| Author | Message | ||
     John Lombos (Rover4us) Member Username: Rover4us Post Number: 51 Registered: 02-2003 |
If anyone on the board has a family dog that has a deep barrell chest or a breed prone to gastric tortion "bloat", I would suggest looking into gastropexy. This is a preventative surgery that sews part of the stomach lining to the rib cage to prevent the stomach from twisting on its axis. Our retreiver recently got bloat and I caught it in time for him to have emergency surgery. Part of his stomach died and was taken out. A week and half left and we should be out of the woods as far as complications and infection. We went ahead and scheduled for gastropexy for our Great Dane so we don't have to spend a "little" fortune again to save his life from this type of thing. | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 911 Registered: 02-2002 |
geez, i hate to hear that, i have two GSPs and a WIEM. both breeds are in that risk group and we really watch over them at feedings but bloat is nasty and extremely painful for the dog. please keep me informed on your retreier's progress. mike w | ||
| John Lombos (Rover4us) Member Username: Rover4us Post Number: 53 Registered: 02-2003 |
We do ALL preventatives. Split meals, seperate during meals, no playing after meals, drinking large quantities of water at one time not allowed. It just happened. My retreiver is nutorious for not showing pain or discomfort. I had to take a shot in the dark and guess as to why he couldn't get comfortable and couldn't hold down water or food. I guess when there is a knott at the end of the esophagus-there really isn't any room for anythiing to go but back out. His stomach wasn't big like you would normally see in a bloat case. I gave him an exam and noticed it was like a bag overstuffed with sand...very hard. He is out of the woods as far as complications with his heart (from shock and trauma) now we are just praying his stomach holds out. Yes-I have read that Weims are prone to this "accident". It really is a bad situation to be in. | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 920 Registered: 02-2002 |
its sorta like kids, you do everything right but they will get hurt. my wife have no kids and our three dogs have become family, they do that, those warm eyes and cold noses, they get to your heart and forever become a part of your soul. lonely is the man that has never been loved by a dog. again let me know how it goes. mike w | ||
| One_Bad_Metro (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 436 Registered: 02-2002 |
Agreed, my two Mini Schnauzers are family. I've had Mini Schnauzers since I was a kid and just love the affection that they and all dogs give. Someone once told me that one of the few types unconditional love on this planet is the love from dogs. | ||
| Daniel McElroy (Danielm60660) New Member Username: Danielm60660 Post Number: 28 Registered: 05-2003 |
Another thing to help prevent bloat... I have three dogs, two Rotties and a Pit mix. I also own a kennel so I have seen this first hand. The Rotties are prone to bloat. I feed my dogs a raw diet and recomend it to my clients..real meat as nature intended. The grain content and bulk of commercial dry foods are not healthy for dogs. Best example is my partner's 13 y/o GSD. Now, a 13 y/o German Shepherd is not all that special, but this one still get's his old A$$ over a six foot fence whenever asked. This dog has eaten nothing but raw chicken (bone intact) his whole life. As it relates to this discussion, however, real meat has much higher nutrient content per pound, so each individual feeding is lower in quantity, thereby reducing the chance of the stomach twisting. Also, the grain portion of the dog food is responsible for the majority of the "fermenation" of the stomach content. There is a ton of info on the web and you will find people who say good and bad. I have seen too many dogs however that hae recovered from skin, coat, joint (mild) issues and so on to deny that it works. | ||
| Jacquelyne Davis (Jmdavis) New Member Username: Jmdavis Post Number: 10 Registered: 06-2003 |
Good thread. After all, it IS "Rover" related! I wish I had the time to feed all-natural homemade meals everyday for my pups. I've got a 12 y/o German Shephard and a 6 y/o British Black Lab, who frequetly get raw meat in addition to their human-grade kibble. I'm in the process of changing my lab's diet to a senior kibble to avoid the fat-lab syndrome, and am considering putting them on the same food. After doing much research, I was amazed to find what grocery-store or PetSmart dog foods were really made of- totally disgusting!...My pups ARE my children, and there is no way I could ever feed them that. I wish more people were considerate of their pets and their diets. I'm amazed at people who pay upwards of a couple thousand dollars for the "perfect" breed, only to feed them dog chow their entire lives... John, I hope for the best recovery for your retreiver! Thanks for the info, too. Cheers, Jacquelyne | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 922 Registered: 02-2002 |
