| Author | Message | ||
     Ben Ziskind (Tyziskben) Member Username: Tyziskben Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2002 |
Let me just make sure I"m getting this right...You have your 3:54 ring and pinion gearing located in the 3rd member;on the left and right of the gearing are the long inner axels, 10 spline;then comes the swivel ball, and on the outsides, the cv joints which have the stub axles (10spline) and caps. When upgrading the rear 10 spline axels on your RRC, such as an 89, to say, 24 spline's, can you directly swap these axels into the stock 3:54 ring/pinion gearing, and keep the 10 spline outers/cv's........or do you have to upgrade the inner and outer cv's/axels at the same time??? I ask because I noticed there are a set of 24 spline rear axels for sale on the board, and I was thinking of upgrading my rears... Thanks in advance, Ben | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) New Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 38 Registered: 04-2003 |
Let me first make a few general statements: It is much more important to up grade the rear axles than the front(for off road purposes). It is also much easier and cheaper than the front axles. The CV and swivel issues only apply to the front. Even if you convert to 24 spline in the front it is not much better strength wise. But I think the 24 spline front axle/CVs are cheaper to replace; and it would be easy to swap in custom high strength axles once the 24 spline set up is in place. Also note that if you swap enough parts off of an ABS RRC or D1, you can make it work. There may be another issue in the fronts with the typeA axles(87-89RR). Larry Harrel at The Rover Club House has converted his 89 to 24 spline. The 24 spline rear axles are ~twice as strong as your 10 spline. You will need the axles, the 24 spline drive flanges, 24 spline diff gears, and the ABS type hub and spindles. I would seriously consider buying an entire ABS type rear axle assembly and just swap it whole. Bottom line is that you need a donor vehicle or axle assembly for parts, not just the axle shaftss. Randall | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 791 Registered: 02-2003 |
ben you are switching from the rear of the car to front and i'm not sure what you are asking. when you hear of swapping from ten to 24 spline, it really has nothing to do with the gears. it is the "carrier" that the gears are bolted to which contain the differntial itself that has the 10 or 24 female splines. it is not a worth while upgrade to change your rear axels from 10 spline RR to 24 spline. there is a lot of work needed and not too much gained. as fro the front it gets tricky. depending on the year range rover you have. i have heard the ten spline non ABS axels are stronger than the 10 and 24 spline ABS compatable version. any way you slice it, the axel is not really the weak link. frankly it is best if the axel stub is what breaks in my opinion bewcasue then you dont have the CV shrapnel grinding itself away in the swivel ball. if you are truely serious about upgradeing call bill at great basin. he has new and used parts and will guide you in the best direction. just dont be a dick and pick his brain and then go some where else to buy what you need. rd | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 42 Registered: 04-2003 |
That's rig...it's the diff that has the splines not the gears. Also definately need to consider what is going to break if the axle doesn't. But normal everyday off-roading should not break the 24 spline rear shafts. Randall | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 102 Registered: 05-2003 |
Sounds like it's not worth the swap unless you're going to do rock crawling. | ||
| patrick findlay (Montreal) New Member Username: Montreal Post Number: 25 Registered: 06-2003 |
if you rock crawl whats the advantage? | ||
| Ben Ziskind (Tyziskben) Member Username: Tyziskben Post Number: 109 Registered: 11-2002 |
Just was curious since I've upgraded to 38" swamper TSL's (spec out to be roughly 36") and I wanted to strengthen everything before I even think about offroading it......... Ben | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 45 Registered: 04-2003 |
With those tires the chances of breaking an axle goes up dramatically. The pre-air spring RRCs are great off-road in stock form. But if need to upgrade the drive train it will cost thousands. and as explained above: Step one will be swapping lots of 24 spline parts off a doner LR. Signs you need to upgrade your RRC axles: Have already broken an axle. Hard-core or agressive off-roader. Incresed engine torque. Increased tire size. Changed axle ratios. Torgue ratings supplied by Maxi-Drive: 10 spline 1" axle can handle ~2657ftlbs torque 10 spline 1" alloy axle ~4362 24 spline 1.25" OE axle ~5184 24 spline 1.25" alloy axle ~8530ftlbs Randall | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 804 Registered: 02-2003 |
