| Author | Message | ||
     mantaray (Mantaray) Member Username: Mantaray Post Number: 150 Registered: 02-2002 |
haven't seen this here yet, so i do apologize if it's a repost. H2 doing nothing extreme, but breaking things. funny, but not meant to start another H2 vs. Disco flame war. ;) http://www.alecwallis.com/video/KilledIT.wmv | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 698 Registered: 08-2002 |
I can't find that link, but likely it was of the wheeler lake run that Brian Friend also attended. Brian really hammered a rear link as well. Likely on a tough line. Rear trailing arms, track rods, drag link, ujoints, rotoflex and differentials are all quite easy to munch on any vehicle. Doesn't matter if it is a Disco, D90 or H2, all can be damaged just as easily. All it takes is a few mistakes and you could easily hammer a disco on this trail as well. Especially with a POS stock trackrod. I hammered mine about 5 times, replaced it with a used on, hammered that a few times before I relocated the damper and upgraded it (of course, now I have yet to hit it, knock on wood). | ||
| mantaray (Mantaray) Member Username: Mantaray Post Number: 152 Registered: 02-2002 |
http://sajeeps.billmcgaw.com/video/KilledIT.wmv just to try again. it worked on the board i just pulled it from. | ||
| David Seger (Croakus) New Member Username: Croakus Post Number: 40 Registered: 06-2003 |
That's seriously painfull to watch. That could also easily happen to anyone. He just gave it too much gas at the wrong time. Rocks will break anything. | ||
| Alec Wallis (Alec_w) New Member Username: Alec_w Post Number: 40 Registered: 05-2003 |
Yep too much skinny peddle. Yet another learning experiance. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 705 Registered: 08-2002 |
Well I finally got to see it. What trail is that? From looking at it, it seems like he would have hit the tie rod even if going slow. Maybe it would have broken maybe not, but it sems a bit vulnerable to me. What part snapped on it? Tie rod end? Tie rod itself? | ||
| mantaray (Mantaray) Member Username: Mantaray Post Number: 154 Registered: 02-2002 |
i'll try to find the post i got it from to see if i can get what trail it is. i think he popped the tie rod end. it looks to be a case of a bad line and too much gas to me. if you listen to the people in the background the spot claimed another vehicle, though it's unclear whether the other was another H2 or not. | ||
| Alec Wallis (Alec_w) Member Username: Alec_w Post Number: 42 Registered: 05-2003 |
Bill Moore Lake, Colo. Easy trail but I just screwed up and paid the price. I hit the gas too hard and broke it. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 706 Registered: 08-2002 |
Hmmm, was that the part where you can go right or left and the right is mogully and lose? It did not look like that spot (where I consider the trail most difficult). I twisted the heck out of my rotoflex on that part, but made it. I'd like to try it and see how easy it is now since I have a better non-roto rear drive shaft. | ||
| Alec Wallis (Alec_w) Member Username: Alec_w Post Number: 44 Registered: 05-2003 |
I don't think so; the chute is at the very beginning of trail. After the mine you wind up a switch back road a few times and the come to a fork in a wooded area. The left is the chute and the right is a bypass. Half way up the shoot is a huge tree truck sticking out, I know tree this well because I hit it. Up until that weekend the chute was easy but it was de-graded by a local Jeep club. I would say it went from a 4 to a 6 overnight. Maybe even a 7 because the bigger rocks were still moving and not yet settled. BML sure is a pretty place though. I would say it's probably the most scenic trail I have run this year. It’s a shame there is no fish in the lake.  | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 709 Registered: 08-2002 |
Huh. Sounds like I have completely missed it both times I have been up there. Will have to head back up there to check it out again. I haven't done that trail for 4-5 months now. If it looks anything close to the nasty loose stuff on spring creek, I will go around (experience has taught me a few things recently too). Nice photo. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 724 Registered: 05-2002 |
Something just does not look right. The left-side wheel is spinning way too much. Doesn't the H2 have ETC (or whatever GM calls it)? If ETC was engaged, traction control should have kicked in and prevented what looks like too much sudden torque to the right front wheel. It looks like the problem was the torque combined with steering the vehicle left. -Curtis | ||
