| Author | Message | ||
     John Henry (Alaskanwolf) New Member Username: Alaskanwolf Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2003 |
Hi, have a silly question. A friend is getting a rover as soon as the dealer finds the one he wants. With it being AWD, do you need a center diff lock or just front and rear lockers, I have no idea how the rover's system works. Thanks. TJ | ||
| Ross Thoma (Rossthoma) Member Username: Rossthoma Post Number: 186 Registered: 08-2002 |
I have a 2003 and would wait to get the 2004 with a cdl I was playing around with the disco and while the tc on the disco is good in some situations having the cdl will greatly improve the all around off road capabilities of the truck. Just today I was out with my 95 stocke axel ranger with 31" A/T tyres and easily went up 3 different sand hills on the first try that I couldn't make it up in the landy having tried many times. Don't get me wrong, the Landy is great but I deffinatly feel more confident with my ranger, the TC in short bursts is verry efective but it won't let you spin the tyres and keep the rpm's up when negotiating long stretches when you have to give her shit, and in that I am very dissapointed in the 03 landy. Ross Thoma | ||
| John Henry (Alaskanwolf) New Member Username: Alaskanwolf Post Number: 2 Registered: 08-2003 |
Thanks for the advice. But, is it not possible then to put in your own lockers in an 03 Disco? | ||
| Ross Thoma (Rossthoma) Member Username: Rossthoma Post Number: 188 Registered: 08-2002 |
In the axels, yes. In the t-case no ( but I am looking into it.) Locking up the axels will stop the TC from countering the slippage from each of the front wheels OR the rear wheels but there is no locking the front drive shaft to the rear drive shaft like in conventional part time 4x4s. This is not a problem on road but off road it really limits the truck's abilities. Ross Thoma | ||
| John Henry (Alaskanwolf) New Member Username: Alaskanwolf Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2003 |
So he can add an ARB locker in the rear without confusing the AWD(full time 4WD or whatever rover calls it) and without making the front wheels just sit there and spin or something? | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 478 Registered: 03-2002 |
from late 2001 until 2004, the disco will need some big tweeking (like replacing the output case on the transfer case) to activate the cdl. while it is possible to add lockers (limited slip, autolocking, or an air locker) to the diffs, it seems to be the feeling amongst some of the more off road active folks on this board that what you gain by adding lockers to a non-cdl truck does not necessarly add to the off road prowess of the truck. you are better off either investing the locker money into a cdl transfer case or waiting until 2004. adding cdl to a truck with etc will get you much more than adding lockers to an etc truck. imho... mike | ||
| John Henry (Alaskanwolf) New Member Username: Alaskanwolf Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2003 |
Thanks Mike! When you say, CDL you mean center locking diff? Im clueless when it comes to rovers. I asked this question because he mentioned needing a center locking diff, but we couldn't find any for sale anywhere. So, what does one need to buy, and where can one get it? Im used to just needing to throw a detroit or ARB in the front and rear. ;) | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 481 Registered: 03-2002 |
yeah, john...exactly...sorry, it is habit for me to shorten center diff lock to cdl and electronic traction control to etc... if you are a jeeper, the transfer case in a rover is a little different. i may not be exactly right, but...in jeeps, i understand that engaging 4 wheel acts as a type of locked center diff. and that is why it is not recommended to drive on dry or hard pavement with the 4 wheel engaged. the transfer case in a rover is an open diff so that the 4 wheel is engaged all the time. up until '99 and 1/2 (series 1 discos), you can move from 4 wheel high to 4 wheel low and lock the center diff. in the '99 and 1/2 to '01 and 1/2 (series 2) discos, the linkage to engage the cdl was removed, but the cdl hardware is still inside the case. all you had to do was add a series 1 high/low lever and attach the linkage. from '01 to the end of 03 (series 2) the hardware is still inside the case, but there is no longer a shaft that connects the hardware inside to the outside world (and therefore nothing to connect linkage to). so......now we get to the real issue of your question... ;) basically, to install a cdl that can be activated into the truck, you would have to either: a) replace the entire transfer case with one that has the cdl stud and install either a series 1 high/low lever or selenoid actuator, or; b) wait for 2004 or buy before late 2001, or; c) check into some hearsay...it has been alleged that a guy named bill at great basin rovers in salt lake city is developing a retrofit kit that will replace the output cone for the transfer case with one that has the shaft and the linkage... option "c" is the one i am looking forward to...i need to check the accuracy of that. i have just heard of it from other people, so i would like hear it from bill himself... if you look at the resources section above, there is a good list of vendors. and there is a good section with tech articles above and also on expeditionexchange.com... good luck to you guys! mike | ||
| John Henry (Alaskanwolf) New Member Username: Alaskanwolf Post Number: 5 Registered: 08-2003 |
Thanks alot Mike. You've cleared everything up. I actually drive an Xterra (Jeeps break too much), but I've never had to deal with AWD. I guess everyone knows their application. ;) I'll let him know about his options if he goes with the 03 Disco. TJ | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 483 Registered: 03-2002 |
