| Author | Message | ||
     Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 298 Registered: 01-2003 |
My 95 D1 w/110k wanders on the highway at speed. I have an OME mild lift and plan old AT type tire in a 245 size. How much does the swivel ball preload effect straight line stablity? Problem is, I've been driving my wifes car alot recently and now going back to the disco I am realizing how much I don't like driving a truck verses a car. Any ideas? Or is my truck fine and I just need to realize it's not a car? | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 171 Registered: 02-2003 |
Ever replace the bushes? | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 300 Registered: 01-2003 |
Err, no ... I hadn't thought about that one, good idea what else? It just wanders, no unusual shakes or vibrations, hit a bump at speed and it does just fine, no kick back in the steering wheel. | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 172 Registered: 02-2003 |
Mileage wise and description wise its time! I reckon by 70k mine were gone..its worse in very cold temps when the rubber hardens...but I hung on for another 40k.....the difference after replacing them all was incredible. Drove like new again. Stay with Genuine is my rec. | ||
| Raf usher (Zonamaya) Member Username: Zonamaya Post Number: 135 Registered: 05-2003 |
which bushes? and where are they located? and how and where can i order them? | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 303 Registered: 01-2003 |
Good idea, what about the swivil ball preload? Anything I should check there? | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 442 Registered: 08-2002 |
Chris, What bushes did you replace? What tools did it take? I believe that some of them take a press to replace, is this correct? Did you do engine mounts as well? I have the same problem. It is tough to describe. Wandering might be one description. It takes a lot of attention to drive really straight and constant very minor corrections. | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 304 Registered: 01-2003 |
Exactly Brian, I feel like I need to correct all the time. I replaced the damper, but it didn't help. I thought I messed up the camber or toe from the lift, but had the alignment checked and it still does it. It feels like a boat, like I have to correct all the time to keep it going straight. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 443 Registered: 08-2002 |
From British Pacific (I have no affiliation, just wanted to get a number for these. Panhard rod bush: ANR3410 (need 2) 6.92 Radius arm to axle: NTC6860 (2 per arm) 12.99 Radius arm to fram: NRC4514 (2 per arm) 4.61 Trailing Link front: NTC9027 (1 per link) 19.90 Trailing Link rear: NTC1772 (2 per link) 10.49 Self leveler: NTC1773x2 10.45 Total: 179.76 This is about the same as the polybush set from Discount Rover. British Pacific also has soft polybush sets for $200 and hard for $325. Anyone have comments on the type of bushes? What are the drawbacks to poly? Brian PS: Andy, I had mine running 245/75 BFG AT w/ the OME for many years and it did not do this. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 444 Registered: 08-2002 |
Andy, Do you feel like it is kind of scarey to drive at higher speeds (i.e. > 55). Brian | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 306 Registered: 01-2003 |
Yea, my commute is 32 miles one way on I-15 in SLC UT. 70 mph is the normal traffic speed. It really tires you out driving. I don't think the truck is unsafe, just harder to drive and not relaxing or fun at all. I'm just getting tired of trying to keep the damn thing straight, plus in the afternoon/evening big wind picks up from the mountains here and blows hard on the way home, so then I have something else to fight. My wifes audi does none of this, I just wish my discovery didn't either. I wonder if ploy bushings might make the trucks ride suffer more. Brian, how are your tie rod ends? | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Senior Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 551 Registered: 02-2003 |
AB sells a bushing kit for $125 dont bother with the poly shit it aint worth it. | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) New Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 36 Registered: 05-2003 |
I was going to say I disagree with Rob, since I have the soft Blue Polys, similar to stock. But if the stock ones will last 70K for $125, why not. I'd make sure they are genuine LR...thats how it came originally. Allmakes makes some things as good as genuine, but not others i,e, axel U-bolts. B.P. will sell Allmakes 'cuz its a better price than genuine., but see what genuine goes for. My polybush set was alot more than $125. If you have worn out rear trailing arm bushings, you "could" rename your Rover the Happy Wanderer. Those are the ones that make it feel dangerous at 70 mph, next to the cement lane divider. I have a '90 RR with a 3" OME lift and had panhard rod, radius arm and trailing arm (link) bushings replaced. The polybush kit didn't have the self-leveler bush, and the shop said I didn't need it anyway. It drives fine now, no more "happy wanderer". | ||
| Alan Bates (Alanb) Member Username: Alanb Post Number: 215 Registered: 07-2002 |
Eric, I have a set of the soft blue polys sitting in the garage and have been contemplating installing them because of the problems I hear about them, have you had any problems with them, and how do they perform off-road, how was the install? | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 447 Registered: 08-2002 |
Andy, I have brand new tie rod, drag link and all new ball joints on both. How about you? Brian | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 309 Registered: 01-2003 |
Same here, all the same parts are new on mine too. This a link to what Rob was mentioning; http://www.atlanticbritish.com/ProductList.asp?Category=SUSPENSION+%26+STEERING& Vehicle=D1&PerPage=1&ListType=DETAIL&PartNumber=9721 | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 310 Registered: 01-2003 |
The happy wander ... lol | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 448 Registered: 08-2002 |
Rob, It appears to be 149 now. Brian | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 311 Registered: 01-2003 |
