| Author | Message | ||
     Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1666 Registered: 02-2002 |
In todays Wall Street Journal, Section D, Page 5 there is a list of all the automobile manufacturers. JD Power & Associates are finding that most Euopean cars are not aging well at all. The list is sorted from top to bottom and the cars are rated by the amount of problems per 100 units. #1 Lexis w/ 163 problems per 100 units Second only to the Kia at the bottom of the list is Land Rover with 441 problems per 100 units. I also own a VW Golf and according to the list, it sucks as well. Damn! Anyway, Porsche is the highest rated Euro car at #4, followed by Jaguar at #11. However, I am having a hard time with Buick being rated at #3 (above Porsche). I didn't think they made those anymore. Putting pride to the wayside, what autos do you guys think are the best built? Paul '00 Pig | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2337 Registered: 02-2002 |
Well....... Best built as in, it will keep on running and running and running? Or best built as in, this vehicle will still be on the road in 40 years? Or best built as in, a lot of thought went into the creation and effort into the production of this vehicle? Buicks are still made, it's Oldsmobile that has been rolled up.... I dunno, I still think of Volvo as well-built, or BMW. Mercedes too. Rolls Royce? Maybe... I get the feeling that while the bottom of the barrel has been pulled way up, the aspirations to build a DURABLE car have passed, because they, the manufacturers, realize that: a) if it wears out, they'll get to sell you another b) technology will change: you don't want to be driving the same vehicle 20 years from now, because you'll want something with ABS and airbags.... that designed obsolescence. I have to admit, I think they're souless, I don't want one, but, if I thought there had to be a "general-issue" "it'll do for everyone" car, I'd probably say Honda or Toyota. FWIW..... -L | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior Member Username: Karen Post Number: 149 Registered: 02-2002 |
Paul, I don't pretend to be a motorized vehicle expert, just an average consumer. That said, I have to say our Disco has been fabulous in the (gulp, has it already been that long???) nearly two years we've had it. The build quality has been all I'd hoped with only a slightly sluggish fuel door latch needing to be replaced and a slightly catchy seat belt as an episodic irritant. (Really, I had to think hard to come up with anything to report as less than perfect) Our other vehicles are both '87 models, a Volvo 240 and a GMC dually pick-up. The dually has seen hard use but the build quality was not there from the start. I have no complaints about the guts of the thing, it's a 454 workhorse, but the trim and other niceities were crap from early on. Trim literally just fell off or otherwise uglied up really fast. The Volvo had a few finishing issues but has been a little tank. The truck has needed far more work on transmission, engine, etc. but kept up with it's been reliable and worth repairing. The Volvo has needed nothing except regular maintenance, but you'd better not be late on it or it will leave your sad butt a sittin' (like timing chain intervals being critical). Before these vehicles we certainly got our fair share out of an early '80's Honda Civic and a holy host of original VW Beetles. They were fun because with my copy of "How to Keep Your Volkswagon Alive" in the back seat, even *I* could get myself out of most roadside troubles. The floors rotted out at an alarming rate, but in a weekend you could pop-rivet in a new one! VOILA! What more could a starving college student ask? I even helped my good friend rebuild my VW motor in one afternoon. I basically handed him stuff, but it was good fun. This is my limited experience with cars and build quality. My goal is to stay out of the payment-book zone as much as possible, so I try and buy what I think will FAR outlast the payments. My latest gamble was Land Rover and I've loved the hell out of it so far. Karen  | ||
| Max Thomason (Lrmax) Member Username: Lrmax Post Number: 197 Registered: 11-2002 |
FWIW, my 1988 GMC 1/2 ton pickup truck has been a true champ. It needs to have its alternator rebuild every 80,000 miles or so, but that isn't bad. Generally speaking, that thing will somehow always limp home. The only time it ever needed to be towed was when it blew out 3 tires in about 50 feet. Of course there is nothing you could (reasonably) do about it, but it does make you wonder as to what exactly what the vehicle is trying to tell you... The oldsmobile Cutlass Sierra was ok-ish. It had a bunch of problems but we never fixed them so it was trouble free (LOL). Just ran it into the ground. I've talked to people who claim that Porsche has MORE problems than Land Rovers. Mainly in the electrical area. I kinda find that hard to believe but it might be true. As for the rovers, well, 2 words: Money pit. Our disco had a bad previous owner with an terrible dealership. We've