Nutros, is a brand of food you will fund at petsmart. it is also the food our dogs eat, and it is one of the few dog foods that is human consumable....yum yum. we feed all three the high enegry varity. most folks balk at the price but like we all agree, these are family not pets. mike w | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior Member Username: Karen Post Number: 156 Registered: 02-2002 |
John, I had to go to my equine vet's home today to have some samples tested, and I asked her what she knew about this preventative surgery for the dogs. She was well aware of it. I knew many large dog breeds had bloat problems, but never knew they were doing preemptive surgery to combat it. I wish they could do the same for horses. We suffer through the rigors of colic all the time, despite all the right practices we employ. We lost our most talented horse in December to a twisted gut, esentially the same thing as bloat in dogs. Over the the years we have lost a few others to colic, which remains the number one killer of horses. Thanks for the dog info and best luck to you and your pup in his recovery. Karen | ||
| Sus (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 471 Registered: 06-2002 |
Good to hear about the options available...I hope your pups will be free and clear soon! My Aussie/English Shepherd mix has been on Nutro since day 1, and although I had wanted to get her on a raw diet, her stomach doesn't seem able to handle the richness. We have tried feeding her meat on occasion and she always seems to be worse for it. Daniel, do you ever find that some dogs just aren't capable of eating raw food? And if so, is there a way around that? Karen, I'm sorry to hear about your horse. We have had a few ponies in my life that battled colic on occasion and it always terrifies me. | ||
| Jacquelyne Davis (Jmdavis) New Member Username: Jmdavis Post Number: 12 Registered: 06-2003 |
A word to the wise about Nutro Products: I used to feed my German Shephard Nutro's Natural Choice High Energy. As a mid-grade premium dog food, it has many fine ingredients, such as chicken and lamb meal, dried kelp, lots of vitamins and minerals, and I liked that they used all natural tocopherols as preservatives, instead of BHA or BHT. However, their listing of ingredients is very misleading; they still use too many fillers. Corn gluten meal, dried beet pulp, rice bran, and rice flour are just food fragments and low cost by-products that are difficult to digest and can cause allergies for many dogs. It gets worse. Their kibble might be all natural, but it is NOT human grade. The FDA tested some lots of dog food, one of the brands being Nutro. Nutro tested positive for containing sodium pentobarbitol, which is a commonly used drug for the euthanization of dogs, cats, horses, and other pets. This means that the rendering plants that Nutro Products purchases their "meats" from also renders dead dogs, cats, and horses! Now, scientifically, the traces of sodium pentobarbitol that were found are not likely to harm your pet if fed on a daily basis for the duration of it's life. But I personally could not live with the fact that my pup might be eating one of his own... Another thing to consider in regards to the Nutro Products is that they also have their non-premium commercial pet food called Nutro Max. I often wonder if they ever mixed their ingredients (intentional or not) with their Natural Choice line, because on occasion, my shephard would go through random shedding bouts unlike his normal shed, and would itch more or not eat his food at all. Every time, he would check out ok at the vet. Upon switching his kibble to a high grade premium, he has maintained a steady shed cycle, his health has been consistent, and he only poops once a day (it's as small as cat poop, and firm). I agree with the statement that if it works for your pet, then that's what works. But do your research and you'll see that Nutro is regarded by many breeders and animal nutritionists as a fine, all natural mid-grade premium commercial pet food, but it IS NOT considered human grade in the pet food industry. A good point of reference is the Whole Dog Journal; check it out online. Here's the link to the report findings from the FDA http://www.fda.gov.cvm/efoi/DFreport.doc Cheers, Jacquelyne | ||
| Jacquelyne Davis (Jmdavis) New Member Username: Jmdavis Post Number: 13 Registered: 06-2003 |
Here's the correct link, as I copied the above link incorrectly: http://www.fda.gov/cvm/efoi/DFreport.doc also http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-03.htm | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 926 Registered: 02-2002 |
wow, thanks jacqueline for the heads up....maybe its time to go back to BillJack... mike w | ||
| Jacquelyne Davis (Jmdavis) New Member Username: Jmdavis Post Number: 14 Registered: 06-2003 |
