| Author | Message | ||
     Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) New Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 16 Registered: 08-2003 |
I have a 97 disco with a Rovertym 3" suspension lift. I have adjustable Rancho 9000's all around. The rear seems to bounce up and down after I go over any bump in the road, like a speed bump for example. I have adjusted the shocks from the firmest to softest settings, but there is little difference. I'm wondering if the shocks or springs are going bad? I have only had the lift for 4-5 months. Thanks, Matt | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 197 Registered: 02-2003 |
Ranchos? Bad? No way. Don't worry, they have a FREE lifetime warranty according to the Rancho supporters here. (*note: the springs are fine) -P | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) New Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 32 Registered: 07-2003 |
Try some OME's. Even my N76 OME shocks have better dampning than the Rancho's, IMO. The N44's were pretty tight. The N76's bounce about 2 times after a big bump. But there are worth it off-road. Good luck | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 153 Registered: 11-2002 |
If you have 9000's and they are maxed out on the settings, and you are still bouncing, the problem is not in the shock, at least not within 4 months. | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 488 Registered: 02-2002 |
How can you say that the springs are fine, especially having not felt the bouncing problem? Have you not heard about Rovertym springs? If we were talking about OME springs, I'd be inclined to rule out the springs. | ||
| Dave_lucas (Dave_lucas) Senior Member Username: Dave_lucas Post Number: 405 Registered: 02-2002 |
FWIW, Everyone that I know that has the Rovertym lift has a bouncing booty...... When I had my DII with 3" Rovertym lift it bounced, I replaced the rear rancho shocks with a new set of ranchos and it still bounced, I am not sure but maybe the shock is wrong for the application, maybe the spring is bouncy or maybe it is a combination of things. Bottom line is that the Rovertym lift is made up of different components to give you more flex and sex where the OME lift was engineered for the application intended. But that is just my opinion Maybe you should try giving Rovertym a call and see if they have any recomendations, they have always been very willing to answer my questions. | ||
| Reed Cotton (Reedcotton) Senior Member Username: Reedcotton Post Number: 267 Registered: 01-2003 |
Matt- First define "bounce". Is it bouncing because the new springs are not compressing much at all? then you need more weight in the back (or softer springs). this is a really jaring type of bounce. If it is bouncing because the sprengs are compressing, then recompressing, then recompressing, then... (Floating like a '56 Buick) then it is probably the shocks aren't damping the springs enough. I am not familiar with the 9000 Rancho's so, forgive my ignorance, but are the shocks mounted right side up? Good luck, -Reed | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 243 Registered: 02-2002 |
Disconnect the shocks and set to the lowest setting and see how the shock feels. The shocks might be shot. If you feel any slop in the shocks, they're done for. I went through two sets of the 9234's in less than 10k miles with minimal rough stuff on the suspension - no washboard roads, etc. However they were mounted upside down. This is most likely what was the problem. RTE has recently come out with the new mounts that mount the 9234s correctly. With the 3" lift, at least on the Disco1, the eye-to-eye mounts in the rear keep the shocks mounted right side up. My brother has the 3" RTE lift with the Ranchos and has had no problems for the last 25K miles. | ||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) New Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 17 Registered: 08-2003 |
The bouncing feels like I have no shocks in the rear. As it turns out that was the case, the Ranchos in the back are shot. They have no dampening affect from halfway out, till fully compressed. They weren't doing anything for the rear suspension at all. They must of gone bad lately because this problem suddenly came up. So it looks like I'll be getting some new shocks. I appreciate all the advice you guys gave me, that's why I like discoweb so much. Thanks, Matt | ||
| Adam Ross (Discodriveradam) Member Username: Discodriveradam Post Number: 89 Registered: 01-2003 |
Matt, I have much the same setup as you, and I also used to bounce a lot. I still do a bit, but not near as much as I used to. Here's what I did: when you adjust your shocks stiffer, make sure you go all the way to the stiffest setting, and then work your way back down to the desired setting. | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 201 Registered: 02-2003 |
