| Author |
Message |
    
Stephan
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 05:21 pm: | 
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I want to put 265/80/15 on my 88 Range rover but they dont have it in the Super Swamper ssr, only the TSL's. I still want to be able to drive on the street, so i really want to get the SSr's. THe size they have in the ssr is 32-11.50 r16. I don't know what that means, i don't know my tire sizes (i know metric) Will the tire be taller/ fatter that the 265/80? My rover has an EMU suspension and a 2 inch body lift, will they fit? |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 06:53 pm: |
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Find someone with TSL Radials before you decided that only the SSRs will do. I've tried both tires on and off the road and they were both fine to me.
The 32x11.50 r16 means the tire is supposedly
32" trall
11.50" wide
for a 16" rim.
The 265/80 r16 is about 32.5" tall and 10" wide.
On my RR with a 3" lift I have successfully test fit 33x10.50 TSL Swampers, and 255/85r16 BFG Mud Terrains.
-P |
stephan
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 09:39 pm: |
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What about 32-11.50 r16. Do you think that they are too wide? |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 10:04 pm: |
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Too wide for what? Are you willing to trim? If not, then stick with the 10.50 or narrower tire.
-P |
Craig
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2002 - 01:29 am: |
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http://www.intercotire.com/html/ssr_series.htm
Craig |
hendrik
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 08:36 am: |
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@Perrone,
you said, the 3"lift cleared the 255/85-16. Was this with trimming or without ? |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 08:41 am: |
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Without.
-P |
hendrik
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 10:56 am: |
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@Perrone,
thanks for that answer  !!!
Any other alterations that were necessary other than steering lock ? (i am thinking of bumpstops, because I would expect the tire to foul the wheelarch on full articulation without).
And are the brakes sufficient ? Have you any idea to improve the braking power (might a vacuum reservoir help on quick repetitive braking action ??)
Thanks again (this time in advance),
Hendrik |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 01:02 pm: |
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Hendrik,
FWIW - the 2" lift does not completely clear 245/75 tire (30.5" tall, 9.5" wide). Each truck is individual, but from there I would guess the extra 1" of lift will result in the same rubbing with a tire just as wide but 2" taller, like 32.5". If the tire is wider, it will rub badly.
Perrone, I remember your posts on 34" tires - how do you test the tire fitment? Do you use forklift, or RTI ramp?
Brakes - most likely, you won't see nearly any difference (unless you go down Lion's Back). I like taller tires - a poor man's ABS.
peter |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 01:20 pm: |
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pm
I have tested but not fit 255/85r16 and 33x10.50 swamper TSL Radials. The swampers were tested by driving up stacked concrete blocks until max flex was reached. With the swampers, the only rubbing was at the back of the rear wheel well where the tire touched. Pics of this appear on spanish trail page.
The 255/85 test fit was only to see if the tire rubbed on the fenders. I didn't flex with those fitted but I did take some rather poor pics. Since that tire is taller than the swamper, I expect fouling would occur inside the wheel wells. Trimming inside there didn't concern me at al, I just didn't want to trim my fenders unless I had to.
Some people have felt that the braking was worse with these larger tires. Some have felt that the acceleration was terrible. To be honest, I didn't notice that much difference in braking or acceleration. I do live at 95ft above sea level, and I am very gentle on the gas and brake so that may account for my experiences. I can't determine what other people's impressions may be.
-P |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 01:27 pm: |
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well,
on my rangie, the 245/75s rub at full compression in the rear, against the door weatherstripping. Once they ripped the whole rubber thing out. I liked the tapered rear corners on the rangie vs. Disco's, and the fact that i didn't have to hack the rangie with the same amount of lift and same tires.
I guess it depends more on the type of wheeling you do. It is mostly rocks and off-camber stuff here.
Speaking of braking and acceleration issue - the Disco feels heavier on taller tires, but no adverse effect on braking performance. The rangie actually runs better (powerband-wise) on taller tires than on stock 29" Michelins. Braking sucks regardless of the tire. I live at about the same altitude, but even to take kids from school involves going over a 700ft hill, with some tight turns and very steep streets. I use gear lever a lot, for both acceleration and engine braking, but nothing is different with larger tires.
peter |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:17 pm: |
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See now that's interesting. My braking performance is pretty strong. I don't have much hanging on my truck, like aftermarket bumpers, rack, winch, etc., so maybe that is the difference, but I am quite happy with how my brakes perform, except the ABS system.
