| Author | Message | ||
     Mike Wilson (Rover8) New Member Username: Rover8 Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2003 |
Guess what happened at LR Charlotte yestarday, its a good thing nobody was hurt. -Follow link for full story- http://www.freelanderliving.com/bb_board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1305 | ||
| Jeff (Priest) New Member Username: Priest Post Number: 25 Registered: 08-2003 |
HAHA!! YES Thats so funny You just have to love it. Well there you go.. dont leave the pavement unless you have a LR. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1981 Registered: 02-2002 |
I thought there were stict rules about trained professionals in Rovers only driving the "test track" If this story is true, then LR Charlotte made out with a sale of a vehicle; thanks to Porsche that is  | ||
| Max Thomason (Lrmax) Senior Member Username: Lrmax Post Number: 256 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well Damn, I used to work @ LR Charlotte and that is pretty freaky. LR Charlotte is very strict on who gets to drive "the test course", and they wouldn't let me drive my 109 on it. BTW, it is about a 100ft of paved rock (i.e. very flat but and out of rock) and very tippy. I'm glad he didn't roll the other way, the other way is where the RRs are. I would suspect he would have taken out 3 or 4 RRs. And if it was in the morning, he would have taken out a few BMWs, since the "landing site" sounds like the place where BMWs line up their vehicles to get worked on. Serves Porsche right. They put their freakin' dealership right in front of the LR dealership so you can't see LR from the main road anymore. Wow, I want to see more Porsches roll. Max T. | ||
| Dan Ratcliffe (Dan_ratcliffe) New Member Username: Dan_ratcliffe Post Number: 26 Registered: 07-2003 |
Thanks Mike! It got a great giggle out of the folks here at the office. Dan | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 725 Registered: 05-2002 |
"Wow, I want to see more Porsches roll." For reasons that are obvious, this statement is problematic...or just plain warped. | ||
| Karl C. (Eurocarnut) New Member Username: Eurocarnut Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2003 |
Being that I have owned Discos and an 89 RR and currently own a Cayenne S, I will say that the Cayenne can do about 85%-90% of what the Discos can do off-road. However, the Disco can only do about 60% of what the Cayenne can do on-road. Therefore, I think they are both great. Boy, how's that for riding the fence. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1983 Registered: 02-2002 |
So, are you insuating that it doesn't take a half hour to reach 60mph in your Cayenne? I love that commercial with the dude driving the Winebago and he see that Cayenne coming onto his road. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 726 Registered: 05-2002 |
60% is being quite generous. | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 198 Registered: 04-2003 |
Damn near had the same thing happen at Land Rover Glendale near me in Milwaukee. I was dropping my D1 off for some work after hours, and went over their course without a hitch. My girlfriend drives a Jeep Liberty and I thought it might be fun to drive her over the course in the Liberty. Needless to say, the rollover angle isn't quite the same. We got REALLY tippy in that Liberty, far past the "pucker point" and I am sure we were closer to rolling than I like to think... There but for the grace of God go I... Question (to steal from another thread): Was the Liberty Jeep Trail-Ready Approved? Andy | ||
| Aaron Owens (Aaronowens) New Member Username: Aaronowens Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wow. I've been on that sidehill at the Charlotte dealer in a Disco and it does feel very wierd. Also heard them say other brands of suv's and trucks have gotten "stuck" on the sidehill and have to be winched back off. Glad no one got hurt. Interesting that the Porche tips over and the LR doesn't. Seems like that would imply the LR has better cornering ability on road with a lower COG. | ||
| Karl C. (Eurocarnut) New Member Username: Eurocarnut Post Number: 14 Registered: 02-2003 |
I think a lot of the problem with Porsche salespeople trying to sell Cayennes is that most of them have never been off-roading themselves, so they have no idea what line to take on an off road course, or how to navigate a LR dealership trail. The off road course at the LR dealership in Dallas (Frisco actually) can easily be negotiated by a Cayenne, IF THE CAYENNE DRIVER KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING. A Porsche saleperson trying to power the Cayenne up through it like it were a 911 Turbo on the race track just won't cut it. Therefore, I am stating that, in my opinion, it was the inability of the Porsche salesperson, and not the inability of the vehicle, that caused the roll-over. Once again, just my opinion. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 544 Registered: 04-2003 |
Therefore, I am stating that, in my opinion, it was the inability of the Porsche salesperson, and not the inability of the vehicle, that caused the roll-over. Once again, just my opinion. so, was it the salesman who rolled over & fell down the hill, or was it the truck? | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 479 Registered: 02-2002 |
That guy had no business on the course is what it comes down to. That he rolled a Cayenne instead of a Touareg or Liberty is beside the point. The course is designed - carefully - for stock Land Rover products and modified infrequently to safely accommodate the full line. I'd love to know if the salesman even broke out the owner manual for the Cayenne to check the breakover, sideslope, approach, departure angles and wading depth - if it even puts those tolerances in writing like LR does. e | ||
