| Author | Message | ||
     Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 266 Registered: 10-2002 |
Off the usual subject matter- Has anyone had experience using Gunsite's gunsmith services via your local FFL? I have a shotgun I'd like some mods done on and someone I trust has recommended their services over my local gunsmith. My question is mainly regarding your experience on turnaround times and customer service support. I've seen the quality of their work. Thanks- | ||
| Mtb (Mtb) New Member Username: Mtb Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2003 |
Greg you may have better luck posting on http://www.shotgunsports.com What do you plan on doing with your shotgun | ||
| Matthew Gibson (Mattgibson) Member Username: Mattgibson Post Number: 70 Registered: 06-2003 |
Gunsite is a very good acadamy. I lean a little toward Clint Smith's place myself. However, they do a good job for their work, but it sometimes takes a while. We've had a 1911 sent off for some minor mods for six weeks now. Only send it in if you have plenty of time. "Good things come to those that wait."  | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 279 Registered: 03-2003 |
Greg, What do you want done to your shotgun? The Gunsite Gunsmithy is a fine place, but there are other places that do work just as well or even better than the Gunsite Gunsmithy. For example, if you want a Vang Comp choke, then lots of places do this service. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 171 Registered: 04-2003 |
You will be extremely pleased with Gunsite's gunsmithy. It's been a few years since I've been there, but I will go out on a limb and assume that they still maintain the highest standard. John Lee also has a good point, however. If you can find a local smithy that is just as dedicated to quality, then that may prove to be a more sensible option. | ||
| Michael Villanueva (Iron_chef_air) Senior Member Username: Iron_chef_air Post Number: 336 Registered: 02-2002 |
I would go with John's advice here: Other places do better work. I have taken all my firearms to Gunsite for the past 15 years: starting with a Series 70 1911 and ending with a Marlin 45-70 lever action that I had made into a Scout rifle. Work up to a point was exemplary; however, my last encounter left a sour taste. Gunsite's Customer Service has always been good, and and while wait times have significantly decreased over the past ten years they are still ridiculous. Frankly, the last job they just botched -- and no amount of reasonable discussion led to any type of satisfaction on my part. They simply did some things incorrectly (the serrations were supposed to be a full inch on the front strap of my Commander, but were only a 1/4 of an inch. However, to have that corrected meant bead blasting and re-anodizing the aluminum frame yet again, which meant that magazine-to-well tolerances would be further increased -- and after *this* last re-anodizing treatment, tolerances on the Commander's frame were simply fucked and loosey goosey.). To make matters worse, they lost my Videcki trigger -- then instead of telling me, they inserted some mojo cheap ass shiny black trigger giving the gun a definitve pimp feel. When I asked for my trigger back, they could not find it, did not think the really needed a Videcki trigger, but were very nice about putting another 1911 trigger in. My Marlin came in several hundred dollars over quote -- I guess that was due to a communcation error -- I am sure no one set out to "do me in" but add that all up on top of lengthy waits... I just said "fuck it" when I left. I did not feel like making a stink about it. The friendliness at Gunsite there is palpable, but that definitive quality of knowing you are dealing with a world class smithy, that you can go no higher, is gone. I left there absolutely convinced that I would never, ever take another firearm there again. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 180 Registered: 04-2003 |
That sucks, Michael. Who's running Gunsite now? I know it was Richard Yi (or Ji or something like that) after Cooper retired, but didn't it change hands again fairly recently? | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 286 Registered: 03-2003 |
Richard Jee no longer runs Gunsite. Some guy (can't recall his name) bought Gunsite from Jee and rehired Jeff Cooper. That was a few years back; things may have changed since then. "I have taken all my firearms to Gunsite for the past 15 years: starting with a Series 70 1911 and ending with a Marlin 45-70 lever action that I had made into a Scout rifle." LOL. Well, when you start with a piece of shit Colt Series 70 and an equally piece of shit Marlin, what else would you expect? | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 184 Registered: 04-2003 |