glad to be of some help...do a few searches on the site and you will find quite a few discussions of cdl...also, it has been discussed a few times regarding installing diff lockers in trucks with only etc and no cdl. there is quite a bit of info that you guys may find interesting. there are a few folks that think that adding trutracs front and rear to non cdl trucks will be an improvement over no lockers at all, but in my humble opinion, i plan to save the money for any lockers at all and just wait to rig some kind of access to the cdl. one other note i find of interest...there are not too many castor correction kits for late model disco's and if you lift your truck enough, you might find that it wanders a bit. the addition of a tru trac to the front seems to correct (or at least compensate) for the castor being off... for what it is worth... you will find a lot of info on this site, happy reading! mike | ||
| Ted Moyer (Tedmoyer) New Member Username: Tedmoyer Post Number: 17 Registered: 07-2003 |
You can, in fact, add a CDL to a 2001-2003 Disco II, it requires swapping out the front part of the T-case housing. I had my '02 done at Bill's European in Santa Fe. Used a housing and linkage from an '87 RR - It is not necessary to remove the T-case to do the work. If you can wait to order an '04 with this as factory spec it is a better option - but it can be done with an '03. The combination of ETC and CDL is pretty sweet. I would just play with that for a while before adding lockers in the diffs. cheers, Ted c) check into some hearsay...it has been alleged that a guy named bill at great basin rovers in salt lake city is developing a retrofit kit that will replace the output cone for the transfer case with one that has the shaft and the linkage... | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 485 Registered: 03-2002 |
if you don't mind me asking, ted... what did that cost you and how long was the install? thanks mike | ||
| Ted Moyer (Tedmoyer) New Member Username: Tedmoyer Post Number: 18 Registered: 07-2003 |
It was $1K parts and labor. The install takes about a day, but Bill asks to keep the truck a day and a half to check everything out. A bit pricey yes, but after seeing the ETC go out on a few trucks on the trail, and after having experienced a really scary failed hill climb, I decided a mechanical locking center differential was critical. I like the work Bill did - the whole Rangie linkage is there, so it is a slap over to lock just like a Disco 1. As a note, I have also seen the solenoid opererated CDL fail when the electrics went. cheers, Ted | ||
| Eric Olsen (Eric_olsen) Member Username: Eric_olsen Post Number: 78 Registered: 02-2003 |
"it seems to be the feeling amongst some of the more off road active folks on this board that what you gain by adding lockers to a non-cdl truck does not necessarly add to the off road prowess of the truck." John, I have 2000 Disco w/ETC and the center diff lock, ARB lockers front and rear. The ETC and CDL are no comparison to the ARB's. The CDL however is a great feature, it will keep your ETC activating from front to rear while the ARB's are in use. Without the ARB's the CDL will keep your ETC from coming on as much, but IMO the ETC is just as effective by itself. | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 488 Registered: 03-2002 |
thanks ted... i will be in new mexico on a trip west in october. maybe i will give bill a call and see what he can work out. i like sante fe, but i am more of a taos guy, so if it takes more than a day maybe i will rent a car and stay north...or maybe pitch a tent in madrid! eric, i was not implying that lockers and etc were of no use, after asking directly on this board once before what the better investment was and while there were voices for both no cdl and lockers are fine and cdl and no lockers were fine, by adding cdl if at all possible, you gain some "intangibles" that lockers will not give you. such as the ability to drop an axle and still get out if you have cv trouble. also, some claim that etc alone is hard on spider gears (not a problem for you as you have upgraded your diff). the best solution, imho, is lockers, cdl, and etc... oh, john...also, a search of this site will also give you the secret to "select" how all this comes into play. i can't remember how it all works, but the ecu senses the activation of the cdl if it is activated with the key off (i think). when you turn the key on it deactivates the etc. so, depending upon when you activate the cdl, you can have cdl and etc, or cdl and no etc...and if you add air lockers, you add a whole other level of selectability to your driving choices... mike | ||
| Eric Olsen (Eric_olsen) Member Username: Eric_olsen Post Number: 79 Registered: 02-2003 |
Michael, I am all for the CDL, if for no other reason than to limit the ETC kicking in. I will confirm that the ETC is hard on the spider gears, as I have had to replace them twice. This is how I ended up with the ARB's. I was just pointing out that the ARB's even without the cdl engaged are totally amazing. If you ever have to replace the spiders don't rule out some type of locker. | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 490 Registered: 03-2002 |
thanks eric! i would rather walk in the footsteps of someone that has been down a path before, than blaze every trail! i think i remember your discussion of your spider gear troubles on another post. maybe that is why i remember that "some claim that etc alone is hard on spider gears." ;) ha! mike | ||
| John Henry (Alaskanwolf) New Member Username: Alaskanwolf Post Number: 6 Registered: 08-2003 |
Thanks guys. My concern was that with all wheel drive (the disco II is awd right?) was that with a locker(s) installed, it would screw up. He's considering the CDL after having the truck a month or two. (accumulation of funds) |