had to work through all of the crap for a few years but in the end the discovery has been fairly reliable. The Series 3 109 is an even bigger pit. Overall, the major downfall for this truck are the smaller things. Connectors, water in dizzy, and stuck exposed components (throttle linkage) have all brought this thing to a halt. But alas, I can (somehow) always fix it on the side of the road. In terms of reliablility, it has been the most reliable old vehicle in the driveway. Most importantly, the 109 has taught me how cars work and how to fix them (on the roadside). Plus, it is physically impossible for me to speed so I'm not like all the other kids my age who total a car every year (geez!). BTW, is it just me or is Lexus just a Toyota???? That is why they are reliable, its a freakin' yota'. Them things will go and go. Max T. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1668 Registered: 02-2002 |
Yeah Karen, My VW is paid off and has 68K on the clock. As for wear and tear, I put some pads on the front brakes. Another time a retread tire cap flew off a tractor-trailer while driving down the highway. Well this tread hit my VW and caused $500 in damage. But that wasn't VW's fault. Paul | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 439 Registered: 07-2002 |
There is definatly something to be said about older, no frills cars having great reliability. Not much to go wrong. My first car was a 77 Trans Am with a 6.6L V8, with the powerglider trans. Great car. Rusted out pretty fast, even after repairing the body and frame, but that engine ran incredible, and got me almost 20mpg. But if I drove it like I stole it, well I'd be luck to get 6-7mgp. My wife had an 87 Mazda 323, manual everything, and put 210K on it without replacing anything except the alternator, brakes, and exhaust. Don't know how she got that mileage out of the original clutch or timing belt. But we sold the vehicle for a few hundred bucks. She had it for 12 years and it was the most reliable car we've owned. After that I'd have to say my 92 Miata was next. Not much to go wrong. Little 1.6l engine ran great, very fun car to drive, and cheap to keep on the road. Give it gas, change the oil once in a while and put the top down. Our Disco has been Ok. It hasn't broken down, but I've already had the valves replaced under warrenty at 47K, tons of leaks, a few steering boxes and pumps replaced, window seals replaced, exhaust hoses etc. replaced. and the gas mileage keeps getting worse with age. But, as Leslie said, Rovers have personality, and I like that. I bought a Honda years ago and kept it for a few months. Hated it. Felt like I just another lemming. Sold it for a bit more than I paid and bought a different car. I've had about 15 cars so far. A few pontiacs, two '85 300zx's, a Honda Civic, a Mitsubishi 3000Gt, Chrysler Sebring convert., a Jeep Grand Wagoneer, A BMW 525i (Miss that inline 6) a PT Cruiser, currently own a 99 D1 and a 2000 Saab., I'd have to say the two Mazda's have been the best reliability wise, the Miata being the funnest to drive, but I'd have to say the Disco is my favorite. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2343 Registered: 02-2002 |
My first car was a 77 Trans Am with a 6.6L V8, with the powerglider trans. Great car. Rusted out pretty fast, even after repairing the body and frame, but that engine ran incredible, and got me almost 20mpg. But if I drove it like I stole it, well I'd be luck to get 6-7mgp. a) it wasn't a Powerglide, it was a 350 Turbo Hydramatic transmission. (Well, I suppose someone "could" have put a powerglide in it, but it wasn't originally that). Oh, wait.... my '76 had the Pontiac 400 with the 350, in '77 they switched from the "400" being the Pontiac 400 to being called a "6.6L" instead, and were using the 403 Olds engine. The may have changed transmissions too, but, I wouldn't have thought so.... some place at home, I've got a book, I'll have to dig it out and look that up sometime. b) I agree, though, I'd cruise along pulling in ~19 mpg in it most of the time.... 'cept when I was being a dumb-butt spending evenings on a lonely strip of 11W outside of Bristol with just a couple of other friends and their cars, too.... And, it really was just a "gas it up and go" vehicle, you didn't have to do anything to keep it running. My subframe was great; it was the door-jambs where the door-latch-post was that rusted out so badly on mine. FWIW...... -L | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior Member Username: Karen Post Number: 152 Registered: 02-2002 |
Man, how could I forget???? I also had two Mustangs. The first was a '65 with that huge 289 V-8, and the second was a '72 V-8. They both eventually had rust issues, and the '65 used a quart of oil with every fill-up! I left everywhere in a cloud of blue smoke. I never knew how fast it was until I drove anything else. We sold the '72, after fixing the rust, to a rather interesting man who was buying it for his sister. He paid me in cash, with all fives and tens. As David tells the story, "Nickel bag, nickel bag, dime bag, dime bag......." I guess it did O.K. for the sister because we never heard from him again, WHEW! Karen | ||
