| Author | Message | ||
     R. Shane Linder (Shane_l) New Member Username: Shane_l Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2003 |
Hello all, I was looking at the prices of new Rovers and have some questions (the tech part will come). A new Defender 90 here in Colombia runs about US $35,000 and a new Discovery (SE) about $70,000. I have a 96 SE D 1 (57,000 miles) and have been offered $40,000 by several people. I am thinking about selling it and using the money to buy a brand new Defender 90. I have also given some serious thought to picking up an old Land Rover Santana, which is the little two door Rover with the spare on the hood (they are used to pick coffee here. Juan Valdez gave up his burro a long time ago). I looked at a very nice 1978 for $3,000. My technical question regards both vehicles. If I trade the Disco for Defender will I lose money when I bring the Defender back to the US? I mean will I need to make lots of expensive modifications to get it back to the States? Same question for the Santana. If I buy a nice one for $3,000 will I have to spend $10,000 to make it legal in the States? I know that there are some serious mechanics on the list so I appreciate your help. These prices might seem crazy, but there are less than 50 Discos in the entire country. Range Rovers here start at $100,000. -Shane | ||
| Luis Constantin (Luisc) Member Username: Luisc Post Number: 106 Registered: 02-2003 |
I knew I should have sold mine when I was in that neck of the woods. You would have an easier time getting the 78 Santana into the US than the D90. It's a customs issue. They want their taxes collected. I'm sure there are other issues, but without asking the USCustoms officials at work and attracting unwanted attention to myself. The 78 also will not need to meet certain DOT and environmental regs that the newer D90 will. | ||
| Richard Dekkard (Richard_dekkard) Member Username: Richard_dekkard Post Number: 118 Registered: 04-2003 |
are you a US citizen? if so, you cannot bring that D90 back into the country. Someone will tell you that if you modify this or that, you will be able to, but the simple fact is you cant. Has it been done before? Yes, and there are large lawsuits, and plenty of seizures too.. good luck.. if your not a US citizen, you can bring the defender in, but you may not sell it, and you must take it with you when you leave. this may help you a bit.. Mike has alot of experience with this.. http://www.eastcoastrover.com/imports.html | ||
| jerry d quintana (Exjeeper) Member Username: Exjeeper Post Number: 42 Registered: 02-2003 |
Im shipping my 95 own there and selling it. | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1427 Registered: 04-2002 |
Richard is sorta correct. As far as importing a Defender, it is possible to do it legally. To bring in a D90 you would have to first petition to import it and the only likely years are 1995 (maybe pre '94)-1997. Last I checked, it would cost $500 to petition to bring one in. No one has yet filed a petition for a D90 (only defender was 1993 D110) as far as I know. If they deny your petition you're out $500. But if you get your petition approved you will then need to find a Registered Importer (RI) to federalize the vehicle (about $6000 last I checked) and then wait about 6 months. All in all not a fun thing to deal with but it can be done. Here's a place to start... http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ELIG0521-03.html | ||
| Richard Dekkard (Richard_dekkard) Member Username: Richard_dekkard Post Number: 119 Registered: 04-2003 |
if I could bring in a 110 legally for $6k i would have done it 10 times by now.... You CANNOT legally bring a 110 into the country unless its a 1993 and then you still need to drop alot of $$ getting it federalized. A more reasonable figure at last check on Federalizing a 110 from 1993 was $18,000 and that didnt include EPA certification. Can it be done? yes... is it legal? no.... Im trying to emphasize the distinction between those two things... In reality you will not know if the risk of the legality of it was worth it till you have a wreck in it. D90's being so inexpensive these days, you really are better off buying a high mileage D90 and converting it to a 110 with a new engine.. 110 galvanized framse are even fairly inexpensive, and its not a hard conversion. | ||
| Shaun Power (Shaunp) Member Username: Shaunp Post Number: 114 Registered: 05-2003 |
You guys should move to Australia you can buy 110's 130s and Landrover Australia has started importing 90's. The 110's and 90's are sold in a trim level called a "defender extreme", This is the first time we have had 90's since series 3's. They are bringing them in to compete with Jeep Wranglers. http://www.landrover.com.au | ||
| colin astley (Cra_arc) New Member Username: Cra_arc Post Number: 9 Registered: 07-2003 |
"regulations regulations regulations" why cant we all just buy what we want and use it where we want ? now if you all just drove on the left like us, life would be easier, (just a bit of fun) you would think specs, safety measures, regs could be somewhat standardised, oh and fuel prices off course. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2418 Registered: 02-2002 |
No! I don't want our fuel-prices "standardized" with you! Thing is, in the UK, everything is close. You don't have to drive far. As an example, I drive the equivelent of London to Birmingham daily. I have a shorter commute than a lot of other folks here in the office, too. We'll let you be you, and you let us be us.  -L | ||