-P |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:28 pm: |
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the biggest problem for all drivers in my family is to readjust for the brake feeling between the disco, rangie, and the jeep.
disco stops on a dime, provided that ABS light is on and ABS not working. Completely unpredictable if ABS thinks it's okay. Tire size doesn't matter much.
rangie may stop quick, or brake pedal may go to the floor. it'll stop, but kinda scary. bleeding fixes it but not for long.
jeep takes about 200lb of effort on the pedal to achieve similar braking action (that with the power brakes!), but it'll stop for sure. There was considerable difference in braking going from 29" to 33" in tire size, I can't lock up the wheels anymore.
peter |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 03:26 pm: |
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OH crap man! Fix dem brakes! I can lock up the rangie tires without pressing my back against the seat. The BMW is similar. I haven't driven the Camaro in so long I forget.
-P |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 04:33 pm: |
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been at rangie's brakes since i bought it (one of many things DSPO screwed up). Still not there yet... I can lock up the wheels, though.
on the ***p, i can break the seat mounts, but it won't lock the wheels. no air in the lines, it's what the brakes are.
peter |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 05:04 pm: |
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Weird how everyone has a compeletely different problem/feel with the same vehicles....
Disco sucks - won't stop for crap and cannot lock upo a wheel with out wihtout ABS hooked - same after new lines and MC....go figure?
RRC skids to a halt if you give the brake pedal an angry look Best brakes I've ever had (as long as the ABS system holds up I guess)
Strange
Bill |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 05:13 pm: |
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angry look, LOL, that's the best brakes i've ever heard of!
peter |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 06:54 pm: |
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I'm looking REALLY hard at going to a different braking system altogether when my ABS pump goes. I can install two new front calipers, new lines and a new master cylinder cheaper than replacing that damn thing. Mike Slade has been feeding me info on what he's got going on with his swap. Looks good so far.
-P |
Ron
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 09:03 pm: |
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Bill B's situation is weird, usually a new MC cures DI/RR non ABS
Yes the 90-95 RR brakes are incredible . . . and incredibly expensive to fix.
However I want hydroboost
Ron |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 09:25 pm: |
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A good set of small piston calipers, with a small bore M/C should give me all the power I need to simulate the hydroboost. And given the stock pedal travel on our trucks, you can use a pretty high ratio on the pedal itself to get plenty of leverage.
-P |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 09:26 pm: |
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Mike went with Wilwood brakes. I may do the same thing or go with Outlaw or Baer brakes. Hopefully I can find a junker Rangie or D1 master cylinder so that I can match up the bolt pattern at the firewall.
-P |
hendrik
| | Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 06:02 am: |
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Hi Perrone,
i am puzzled by the pistons/master-cyl. dimensions you mentioned.
As I understand hydraulik "amplification" is made by pushing a small volume (hence a smaller mastercylinder would help) into a big one (all the caliper pistons) - at the cost of a longer travel of the pin (->pedal travel) pushing the mastercyl.piston. Making both volumes small would level that out again.
the standard setup (not talking about ABS system) relies heavily on the servo-unit`s assistance. I can tell, because I have been foolish enough not to reconnect the vacuum pipe to it before going ont the road, once. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 09:33 am: |
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Hendrik,
Good catch but I left something out. The trick is not only to use smaller pistons at the caliper, but more of them. This increases the rigidity of the caliper housing but actually increases the total piston surface area to keep in step with the physics principle you just mentioned.
-P |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 01:14 pm: |
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Ron,
how the '90 non-ABS RR brakes are different from '89?
fwiw, the switch-over from Lockheed to (very expensive) Girling MC was between 88 and 89.
peter |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 03:23 pm: |
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What's the difference between the lockheed and the girling?
-P |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 06:10 pm: |
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price for the rebuild kit, for instance.
it may be the only one, but very noticeable
peter |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:46 pm: |
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no difference in performance?
