| Author | Message | ||
     Mike (Mkm2000) New Member Username: Mkm2000 Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2003 |
I've had my RR for a little over a year and its been a blast so far, but I'm starting to want a little bit more kick from the motor. I'm not too sure where to start to get the most bang for my money, so any advice would be great | ||
| Alan Bates (Alanb) Senior Member Username: Alanb Post Number: 255 Registered: 07-2002 |
Perfomance in a Rover? That's a misnomer. Rover's are not known for performance, could put free flow cats and exhaust system, or put one of these in: http://www.rovercannibal.com/subpages.php?page=motor5 Seriously, I would leave the engine as stock as possible, do a complete tune up, new plugs, wires, change all fluids, etc. and save money for the repairs. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 882 Registered: 09-2002 |
Mike, you won't get any more kick out of your motor, but you'll like it more if you regear your axles. The caveat is that it doesn't make sense to regear to less than 4.1:1, and it'll be a bit overkill with stock tires. | ||
| Mike (Mkm2000) New Member Username: Mkm2000 Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2003 |
What exactly will that do? | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 884 Registered: 09-2002 |
you'll put 16% more torque down to the wheels, which alone will net you 16% improvement in acceleration. more importantly, it will bring the peak torque down to more useable speeds. for instance, with the gearing your stock '94 has, 75mph occur near 2600-2700 rpm. Your engine's rated at its peak torque at 3250rpm. That makes it a dog in top gear at highway speeds, and no passing power unless you downshift to the 3rd. Regearing from stock 3.54 to 4.11 will result in your engine turning 3100-3200 rpm, near the peak torque. I have experienced results from getting rid of a 16% overdrive (similar to what you get by regearing to 4.11), and it felt like I've got a little supercharger under the hood. Now, if you could keep your driving habits unchanged, you'd get a little better city gas mileage and a little worse - highway (if you live in Colorado, it'll be better all around). The problem is that it becomes so tempting to floor it at the light, that all gains in fuel economy vanish. There is another, better, way to accomplish a similar conversion (change gears in transfer case), but AFAIK it is not available to newer-than-89 RR owners unless you want to change the transfer case. The LT230 used in pre-89 RR, D1, and Defenders can be had with 1.4:1 high range ratio (or gears swapped with those from D110). Almost the same overall gearing change. | ||
| Mike (Mkm2000) New Member Username: Mkm2000 Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2003 |
So I should change the gear ratios, replace the exhaust system, is there anything else that I can do? And who makes good exhaust parts that work with RR's? | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 885 Registered: 09-2002 |
your choices of catalytic converters are very limited, and the replacements aren't likely to flow much better than stockers. If your rangie still has original cats, replacing them will net you some power gains because they are likely to be half-clogged. You can replace the muffler and resonator with a FlowMaster piece, with exhaust note not likely to please you. All of the above will set you back anywhere from $500 to a grand. Depending on whether you can do the diff gears yourself, or how expensive your local shops are, you may be better off with regearing. I have not regeared any of my rovers; those who did can chime in - my guess is changing 3.54 to 4.11 would make you feel you've got a Buick 350 under the hood. | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 397 Registered: 09-2002 |
I'm getting a regeared LT230 (1.4 high range) installed this week in my 93 LWB - finally - I'll let ya know how it works out. With 32" tires I should end up with about a 5% improvement over stock. And I get to play with a manual CDL  | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 887 Registered: 09-2002 |
you're the man, Steve. where'd you get the LT230 and gears? | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 80 Registered: 03-2003 |
Yeah, do tell Steve! | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 398 Registered: 09-2002 |
The LT230 is a low mileage from a wreck and the gears were ordered from Ashcroft. British Car Service/Rover Recycler supplied all the parts including the CDL linkage and hopefully a DII front shaft, and is also doing the rebuild and install. I'm getting a Truetrac in the front while I'm in the mood. I'm excited! | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 888 Registered: 09-2002 |
awesome. | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 402 Registered: 09-2002 |
Just picked up the truck You know you have no life when the highlight of your week (month?) is seeing that little black knob with the words 'diff lock' engraved on it. The Truetrac might take a few days to get used to on the street - awesome return to center. No dirt yet, I'll report back... | ||
| Jason Walker (Dosed) New Member Username: Dosed Post Number: 27 Registered: 03-2003 |
