| Author | Message | ||
     Jake Hartley (Jake) Member Username: Jake Post Number: 207 Registered: 03-2002 |
What great news yesterday! The SOF task Force & The Screaming Eagles kicked some serious ass. The world is a much better place without those two thuggish bastards. Now we need to do the same to the old man..... | ||
| Tim (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 504 Registered: 12-2002 |
My 67 year old mom was so happy to hear it she called me at home concerning the news. Best news was no U.S. KIA during the operation. Unfortunately I believe the big daddy rat is still out and about, I am guessing underground in Iran. | ||
| Troy (Mosby) New Member Username: Mosby Post Number: 5 Registered: 04-2003 |
I'm kinda curious why it took a special task force AND elements of the 101st Airborne 6 (SIX!!) hours to kill 2 men (1 of them a cripple) and 2 teenage boys. I'm glad those bastards are dead but it wasn't exactly the greatest display of military prowess. | ||
| Jake Hartley (Jake) Member Username: Jake Post Number: 209 Registered: 03-2002 |
well Troy, they did it in a way that took no US casualties. The house looked like a bunker and they (the bad guys) were armed to the teeth. Odai was not exectly a cripple, although you would not have seen him run any foot races. I assume you dont have military service or you would understand just how cool this was. BTW, the 101st secured the perimeter while TF 20 did the fighting. | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 74 Registered: 09-2002 |
Troy- By the news accounts it took 3 1/2 hours (vice six)to take the compound down and there was more than 4 people there, at least there is significant reporting of detainees being taken away, so there was likely some guards or at least 'innocent' bystanders that were dealt with. Furthermore considering it was a daylight raid on a compound in a highly populated area I think the boys there erred on the side of precision (12 + TOWS and who knows how many JAVELINS) and force protection (four minor WIAs) rather than an overwhelmingly violent approach, which minimized the chance for collateral damage-but lengthened the timeline. Its also important to note that time-sensitive info like this probably kept the operation to a simple cordon & search style op where you have SOPs, vice a deliberate raid that the SOF guys need a lot of detailed intelligence in order to conduct what you see on "TV". While we don't know what exactly happened on the ground, those are some of the reasons I can conclude from having practiced operations like this before. The bottom line was they didn't lose anyone or kill any Iraqis that didn't need to die so I say good show, even if it was the Army.  r- Ray | ||
| Jake Hartley (Jake) Member Username: Jake Post Number: 210 Registered: 03-2002 |
well said Ray. BTW, TF 20 includes Navy Seal Team 6 and AF Para Rescue, so all the forces were there. You are right ops like these are not like what you see on TV shows and movies. Hope all is well in Corps, have several friends there, as was my father & uncle. Keep up the good work, from a retired Army SOF guy | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 75 Registered: 09-2002 |
Jake- Thanks for the remarks, the Corps is the Corps-I wish I wasn't stuck at a Navy command but that's what you get sometimes. You jumped in on this one while I was typing, but I echo your thoughts, I usually try to explain the big differences between movies and reality as it amazes me how few people really know what the military is like. I meant no disrespect towards the SpecOps crowd, I was using the Army reference since it appears they're letting the 101st take credit for this. That doesn't suprise me in the least, those units are usually very shy about getting on camera. I wasn't aware that it was a mixed Navy/Army bag, from what I heard in AF they rotated vice combined-so I assumed that was true here as well, although I guess in retrospect Anaconda proves me wrong on that one. I knew the CT/PJs were there, but those guys are so solid it goes without saying that you'd want them along. r- Ray | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1748 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jake and Ray, Personally, I would have sat there in a lawn chair calling in CAS in the way of 2000 lb JDAMS But then again, that would make identification of the boys a bit more difficult. Paul | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 76 Registered: 09-2002 |
Paul speaks of the aforementioned overwhelming violence approach, which is a technique, but it makes putting the bodies up on stakes harder (I guess you could put them in jars). You know there was some FAC there dying to do that as well, and they only let them use the little birds. I feel bad for that CAS stack that was just tanking away the afternoon... Ray | ||
| Troy (Mosby) New Member Username: Mosby Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2003 |
