manual over an auto in the sports car world and trying to figure out if they carry over to the off-roading world. Thanks, Mike | ||
| Andrew Clarke (Aclarke) Senior Member Username: Aclarke Post Number: 348 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wow, discoweb ... I haven't been here in ages! I'm the guy with the manual transmission who goes off-roading with Mike. Mike, when you asked me the other day if there was any situation for which I'd want an automatic, I thought you meant to OWN. The answer I gave was "if I was physically disabled". In my opinion, there are some valid reasons for driving an automatic off-road, although in my book they are more than offset by the advantages of a manual. I used to laugh at people who drove off-road with auto transmissions, but as I get older (I'm 30 now, ahem) I figure, to each their own. I'm not a rock crawler and did most of my off-roading as a youngster in mud and some snow, and in those situations I feel that a 5spd kicks butt. I would still prefer a 5spd in a rock garden, but I can see how an auto would allow you to just have one less thing to worry about. But back to Mike's original question, what's involved with converting an RRC to a 5spd? Can it use the same 5spd as a Disco or Defender or does it require a different one? Does anything else need to be altered or is it pretty much just a bolt-on mod? | ||
| Mike Dougherty (Mikedougherty) New Member Username: Mikedougherty Post Number: 17 Registered: 01-2003 |
A shop in Orange County estimate this cost to be around $6,000. Does that sound reasonable? They also lead me to believe that they do more conversion from manual to auto than the other way around. So given that it would seem that an auto does work out significantly better off-road. Can anyone comment? | ||
| J. Michael McCaig (Lrover) New Member Username: Lrover Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2003 |
If you are going to do the conversion you will need a pedal assembly from a grey market Range Rover. The slave and master cylinder from a 5spd Disco wiil work as well as the flywheel, clutch, transmission and transfercase. You will also need the right side transfercase mount and front driveshaft...there is a difference in front driveshaft length between the LT230 and the BW transfercase. I would check around in your area to see if there are any 5spd Discos in the local junk yards and buy the whole thing as a package. The Disco shifters will come up where they are now with only a little modification to the center console. Defenders are different. Auto vs. Manual discussion has been going on a long time. I never drove an automatic off-road until I bought a Range Rover and have been very impressed with it's capabilites but I do have to admit that I find a manual trans more fun to drive. Good Luck, Mike | ||
| Roland Kutasi (Disco1) Senior Member Username: Disco1 Post Number: 328 Registered: 10-2002 |
FWIW I have one of each and off road have not found either wanting. I guess it comes down individual preference. | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 340 Registered: 02-2003 |
rev limiter in a LR is it really that nessecery? |