I'm green with envy !!! NICE! | ||
| David Woo (Davidwoo) New Member Username: Davidwoo Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2003 |
Hey Steve: this might warrant a new thread, with reports on how the LT and the TT are working out. Our friend in Torrance says the front TT will cure the steering wander problem in the RRC: would like to hear your experiences with it. Thanks, David Woo | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 403 Registered: 09-2002 |
David, Well, I won't be off-road until next weekend, but so far it's a blast. I'm still running without a steering damper until I can fab. the frame mount. The Truetrac took less time than I thought to get used to, and yes, it cures the steering wander. The LT does not have the whine that I expected due to the superb rebuild by Dave at BCS and the 1.41:1 high range keeps the revs. in the happy range So far I have no regrets, I'm looking forward to Big Bear. Getting up the mountain should be the easy part for a change. Oh, the speedo is WAY off (15% low) but I'll live with that. Going back to the original post, I wouldn't suggest a regear with stock tires. Get the truck running in peak condition and put in a high flow exhaust. The first mod I did was the NRP exhaust system. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 911 Registered: 09-2002 |
David, even the rear Truetrac helps. It seems to work like one big yaw damper. Steve - have you disassembled the whole front axle, or just unbolted the swivel housings? peter | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 404 Registered: 09-2002 |
Peter, I have previously disassembled the front axle but not this time, they just unbolted the inner flanges. Actually, I just had one swivel rebuilt a couple of months ago and the other adjusted. The steering feels good finally. I put on a Rockware drag link with a Defender eye end for the damper and a Rockware offset tie rod, all new ball joints, Meridian box and now the Truetrac. Why couldn't Land Rover just do that in the first place goddammit. What's next? ARB vs Detroit for the rear - I know THAT hasn't been debated before | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 917 Registered: 09-2002 |
Steve, how long did it take you to swap the front 3rd member with just unbolting the flanges? | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 406 Registered: 09-2002 |
It took me just a few minutes to drop off the truck at the shop I wish I'd had the time to do it myself. Not sure how long it took to setup the Truetrac but it was all back together by lunchtime. Would have probably taken me a weekend and some help to lift the third member. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 710 Registered: 02-2003 |
that's cause british men are dandies..  | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 408 Registered: 09-2002 |
easy there Lounge boy, I've spent enough weekends covered in toxic shit for one lifetime. I even changed a Meridian in less than 12 hours  | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 711 Registered: 02-2003 |
my latest was 4hr in and out and that included removing one from my parts car! | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 922 Registered: 09-2002 |
Steve, the 3rd member ain't that heavy, you can hold it with one arm once you put it in place. It is fairly simple and quick to set up a TT (if you aren't replacing gears at the same time). | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 872 Registered: 02-2002 |
But rob - how many hours the first time! Bill | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 409 Registered: 09-2002 |
Yeah yeah, I know I should have done it myself, but the guy was already well dirty doing the t-case (now that's heavy) so I figured what the heck just give him the damn TT and be done with it - and the brake accumulator, engine mount and Panhard rod bushings | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 712 Registered: 02-2003 |
12, 6 and 4 but i did but in my own TT ,lickety split, in an hour and a half. longest part was getting the wheel off. that's when i broke my torque wrench and 1/2 extension. ;) | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 925 Registered: 09-2002 |
Rob, that must've been a rear TT. | ||
| Jason Walker (Dosed) Member Username: Dosed Post Number: 50 Registered: 03-2003 |
"Well, I won't be off-road until next weekend, but so far it's a blast" Allright Cooper -- out with it... How is she offroad?? | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 414 Registered: 09-2002 |
