| Author | Message | ||
     Jeff (Junkycosmos) New Member Username: Junkycosmos Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2003 |
I am thinking of purchasing a 4.6 Range Rover (96-99). While my main purpose will be for onroad use I am interested in moderate off road use. The question I have is why do I see so few of these particular RRs in the off road sites? Any info on the 4.6 model would also be appreciated. | ||
| Alan Bates (Alanb) Member Username: Alanb Post Number: 239 Registered: 07-2002 |
I had a 95 RR 4.0se years ago and rarely took it off-road, it was simply too finicky especially the EAS suspension and it was expensive to repair, it was a great cruiser though, sold it and bought a 92 RRC that I have built to go off-road. I have never seen another 96-99 RR off-roading around here and I think most owners of these are too afraid to tear something up, but they are truly awsome off-road. As the price for these drop you will see more of these off-road. Funny you should ask, I just purchased a 96 RR 4.0se very cheap and I plan to off-road the crap out of it, it also had the EAS replaced with coil springs, I plan to add a spring spacer lift, some larger mud tires, expedition rack, winch, true trac diffs, etc. The prices for 96 RR 4.0se are really dropping 4.6 still more expensive plus they have 18" wheels, you would need a set of 16" wheels if you want to do any real off-roading, and I think you will see more of these off-road in the future. If you plan to buy one look over it very carefully and check all if any previous records, if they are maintained then you are in good shape, if not, runaway. I think the main fault of these cars are the EAS, convert to coils and all is well. Here is some very good links on some info: http://www.rangerovers.net http://www.robisonservice.com/servicedep/rover_advice1.asp Good luck in your search. | ||
| Jay Hobbs (Jayxd) Member Username: Jayxd Post Number: 149 Registered: 03-2002 |
You don't see many becuase they are just now getting into the good price range for people buying them for trail use - and you can convert to coil springs and scrap the EAS. I have seen one on a trail and it was a Callaway edition - owned by a couple in their 60s I'm guessing. Here's a shot of them on their first trail ride: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhobbs4/P4070036.JPG This was taken over 2 years ago so it was probably a $50K vehicle at the time. I hope that is me when I'm in my 60s! | ||
| Christian Kuhtz (Ckuhtz) New Member Username: Ckuhtz Post Number: 6 Registered: 06-2003 |
I bought a '99 HSE a few months ago, and it will be headed to trail soon. Almost went last weekend, decided to ride along instead to check out the trail before going myself. I'd rather know what I'm getting myself into first, rather than take a car of which I'm not a master (yet) and expose it to an unknown quanity (bad voodoo). Having seen the trail now, yeah, I could've made it just fine. But, I had a blast and enjoyed taking tons of pictures instead. Still looking at the EAS issues. There are ways to work around failures, however. It is important to consider what the intended use is and what the options are. I'm debating whether it is worth the conversion vs 'just' being prepared. Given the fantastic ride quality and manners of the HSE, I'm very reluctant to negate those benefits. It isn't a fulltime trail mobile, and will never be, so, compromise is what I'm after. With all the talk out there, you also have to remember that EAS is a key selling point for any aftermarket place (parts or otherwise), and it is in their best interest to make even the 2nd and 3rd gen systems look like liabilities, which break sitting on the parts shelf immediately after manufacture. So, there is a lot of FUD out there about EAS, and it needs to be put in perspective. However, you also have to consider the age.. and my '99 is getting to be almost 5 yrs old and checking the state of the air spring assemblies and preventatively replacing them when I do the shocks (which probably are starting to be a bit worn, too) is probably quite prudent. But this sort of stuff is no different to me than buying any other vehicle, which has a few years under its belt, and has a "performance envelope" exceeding normal vehicles. Based on hear-say, a Classic with 1st gen EAS seems is more of liability on the trail, as it is reportedly an inferior system. And given that I've heard that parts are starting to no longer be manufactured (yet will still be available for some time -- no need for widespread panic), I guess conversion isn't a terrible idea. But, that's for Classic, not P38A. The thing that bothers me most about EAS is that there's no instrumentation on it, other than when it fails. I'm intent on changing that. I want to know what normal operation is, as these things generally don't seem fail catastrophically other than as freak events. So, as you see things deviate from the norm, yeah, you can predict failure. Most air driven systems (vacuum