Hi Mike, I am not sponsored by any of the following brands, but I do recommend any of the following human grade kibbles: Canidae, Innova & California Natural (both Natura products), Flint River Ranch, and Solid Gold (there are others, still, but that's a good start). Since you are already used to paying around $30 for a 35lb-40lb bag of Nutro, most of these are only a few dollars more. You will also find that you feed even less, so it actually is more cost-efficient, especially if raw food is given as a supplement. Most of the dealers I've found will gladly hand out free samples, so your pups can do the taste test, and so YOU can decide which kibble will meet the nutritional needs and be best for your companions. A good thing about these brands of foods is that they are always fresher, as they are made in smaller batches and always have the batch date on the label, and are not bought in mass quantities and then ware-housed for months at a time. One of the reasons you don't find them at the chain pet food stores is because of the cost of shelf space; PetSmart, for example, will only sell pet foods that pay a fee to be in their store. The premium kibble makers would rather spend that money on research to create a better product. They are also able to use better ingredients because most don't mass-advertise. Don't get me wrong, I still buy toys and books at PetSmart (because they are cheaper there). In no way am I bashing PetSmart. I'm just trying to spread the word to keep our Rover Rovers healthy and happy! Cheers, Jacquelyne | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 929 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jacquelyne, really thanks, i appericate your words. as i have said my dogs are my family and i attempt to give them the very best (unlike my Land Rover i am not a cheap bastard with the K9s....lol) and i will look about for those brands, my sister in law has a feed store in southern Oh i may twist her arm and get her to stock me a bit. there are not to many speciality dog stores in my area. i am not much of a petsmart fan. they are really over priced for what you get. i usally hit yards sales and buy up all the stuffed aniamls there, after a good wash and five minutes with these kids and theres not too much left over to hang onto. mike w | ||
| Sus (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 473 Registered: 06-2002 |
Wow, thanks for the heads up Jacquelyne! I too will look for those brands...I try to buy all natural and organic products for myself...why not my dog?! I have heard a few sporadic reports about sodium pentobarbitol, but was unaware of it's source and presence in commercial dog food. I'm adding the Whole Dog Journal to my favorites! Cheers, S | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 893 Registered: 09-2002 |
interesting read... back in my homeland, my dog had scraps from the table and other human food. he lived to full 13 years, and died of cancer. no food allergies ever. Here, my airedale develops allergy to nearly any dog food besides Innova, it may happen in a day with a cheap grocery-store stuff, or gradually in a couple of weeks with Eukanuba or Iams. He's a perfectly healthy 5-years old, and his teeth are clean and breath fresh, which I haven't seen in my dogs before. I attributed it to the food; are you guys saying I should at least supplement it with raw meat or chicken? peter | ||
| Jacquelyne Davis (Jmdavis) New Member Username: Jmdavis Post Number: 15 Registered: 06-2003 |
Hi Peter, I would say it's up to you to decide. Look at the ingredients of Innova: Whole Chicken, eggs, cottage cheese, apples, vegetables of which I can't remember... YOU could eat this food if you needed to! If your Airedale is doing great on this then he's probably getting everything he needs nutritionally. Some dogs do not take well to a diet of kibble and raw food, anyhow, even if it is balanced. The hard part is knowing how much raw meat to give them in proportion to the kibble, so that they are not getting too much protein. You just have to experiment to find the right balance. The raw meat diet Daniel was speaking of is slowing gaining popularity in the US among many dog owners. It's commonly referred to as the BARF diet (no joke). Biologically Adequate Raw Food, or Bones and Raw Food. See http://www.barfdiet.com With this diet, there is no kibble fed whatsoever. There are several books about this diet, too. What's interesting to me is they give entire chicken carcasses to their pups, bone and all. I always thought it was dangerous to give dogs chicken bones, but I guess its only if they've been cooked. Raw chicken bones are softer. I still haven't gone so far as giving my pups chicken bones with their meat; only the chicken. I do give them large beef bones from the butcher that still have nice chunks of meat on them, and they are able to lick all the good stuff out of the center of the bone, too. (I learned my lesson on that one-only give them bones outside- carpet too expensive!) Also, on a good day fly fishing the pups get their own fresh-out-of-the-water fish, guts and all, to devour on their own. Pretty neat to watch how they eat the fish. Usually heads first! (that is also how I got them to be patient while I fished. They used to splash in the water, scaring the fish, but now they know to watch and wait and get rewarded). Hey Sus, I see you are a Rovergirl, too! It would be nice if that site had a forum, so we girls could chat...no offense to the guys!! | ||