Just get some good shocks that are valved properly for the springs you have. And Koby, I felt very comfortable saying it wasn't the springs. And yes, I've heard all about RoverTym springs since I helped develop spring rates with them, and I run them on my truck. By the way, my RTE springs (3" HD) have not sagged whatsoever in the 2 years I've owned them, and my Bilstein OME style shocks damp them just fine, as did my OME's before. -P | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 154 Registered: 11-2002 |
"Just get some good shocks that are valved properly for the springs you have. And Koby, I felt very comfortable saying it wasn't the springs. And yes, I've heard all about RoverTym springs since I helped develop spring rates with them, and I run them on my truck. By the way, my RTE springs (3" HD) have not sagged whatsoever in the 2 years I've owned them, and my Bilstein OME style shocks damp them just fine, as did my OME's before." ROFLMAO  | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 373 Registered: 03-2003 |
"And yes, I've heard all about RoverTym springs since I helped develop spring rates with them." This is some funny shit. | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 203 Registered: 02-2003 |
Glad to humor you John Lee. -P | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 788 Registered: 02-2003 |
fight nice boys and lets get back to bashing the ranchoes.. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 339 Registered: 04-2003 |
Those ranchos only made it 4-5 months? That's unacceptable. | ||
| James (Jimmyg) Senior Member Username: Jimmyg Post Number: 387 Registered: 10-2002 |
I've had RTE 2inch and 3 inch springs and no sagging. They are stiffer than OME though. When I had Rancho's, the truck did bounce more than it should. I put on Bilstein 7100's in the rear and 6100's in the front and no more bouncing! Springs are fine, Rancho sucks. You just need a good shock that matches your spring. | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 492 Registered: 02-2002 |
All I'm saying is that given the recent history of RTE springs, it's ludicrous to immediately rule the springs out as a potential cause of the bouncing. | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 246 Registered: 02-2002 |
Koby: for purposes of discussion, let's assume that the RTE springs are poorly made. How does that lead you to conclude that the springs alone could be causing a bouncing ride? All springs will cause a bouncing action if not properly dampened. | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 204 Registered: 02-2003 |
Koby, no one with any understanding of how a suspension works would suspect springs in givem the information this poster did. The key being that the onset of the problem was rapid, indicating that everything was fine, and something failed. When springs fail, they bounce less, not more, due to losing tension. -P | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 493 Registered: 02-2002 |
I'm making the assumption that the RTE springs have been rated at a particular spring rate, but have not been engineered properly. If the spring compression rate is not even throughout the compression of the spring, or if the spring rate is progressive and "progresses" too fast, then any shock would have problems damping that spring. I have always been leery of small-time shops that manufacture springs. Their R & D CAN'T be as robust as a manufacturer like Old Man Emu, not to mention quality control. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 379 Registered: 03-2003 |
"no one with any understanding of how a suspension works would suspect springs in givem the information this poster did." Well, Perrone, I guess this means you have no understanding. This was the description: "The rear seems to bounce up and down after I go over any bump in the road, like a speed bump for example. I have adjusted the shocks from the firmest to softest settings, but there is little difference. I'm wondering if the shocks or springs are going bad? I have only had the lift for 4-5 months." It certainly does sound like bad shocks. Bad shocks would be my first guess. However, that is not to say it is impossible for the springs to be the cause of this bouncing. For example, the springs could have crapped out and caused the shocks to go bad because the shocks had to work harder. The springs could be out of spec and be lighter than their nominal ratings, causing a heavily loaded vehicle to bounce up and down and put wear and tear on the shocks. These are not far-fetched possibilities. They are well within the realm of substantial probability. | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 206 Registered: 02-2003 |
