| Author | Message | ||
     Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 51 Registered: 05-2003 |
This is for a D2, commuting and wheeling. Are the 762 too much for a decent ride or are they OK?? thanks -Jim | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 189 Registered: 03-2003 |
Jim, I think the differences between the 781 and 762 springs are so small that it basically won't make any real difference for you. The 781 is 290 lbs. rate; the 762 is a 320 lbs. rate (progressive spring with 300 to 340 lbs., 320 average). 30 lbs. difference is very slight. I doubt you would even be able to tell the difference if you took the Pepsi Challenge. My advice would be to go with 781's if you carry very little in your D2. If you carry a lot of gear when you wheel (as you should), then go with the 762's. Again, it won't make any real difference which spring you go with. You're basically splitting hairs here. | ||
| Steve Rupp (Steve_rupp) New Member Username: Steve_rupp Post Number: 6 Registered: 03-2003 |
John, is there a noticable difference in spring height? I have RTE 3" springs all over and my rears are sagging terribly. I need a good 3" or 4" replacement. What do you recommend? Also is there something I can do to prevent the "disco lean"? | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 354 Registered: 03-2002 |
jim... john (of johnlee fame) helped me decide on 762's...great springs, so far i have been unlaiden for 99% of my travels, but have found them to bo a better ride than stock... you know, www.expeditionexchange.com has good info on ome stuff... | ||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 52 Registered: 05-2003 |
Michael, nice looking Disco in your profile. Thanks John and Michael for the input!! I think 762's it is. -Jim | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 195 Registered: 03-2003 |
Steve, I think the 781's are very slightly taller in freestanding height. Also, the 781's seem to give a slightly taller lift on unladen vehicles than the 762 does. That's just a guess because the difference is very slight and I've never bothered to measure on our installs. For your sagging springs, replace them with OME springs all around. My favorite lift set-up for the D1 is 764 front springs, 762 rear springs, 1.0" spacers under the rear springs, LTR01 or N73 front shocks, LTR04R or N44 rear shocks, and the Scorpion rear upper shock mounts. This is a very nice set-up. You can easily prevent the Disco lean. Just buy matched springs. | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 360 Registered: 03-2002 |
thanks jim, good luck with the install...i haven't looked back a moment since putting my ome's on...! | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1682 Registered: 02-2002 |
Soon, I am to replace the springs and shocks on the Pig. I replaced everything December '01 and since then I have installed an aftermarket front and rear bumper and a Warn winch. This added weight has caused my truck to settle an average of 1/2" all around. I have been debating about going to a 3" set up utilizing OME 751 front springs and 781 rear springs and adding the 1" spacer to the rear set. I am also looking at changing out the four shocks at the same time with the N107 front shocks and the N108 rear shocks. The reason for the debate is whether I should stay at a 2" set-up or risk vibration issues by going to 3" Paul | ||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 53 Registered: 05-2003 |
Paul, that is my quandry also the 751 will give the extra lift but what about vibration?? On "EE" the are a few D2's with that exact 3in lift and no mention of vibrations. I my running 265 m/t's which are approx 32in and for around town I was thinking 285/65R18 almost 33ins tall food for thought. -Jim | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1683 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jim, My 265 MTRs are 10.5 by 31.8 and there are some folks out there running larger 305/70 but I don't think going to much bigger is better for the D2. Going too big on the tires really starts zapping what little power you have now. Also you will have to start considering axels and shafts and maybe even regearing. John told me once that the D2 is less likely to experience vibration, but being the anal guy I am; I like hearing experiences from other people as well. | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 407 Registered: 10-2002 |
Paul, I'm in the same boat with regard to loss of lift from weighty additions. I'd say my sag is even more significant but I tend to have a pretty heavy truck. Right now I just can't decide whether it's better to just get new front springs and a spacer for the rear or go taller and relocate a longer shock as John Lee mentioned above. However, I'm doing this to a D1 rather than a D2. Do you know if either of our trucks are more likely than the other to produce vibe with the 3" EE style lift? | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1685 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jack, Sorry, I am the wrong person to ask in regards to a D1. How long have you had your springs? In the 19 months I have had mine, I have driven a lot of road trips loaded down with a lot of crap. There was a thread last year some time talking about spring sag and running heavy. I think that any spring will sag, and even more so if you actually run heavy on trails. When we hang all that heavy crap on our D's, it just shortens the life of the spring. At least in my mind.  | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 197 Registered: 03-2003 |