| Robbie Donaldson (Robbie) Senior Member Username: Robbie Post Number: 406 Registered: 02-2002 |
hopefully we don't lose you gals, but check out: http://www.rovergirls.com for your escape from testosterone  | ||
| Jacquelyne Davis (Jmdavis) New Member Username: Jmdavis Post Number: 17 Registered: 06-2003 |
That's the site to which I was referring to. They don't have a forum...Sus and I are both on there-check it out! Just don't laugh at my tires...I'm still deciding which to get (and if I wear these down enough, hopefully I'll get two sets of tires-one for the trails, and one for winter driving to the backcountry and resorts). | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 94 Registered: 02-2003 |
I have had very good luck and like what I am seeing from Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy, both wet and dry. But on the other hand I have heard a lot of good things about the natural diet. The breeder where I got him also swore by vitamins and good excercise routines. btw: John I hope everything turns out well, I dont think I could handle seeing my buddy sick. -leo http://www.clan-m4.com/troll/armin/arm1.jpg | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 895 Registered: 09-2002 |
thanks Jacquelyne, we've been always taught not to give hollow chicken bones (or similar) for the dog to chew, and that dogs don't chew and just swallow stuff. I've long since found this not to be true; dogs take great pleasure in chewing all kinds of nuts. Other bones... on one trip, club member gave my dog (with my permission) the pork rib to clean; he chewed and ate the whole thing without a millisecond of hesitation. I spent a night watching him - but he was just perfectly fine! peter | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 468 Registered: 02-2002 |
Hey all, After reading this thread and doing some research of my own, I'm going to try and become a distributor for Flint River Ranch dog food. They require a minimum 80 lb/month sales in order to remain a distributor. My dogs eat about 20 lbs / month, so if I get 3 other people committed, we can get this stuff at a little cheaper rate than full retail. Anyone else interested? | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 983 Registered: 02-2002 |
i am, send me some info on the food itself, cost and shipping to the 45368 area code. mike w | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 984 Registered: 02-2002 |
thanks Koby, my wife and i will discuss the food change, we go thru about 160# a month so you will get your quota. i will be in touch. mike w | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 470 Registered: 02-2002 |
http://www.flint-river-ranch.info/home.htm This is the actual site. | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 471 Registered: 02-2002 |
Mike- Our dogs have been on the food for a month now and the stuff is great. The dogs have had no adverse reaction to the food. When we last did a switch, they had upset stomachs for a while, but this time around the behavior has been normal, and they have had normal stool as well. | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 111 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Koby I might be able to help you get to your quote too i am gonna read up on that food now.. -leo | ||
| Jacquelyne Davis (Jmdavis) New Member Username: Jmdavis Post Number: 20 Registered: 06-2003 |
My lab would not eat Flint River, but that is a great food. My sister-in-law has two Berners, and their fur is just luxurious! On a truly sad note, my German Shephard that I was speaking of died on Wednesday. His name was Moab, and he was such a beautiful boy. We found out on Monday that he had lymphoma, and that he would be gone within a week because it had gotten into his digestive track. There was nothing we could do. He checked out fine at his last visit to the vet this past winter. We decided to not let him waste away, as he was deteriorating at a fast pace; it's almost as though he was ready to go anyway. We had him put to sleep in our home. He died peacefully, in our arms, with his best buddy Shadow choosing to be at his side. I'm still crying, we miss him so much. I cannot believe he is gone. We don't have children; our dogs are are children, and I feel so lost without him. He was so big yet so gentle and sweet. His presence is sorely missed... Only now do I wish we had taken pictures more consistently throughout his life. At least we had some time to say goodbye. We took him to his favorite spot, Caribou Creek, and let him romp in the water. He lived such a happy life all the way to the end. We witnessed his private cremation Thursday morning; his ashes are now with us, and when I go wheeling, I will take him with me in