Well, Progressive springs get harder to compress the more the spring compresses. So it stands to reason that on the street, the problem would likely be least noticible there. Also, since the user had a properly working suspension to start with even with his RTE springs installed, it's safe to assume that the springs hadn't "failed" and were suddenly uncompressable or incapable of being damped. Define small-tim shop. Would you consider AFCO a small time spring shot? How about King Springs? Hypercoils? They certainly aren't the size of OME, but hundreds of racers who make their living based on their cars and trucks feel the R&D is just fine at those "small-time" shops. Maybe you should tell Roger Penske to stop fooling around with Hypercoils, and start using a large shop with more resources. I always thought R&D and quality control came down to the people doing the work, not the size of the shop. Man, don't let Porsche or Ferrari get wind of this. -P | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 207 Registered: 02-2003 |
John Lee, While I agree with your assessment of how the problem could have occured, the failure in the system at present is the shocks are ineffective. If we delve deeper for the "why" did the shocks fail, then your argument is perfectly viable. The one gotcha in all this, is that even when a spring loses tension, it doesn't gain or lose "spring rate". So it may sag, but it won't suddenly provide 110ppi or 400ppi if it was originally rated at 150ppi. It's decreased travel will force the shock to do more work though on the compression side. Do you agree? -P | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 494 Registered: 02-2002 |
Small-time = production and distribution. You can't say that RTE has distribution numbers anywhere near any of the shops you named. Apples and Oranges. You know what I mean. | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 208 Registered: 02-2003 |
Yea, I understand. But to me, just because someone has a one-man shop or even a 10 man shop, doesn't mean they can't do good work. And I am sure a lot of small business owners would feel the same way. -P | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 495 Registered: 02-2002 |
Perhaps it should be considered then that some springs are falling through the cracks and RTE is not doing as good a job as they could. | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) New Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 35 Registered: 07-2003 |
It seems that RTE has kick-ass springs for off-road use. Most of the people who even know about RTE use their truck off-road. If I had a trail rig rover I would consider the RTE's. But, since my wife drives my truck with my kids I like to know the OME springs are "proven", and are not going to break while she is driving. I guess what I am trying to say is why bother with Rancho's and RTE springs if you want to stay with the "Land Rover" ride quality? IMO, Rancho's are junk, ranked up there with Skyjacker shocks. If you want a great ride buy the OME stuff, and you won't have to worry about the bouncing. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 789 Registered: 02-2003 |
it was always my understanding that RTE isn't actually producing springs in thier shop. they sub the work out to someone who does springs. i've never owned RTE springs so i have no opinion. i can say i never thought of john as the kind of guy who was out to rip someone off by selling them crap. he made his fame in the beginning for having over engineered, unbreakable replacement parts. i feel confident that a small shop can, and often are, the ones producing the highest quality parts. rd | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 380 Registered: 03-2003 |
"While I agree with your assessment of how the problem could have occured, the failure in the system at present is the shocks are ineffective. If we delve deeper for the "why" did the shocks fail, then your argument is perfectly viable." This is different than your previous position of: "no one with any understanding of how a suspension works would suspect springs in givem the information this poster did." Again, this guy's problem is probably bad shocks. But it's not absurd to say his springs could be the cause of his problems. If someone has a fried wheel bearing and someone says "check your wheel balance", that's not an absurd statement. "The one gotcha in all this, is that even when a spring loses tension, it doesn't gain or lose "spring rate". So it may sag, but it won't suddenly provide 110ppi or 400ppi if it was originally rated at 150ppi. It's decreased travel will force the shock to do more work though on the compression side." This is not so. Certainly it can be so but it doesn't have to be. You don't accept changing spring rates as even a possibility because it's not contained in your Google searches or your reference formulae. But a springs can and do change in rate with use. You might say that because the spring's length has changed and a spring's rate is a function of its length, its rate has not changed though its length has changed. This may sound clever to you but it doesn't always comport with reality. Your current statements remind me of when you previously stated that the only way to measure a spring's actual rate was to measure the