-P |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 04:09 am: |
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"how the '90 non-ABS RR brakes are different from '89?"
90 is when almost all RRs went ABS. My understanding is that the non-abs ones 90-92 were the same as the earlier 89 style.
"fwiw, the switch-over from Lockheed to (very expensive) Girling MC was between 88 and 89."
Humm, thats odd, anyone ever seen an 88 with the lockheed MC, my has a girling? I am pretty sure it was sometime late in 87 it changed over.
Ron |
hendrik
| | Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 06:41 am: |
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Perrone, Hi,
ah, ok.
Could you tell which calipers exactly would fit. I know "AP"-calipers (automotive parts ????). They offer 2,4,6 and even 8piston calipers (the latter @ 1000$ each one). Have you tried them already ? (the ones I have in mind have different sized pistons, the "leading" ones being smaller - maybe the sum of them has no more displacement than OEM - type ?????
If you had the manufacturer and part number of the caliper at hand - would help me a lot !
Rover on .. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 10:49 am: |
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Yea,
If I had the part #, it would help me a lot too! I'm trying to find out that info now. All I know is that this gentleman installed and early disco (94) MC and vacuum booster and two wilwood front calipers which I am trying to find. I believe from the picture I have that they are Wilwood Dynalite calipers but I need to find out which rotor width he got. I also need to find out if they were shimmed in any way.
-P |
Stephan
| | Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 06:26 pm: |
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I finally got my tires on, i went with 33 x 10.5 tsl swampers. They don't rub at all anywhere. A touch on the rear door (weather stripping) but nothing to sweat about. I have all new vaccum lines, a new master cylinder and brand new Kevlar Brake Pads and my tires won't lock up even if i had a running start on the brake pedal. All teh mechanics say "ur truck ways over 6000 pounds, it's not gonna lock up deal with it." It stops, don't get my wrong. At 80 mph she stops much faster than at like 20. The faster i drive the more power ot the brakes. OH well it's Range ROver, shit happens. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 06:46 pm: |
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You aren't getting enough pressure in the lines. Fit a brake pressure tester to the master cylinder and see what knid of pressure you're getting. If the pressure is actually sufficient, then have a look at the brake pads to see if the compound is not getting hot enough at slow speeds to provide good braking.
Can you tell us more about what master cylider you used? I'd love to see about 50 pics of your install as I am probably going to be doing this conversion in a couple of months.
Thanks,
-P |
hendrik
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 06:00 am: |
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Hi stephan,
just a suggestion:
the effect you describe could be linked to the vaccum that assists your foot pressure. On engine-overrun (and this is always the case when you brake, unless you do brake with left foot) the engine creates a vacuum (sucking against the closed butterfly flap at the plenum chamber). The more revs, the more the vacuum.
It`s just a theory of mine. I once had a 2,3l Land Rover diesel. The only diesel-vehicle I know which does not have an extra vacuum pump for the brake-servo and builds up the vacuum in the same manne as the petrol engines. This showed the same effect. I usually shifted down a gear and and let momentum of the vehicle raise the rpm`s before braking if I had time (you can try this even with a automatik). After putting on a vacuum pump from common passenger car this was gone.
regards,
Hendrik |
Stephan
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 08:35 am: |
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I will try and get some pics, but i need to clean the engine first. You won't be able to tell a thing with all hte mud in there. SO i guess i need to get a second vaccum pump. Where is can i go to get a good price? |
John C.
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 08:58 am: |
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Stephan,
Frank purchased one at his local auto parts store. He's not using it. I can ask him to bring it over when we finish installing his ARBs and you can try it.
Later,
John |
hendrik
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 09:19 am: |
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Or plug the original vacuum take off an rely on the pump.
Some cars use a vacuum pump that is mounted at the rear of an alternator. thus no extra drivebelt is necessary. I have been after that too but other things need to come first.
Not sure, but maybe some mercedes use such a thing. |
p m
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 12:26 pm: |
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Hendrik,
an excellent observation. on my rangie, the brake pedal is always softer when i brake after more than moderate throttle application.
peter |
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