Got this off of AB tech section; "Steering Wander - Troubleshooting Vehicle - Range Rover to '93, Landrover Discovery, Defender If you experiencing steering wander with your Rover, there are a number of possibilities. Based on our experience, we're listing them here in order of occurrence. Rear trailing arm bushings: to check, get a straight, fairly smooth section of highway, get to about 40 mph then step on the gas and then let off. Repeat several times. If you have to compensate with the steering wheel you probably have bad rear trailing arm bushings. Order part #NRC7491, or get the complete kit by ordering part #9721. Pan hard rod bushing: to check, start the car, open the driver's side window, stand beside the car and move the steering wheel back and forth (about 25 degrees). If you see the front wheels still and the body moving the chances are you have bad pan hard rod bushings. Order part #9000 (and be sure to change the nuts & bolts when doing the job!). Tie rod ends: Check the tie rod ends for play. Always change them in pairs. Order part #RTC5869. Steering box: There is an adjustment screw on the side of the steering box. Loosen the locking pin with an Allen head wrench and turn the large slotted adjusting pin. If the car seems to wander yet the play in the wheel seems normal, the box is probably too tight. Adjust a half-turn at a time. " | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 449 Registered: 08-2002 |
I have seen this as well. The symptoms appear the very similar to some of the items mentioned. According to these checks, the trailing link check fails on mine. It also pulls to the right a bit (brakes check out OK WRT this). The front wheels move even with a slight turn of the wheel so e panhard rod bushings checks OK. Tie rod ends, even though mine are new the track rod ends seem pretty loose if you turn the track rod. ?? I have been a bit leary of messing the the steering box, any advice there? Brian | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 173 Registered: 02-2003 |
I replaced all of them, but paid www.citysidegarage.com to do the hard work for me. Unless you have a serious press.....its worth it | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 453 Registered: 08-2002 |
So i guess you took them the parts and had them press out/in old/new. If so , then I have a buddy with a press that I could likely use. Are there any tricks to this? Special press tools or what? | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Senior Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 553 Registered: 02-2003 |
well it does say 149 i got mine this winter at 125 + 10% coupon they sent me. maybe try nathan for better price. poly's i hear consistently that they split and crack premature and cost twice as much, and if you break just one poly bush where are you going to find one? cant you need to buy a set. so then you are driving around with poly everything except a few rubber bushes that last 75k 6-7 years. also if buying the AB kit i'd suggest buying NEW nylock nuts for all the rad/trailing arms. use the old nuts to get your arms on and then remove them and use fresh hardware. tyhese items have a tendancy to back off thru time and fresh nyloc's are the best solution. they are not included in the kit unfortunatley rd | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) New Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 38 Registered: 05-2003 |
Allen - I got the blues 'cuz they are as soft as the stock bushings and ought to perform the same off-road. I had them installed before I took the RR off-road, so I can't compare them. They've only been on a year. O.K. for now. | ||
| Alan Bates (Alanb) Member Username: Alanb Post Number: 218 Registered: 07-2002 |
Thanks for the info Eric, going to try to get my blue set put on in a couple of months, hopefully with no problems. Correct me if I am wrong but I heard that the Ironman brand of polybushes were prone to splitting and cracking, I have the Polybush brand, maybe their better? | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 455 Registered: 08-2002 |
Well, with regards to the original thread... I am convinced that at present I need new bushes. However I am also pretty much convinced that there are problems happening as a result of changed caster due to a lift (you will find a pile of info in search). In addition I believe that the bushings on rear links are at such an angle that they might not be holding true at speed. Solutions to the root of the problem appear to be having your swivel balls drilled for proper caster(RTE & GBR) and/or offset radius arms. Offset radius arms might lead to further vibrations and in the end require a special drive shaft. It seems like many have reduced or eliminated the symptoms with everything from new bushings/dampers to True Track LSD in the front. The TT is an interesting idea since it would also be of benefit off road. Likely I will just start with bushings, motormounts, trns mount and offset radius arms and go from there. I also believe that offset trailing links would help as well. Any recommendations? | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) New Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 40 Registered: 05-2003 |
Allen - I believe the Ironman bushings are stiffer, so depending on the material, they could be more prone to cracking. I don't know the formula that all the different bushing makers use. Polybush makes a red set that is stiffer than the blues. If one were to install those and go off-road alot, I would expect them to fail before a set of blues. Brian - I have the OME HD lift, but no driveshaft vibration. However, I have not corrected my caster angle, so the front u-joint in not having to make much of an angle going into the front diff. I have OME castor correcting bushings for the front radius arms, but not installed. I seem to not notice the wrong castor angle for the most part. The best solution sounds like the drilled swivel balls, if it doesn't change the angle of the front diff to the t-case output. Offset radius arms and radius arm correcting bushings will eventually lead to vibration issues. The solution then is the double cardan front drive shaft. It becomes a trade-off of cost of re-drilled swivels vs. double cardan shaft plus off-set radius arms or correcting bushings and how much work is involved in changing out the items. | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 320 Registered: 01-2003 |
Well, I checked the AB tech procedures and it is as clear as mud on what my problem might be. Also rotated tires hoping it was a tire pull, no go. Checked all joints and bushings to look for play. I couldn't tell at all, so I'm taking it to great local LR repair shop. Maybe he can figure it out, last time when my truck ran bad I screwed around forever and replaced lots of stuff that I'd have too. I'll get a second opinion try that and post what the results are. |