if you just upgrade your axels you are going to grenade the diffs, they are weak as hell also. considering your range rover has some age, it is going to take thousands of $ in mods to make a truck with tires that big trail ready and reasonably strong. rd | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 103 Registered: 05-2003 |
You may need to talk to the folks on the "Pirates" BB. Most of 'em have already done what you want to do. | ||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 241 Registered: 09-2002 |
Alright now I am confused as hell. I want to get a detroit locker in the rear, then eventually go with a tru trac up front. So do I get a 10spline, or what should I upgrade. Thanks, I just read an older post on discoverys side that says upgrade, so I am a little confused | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 805 Registered: 02-2003 |
aaron if you do one diff at a time you can run 24 spline in the rear and the stock stuff up front. but like it says 100 time in the disco section if you go detroit rear and plan on taking it offroad you'll want to have the HD axels (24 spln) or you run the high risk of blowing a stock axel and killing the detroit. if you toss in the 24 spline detroit and disco axels into your RR(which may or maynot work depending on if you have an ABS RR)and stay on the road you'll probably be okay for a while, but you still have to see, if you have a detroit that likes to bang and pop it will be putting the axels under more stress. rd | ||
| Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Member Username: Larryg Post Number: 239 Registered: 03-2002 |
Dude if you seriously just upgraded to 36" swampers and are just now thinking about axle strength you definitely have a problem. I can say with certainty that the first time you give even the slightest bit too much of the skinny pedal you will shear those axles in half. You need more than the Disco stock 24-spline axles if you don't want to have to change the broken ones out ever couple of weeks. Larry | ||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 242 Registered: 09-2002 |
Rob let me give details. Yes I have a 1990 RR which has the ABS, so what does that entail, I will add the ABS is non functional, due to its own problems. So if I had non abs it would be as simple as changing the diff and the axles, but with ABS what needs to happen. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 982 Registered: 02-2002 |
Larry - that sounded weird to me too - sounded a bit like a troll..... Throw 36" swampers on a stock truck? Something fishy or seriously fucked up here..... Bill | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 50 Registered: 04-2003 |
Aaron It would be easier to modify if you have an ABS truck. You're trying to set drive train up like a LWB RRC, or a D1. That's where most of the aftermarket HD parts are going to be directed. Aim for that setup and choose aftermarket parts that are need for your ultimate goal. The actual brake parts don't need to change. Keep the ones you got now. Before the Discovery came out, there were only a few hundred to a max of 3000 of any one LR model sent to the USA. Each model had a different axle combination. Randall | ||
| Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Member Username: Larryg Post Number: 240 Registered: 03-2002 |
Bill, I'm with you. I know a few guys with 37's but that required tons of cutting. I have 35's and that takes a bit of cutting as well. I smell something fishy! Larry | ||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 244 Registered: 09-2002 |
So I should set it up like Rob said. 24 spline locker and axles in rear, and 10 spline tru trac and axles in front, , So I assume the rear axles just pull out and the new ones go in when I have the locker installed? | ||
| Sean Arney (Seana) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Seana Post Number: 45 Registered: 05-2003 |
Dude, take it from me, I blew out the 10 splines in back with 31s on an '88 - doesnt matter. Put in a Detroit or ARB in the back, 24 spline and let the front go until it pops, then deal with it gracefully...and start saving up now! DEFINATELY call Bill at Great Basin...best guy around for this kind of swap and unless you only want to go about 50mph all the way to the trail and back, you might as well start the "ring and pinion" fund. As soon as the front grenades, you can put in the r&p front and back, then the locker and 24 splines up there. It'll be fun. -seanA | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 814 Registered: 02-2003 |