well then, maybe I shouldn't have gone out on that limb... | ||
| Michael Villanueva (Iron_chef_air) Senior Member Username: Iron_chef_air Post Number: 338 Registered: 02-2002 |
"LOL. Well, when you start with a piece of shit Colt Series 70 and an equally piece of shit Marlin, what else would you expect?" A complete flush; just not a partial flush. | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 268 Registered: 10-2002 |
John Lee is correct- I'm looking for a vang comp choke install but don't know anyone locally who does this work. Who in Socal would you recommend? It's for a Beretta 1201FP w/fact pistol grip. i also want ghost rings and new barrel to be only 18" max length. Thanks for your responses- | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 288 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hmmm. You might call up Hans Vang himself. If the Beretta 1201 has the same barrel thickness as the Super 90 (and I think they do because I'm guessing the 1201 is made by Benelli), Vang won't do the Vang Comp mod on the ground that the resulting barrel will be too thin. I asked about the Vang Comp for my Super 90's and got this answer from Vang. Not sure though about the Beretta so check. But this is what puzzles me: the Vang Comp is really nothing more than lengthening the forcing cone to about 3-4" and backboring the barrel a few thousandths (I'm ignoring those hideously ugly ports in the barrel, which are done more for felt recoil reduction and don't really affect the patterning quality.) It's just at most combat shotgunners don't realize the this, and pay Vang to do the work. LOTS of clay target shops perform both backboring and forcing cone jobs on Berettas and Super 90's. So I think Vang is in the minority on this one. For the ghost-rings, I would have the Gunsite Gunsmithy do this one. I think the GG currently uses the MMC ghost-ring aperture and the MMC serrated ramp front sight. The rear sight is bolted to the receiver and the front sight is silver soldered onto the barrel. The GG does a superb job installing these. However, I prefer the older Wickert adjustable ghost-ring aperture combined with the MMC serrated ramp front sight. I think the Wickert rear sight is more elegant looking than the huge MMC rear sight. Another nice mod on the 1201 and Super 90 is to fit a larger bolt release button. The GG can more than handle this simple job for your weapon. | ||
| Art Bitterman (Aardvark) Member Username: Aardvark Post Number: 48 Registered: 05-2003 |
Fitting the MMC sights is an easy job that any competent gunsmith should be able to do; no need to send to Gunsite for that! If you were in Georgia, I'd do it for $30. BTB, I'm a gunsmith by trade (check out my website at www.aardvarkarms.com) How's that for a slightly blatent plug? Art Bitterman 1960 SII. "Aardvark" | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 269 Registered: 10-2002 |
I have used Danforth gunsmithing here in Riverside for handguns and been happy with their work. However, when I asked them about vang comp mod it was obvious they thought I was foolish for messing up a perfectly good 1201! They also said they could do the same work and that would be a backbore and choke install. That is not my understanding of a vang comp choke and I decided to look elsewhere. My understanding is as John Lee's. Extending the forcing cone cannot be done (at least according to Hans Vang) on Benelli and Beretta barrels and that's why he replaces the barrel to allow this. I do not believe that the 1201 is made by Benelli. At the time I purchased the Beretta I was looking at getting an M3 (I liked the manual/semiauto option). Compare an M1 and 1201 and I think you'll agree. The 1201 shares many parts with other Beretta semiautos. However since I had 2 other shotguns (both Beretta's) and I was running out of time to purchase still with pistol grip and full magazine I bought the Beretta and have not been unhappy with my decision. | ||
| Michael Villanueva (Iron_chef_air) Senior Member Username: Iron_chef_air Post Number: 339 Registered: 02-2002 |
Well now, I do have an 870 built by Gunsite... and the barrel does a tight group, and the ghost sites are exellent. Of course, John, the 870 is between the Series 70 and the Bushmaster AR15. I am not sure if the sites used by Gunsite are proprietary. Are they John? | ||