| Steve (Steve_r) New Member Username: Steve_r Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2003 |
Curtis...correct!!! I'm not a complete techno-wizard...(one of my shotcommings) but I have been told that the H2 and the LR's share the same exact electronics in so far as their traction control systems. It has been my experience that the traction control system is not bullet-proof perfect: you can kinda over-shoot the "detection window" if you get on the gas too hard: The TC system works by sensing slippage. If you have the RPM's fairly constant the system can easily detect slippage...BUT, if you are gassing it...you present two dynamics to the computer: that of rapidly changing rpm's AND tire-spin. The system bugs-out and goes dysfunctional. By keeping a nice and smooth constant throttle and not reeling-out the rpm's with a heavy foot...I have solidly found the traction control system to work so well that you almost can't feel the lost-traction wheel spin. To elaborate. When the TC detects slippage it will display on our read-out "Traction Active". I've gone up loose hills and kept the gas peddle perfectly steady. My display will read an active system doing it's thing...yet I can't hear, feel or sense any slippage at all. Proof of our systems working well. "OUR" as in LR & GM both. At the same time I have noticed an inclination of most people to get on the gas more so when they start to feel a slow-down in progress or lack of traction. With the rpm's flyin' and the tire slipping.....the system just can't quite put it together...and the tire spins. Alec, who is an exceptional driver, had a freaky circumstance: his front right tire was pitched just perfectly against that rock. When he got a bit stuck you could see some forward progress as he spun...and so he kept on it. Unbeknownst to him...the front left was spinning in the air: when the traction control finally "saw/detected" the slippage...it applied braking and shot the torque into the front-right wheel...which was perched perfectly against that rock in such a manner that made it sharply deflect inward: POP WENT THE TIE-ROD. What have we learned from this?? Don't post your F*@K-up video's on the internet!!!  | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 91 Registered: 03-2003 |
Amazing how easy that thing broke. Sorry about it, but my Defender underpinnings woulda never broke like that. They'd bend and tweak a bit MAYBE, but not "pop" and no steering like it was made of plastic. | ||
| Steve (Steve_r) New Member Username: Steve_r Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2003 |
I won't argue with that. They (GM) tried to get by with using existing parts from the good-ole basket of goodies sitting on the shelf. It's a tie-rod from a 3/4-ton pick-up truck. The '04 model has upgraded tie-rods AND there are several aftermarket beef-ups already out. No doubt the tie-rod is the weakest link. I think they almost intentionally left a margin for improvement on that call. | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 180 Registered: 10-2002 |
ETC can get confused, if a driver is confused enough him or herself. Coincidentally, I nearly got myself stuck this evening doing that "damn my tires are spinning better give it some gas" thing. Front tires got into several inches of fine dust, right front spun for just long enough to begin digging a hole, I reflexively pushed on the gas (not knowing what was happening up front), and suddenly BAM! ETC caught the wheel, but too late. I just backed down and tried another line, but I'm ashamed of myself, and a bit worried about the brakes... | ||
| Steve (Steve_r) New Member Username: Steve_r Post Number: 3 Registered: 09-2003 |
Two things...don't be ashamed AND never admit it!!! We find ourselves walking a fine line between building some momentum and yet not spinning the wheels. Hindsight is 20/20...no biggy. I really wish you could have joined us this weekend...it was a great trip! Lots of hills with huge amounts of loose terrain. Check it out: despite repeatedly telling the newbies to go OVER a rock, go AROUND a rock....but never glance off or graze the side of the rock....this one dumb-ass not only hits his front-right and burst the sidewall...but then proceeds to hit his back right and take that one out too!!! Double whammy flats. The situation was only further complicated when he announced that he had entirely left his spare tire at home. We had to bum 2 spares off other rigs. Sheesh!!!! Meanwhile, on another section of trail....things were just not working out for Hummer-width. We had all these H1's getting stuck and slippin' tires, and along comes 2 Jeep Liberty's and a freelander...and they waltz right through it!!!!!! Ya had to have been there! | ||