the rover. I have such an empty feeling in my stomach right now. At the beginning of this thread, he was alive, and he seemed healthy and fine...I'm so sad! It hurts and I want him back. | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 987 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jacquelyne, I am sorry for your loss, i know to well that pain.....Just as my Kanga waits for me, your Moab will be waiting for you on the other side of the rainbow bridge, be sure to bring a pocket full of treats. mike w | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior Member Username: Karen Post Number: 166 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jacquelyne, I'm terribly sorry to hear about your loss. I think a lot of us have been in your shoes and can empathise. Letting go sooner rather than later was your last gift to him. I agree about taking pictures, we seem to never take enough. I hope you can take some comfort in the joy of Moab's memory, he'll never leave your heart. Best wishes to you. Karen | ||
| Tim (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 509 Registered: 12-2002 |
Jacquelyne, I am very sorry about the loss of your friend Moab. I lost my best buddy "Woody" about a year ago and it still pains me. He lived to almost 12 years and died of cancer. He is now buried in our pasture, his favorite place to run and play. I know it hurts for a long time, but the memories you will always have. Tim | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 422 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jacquelyne, Really sorry to hear about your loss. As well you know, dogs are family and best friends all at the same time and there loss is just as painful as any human. Parents should never have to outlive their children, but with dogs this is a fact of life that none of us can escape. Of course, you can never get past him, but hopefully when you think of him, you'll think fondly. best, Jack | ||
| Sus (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 479 Registered: 06-2002 |
Jacquelyne, I'm so sorry to hear about Moab. Especially with all the discussion we have had about good nutrition and taking the best care possible of our canine friends...it just doesn't seem fair. I know that you will miss him forever, but I hope that the pain soon subsides and you will be able to enjoy the beautiful memories that you have of him. Take care Susannah | ||
| Jacquelyne Davis (Jmdavis) New Member Username: Jmdavis Post Number: 21 Registered: 06-2003 |
Thank you everyone for your kind words. The reality of him not being here anymore has finally taken hold; my husband and I yesterday were able to laugh at some of the silly things he did when he was a puppy, like taking one shoe from each new pair that I had bought on a shopping spree and literally chewing them to pieces, and how one time at the park he got hold of an unsuspecting child's soccer ball, volleyed it around for awhile, then popped a hole in it! He loved to play soccer and he was so good at keeping the ball away from you. Really, thank you for your support. Jacquelyne | ||
| Kim S (Roverine) Senior Member Username: Roverine Post Number: 444 Registered: 03-2002 |
My condolences as well. Gosh, it's been awhile since I've checked in here - Went to see what "Gastropexy" was about, and read the thread with a heaviness my heart - We just put my old Boxer down in June. Lived to be almost 12. His hips/hind end just gave out. Almost thought this might happen last summer, but low & behold, "old bony head" suddenly got better ... Can barely count the number of tumors we've had excised from him (one was even malignant about 3 years ago). This time there was no question ... It's just so hard to play "God" and be the one to make the decision, but worse to watch the confusion and suffering on their face and in their eyes. I'm just starting to get used to him being gone & every now and then I think I'm hearing a phantom woof or two. You did the right thing, the courageous thing to not let him suffer. And yes, you'll always have the memories. Best wishes to you and all who have had to part with their loved ones ("all creatures, great and small"). Kim | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior Member Username: Karen Post Number: 167 Registered: 02-2002 |
Geez Kim, I'm so sorry to hear this. I do recall you saying he was not doing well last summer, but the old boy pulled out another year, bless him! Even in our loses, it's nice to know so many animals are so well loved. Hooray for all the people who do right by their pets. I hope you soon can recall your boy with more happiness and less sadness. Karen | ||
| Tim (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 511 Registered: 12-2002 |
OMG I love Boxers. My sister had a Boxer/Shepard mix, we just called him a Boxhard. You would swear he had the hardest head on earth. He would move quickly upwards and smack you in the nose or forehead just about knocking you out. Naturally he would not even flinch! Ahhh... the memories of "Mr. Socks". |