| Michael Villanueva (Iron_chef_air) Senior Member Username: Iron_chef_air Post Number: 340 Registered: 02-2002 |
Damn.... sites.... or sights? Oh crap. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 291 Registered: 03-2003 |
"However, when I asked them about vang comp mod it was obvious they thought I was foolish for messing up a perfectly good 1201!" They have a point. When I first saw the results from the Vang Comp mod, I wanted one badly. Now after thinking about it, why do I want a shotgun that patterns so tightly? One of the advantages of a shotgun is that it is more forgiving than a rifle. If it's dark or the target is moving or if I'm moving or I'm stressed out or whatever, the dispersed shot pattern of the shotgun adds some forgiveness to my bad shots. If my entire shot pattern is only a few inches in diamter at 20 yards, why even bother using a shotgun at all? Why not use a rifle? I would rather have the rifle's reach and penetration through walls and automobiles and body armor and such. Rifle ammunition is also not bulky and can be fed through high-capacity magazines instead of singly. The shotgun definitely has its place, but I'm not sure these very very tightly patterning shotguns do. "They also said they could do the same work and that would be a backbore and choke install. That is not my understanding of a vang comp choke and I decided to look elsewhere." Yeah, those guys are smoking crack. If they want to install a choke tube on a combat shotgun, they don't know what they're doing. A steady diet of slugs and buckshot through that barrel and soon you're very likely to find that choke tube down range. Alternatives to choke tubes are the Vang Comp or jug choking. Or you can stick with the simple cylinder bore barrel. Another alternative is to get the the forcing cone lengthened, but leave the bore diameter at factory spec. Lengthening the forcing cone will go a long way toward reducing felt recoil and improve the concentricity of your patterns. Your patterns won't be any tighter than before (which I think is probably a good thing), but the patterns will be more even and concentric than before (which is a good thing). Cylinder bore barrels often produce doughnut-shaped patterns, which are not a good thing. "Well now, I do have an 870 built by Gunsite... and the barrel does a tight group, and the ghost sites are exellent." I have to see that shotgun one of these days. Next time we're at Truckhaven..... "Of course, John, the 870 is between the Series 70 and the Bushmaster AR15." Yeah, the 870 is a piece of shit as well. It'll go perfectly with that 1911, Marlin, and AR15. "I am not sure if the sites used by Gunsite are proprietary. Are they John? The MMC sights are sold on the open market. I believe the Steve Wickert sights are as well, but I'm not sure. The only time I've seen the Wickert sights is on weapons built by the Gunsite Gunsmithy, but I still think these sites are sold on the open market. Stuff like the Wickert sights or the Dave Talley rings are sort of a cottage industry. Though they're available, they are not widely advertised and not widely distributed through distributors and dealerships. It's "sight", not "site". "Sight" deals with seeing, i.e., a "sight for sore eyes" or "sighting in a rifle". "Site" deals with locales, e.g., a "website" or "Gunsite". | ||
| Mike Pelechaty (Tonga) Member Username: Tonga Post Number: 50 Registered: 03-2003 |
"Now after thinking about it, why would I want a shotgun that patterns so tightly? ........" You don't, unless you are in law enforcement and have to account for every pellet that exits that barrel. BTW are you a mercenary/assassin or something? | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 270 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mike- Don't know if you're referring to me or not-but no, I'm not. I do believe that self-defense of my home and family is something I choose not to simply trust to law enforcement. A few years ago an individual was beating another individual over the head with a baseball bat in my neighborhood (next door in fact). The police finally showed after 2 hours and dozens of 911 calls. The fire dept sat for over an hour at the end of the block as their policy does not allow them to get involved until police show up. The police stated they were answering several simultaneous calls around town and this call was put on hold. Luckily the individual did not die even though he took several hits to the head... I also grew up in a rural county in Northern Calif where it might take 2 hours plus for either of the two sheriffs deputies available to reach a 911 call depending on your location. | ||