| Alec Wallis (Alec_w) Member Username: Alec_w Post Number: 47 Registered: 05-2003 |
Taking out two tires on the same rock and not having a spare when off roading! Now that takes a special type of genius. | ||
| Kahbahzahkee (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 570 Registered: 02-2002 |
Liberty? Freelander?  Must've been tough explaining that to your H2 boys. | ||
| Kevin Bridges (Craniac) Member Username: Craniac Post Number: 182 Registered: 02-2003 |
"Two things...don't be ashamed AND never admit it!!! " Are these rules to live by? What constitutes being a "newbie"? | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 182 Registered: 11-2002 |
"Are these rules to live by?" ROTFLMAO | ||
| Steve (Steve_r) New Member Username: Steve_r Post Number: 5 Registered: 09-2003 |
"What constitutes being a newbie"? ROTFLMAO Ron... I openly posted an apology & explanation long before you posted that I wouldn't. You're just completely wrong and too scared to show up in person to sort things out. In the meanwhile, I've received apologies from others for YOUR postings & behavior. Is this the part where you come back some impressive rhetorical remark? | ||
| Kahbahzahkee (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 572 Registered: 02-2002 |
"I've received apologies from others for YOUR postings & behavior" Steve, my money is on you don't even know what Ron looks like. I also know that he didn't say one word to you until you opened your short, fat mouth on the trail after backing up that hill like the jackass you are. Ask me how I know. | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 183 Registered: 11-2002 |
Steve, Don't go away mad, JUST GO AWAY! When was I "too scared to show up in person to sort things out?" Who did you receive apologies from? (I call B.S.)  Who the fuck have you been sending abrasive emails to?(you know who)  Who the fuck Spammed all my business Email accounts? (Here is where you fucked up.)  Mr. Shortcomings, you have no idea of what my skills are on the trail, nor do you have any idea of my personality. Anyone who as been wheeling with me knows my trail etiquette. Why I am the way that I am when a dumbfuck does something stupid. You see you keep thinking I am "that Guy", that's how stupid you are. The truth of the matter is I was on your side up until you exploded like an overfilled septic tank. You remember all that heckling on the radio? I found it rather unprofessional, downright embarrassing and it gave me a headache. I was the guy that said "give him some credit at least he is not at the mall". I was also the guy who yelled at the dumbfuck spotter who directed the yellow disco to do a U-turn down that hill. And to clearly remind you, I told Doug (Trip Leader) right in front of you to continue with the crowd, and I would assume responsibility for the vehicles that wanted to attempt that hill. But you could not wait, could you! With regards to my side of the story, its quite simple. I do not go offroading to prove a point. I do not claim to have the end all be all rig that will ever be created. I don't ever think my rig is better than anything else. I certainly do not pay a hefty membership to Southern California LAND ROVER so I can wheel with H2s. (I learned my lesson, and as a result, I am no longer a member of that organization.) The difference between you and me is simple, I went out there to wheel and see some friends on the trail. You came out to prove a point, nothing more, nothing less. You asked for a competition I offered you one, told you to put your money where your mouth is. In the event you don't remember, you politely replied "No way man, I'm too cheap...you know frugal" So tell me, PLEASE TELL me, What do I have to be afraid of?  B.S. I mean P.S. "I openly posted an apology & explanation long before you posted that I wouldn't." Really? To whom? This is how Stupid you are. You come to an event, piss in my wheaties and openly assume I am the heckler. "It was when I got to the bottom that some jerk (Ron??) heckled me by telling me that I had been lucky and that I had taken the easy way up."  | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 373 Registered: 02-2003 |
Now, now, play nice, kids. I don't know who said what to whom, who emailed who, or who did what at which event, nor do I really care. I do know this, though. Don't waste Dweb bandwith with your personal differences. Sort this out in private, please. This thread is closed. - Axel |