| Tim (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 491 Registered: 12-2002 |
Honda, Toyota and Subaru get my vote. I've owned all three and had great experiences. My 71' Ford Maverick (hold the laughing please) was actually a breeze to maintain and built pretty solid. Plus you gotta love a slant 6 for simplicity! KJ- Oh my! You sold a 65' Mustang? Have you seen the recent re-sale price on a 65'? | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 440 Registered: 07-2002 |
Good memory Les, I'm trying to remember which car had which engine. I had a 77 and a 79. I'm pretty sure they both had the powerglide trans, I really wanted a nice turbo 400, or the very nice 4 speed. I'll have to go look at the pics again. One had the 3.9l and the other the 6.6 or 403 Olds. Loved the "Shacker" fake hood intake. Great exhaust sound, especially with the headers and very large intake/carb I put on there. Handled OK as well. Use to do some "cannonball" type races up in Hunterdon County NJ when I was in high school. The powerglide was really only good for highway speed, pretty awful off the line. At least in first, second gear it would start pulling!! When did Subaru start making their cars in Japan? I noticed that most of their current lineup is made over there now. I'd love to get a WRX or the new STI. | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 441 Registered: 07-2002 |
Hey snow, buy a car yet? | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior Member Username: Karen Post Number: 155 Registered: 02-2002 |
Yeah, Tim, I knew even then I was selling a classic. What I needed at the time was a reliable set of wheels, and the '65 needed a lot of help. My parents paid $500.00 for it as my first car, and it had rings and rack issues then. It became pretty scary to try and steer and I refused to drive it after a couple of years. My parents were splitting up and about the last thing on their minds was large car repair bills, so it was sold to someone who loved it and intended to fully restore it. I hope he did, it was a cool car. Karen | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2345 Registered: 02-2002 |
The THM400 is a beat of a tranmission, very rugged. The cool thing about, IMHO, was that you could put it in low 1, and just floor it... it would shift itself up to 2 when it had to (the lever would stay in 1, but it would go ahead and shift... kinda like a built-in drag race mode). But, it ate a lot of hp... The THM350 I had was a solid transmission, but not as bulletproof. I actually killed one. I agree, a Muncie 4 would've been nice to have had behind a 455HO... And, my shaker hood actually worked. '72 was the last functioning year: there was a solenoid under the gas-pedal, so that if you floored it, it would open the door on the back of the hood. Me? I just drilled out the rivets on the blocking plate... when the t-tops were off and you stepped into it, you could hear the air being drawn in.... The problem with about '75-on, was that they went from a rear-end in the 3 range to the 2-range... my '76 had a 2.41 rear-end.... that's why they got decent mileage, but they didn't launch that well. If we had put a 3.83 back there or something similar, we'd have jumped hard... but, mileage would suck. Subaru: when haven't they? No, I know, some of them were made elsewhere, but all of the Imprezas are built in Japan. Some of their other ones are, but I don't think all of them are. -L | ||
| Carlos Cruz (Ahrdstr) New Member Username: Ahrdstr Post Number: 5 Registered: 05-2003 |
Leslie is correct about "planned obsolescence". It is a factor that nearly all designers account for in their designs. I had the good fortune to meet the original designer of my 1960 Austin Healey 3000 at a Healey gathering a couple of years ago. I posed the question, “ Did you ever think these cars would be around today when you designed the Big Healey?” His response, “Bloody hell! We expected these cars to last no more than 10 to 12 years. You go into the car making business to sell cars several times over not to sell only one.” As for the most reliable daily driver car in my past, I’d have to say a 1983 Honda Accord purchased from my wife’s uncle for $50 in 1994. It had 133,000 well cared for miles on it. I had it for two years and in that time did nothing more than change the fluids periodically and have the transmission bands adjusted for a couple hundred bucks. I logged another 91,000 miles on it and sold it to my admin for $500. I bought it with the intention of driving until the wheels fell off. I grew tired of it before that happened – no AC. I spoke to the person I sold it to about two years ago. She still had it then with nearly 402,000 miles on it. She did have the transmission rebuilt but other then that, only normal fluid changes. The car was / is a tank. Then again my Healey is 44 years old, still on the road – a true testament to its engineered simplicity. Carlos | ||