I should start a new thread but I'm a lazy bastard, and it's all kind of along the same lines - increasing the performance of an LWB. First off, let me briefly repeat what I just did. My VC had seized in the BW t-case, so I seized (sorry) the opportunity to swap the t-case for an LT230 with manual CDL. Unhappy with the on-road performance, I had the high ratio regeared to 1.41:1 - BW was 1.2:1. At the same time I had a Truetrac installed in the front and a DII DC front drive shaft. I also put new (slightly used) XZLs on the back. Having done all those things at the same time, it becomes harder to attribute improvements to a single upgrade but I will say this - the truck absolutely kicked ass this weekend - I'm still smiling I should add that my ABS/ETC is working perfectly, and when you throw in the CDL and a front Truetrac, I'm impressed. Now, I know a fully locked vehicle would be somewhat more capable but for the trails I've done in the past and this weekend - I repeat, I'm still smiling. I didn't feel any wheel spin from the front and very brief ETC. So, off-road, totally pleased with the upgrades - the most fun I've had with my clothes on. On the street, took a little longer to impress me. The Truetrac took a day or so to get used to - now I love it. The regeared high was initially not the night and day I hoped for, but now is totally cool - I just wasn't used to hammering the gas - it never made any difference in the past. I was mistaken about the speedo - it's dead on with my GPS. What's weird is the torque converter locks at 46 now instead of 52 - I may try and address that although I'm getting used to it. Acceleration on the freeway is much improved especially in the 60 to 80 range - it revs 3000 at 75 in top - close to the torque peak (3250 I think). On top of that I have NO vibes. I didn't fully realize that until I got out of LA and onto some smooth maintained roads. Totally happy, at least 'til I get my credit card statement | ||
| Jason Walker (Dosed) Member Username: Dosed Post Number: 52 Registered: 03-2003 |
Wow. What a great excuse to get things sorted. Did you upgrade your axles with the Truetrac? I was talking to JL about putting a Detroit in the rear but I learned that the 24 spline stockers I have in the rear of my 95 need to be upgraded as well, so I am saving up some dosh for that... Take a look at this video clip; it took me a couple attempts to get over this simple obstacle, while having to hammer on the gas. The slow approach was not working. I would much prefer to be able to "crawl" along... http://www.kangol.net/LWB/movies/CIMG1046.AVI Thoughts? Man, well done on the upgrades you dawg! | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 415 Registered: 09-2002 |
Yeah, ya don't wanna do too many of those 'running jump' maneuvers. I was able to "crawl" over boulders that would have required much more momentum with my open diff. and I know it helped pull the rear over too since the ETC was a lot less active. I didn't upgrade the front axles, they are stock 24 spline. We'll see how it goes, I don't think the Truetrac is quite as harsh on the axles as a Detroit would be in the rear. I would certainly do the rear axles either prior to or at the same time as a rear locker. I'm torn between a Detroit and an ARB, but definitely GBR axles. | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 85 Registered: 03-2003 |
guys, I have a LT230 from an '87RRC and a LT230 from a '99 DII. If I understand correctly, the '87 unit should have the 1.4:1 HI ratio? I was hoping to use the '99 unit for more quietness but the ratio will be the same as a BW, right? Does it make sense to move the hi range gears from the old to the new case? | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 419 Registered: 09-2002 |
Ali, I believe only the '93 D110 came 1.41:1 stock. RRCs with LTs range from 1.0:1 to 1.22:1 stock. The BW high is 1.2:1. You can get the 1.41:1 gear set (3 gears) from GBR or Ashcroft - they'll need to know the exact LT they're going in. | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 88 Registered: 03-2003 |
I was afraid you'd say that! That gearset is too costly. I can wait! Thanks. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 954 Registered: 09-2002 |
Steve, to fully clear your doubts, you should run this trail in the other direction, as well as Holcomb Creek ...still green with envy for your tires. | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 427 Registered: 09-2002 |
Peter, I'd love to run Dishpan from the bottom. I'm not sure if that would be harder or easier, gravity can be a bitch as we found out. Holcomb looked like fun too, maybe next year. Those tires, I love 'em. I get some interseting reactions, especially from neighbors with Jeeps/Fords etc.. "Your tires are um err narrow" they don't know quite what to make of them, they won't dismiss them in case we go wheeling and I kick their ass, and they won't commit to a compliment either, very stealthy | ||
| Paul Reyes (Paulr) New Member Username: Paulr Post Number: 40 Registered: 01-2003 |
I was wishing I was right behind you this last weekend so I could watch the beast in action. Sounds like my next upgrade will be a True trac up front. | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 429 Registered: 09-2002 |
Nah, right behind me wasn't a good spot to be in, ask Tom | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 962 Registered: 09-2002 |
Well Steve, it looks like we need a snow run in Big Bear. The value of tall and narrow tires changes dramatically | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 440 Registered: 09-2002 |
Snow? I hate snow, let's get through the summer first and maybe I'll give it a try. I'm looking forward to the sand dunes though 8 psi should do it? | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 963 Registered: 09-2002 |
it'll do it all right have your CO2 tank handy to seat the beads on the spot i hate sand |