i've seen the video of seans blowing, he looked like he was having a good time.. haha aaron call bill, he's an expert. rd | ||
| AC Donahue (Deoppressoliber) New Member Username: Deoppressoliber Post Number: 11 Registered: 07-2003 |
I've been talking to Bill at Great Basin for some time. He is very patient to explain everything to you and give you all the costs. I haven't bought the max set-up from him yet for my '90 Rangie because -- parts alone -- we're talking in $3,500 plus range for complete overhaul of front & rear axels. Contributions gladly accepted. | ||
| micky dee (Kincangokicker) Member Username: Kincangokicker Post Number: 53 Registered: 06-2003 |
why not consider volvo portal axles? get rid of the famous land rover breaking axles altogether and these portals even have lockers in them. now is the question of making them fit or will they fit? | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 649 Registered: 08-2002 |
All of the trucks that I have seen with portal axles loose a lot of hghway speed. I.e. Volvo, Pinz and mog. This page confirms it but also mentions that there are high speed axles too. Interesting for sure. http://www.geocities.com/landyshah/adik7.html | ||
| Ben Ziskind (Tyziskben) Member Username: Tyziskben Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ok, so i've been driving the rover around now for about a week with the approx 36" swamper TSL's, still with the stock axels, gearing, cv's etc...And just to reiterate the lift that I have on the rover: OME HD springs F&R, Bilstein shocks F&R, 2" spacers F&R w/ relacation brackets i the front to get the 2" of travel back..Rear lowering brackets are next!!!, and a RTE 2" body lift...The trimming was VERY minimal; The plastic sills were removed,Nothing was cut in the rear, and in the front only about 1/2" on the sides of the wheel wells were trimmed...that's it, and it comes to about 6-7" of lift, with GCR 15x8 rims, and Super Swamper tires(they say 38", but measure out to be 36-37" since they aren't new) And here's what i've found out: 1)On the highway, I get a max speed of 60mph, not too bad considering I still have the 3:54 gearing ( all axels, cv's, and gearing is going to be upgraded next summer...I'm looking at ECR to do this for me, unless I can source the parts myself ALOT cheaper, and do the labor myself, otherwise ECR looks very appealing) 2)Braking is about the same as it was with the 32" BFG MT's...I'm gonna replace all the pads since they are a bit worn, which should improve stopping distance a little, but otherwise I am very surprised and pleased 3)Handling isn't that great...The rover tends to veer off to the right when I take my hands off the wheel on a straight road, where as before it would stay relatively straight...And over bumps the wheel turns itself more than I'd like...I'm thinking that I need to upgrade to a OME damper (without question!!!), but was wondering what else may be causing this since the PS box, PS pump, and most of the other steering components are pretty new...I also replaced the passenger side swivel ball/axels/hub,etc when this occured with the 32" BFG's before, and it helped dramatically...maybe i have a bad driver side swivel??? or is this normal behavior for a rover with tires this big..running stock gearing/axels/etc??? 4)Road noise is, well, as expected, LOUD!!! Even going 30mph the tires hummm..ha ha...But It's well worth it!!!! 5)Turning radius is about the same..steering stops are all the way in, and I don't really have any complaints here This truck is being built up slowly, so It will NOT be offroaded till everything is upgraded to par, and beyond...which I do every summer, one thing at a time, depending on the parts I can get at the best possible prices at the time (this summer it happened to be the tires/wheels/and lift) As of right now, it's my daily driver, approx 10-15 miles a day back and forth to school here at Univ. of Hartford...It will only be driven on the highway 2-3x all year, and my MPG is about 8-10mpg city, and an AMAZING 13-14mpg highway, which isn't too shabby at all... So that's about it, and I'll try and get pics on here as soon as i can... One thing this truck does get though is A LOT of second looks...and compliments from friends and other offroaders...Most thought it would be too top heavy, but with the 12.50 tires, and a wider body than a disco...it is VERY stable Hope to hear back with any insight, thoughts, Ben [email protected] |