| Sus (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 464 Registered: 06-2002 |
That same article was in the NYTimes yesterday and a close friend of mine (Isuzu Trooper owner with 225K on the clock!) cut it out and put it on my windshield for the morning's NEWS! So, I've only had 4 cars in my life and what I noticed is this...my parents have always had luxury European or American cars. Cadillacs run forever and tend to resell fairly well, Mercedes is by far the best built car we've ever owned (5 of them so far) but once the gas engines hit about 150K MAJOR things start needing work. The diesels will run and run, but they need to be maintained with TLC and a little faith. BMW is similar. I had a Ford Explorer for about 2 years and while I did some major replacing of parts (AC, Radiator, etc), it had obviously been run hard in it's prior life. What I did find though, is that parts were really not any cheaper for it than they are for the imports. The only exception is the plethora of dealerships. So far, the Rover has been as reliable as any. I've done brakes, replaced the cruise control vaccum hose and had the exhaust replaced from the center - rear. Most important thing is...I love this car more than any and it has enough character to keep me happy. It pays for itself everytime I drive through the woods, mud, rock and snow and then cruise on the highway in comfort with a huge smile on my face! | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 442 Registered: 07-2002 |
Muncie 4 with the 455, dare to dream. Actually I work with a guy that has a 72 with that exact combo. He is rebuilding/restoring it. Body is in ok shape, interior is awful, but when that thing starts up, wow! Now that is a V8. He also has a 2001 TA WS6, with the 6 speed. Says that the new one will keep up with the 455, and destroys it in top end. But after a little reworking the 455, he's hoping for 550-600hp. Not to shabby. Personally, I'd really like to have a 69 Z28 with the 302, dual 4 barrell carbs. One day. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2346 Registered: 02-2002 |
A '72, eh? That's what I'd love to find.... Or, a '68 Firebird 400. My brother has a '73 Camaro RS that's stroked and bottle-fed, it's beyond scary.... -L | ||
| todd slater (Toddslater) Senior Member Username: Toddslater Post Number: 312 Registered: 08-2002 |
Muncie is very good indeed, but the toploader is the high water mark in bullet proof 4 speeds. | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 635 Registered: 09-2002 |
My first car was a 1980 Toyota Corolla. That thing was EXCELLENT! Went everywhere I needed it to go, nothing ever broke, good on gas...but the body started to rust out. At 10 years old I had a mechanical inspection on it and the mechanic said that the engine could go another 10 years but the body wouldn't last more than five. He then proceeded to show me the trunk. He lifted the spare tire and I could see clear through to the road in some spots! LOL But other than that, it was a great car. Before my Rover I had a 1989 Nissan Pathfinder. It had the big tires and everything and I actually liked it quite a bit. I sold it 2 years ago but it was a pretty trouble free vehicle. In the 5 years I owned it (I bought it when it was 7 years old), I had to replace the battery and muffler which were original, tires, and belts. The only actual problems I had was my slave cylinder went so had to fix that and a pebble punctured my radiator some how but I replaced it with a used one I found. Other than that it was a great truck but rust was starting to get to it so I sold it and got the Disco. In the 2 1/2 years I've owned it, it's been not bad, nothign like some of the storeis I've heard here. I've had to replace one of the AC fans, 2 O2 sensors and the RHS exhaust manifold and fix a couple leaks but other than that it's been running quite well and has never left me stranded. But I did realize that maintenance and parts replacement was somethign that I would have to be aware of a bit more frequently with it and I'm fine with it. | ||
| C. Fisher (Netter) Member Username: Netter Post Number: 50 Registered: 02-2003 |
My disco is "Like A Rock". Oops that one has been used. I have had only a few cars (88 Jimmy, 96 Saab 900 Turbo and now my Disco) and this thing has been solid. Yes I have had a few things done to it like leaks - but who hasn't. I with Alan, I knew what I wsa getting into especially with parts availibility and maintainance. I love it and I would never think of getting rid of it. Nothing is perfect but it has been a million steps up on that Saab. | ||
| Kirk Thibault (Kirkt) Member Username: Kirkt Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2002 |
Buicks have no problems when they are bought by old folks and driven 1000 miles a year, living in a garage when not in use. Either that or it's Tiger Woods' personal input on engineering and design. Is it me, or does the Buick minivan thing look like a bubbly Pontiac Aztec? One vehicle not to take styling cues from. | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 444 Registered: 07-2002 |