| colin astley (Cra_arc) New Member Username: Cra_arc Post Number: 10 Registered: 07-2003 |
quite the reverse, bring our prices down to your levels, i hate paying 80p per litre, costs me the �65 to fill my tank on my disco, ouch, and our vehicle prices are the most expensive in europe not counting taxes, and we build the bloody things, you are lucky !!!!! we have so many restrictions on where to drive access to tracks and trails is so dificult. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2419 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ah! Okay.... I can agree with that. Ever think about moving west by a few thousand miles? -L | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 184 Registered: 02-2003 |
Richard, Yes it can be done. And yes it can be done legally. But as you alluded to, it's VERY expensive to have it done. I have only been privvy to one absolutely legal D110. A very nice TDi County model. -P | ||
| colin astley (Cra_arc) New Member Username: Cra_arc Post Number: 11 Registered: 07-2003 |
yes suprising isnt it ! extortion by the government i say. they would never get away with it elsewhere. just wish we could have the sort of scope you have. in the county i live in devon, the local council are downgrading everything so as to make it undrivable !!!!!!! ok so we can go out of devon and drive offroad, and not to far by your standards 1.5 hrs to some good lanes and tracks, but compare that to what you guys have, "move west" yes i guess that would be the answer. cheap fuel wide open spaces, utopia for land rover nuts. | ||
| John Kruger (Johnnyk) Member Username: Johnnyk Post Number: 229 Registered: 02-2002 |
You want to bring in a 1978 vehicle. Well, it is now over 25 years old and should be exempt from most of the problems of importing newer vehicles. John www.teampb.com | ||
| Enoch Snyder (Esnyder) Member Username: Esnyder Post Number: 72 Registered: 10-2002 |
"They are bringing them in to compete with Jeep Wranglers." If we could only be so lucky here in the good old USA! | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1435 Registered: 04-2002 |
Richard... you say you CANNOT do it legally... did you see the links I posted? They're actually links from the US Government telling you how you CAN do it legally. And as I said, only the 1993 D110 is curretnly petitioned. No mentioned of failed petition attempts for D90's though. Going back to 2001 -- at that time no one had petitioned a D90. I don't know if someone has tried since. Here's another link (albeit not official legal US Government link) http://www.spanishtrailrovers.com/Tech/Info/Importing_a_Land_Rover/importing_a_l and_rover.html And another possible pitfall... don't expect to get a loan from your bank to buy that nice 1993 D110 to import. So be ready to pay cash for it. | ||
| Richard Dekkard (Richard_dekkard) Member Username: Richard_dekkard Post Number: 121 Registered: 04-2003 |
Al , The guy wants to bring a 2003 D110 in... that aint gonna happen... thats all im saying.. 1993 , possible to do, but $$$$ so why bother.. convert a D90 for to D110 for less. As Perrone said, he only knows of one, I know of one and they are all fairly iffy when it comes to an insurance settlement.. There are four hurdles to jump. -DOT.. the hardest.. by far..and most $$ -EPA.. easier, but ya never know, depends on politics -Your insurance company.. totally depends..and you best give full disclosure or they will simply not pay a thing. I have heard that imported non-classic vehicles are harder to insure then even Salvage Title ones. -Your local DMV, county government emmissions.. I think Nathan Crabtree has done one, or built it.. I dont know the story, but I would love to but I dont think we will hear anything about it till its sold.. | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 292 Registered: 08-2002 |
Nathan's state allows a bit more latitude than some others. What he is doing, we can't do in Maryland. | ||
| Ron Johnson (Chauner) New Member Username: Chauner Post Number: 32 Registered: 05-2003 |
There is a 2001 Defender for sale on ebay right now, I think the guy said it was assembled here in the U.S. | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 293 Registered: 08-2002 |
That's Nathan's. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31849&item=242 5605678 | ||
| Shaun Power (Shaunp) Member Username: Shaunp Post Number: 116 Registered: 05-2003 |
Why not get the US army to bring back the ones the Australians and the English left in the Gulf and Afganistan. | ||
| Richard Dekkard (Richard_dekkard) Member Username: Richard_dekkard Post Number: 125 Registered: 04-2003 |
This is exactly what gets so confusing about this issue... According to the DOT , assembling the vehicle as a kit is illegal. Your state may allow it, but the DOT will not and Federal trumps State. So it comes down to one thing... Do you get caught / seized? And what happens if it gets stolen, or in a wreck. Its all bullshit really, but I guess its going to come down to what you are willing to risk. The risk free way is buy a real 1993 110, convert a D90, or import a 1993 110 and pay big $$... | ||
| R. Shane Linder (Shane_l) New Member Username: Shane_l Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2003 |