No I understand how cool it was and appreciate the level of behind the scenes planning and co-ordination that probably went into this. I think it's great that we're finally catching some of these guys, now if we could only find Osama and Saddam. As I understand it, we did take several casualties, thankfully no fatalities. Just curious why it took 6 hours (according to the general I heard on the news this am) to dislodge these guys. There were several attempts to take the second floor and it wasn't until they brought in the TOWs that they were able to dislodge them. Thanks for the info Jake and Ray. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1750 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ray, I am reading the book The Hunt for Bin Laden and CAS coordination with the Dagger Teams was incredible during the Afghanistan operations. Those Army guys sent a lot of "metal rain" towards the taliban. But this is DWEB....I drove my Rover today | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 77 Registered: 09-2002 |
I think a lot of the time was b/c they kept stopping and asking them to surrender. Considering what those two would go through if we handed them over to certain elements of the Iraqi population its not hard to understand why the fought till the death. TOWs have a great way of dislodging people who don't want to leave, although it does make one wish for a U.S.-made thermobaric weapon which would kill them but leave the bodies mostly intact (and is a lot cheaper than the unit cost of a TOW II missile). | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 79 Registered: 04-2003 |
Didja see that freaking building? It was like 3-foot concrete for walls. The building was all torn to shit after 6 hours but was still standing. And those guys inside were not going to make anything easier. Let's say there were 12 people inside, including Saddam's boys. They had a large, stable, well-fortified three-story building to run around in and hide. Then our guys, after softening up the building (and people) a bit with TOW and JAVELIN, go inside onto their turf, kick ass and (literally) take names. It just astounds me when people want Steven Seagal-esque raids. Nothing is ever as pretty as it is on TNT on Saturday afternoon. Just like people who think we should pull out of Iraq already -- we've had troops in Germany for 58+ years and in Korea for 48-ish years! A couple months is nothing... Arrrrgggghhhh! | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 78 Registered: 09-2002 |
Paul, You're coming to MAR right? Remind me when we get there and I'll tell you about a guy I know who got a Bronze Star for calling in some CAS via an 'unorthodox' manner. In rover-related news I finally got a 5th BFG to mount as my spare, getting rid of my CB 265/70/16 General Grabber that made the rear of my Disco ugly. Anyone want two General Grabbers with like 85% tread left? | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1752 Registered: 02-2002 |
Yeah, I'll be at the MAR. Wouldn't miss it for the world. | ||
| Jake Hartley (Jake) Member Username: Jake Post Number: 211 Registered: 03-2002 |
Paul: I am going to drive my Rover today, we found some abandoned trails around the area in WI where I live and a neighbor (with a Series I) & I (with a very worn Disco) are gonna do some exploring. | ||
| James P Groom (Jpg) New Member Username: Jpg Post Number: 18 Registered: 06-2003 |
I don't think the primary mission was to wack these guys, better to get them alive for a trial. Otherwise we could have used a B-52 and cleaned them up with a sponge. I just heard there is a controversy because the Iraqi people want proof as in pictures of the bodies. We first said ok and have since backed off. I say if hanging upside down from a streetlight was good enough for Mussolini then we should hand over the bodies to the mob. | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 81 Registered: 04-2003 |
Jake, where in Wisconsin are you? | ||
| Jake Hartley (Jake) Member Username: Jake Post Number: 212 Registered: 03-2002 |
Andrew: I live in Stockholm, which is on Lake Pepin (MS River), about 65 miles north of LaCrosse. | ||
| Kelly Fristoe (Kfristoe) Member Username: Kfristoe Post Number: 50 Registered: 12-2002 |
Oh well....... ">>Pictures removed by moderator<<" | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 189 Registered: 02-2003 |
While we are all certainly pleased with the latest developments in Iraq, I do not feel that this forum is an appropriate venue for posting pictures of dead Iraqis, no matter what their relation to Saddam is. Sorry Kelly, that post was in poor taste. If I want to see those pictures, I will go to cnn.com and select the appropriate link. Not everyone wants those pictures to pop up on their screen without warning. Use some judgement while posting, and keep it PG-13. - Axel | ||
| Kelly Fristoe (Kfristoe) On Probation Username: Kfristoe Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2002 |
Sorry guys. I'll use better judgment in the future. | ||
| BW (Bwallace35) Member Username: Bwallace35 Post Number: 72 Registered: 07-2002 |
TF 20. I believe they fall under JSOC. | ||
| Brian Goodner (Bluewater) Member Username: Bluewater Post Number: 31 Registered: 03-2003 |
i was looking at the news4colorado.com for some pics of odai and qusai and up popped a rover ad. i wish they had more of those. |