Looks like Lexus took a few cues from it as the new RX300 looks a bit like it was cross bread with the Buick Rendevous (SP?) and a minivan. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1670 Registered: 02-2002 |
LOL Kirk! | ||
| Sus (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 467 Registered: 06-2002 |
Paul, how did you become a Dweb LOUNGE MEMBER? What must I do to be inducted?! lol | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 445 Registered: 07-2002 |
Yeah Paul, how did you become one of "them"? | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 260 Registered: 08-2002 |
Hey, I just noticed that. And I just noticed I'm a "senior member"... must be a posting quota thing. | ||
| Sus (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 469 Registered: 06-2002 |
All of 'us' senior members aspire to DWeb Lounge Greatness!!! | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 349 Registered: 02-2003 |
hmm, I think you gotta buy stuff from the store. | ||
| Ron Carson (Ulster) New Member Username: Ulster Post Number: 14 Registered: 06-2003 |
Durability has to go Mercedes. All time, hands down winner. If they still made them like they used to, you'd never need to buy another one. I agree with the general sentiment that manufacturers make cars today so they do wear out more quickly. Only the "luxury" brand folks worry about where their vehicles fall on these rankings - and that's only because a stigma of poor build reflects badly for people who spend $50-80k on a new car every couple of years. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1674 Registered: 02-2002 |
I am a fan of the Mercedes. I would love for the wife to own one, but she is stuck on this Volvo XC90 thing now. | ||
| Ron Carson (Ulster) New Member Username: Ulster Post Number: 16 Registered: 06-2003 |
I had a Volvo C70 up till last November...had to get rid of it to make room for a LR and a doggie. It was incredibly well built, though to toot their horn for them, it was assembled by TWR which you may know of from F1 (Arrows team) and beefed up XJS's in the early 90s. I've always wanted a 560SEC...big, stylish, will go forever. | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 637 Registered: 09-2002 |
I still see lots of Volvo 240s around. Those things just won't die! Paul - would you rather have her wanting an Explorer?? I like those XC90s. For what they were designed for (urban runners) they seem to do the job well. | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 448 Registered: 07-2002 |
There are a lot of XC90's around here now. Seems like a lot of people are getting rid of their H2's for these. I've seen a few H2 sitting on the Volvo lots for sale lately. I wouldn't mind getting one of those new Infinity Urban crawlers. Pretty slick looking. The new VW is nice as well. Just can't see why Porsche had to remane it put their name one it. | ||
| Ron Carson (Ulster) New Member Username: Ulster Post Number: 19 Registered: 06-2003 |
I test drove an XC90 before I got the D2 and I have to say it was a great, great vehicle. (I refuse to use the descriptors "truck" and "rig"). However it was priced at around $45k and I got a 2002 D2 SD with 7000 miles on it for $25800. One other thing, I read in AUTOMOBILE, that Volvo used a bunch of San Diego "soccer Moms" to give them input for the design. Now guess who's its designed for. That would have put me off it alone if the dealer hadn't told me the price. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1678 Registered: 02-2002 |
Great point Alan. Zack, maybe I should be lurking at these dealer lots for a used H2. Oooooh what would the neighbors day | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 640 Registered: 09-2002 |
Ron - that's the nice thing about the XC90. They knew exactly what market they were going for and didn't over design or try to hide anything or make it out to be something it's not. I respect Volvo for being honest about it and consistently sticking with their core (safety) strength. I'm still not sure about the Touareg/Cayan. It looks to be clearly designed to be a luxery urban runabout but then they stick lockers on them as if they're trying to hit all markets at once but I have a hard time seeing people in that market making a purchase decision based on the fact that it has lockers. Most wouldn't even know what those are. I hope LR remains true to themselves. If they want to enter the urban runabout market, then make something specifically for it and market it purely as that. Don't try and take an existing vehicle and make it do it all because all you end up doing is having to compromise in some areas to make other areas more capable and you end up with a vehicle that lost some of its character. Zak - yea I agree. I've seen a few of those Infinity's now and they are growing on me. I think for just running around town and maybe going to the ski hill they'd be great. But I still prefer my Disco for a rugged all around truck. I may not get there as fast but I'll get there. | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 450 Registered: 07-2002 |