or pressure) fail gradually most of the time. As to freak events, the main one (is there any other) is a blown bladder. And the fix (although I haven't done it yet) is relatively straightforward from everything I've been able to find out so far. An air spring assembly is an easy/cheap spare, too, for <$230 for a set of single front and rear assemblies. On the other hand, I have never been able to get an accurate assessment of what the drawbacks of coils are. Certainly cost of conversion is one. Robinson Service's website lists the cost of conversion at $1500. And cites LR genuine part prices for air spring assemblies. Arnott (sp?) Industries sells the new assemblies for far less than half of the genuine parts cost. The compressor part can be sourced third party as well. I haven't been able to find a third party source for the valve block, though. That said, for trail side repair, a compressor with the lines capped with tire valves gets you back to the road. Anyways, consider who you're hearing from that things are bad, double and triple check every source. I've had otherwise reliable sources give me very bad info. Generally, you're better off with a '99 and newer vehicle because of the updates and improvements (Bosch and otherwise). PS: And, yes, I'm shopping for cheap 16" rims as well. ;).. Although, I've already found out that the HSE w/ 18" Hurricanes and Michelin Sychrones is quite capable. | ||
| Jeff (Junkycosmos) New Member Username: Junkycosmos Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2003 |
Thanks for all the info. A lot of this is about what I expected but the sanity check is nice. Along the lines of tracking EAS monitoring so that one could do preventative maintence does anyone know exactly much EAS info the computer catches ? Also I did recently see just the airspring insert for $100 at http://www.britishpacific.com/rr/rr_newParts.html | ||
| Alan Bates (Alanb) Member Username: Alanb Post Number: 245 Registered: 07-2002 |
The computer will sence EAS problems and either give you an EAS minor fault or a major fault, it won't tell you where the problem is, only the dealer or a shop with the test book, autologic, etc. will be able to pull the fault and tell you what the problem is $$$. A minor fault will lock the car in standard height mode, a major fault will drop you to the bumpstops. You can easily change out an air bag yourself, but sooner or later all the EAS components will fail, compressor, valve block, height sensors, air leaks, and anyone of them could go out at anytime, if you are out on a trail and you drop to your bumpstops, then you might be in serious trouble being able to get out. That was my major beef with the EAS, and it made me very reluctant to take it off road, like I said before, if you start having trouble with the EAS or will be taking it off-road alot, convert to springs. | ||
| Christian Kuhtz (Ckuhtz) New Member Username: Ckuhtz Post Number: 10 Registered: 06-2003 |
Ron Beckett on the rro list just wired up a simple LED to the EAS pump to check operation yesterday. And it has already helped him diagnose that he had a minor leak on a line to the valve block. Nothing catastrophic, but without the LED indicating operation, he'd have never known that the compressor ran just a little bit too long for what it should've been. I've got some ideas how to further improve that, and what else to monitor. So, I'm sure more people are gonna hack stuff together (who knows, maybe even make kits). As long as you monitor the system, I don't see much wrong with EAS. Except for serious, near exclusive trail use. Also, what do you consider a minor fault? The RRC's EAS was much more succeptible to glitches.. (IMHO, all sorts of stuff can break on the trail, preventing you from getting out. Axles, shafts, tie rods, bla bla bla.. so, EAS is just one thing in the mix and everybody needs to make that call for themselves if it is worth the benefit/tradeoffs). Here's the link to the parts from Arnott Industries: http://www.arnottindustries.com/products/products.asp?modelYearId=22 I think that (knock on wood) there is preventative maintenance, which can help you avert problems before they became so serious that they'll leave you stuck. On serious trail rides, a serious spares & tool kit belongs into the truck anyways. | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 71 Registered: 03-2003 |
It doesn't seem too complicated to turn the EAS into a manual system should the need arises out in the field. By placing few jumpers on teh EAS harness plug, one could possibly manipulate the pump and valves as needed to get home. Of course I'd practice on my driveway first! Just a random thought. | ||
| Christian Kuhtz (Ckuhtz) New Member Username: Ckuhtz Post Number: 12 Registered: 06-2003 |
Yup. ;).. there's also supposedly a kit out there that allows you to fit tire valves to the lines and inflate the bags with any air compressor. | ||
| Alan Bates (Alanb) Member Username: Alanb Post Number: 247 Registered: 07-2002 |