Thanks for all the feedback and ideas. I plan to keep looking into this as I know that a guy who left here before I arrived took a very nice LR Santana back with him. I am trying to contact him and find out how he did it. Perhaps an old LR qualifies as an antique or something? (Don't laugh, I know a guy who imports quality German beers into Florida as "Novelty Items.") I also heard that there is a "Diplomatic Relief Act" passed by congress that allows diplomats to bring one car back to the States during their career to help allay the financial burdens of a career overseas. I'll investgate this and see what the catches are. On a final note, I doubt that Uncle Sam is trying to screw us on this one. Sounds more like laws put in place through high power lobbyists from the car industry so that we have to purchase their products. Find out what Senator proposed the original bill and I'll bet pesos to D 90s that his largest campaign contributors were Ford and GM. -Shane | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2432 Registered: 02-2002 |
Richard, If you call it a "kit" car, yes, you're right, as it's not a kit-car. And, as ECR's site points out, you can't call it a "specially constructed vehicle" either, as that's something different. However, depending on the state you're in, you can buy a bunch of parts, put them together, take it to the DMV, and they will asssign you a VIN for a "reconstructed" vehicle. It gets a new VIN from the state, not dependent on swapping anything off of another vehicle, and legally sidesteps DOT and EPA... all you have to satisfy is your state in that case. A LOT of states don't allow that: CA, NY, ME, etc. TN, VA, KY, AL, they do. I don't know about anywhere else. Shane, A '78 Santana, it probably wouldn't have any problems being brought in; a new Defender could be under diplomatic persona, but would have to leave later. FWIW.... -L | ||
| Richard Dekkard (Richard_dekkard) Member Username: Richard_dekkard Post Number: 127 Registered: 04-2003 |
Leslie, dont mean to disagree.. but just cause you got a VIN doesnt mean its DOT Legal.. It will get seized VIN or not... I bounce around in the Lotus car scene quite alot, and there are at least 5 Lotus cars that I know of in the last few years that have all been seized by Customs after the DOT reported them as violation vehicles, even though they all had VINs and legal titles. DOT req's trump all other jurisdictions... epa, state, county, etc... And when the insurance company finds out you wrecked and hurt someone in a non DOT approved vehicle, your toast anyways.. but of course thats only if you get found out.. which is what alot of this comes down to. | ||
| Shaun Power (Shaunp) Member Username: Shaunp Post Number: 119 Registered: 05-2003 |
I had a look at a brand new bright yellow Defender Extream 90 TD5 today at Austral Landrover here in Brisbane Oz. They look great. Shame you blokes in the US can't get them. | ||
| Bill Ross (Billr) Member Username: Billr Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2002 |
This convrsation shows that the US government has been successful is restricting "illegal" and hence evil vehicles from being imported. There appears to be at least 3 different tracks on what is legal or not, so obviously the government laws have sown confusion. As long as the populice is confused, as the government you don't have to prove whether your laws make since as the result is the same. Compliance by ignorance/confusion. Damn, I'm glad I moved to Canada! At least here when the government is "confused", people just go ahead and do what they want to do. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2435 Registered: 02-2002 |
Richard, I can't speak to your state, but the DMV here states that the state police will only hand you a VIN if it meets their criteria for meeting DOT specs, and thus that should shield you from direct seisure by the DOT. Those Lotus Elises were registered with Lotus VIN numbers, when they weren't officially imported. If you took a bunch of parts and built a lotus-"copy" and use the VIN that the state gives you as a "reconstructed vehicle", or whatever your state may allow it to be called, then it is legal. DOT permits states to issue VINs on a one-off basis. At least that is my understanding, as it is in THIS state. -L | ||
| Richard Dekkard (Richard_dekkard) Member Username: Richard_dekkard Post Number: 128 Registered: 04-2003 |
I agree.. If it were a Virginia title and assigned VIN, you would probably be all set... They are nazi strict with everything. =) | ||
| Justin (Vanroth) Member Username: Vanroth Post Number: 70 Registered: 02-2003 |
To clear the confusion of reconstruction non-legail import cars... Well if is not legal to import a particular model car, reconstructing it regardless of what state issues titles it is illegal. It is considering decieving the federal government to circumvent importation. Simple as that... Now if you constructed a "kit" car based on the same model manufactured by a different company then you could legally get it registered and drive it to your hearts desire (like a knockoff Lancia Stratos). The problem is the states do not have the manpower or the understanding to stop every person in the US who reconstructs an import vehicle. They are not experts on Lotus's or LR's. The reconstruction laws are the for states to allow hotrod and kit car builders the freedom to legal drive their creations. NOT to allow persons to drive their import vehicles by bypassing DOT importation laws. Yes there are people who have gotten away with it, and yes it is unfair for us who get deprived of such great foreign markets vehicles, but it is the law  . -justin |