Oh yeah, I'd never buy one to do anything but drive on the pavement. I usually can't stand "fake" SUV's, but that one is pretty slick. Just with it came in a real manual trans. Did anyone read the review of the XC90 in Motor Trend's SUV of the year? They loved it, one interesting thing about it is it's ETC being very good. Making it up a gravel/dirt path without any trouble and the H2 had to be put in 4low to get up. Interesting article. | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 451 Registered: 07-2002 |
No Paul, do not go to the dark side! Get a nice mercedes wagon when you need another larger vehicle. Your pig will disown you! | ||
| James P Groom (Jpg) New Member Username: Jpg Post Number: 5 Registered: 06-2003 |
I am surprised to see Porsche that high (#4) on the list. Go to any of the boxster boards and you will find scads of problems. Porsche had to replace many of the porous early blocks and the manual clutches can go out (not covered under warranty) early as 20k. I was looking at getting one but $200 for an oil change is too much, I guess you need to remove the exhaust. | ||
| Tim (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 495 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hi Zak- Believe it or not but I am still looking around. I've been consumed with Little League lately, so time has been tight. My 240 Volvo (185k miles!) is likely going to a buyer this weekend, so my RRC will become a daily driver for a while. The weekly gas bill for that beast will probaly motivate me to the replacement quickly! So how's the Saab running? The 900's are a great overall family car and fun to drive, I am sure it's working out well. | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 453 Registered: 07-2002 |
James, You also have to remember that porsche's are oil cooled, so they can have up to 20 quarts of oil in there, gets pretty pricey quick. Just doing it yourself would cost around 80-100. Tim, Our 9-3 is running great. Very fun car, well not as fun as the Miata I just sold, but so far no problems. I've put almost 10K on it, and couldn't be happier. Gets me a little more than 30mpg, and has a 17 gallon tank, so I love going over 450 miles between refills. I need to give it it's 60K service, but seems pretty easy to do. Plugs, wires, belts, so we'll see. Just not as good of online stores as there are for rovers, and Saab.net is not as fun as the rover sites either. But great car. | ||
| James P Groom (Jpg) New Member Username: Jpg Post Number: 6 Registered: 06-2003 |
Zak The Boxster and newer 911's are water cooled. The Boxster holds 10 quarts of oil. There are some other examples of outrageous expenses that I have seen on the Boxster boards, a DIY oil change would be $40 for oil and $17 for the filter and gasket. Jim Groom | ||
| Zak Ruck (Zak) Senior Member Username: Zak Post Number: 454 Registered: 07-2002 |
Thanks for the info James, haven't kept up with the newer porsches. Still 10 quarts of oil, holy crap! I couldn't buy a boxter because a few of the "High ups" here at my office have them as show pieces and they look like idiots driving them. Plus they also have them in auto. That is just wrong. | ||
| Kirk Thibault (Kirkt) Member Username: Kirkt Post Number: 91 Registered: 11-2002 |
My wife and I just bought a Volvo XC90 and for what it's worth, it is the safest vehicle in its class, in my opinion. It won Automotive Engineering (Society of Automotive Engineers' publication) Best Designed Vehicle of 2003 and it is exactly that. The thought that was put into the vehicle is a testament to good, functional design. The 2.5T is an inline 5-cyl light pressure turbo that gets over 20 mpg on the highway with torque achieving max beginning at 1500-1800 rpm. The safety systems are too numerous to mention, but include all of the standard traction/stability/yaw control components as well as a roll stability system that senses roll via onbaord gyros and forces the vehicle into understeer via abs and throttle input. Environmetally, the vehicle is 85% recycleable, the exhaust manifold is desiged to achieve faster light-off of the catalytic converter for lower emissions and the radiator is coated with a catalyst that coverts ground level ozone (bad smog component) to oxygen for crying out loud! The 7 seat version has side air curtains and seat belt pretensioners in all 3 seating rows and all of the seats except the driver's seat fold flat to give you versatility in interior loading. It will not do the offroad thing, the Volvo line is "We take you to the woods, not through it." It is not pretending to be an offroad monster, but it is the vehicle I would want my wife and daughter to be in during (god forbid) an accident. Much of the design was done in Volvo's California design studio, hence the recruitment of San Diego folks for feedback. Paul, let your wife win on this one. it was definitely a stretch on the budget, but well worth it in the long run. kirk |