Here is a link to the air valve conversion kit: http://www.motorcarsltd.com/specials/range-rover-spring-kits.htm I would still recommend converting to springs, and dump the EAS forever. | ||
| Sean Arney (Seana) New Member Username: Seana Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2003 |
Hey Ali, is that you buddy? I just picked up a 4.0 Ive got the coil over already done by motorcarsltd. If anyone wants some pics or info about the coilover job let me know. It looks like some simple offset mounting brackets which leave the original bag mounts open/unfettered. I have been reading "Lowrider" magazine and there's a ton of street dancing crap out there - ya know where they actually operate the vehicle remotely and it jumps and kicks itself up with about 10k worth of stereo crap in there...so theres plenty of valving/bagging componenets around - ya just need Ali to engineer all the shit together!! I've seen one guy down here in Austin who has his 4.6 all set for serious offroading. 2" or 3" lift, I know the guy who did it and he said that it's pretty simple, just relocate the sensors to provide the extra travel. Im wondering does anyone have the ODB1 software/setup on their 4.0/4.6 - I really need some more geek factor...LOL. Im trying to figure out the undercarriage - it seems to look more like the defender the way the frame sticks out from the body. | ||
| Christian Kuhtz (Ckuhtz) New Member Username: Ckuhtz Post Number: 14 Registered: 06-2003 |
Don't say P38A's don't go off-road, because mine most definitely did yesterday.  Huge amounts of fun! What an amazingly capable truck! Bonestock including 18" Hurricanes w/ Michelin Synchrones, save for the removed factory running boards & bib spoilers. First off, Beasley Knob. http://www.4wdriver.com/regions/region7/beasley/beasley_map.gif From the parking lot at 230, to the 4-way intersection of 230/288/231 was challenging but not too bad. Continuing on 230 past the intersection was very hairy. Mud, clay & soil were in and on the sides of the trail, shallow walls, no real danger of hurting the truck. You'd just get really stuck .. Took 230 to the next 3-way intersection, and to the end where there's an exit marked on the map. Bad news, exit was blocked/locked with a big beam across the road. So, I ended up having to go all the way back the way I came.. the rest of 230 doesn't lead anywhere pleasant. Amazingly, the traction control was not active except for two spots where it came on for a split second. Arriving at the parking area, the andrenaline was certainly pumping. I am AMAZED at what this truck is capable of, especially on a set of 18" Michelin Synchrones. The traction control only came on at a few spots. In the slippery stuff, all 4 wheels slipped slightly, while maintaining some traction, but gentle forward motion was always maintained in 2 low. However, I now really want a set of 16" rims (maybe slightly wrong offset to have them protrude off the sides of the truck very slightly-- seems that would prevent the truck from sliding into the wall/berm directly on mild stuff, increase the width of an already wide truck, and allow more mud to be thrown all over the truck LOL; then again maybe this isn't such a bright idea), with some real off-road rubber on them. While the truck did great all day on those 18" Synchrones, it would boost the confidence and allow me to get stuck in places never before possible .. Went from the parking area at 230 up the road to the entrace for 93. Several people had already attempted to go up 231, near 231-A. Several *eeps were damaged there, and a couple of people decided it wasn't worth it. I certainly wasn't keen on taking chances on bending sills/doors, and lost no pride backing back down. 231-A looked nasty in that there are tall clay walls on either side of the trail and the rut is slightly slanted to one side. Not a good plan for my truck either. So, tracing it to 230 and then taking that route again seemed like a bad idea. Afterwards, we went to the Suches trail, what a blast. A little bit of everything. No real chances of hurting anything as long as you had your wits about you. Very enjoyable ride. Afterwards, we explored a few gravel roads (some more rough than others) in the Cooper Recreational Area/WMA. Fun to drive around and climb the trailes along the mountain sides, and explore a few trail spurs. But nothing like what we had earlier in the day. The truck was nicely soiled by the end of the day, although a lot of the mud/clay collected so eagerly on 230 earlier was washed off by the several water holes/crossings/pits we went through later in the day. At the end of the day, my P38A looked the dirtiest I have seen a P38A .. She was finally baptised. A final thought, while riding passenger on Rich Mountain a month ago was certainly exciting, and most of all instructive.. I wished I had driven it looking back now. Oh, and, yes, the ride is impeccable. I guess I should probably sit down now and write an article for the SOLAROS Greenlaner. |