D1's are much more likely to get vibes than a D2. I have neither seen or heard of a D2 get driveline vibes with a 3" OME lift. The D1 has a standard front driveshaft that is out of phase from the factory. The D2 has a CV front driveshaft from the factory. The front driveshaft is shorter than the rear and thus suffers more of an angle change than the rear driveshaft when one lifts his truck. The front driveshaft is short enough that oftentimes driveline vibes result from an overbend in the driveshaft. This is on the D1. I have yet to see a D2 yet that had driveline vibes from a 3" lift. Paul, quit messing around and go with the 3" lift. 751 front springs, 781 or 762 rear springs (it really doesn't matter which, but for your Pig with rack and Trek rear bumper I recommend the 762's), N107 front shocks, N108 rear shocks, SD02 steering damper. The N107 and N108 are a little short for the 3" lift, but there are no other suitable shocks available for the D2. Bilsteins are even shorter than the OME's. And no, Rancho's are not a suitable shock. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a moron. If you look at the D2 shocks, you will see that they have proprietary methods of mounting. There are steel pillars in the upper and lower eyelets of the rear shocks. Without these pillars, you cannot properly tighten the shock mounts and obtain the bolt stretch you need to keep the bolts nice and tight. Also, the holes in the Ranchos' bushings are too large for the mounting bolts, resulting in loose shocks. Try installing a Rancho shock on a D2 and you will see that the shock mounts just squeeze and squeeze but never get tight. You ruin the shock mounts and have a jiggly shock to boot. The front shocks are similar. The upper eyelet for the front shocks have the same steel pillar and without the pillar, the shock tower will get mangled and the top of the front will always be loose because the bushing is too large for the mounting bolt. The lower end of the front shocks have a funky bar with two holes in it. I suppose you could make this bar for a Rancho shock, but then the shock would constantly be moving to and fro because the bushing would slide over the bar. Yuck. The N107 and N108 are not perfect for the 3" lift, but they are the best thing currently available and they are very suitable. But I guess if the rest of one's truck is a hunk of shit, it won't even matter if jiggly Rancho's are fitted and the shock mounts get mangled. For tires, we like the BF Goodrich Mud-Terrain KM in 265/75 on the stock alloys. These tires and rims give a very balanced and elegant look with the 3" lift: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/P1010009.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/azusa2/DCP_0347.jpg (not BFG's but the same size) 285/75, 305/70, 255/85 are all too big and require butchering this beautiful truck. Trimming is D2 is very difficult because of the fender flares. Any trimming at all looks butchered. I saw in the recent RoversNorth "newsletter" that RN is carrying those 16x7 steel rims. On these rims, I would prefer 235/85 because I like the look of skinny tires. But I don't like the look of steel wheels on a D2. Steel wheels just don't look right on the otherwise elegant D2. Steve, do your rear springs look like this: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/ome/Dsc01384.jpg LOL. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1687 Registered: 02-2002 |
Damn John, That pic is hidious! Thanks for the info. | ||
| Greg (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1283 Registered: 04-2002 |
I can attest to John's comment about the Rancho's. Don't waste your time. They are total shit. I was guided in this direction when I first did my 2" lift. This was not great advice because you end up mangling your shock mounts trying to make the Rancho's fit. Long story short, it makes life hell if you ever try to change back to OME, like I have now thanks to Ho & John, or even to stock. My question is, is the N107 and N108 the same that I have for my 2" lift? I can't remember. Also, when you go the OME 3" method on a D2, do you have to lengthen the brake/abs lines? | ||
| Chu Y. Son (Cyson) New Member Username: Cyson Post Number: 32 Registered: 01-2003 |
I'd say it's a safe bet to extend the lines. I didn't and got away with it, but at full flex, the lines are fully extended. | ||
| traveltoad (Traveltoad) Member Username: Traveltoad Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2002 |
