| Author | Message | ||
     Bill Collett (Billc) New Member Username: Billc Post Number: 2 Registered: 06-2003 |
I just talked to my dealer about getting a K&N air filter. They told me that these air filters cause the mass air flow sensor to go out. Is this true? | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1736 Registered: 02-2002 |
Mine has been on my Disco for more than 75K miles with no MAF related failures. Keep in mind that correlation does not prove causation. | ||
| Dave Van Haren (Plain2000dii) Member Username: Plain2000dii Post Number: 47 Registered: 05-2003 |
Of course that what the dealer told you. How many papers filters is going to sell you if you get a K&N? I've run one on my Porsche for years and never any problems(related to the filter) There's a lot of hype around K&N but I think the bottom line is if your willing to the maintance on it(cleaning,drying and reoil) then go ahead and do it. How many HP do the claim for a Disco? 10? 20? 50? Had one on a '94 mustang w/V6 and couldn't tell the differnce. | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 297 Registered: 03-2002 |
it has been alleged that if you *over oil* the filter, then, i guess, excess oil will leave the filter and collect on the maf. i guess my question would be not as much as "correlation does not prove causation," but will it give your dealer plausable deniability on covering your burnt out maf when or if it does go. i am sure they are setting themselves up now for an easy out later. | ||
| Brent Bevil (Brbevil) New Member Username: Brbevil Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2003 |
Love mine. Had it on for 12K miles sofar. It makes the truck sound throaty and thereis definatly a little more low end punch. It did not make a difference to milage. | ||
| Daniel Covaciu (Danielcovaciu) Senior Member Username: Danielcovaciu Post Number: 335 Registered: 10-2002 |
Several people on this board who used these ended up having fouled MAF sensors from excess oil biuld up. If you oil these well then you may very well mess up the MAF which is expensive. If you dont oil it well then the filter wont catch very much dust. | ||
| Tony Zuniga (Tony23007) Member Username: Tony23007 Post Number: 119 Registered: 05-2003 |
Im with Brent, I just replaced mine about 10K ago, I did notice a bit of an increase on the HP specailly on first and second gear, nothing to brag about though...no problems with MAF yet (knock on wood). | ||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) New Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 39 Registered: 05-2003 |
Mike from Discocrazy.com replaced his with a K&N and had to replace his MAF sensor. He said they used oil to filter the air and it gets on the MAF and destroys it. -Jim | ||
| Chad Mayes (Cmayes) Member Username: Cmayes Post Number: 75 Registered: 04-2003 |
Go with a snorkle. You'll get cleaner air through the engine and a little sound to boot... | ||
| Mark Devereux (Groupw) Member Username: Groupw Post Number: 69 Registered: 12-2002 |
I've had my K&N for about 70K. No problems, no oil build-up on the MAF screen, no MAF problems. This topic always confuses me. Why do people who over-oil K&N's blame the filter? | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1742 Registered: 02-2002 |
Mark: If you do something and it destroys an expensive part, who you gonna blame, certainly not yourself! Peace, Paul | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 299 Registered: 03-2002 |
especially if it screws you out of having that expensive part replaced on land rover's dime... | ||
| Brian Baker (Brian_baker) New Member Username: Brian_baker Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2003 |
I switched back to paper because I could not oil the filter right and dust got into my MAS. All I did was clean the MAS wire and no problems since then. Plus when I replace the paper filter I just replace it in 2 minutes no waited no screwing with oil. Nothing filters better than paper. The little bit of hp I got wasn't worth 400 dollars worth on MAS and an one hour filter change to let the filter dry after cleaning and re-oiling Just my 2 cents | ||
| Brian Baker (Brian_baker) New Member Username: Brian_baker Post Number: 2 Registered: 06-2003 |
plus I live in a desert there's a lot of dust in eastern wa. | ||
| Jake Porter (Beluga) New Member Username: Beluga Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2003 |
Well i've had a K&N for about 30K and my MAF did go out due to over oiling. I learned after spending $450 on a new MAF that all you need to do is spray the inlet of the sensor with contact spray (found at any computer store) it will remove all oil residue and perform like new. I tried it. It works. | ||
| Corey Shuman (One_bad_rover) Member Username: One_bad_rover Post Number: 146 Registered: 09-2002 |
Here is the key to the K&N, it gets dirty really fast and when it does you lose performance. It lets particles through that a reg filter would not when dirty. This said, if you maintain one AS DIRECTED then you are fine. The instructions specifically state that you should spray a thin coating of oil, let dry then reapply if needed. If you hose your filter with oil then it will kill your MAS, I burned two M3 mas before I got the reaming from the guys down at Eurosport. So if you can maintain it and use it correctly you will get a little enjoyment out but to me its more hassle than its worth, like said above, go with the snorkel. | ||
| Bill Collett (Billc) New Member Username: Billc Post Number: 4 Registered: 06-2003 |
Thanks for the info guys. I went to another dealership and they said that they have problems with thier MAS reguardless of the filter you use. They replace about ten MAS per week. This dealer also recommeds, and sells K&N's. | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 324 Registered: 02-2003 |