coil diameter and length and plug the data into a formula. My response to that was that the formula was useful but that you would get a truer measure of a spring's rate by actually measuring it. Have you ever read A Farewell to Arms? You remind me of that doctor in that book. I don't even remember the protagonist's name, but I remember this doctor. I'm talking about the doctor who refused to believe the protagonist had shell splinters in his leg. The protagonist told the doctor that he had shell splinters in his leg and he was complaining about the pain. The doctor pulled his x-ray, examined the x-ray very carefully, and concluded that there were no shell splinters in the protagonist's leg. The protagonist said, "look, you can see the entry holes and you can even feel the shell splinters under my skin." Instead of looking at the patient's leg, the doctor re-examined the x-ray and concluded that the patient must be mistaken. Your way of looking at the world reminds me of this doctor. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 993 Registered: 09-2002 |
BTW, a spring's rate may actually increase as it sags - it is called work hardening (it becomes more brittle, too, but that's beside the point). A stiffer spring, compounded with a shock with a piston near the top of the fluid level, can result in exactly the type of bouncy ride Matthew described. | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 496 Registered: 02-2002 |
Perrone, you want me to concede that the problem is bad shocks. You are probably correct. I don't think that Rancho makes a good shock absorber, and these are probably the source of his problem. However, I believe the problem was probably exacerbated by the springs. I don't think that Rancho makes a good shock, nor do I think that RTE makes a good spring, especially given some of RTE's recent spring failures. Bottom line is this: I feel you were a little too quick to rule out the spring in this case. | ||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) New Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 18 Registered: 08-2003 |
I certainly wasn't expecting this big of a response! I was happy with my RTE suspension up until the time this started happening. I still have faith in my suspension, but I now HATE Rancho shocks. I have nothing bad to say at all when it comes to RTE. I think they're a great company who treats there customers right. I dont have that much time to work over the summer because of varsity football, so all the money I make is very carefully spent. That's why I just purchased a bumper from RTE, because I have confidence in there products. I get this confidence from reading about how so many people are happy with there lift, bumper, or whatever. Everbody has there own opinion. Sounds like I'm going to have to buy some OME or Bilstien shocks. Recommendations? Thanks, Matt | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 209 Registered: 02-2003 |
Ok John and Koby. I accept what you have to say. And I was probably too quick to dismiss other possibilities. Matthew, I've run OME and Bilstein shocks. Both are excellent. -P | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 498 Registered: 02-2002 |
Matthew, if you've got the 3" lift, I think the OME shocks would be a better choice. Word is the Bilstein shocks do not quite have as long a stroke as the OME's | ||
| James (Jimmyg) Senior Member Username: Jimmyg Post Number: 388 Registered: 10-2002 |
Koby,"...long a stroke" Which Bilsteins? I've yet to see an OME that can reach were the 6100's or 7100's do. I just broke a OME shock last month. Does that mean OME sucks? NO! OME = Good Bilsteins = Good OME = 2year warranty RTE = 2 or more. They are different. Remember, happy folks are less vocal about problems. After seeing the RTE shop, I agree that the springs are not made in shop. I have seen OLD RTE springs sag bad but they are replaced as soon as the complaint is voiced with their new springs. Shit, every Disco is like comparing apples to oranges... not like they are all the same! WORD | ||
| Kobayashi (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 514 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jimmy- Nice to see you come to periscope depth. We miss your entertaining stories. I'll let someone else expand on this. I'm no expert. | ||
| Robb Sundmaker (Robb) Member Username: Robb Post Number: 78 Registered: 03-2002 |
I am having the same problem as Mathew. The only difference is I have the RTE 2" lift whereas Mathew has the 3" lift. Like everyone else my Ranchos are mounted "upside down" and only lasted months (not years) before they quit working. I bought another pair of Ranchos from RTE but have not put them on. I am considering sending them back and getting OMEs/Bilsteins because I do not want to go through this again in another year. My questions are: 1. Are Bilsteins really over $150 per shock? 2. Which OME should I buy for the rear, the N44 or N73? Any help is appreciated. |