John Lee helped me with a 3" lift on a DII. Easy! No modifications necessary and no vibrations! The truck rides better than stock. Now, if I could only get rid of those Kumho tires... | ||
| Greg Bright (Gregd2) Member Username: Gregd2 Post Number: 86 Registered: 06-2002 |
I ran 751's and 762's with stock shocks on my D2 for a year, then I switched to 779's and N107's in the front and 763's and N108's in the rear for two and a half more years. I ran 265x75's for the first two years and then switched to 255x85's for the last year. After running these different combos, I would run 751's in the front and 763's in the rear. I like the stiffer springs and they worked really well with no swaybars. The 763's handle loads better and the additional weight of the D2 make the 763's ride very nice. If I was going to run 779's in the front, I would use 762's in the rear. As far as tires go, in my opinion, the D2's drivetrain isn't strong enough for tires larger than 265x75's. I didn't start breakin' shit until I added that extra inch of tire. Then shit started poppin' all over the place. I know people are gonna say that they've used 33" tires on a D2 with no problem. I'm betting they haven't run them very long or they haven't run them very hard. If they have, they're on borrowed time. That's why I bought a D1. I figured I'd rather spend my money on good upgrades for a D1 than keep throwing money into that sorry ass D2. Now, on my D1, I have 764's and N73's up front and the same 763's I had on my D2 with 1" spacers from EE and N44's with $G drop kit. This is by far the best suspension I've used so far. I'm really happy with the results. To get the 255's off my D2 to fit on my D1 I've had to also add Rovertym links and a GBR front driveshaft. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 200 Registered: 03-2003 |
"is the N107 and N108 the same that I have for my 2" lift? I can't remember." Yes, the N107 and N108 are the shocks designed for the OME 2" life, e.g., 777/779 front springs and 781/762 rear springs. That's why the N107 and N108 shocks are a little short for the OME 3" lift. "Also, when you go the OME 3" method on a D2, do you have to lengthen the brake/abs lines?" No, this is not necessary. Even though the D2 has a taller freestanding height with the OME 3" lift, the shocks are still the 2" OME shocks and thus the axle cannot drop beyond the length of the shocks. In other words, your brake hoses and ABS wires "don't know the difference" between the 2" and 3" OME lifts. In fact, extending the brake hoses is a waste of time without extending the ABS wires that run parallel to the brake hoses. That is why I have always been puzzled by those who sell extended D2 brake hoses. What good are these things unless one extends the ABS wires? I've heard of guys cutting and splicing in new wires into the ABS wires. Eeeeeeeeeek! This is vehicle butchery. I've also heard of a readily available extension with one male end and one female end that can be used to extend the ABS wires, but have yet to see such a thing. Given the fact that the N107 and N108 are currently the longest suitable shocks for the D2, I think extending the brake hoses and ABS is a waste of time and money, at least for the time being. That situation may change if other suitable shocks become available. "Now, if I could only get rid of those Kumho tires..." You know how they say it takes only one scoop of shit to ruin an entire bucket of vanilla ice cream? Well, those tires are that scoop of shit. Your 03 is one of the nicest D2's, if not THE nicest D2, around. Bitchin silver color. Black leather interior. OME 3" lift. Safety Devices rack. Genuine Land Rover ladder. That is all superb. And then stick on those Kumho's? Reminds me of those cheap fucks who wear nice clothes to impress but are given away by their cheap shoes. You can always tell people by their shoes. A real gentleman wears first class shoes. | ||
| John Friederich (Jfriedlvcmcom) Member Username: Jfriedlvcmcom Post Number: 56 Registered: 02-2003 |
John - I thought you could always tell people by their watch. A real gentleman wears a first class watch. My first Rado is 19 years old, but still looks brand new, has rarely been off my wrist, and I'm partial to Ecco shoes for the comfort factor, plus I can play basketball in them. Can you say the same for your Keds? Or your 'Alpha' or whatever it is called? John Friederich Las Vegas, NV D2 | ||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 55 Registered: 05-2003 |
John Lee, You said perfectly, I read it this morning at work and actually read it out-loud to a co worker. I have a Silver D2 so he thought you were talking about my Truck...LOL. I said "what kind of tires do I have?" He said "Oh yeah you're righ" Thanks again for your expertise!! -Jim | ||
| exrover1 (Exrover1) New Member Username: Exrover1 Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2003 |
What an incerdibly informative and civilized thread. Thank you to all. |