yeah I bet they do. | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 66 Registered: 02-2003 |
I don't care for the K&N -- I found that it lets a lot of fine dust particals through that the stock filter will stop. If you're driving in dusty conditions, this will be a problem. I didn't notice any discernable power increase with the K&N over the stock paper filter, only increased cost. I would say you're probably better off with the stock filter as long as you change it out frequently. ---Norm | ||
| Roger Fastring (Fastring) New Member Username: Fastring Post Number: 36 Registered: 02-2003 |
Whatever. K&N in: 95 D1 (120k), 96 BMW Z3 (101k), 87 Zuki Sami (105k), 97F250 (167K) with no problems. First mod I do. Doesnt 'do much' but IMO, it filters better and is cheaper over the life of the car. Never had any MAF problems, but when I oil it, I do it 'in a reasonable manner'. Cherry bombs and K&Ns, cheap and do the job... | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 92 Registered: 10-2002 |
Had one in my '95 Discovery for about 20K miles, and have one now in my Audi. Can't tell the difference. For me, quality and brand of fuel, tire pressure, and whether or not the vehicle is clean is more significant. Switching back to paper as soon as the K&N gets dirty enough. | ||
| Corey Shuman (One_bad_rover) Member Username: One_bad_rover Post Number: 149 Registered: 09-2002 |
K&N doesnt filter better!! IT relies on the oil to help catch particles, once the oil has absorbed all it can it will flow particles through that a stcok filter would catch. All a matter of what you want in your engine. | ||
| Land Rover Certified Used A**hole (Jason) Senior Member Username: Jason Post Number: 510 Registered: 04-2002 |
Personally, I prefer fine particles as a well balanced diet for my engine. Better ring seating through particulation... | ||
| Reed Cotton (Reedcotton) Member Username: Reedcotton Post Number: 179 Registered: 01-2003 |
For really dusty environments, get a snorkle first. It pulls the air from up high instead of under the hood. Next if you are really worried about the dust get a prefilter for the snorkle. Safari makes a kind of sock that goes into the tube to collect more dust. With a K&N filter in a dusty environment, re-oil it after it has first gotten dirty (be careful with putting too much oil on, you want to increase the dust catching not bathing the MAF). Except for the possible much argued ram-air effect of the Safari snorkle, all of these steps will somewqhat diminish performance, but they will help keep the smaller particles out of your engine. For normal street driving, K&N vs Paper ... If you like paper, use it, if you have a K&N it will work too, just keep the oil light. Even then re-oiling once before cleaning won't hurt you. If you want all-out-performance get a large ram tube with a screen over the front. You'll be rebuilding your engine a lot regardless of the dust it ingests. Happy motoring! -Reed | ||
| Yaroslav (Andr6761) Member Username: Andr6761 Post Number: 43 Registered: 07-2002 |
kn is definetly the way to go, the maf will fail if you apply too much oil and dont give it enough time to dry...but if done right it cant possibly break anything...had mine for about 30k miles and it works great, paper filters are old news... | ||
| Roger M (Ciscowiz) Member Username: Ciscowiz Post Number: 51 Registered: 02-2003 |
I have had K&N's in my Dodge RAM and LR Disco. The Dodge actually dropped MPG even after the initial heavy foot, to try to notice performance to which I noticed none. My personal opinion I think they are a waste of $ in the long run when you consider a $3 FRAM replacement at Wal-Mart. Now if you are into racing or other weekly motorsport then I can see a benifit of a K&N filter. Just my 2Cents Rog | ||
| Roger M (Ciscowiz) Member Username: Ciscowiz Post Number: 52 Registered: 02-2003 |
Forgot to add... I have had the K&N on the Disco for 40K miles and no MAF failures. I go offroading about 20 days a year and in dusty conditions the MAF gets a light coat of dust that passes through. | ||
| Reed Cotton (Reedcotton) Member Username: Reedcotton Post Number: 180 Registered: 01-2003 |
Roger- I think that everyones point is not having the MAF get a light coat of dust, or having any dust pass through. However I wonder how much the micro fine dust that coats my MAF screen (with K&N or Paper) will have any significant effect on the total life of the engine. Whatever is used is going to allow some particulate matter through. | ||
| Troy Morris (Cheapjeep2) New Member Username: Cheapjeep2 Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2003 |
I added an S&B 5" Cone filter, found at www.intenseperformance.com, and I notice a huge difference in power, now my DII reacts like it's in sport mode all the time. There is deffinately a power increase. I have these filters on my Jeep and it's a noticible difference. | ||
| Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Member Username: Markp Post Number: 212 Registered: 02-2002 |
Bill, There are actually two issues here. I notice your from Colorado. Same here. This is a dusty environment and the trails can be a cloud if your behind someone. Note that K&N does not say improved filtration, just improved air flow and power. For dusty environments like the SouthWest you will see more dust and dirt downstream of the K&N air filter. If you want to run K&N I would keep a paper filter for the trail. Personally there's not enough benefit, mileage or power, to run K&N's. I plan on keeping my truck for a long time. As for oil, you have to follow the oiling procedure to a T. Adding more oil doesn't significantly increase filtration and probably adds to the migration of oil downstream to the MAF. I suspect some add too much oil thinking it will help filter but just coat their MAF instead. - Mark |