| Mike Pelechaty (Tonga) Member Username: Tonga Post Number: 51 Registered: 03-2003 |
I was actually commenting on John's interesting post with regard to penetrating automobiles, walls and body armor. If self defense is the reason for these weapons, then consideration should also be given to where missed shots are landing, especially in an urban neighborhood. I don't agree with John's opinion on using a rifle purely because of it's awesome penetrating power. You may hit your intruder and the neighbor across the street as well...and his car. A shotgun with a tight pattern is ideal for close quarter assaults - excellent stopping power and minimal penetration - the round stays in whatever you hit. Their range is minimal which poses less of a threat to your surroundings than a rifle. They can also be fired from various positions, have no scope to deal with and can be used more readily at night. These are the primary reasons most law enforcement agencies use these types of weapons. Similarly, this type of weapon would be ideal for home/family protection. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 292 Registered: 03-2003 |
LOL, Mike. I can't help but get the feeling that you the monthly gun magazines. Almost everything you say is basically parroting something out of those repetitive "Best long gun for personal defense" articles. The shotgun has its place, and I own three of them. But my "go to" long gun is a HK93. It's more reliable than any shotgun, pump or self-loading. It's magazine fed with 25-round magazines. It has very long range in case I ever need it. No, it doesn't have a telescope on it. And yes, I can shoot it from whatever position you can shoot your shotgun from. If the bad guy is trying to hide behind cover, I can shoot through most of the things he's trying to use for cover. If he's wearing body armor, I can shoot through his body armor. If I need a deliberate shot, I can shoot a very precise shot with my rifle. I can't do these things with my shotgun. From my way of looking at things, these are more than a fair trade-off for the shotgun's larger margin for error. I find it hilarious that all of your articulated reasons are the same reasons law enforcement agencies use to justify their use of shotguns. But in the North Hollywood shootout, where the vast majority of the LAPD units present were armed with shotguns, DOZENS of LAPD officers were highly ineffective against TWO armed bad guys. Is this is a joke or something? The LAPD guys had to go to B&B to borrow some rifles. And when the LAPD SWAT guys showed up, they had rifles as well. I own both shotguns and rifles, but I'll stick with my preference for the rifle whenever I need something serious. | ||
| David Woo (Davidwoo) New Member Username: Davidwoo Post Number: 21 Registered: 01-2003 |
Mike: I recently took a tactical class from a local trainer, had about a dozen guys in it, about half were leo or srt, domestic as well as international. All mentioned that they had or were in the process of switching from shot guns to rifles, for patrol officers, room clearing etc... Too much collateral damage from shotguns, and the rifles helped to put them on more equal footing with the better equipped BG's. We also had a session regarding shooting from/into a vehicle, surprising to see how many types of ammo do not penetrate a car door. DW | ||
| Matthew Gibson (Mattgibson) Member Username: Mattgibson Post Number: 71 Registered: 06-2003 |
Watch it boys- it's starting to sound like Evan Marshall's website. Please refer to http://www.stoppingpower.net/ it's loaded (no pun intended) with lots of good info (and a little superfluous malarkey too) enjoy. | ||
| Mike Pelechaty (Tonga) Member Username: Tonga Post Number: 52 Registered: 03-2003 |
David - You are right, a lot of Enforcemet agencies are looking at replacing the shotgun with AR 15's and assault rifles of the like. In my opinion, police officers should carry both in their cruisers as there are many applications that the rifle would also cause too much damage. It's a tough call - how much can a cruiser safely pack that is also readily accessable. Oh yeah, John - I don't read any gun magazines, I don't have to. I'll leave why up to your imagination as it is quite evident that you have a very active one. Just like in every other thread, there you are chirping away. I just disagreed with you John, everyone has thier opinion, some more insightful than others. Thanks for the chat. See ya later. |