| Pedro (Discoverys) Member Username: Discoverys Post Number: 61 Registered: 08-2003 |
That is a great add for LR. Do you have pictures??? Later | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 178 Registered: 10-2002 |
Porsche's Web site shows various specs, including those for offroad performance, but there's nothing about sideslope angle. See http://www2.us.porsche.com/english/usa/cayenne/cayenneturbo/technicalspecificati ons/default.htm | ||
| Doug Campbell (Dougc) New Member Username: Dougc Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2002 |
Blue--I think you can safely say the saleman rolled over and fell down the hill...in the truck. However, your point is well taken--the Cayenne is designed to handle the less challenging parts of four wheeling. In fact, I have never really looked at the Cayenne, so, I checked out the Porsche site. I'm not sure if Porsche is trying to sell this car as an off-road vehicle--the closest the "test drive" came was to go over a berm and (maybe) hit some grass/dirt. | ||
| Karl C. (Eurocarnut) New Member Username: Eurocarnut Post Number: 15 Registered: 02-2003 |
It is absolutely being sold as an off-road vehicle. Not only does it have low range, but it's also got CDL. As a matter of fact, if you get the off road technology package, you can get locking fronts and a sway bar disconnect. That's something that some of the Jeep Wranger guys do on their vehicles. Their goal was to match Range Rover off-road and Porsche 911 on road. I went to the Porsche Cayenne Experience, and some of the stuff they threw out at us was strictly RR/Disco/Jeep Wrangler territory, and the Cayenne with low gear engaged was as good as any of the previously mentioned vehicles. That doesn't mean that I won't be going to the dealer to look at the G4 Disco when they come out. Might be nice to keep one down at the ranch for fun. | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 179 Registered: 10-2002 |
Maybe it's time to post this still - from one of the videos on Porsche's site - again.  | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 727 Registered: 05-2002 |
Karl, "As a matter of fact, if you get the off road technology package, you can get locking fronts and a sway bar disconnect. That's something that some of the Jeep Wranger guys do on their vehicles." Locking fronts and swaybar disconnects are things that enthusiasts of any make do and have done for a long time. It is nice that the Cayenne has this, but it is far from unique. Further, the Cayenne is an insult to Porsche. I am sure that they will sell a lot of these things to non-Porsche owners, and they will likely even increase thier market share. However, most any Porsche owner or mechanic I know is not real crazy about hanging the reputation of thier crest on this rig. I have never driven one, but I have the video and been on thei list for quite some time. Initially I was pretty excited about the project. The video is moderately impressive, but it makes me wonder why they would try to combine a true sports car with an SUV. It is kinda like having a tux you can play basketball in. The two just don't fit. -Curtis | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 448 Registered: 01-2003 |
True Curtis, but if building the Cayenne helps keep Porsche in business to produce more enthusist cars, has it not served its purpose? Having owned a 914, a car that most true Porsche purests hated, I didn't like the Cayenne at first. But as with the 914 it will help bring new customers in and exposed people to the brand name. I see a crap load of cayenne's running around slc, probably more than I see new 911's. So now I don't have as a big a problem with it. One could make the same arguement about the Freelander too. | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 206 Registered: 04-2003 |
Andy, I agree with you, so long as the product designed to "bring 'em into the fold" measures up to the marque. IMHO, Freelander does this; Cayenne does this; the 05 Discovery doesn't appear to do this. What good is bringing people in if they'll settle for and then demand inferior products? | ||
| Karl C. (Eurocarnut) New Member Username: Eurocarnut Post Number: 16 Registered: 02-2003 |
Curtis, Porsche made this vehicle so that instead of people like me parking my S-Class and Jeep Wrangler in the garage next to my 911, I can park just 1 vehicle next to it that's also made by the same company. If I am loyal to the company that made my sports car, it would make sense that if I need a family vehicle, and they now make one, that I would stay within the family and buy their SUV instead of some GM or Ford product. Oh, it's also helping the bottom line of the company that's about to introduce the Carrera GT, which would not happen if you don't have profitable products. Being a regular member of several Porsche forums, it seems the traditional 911 owners (of which I consider myself) are coming around more and more to the Cayenne once they see it in person and drive it. I too was very skeptical about it when it first came out. I went to the intro party here in Dallas, but it was not until the next day when I went to drive it that I realized I had to have one. I was all ready to replace the Mercedes and Jeep with a MB G-Class until I drove the Cayenne. It might not be as quick as my 911, but for overal driving experience, it's pretty close. "Locking fronts and swaybar disconnects are things that enthusiasts of any make do and have done for a long time. It is nice that the Cayenne has this, but it is far from unique." I realize that lots of enthusiasts do this to their vehicles, but what is unique is that this is something that's offered as a factory option. It's not like taking the Jeep to the local 4x4 shop to get disconnects put in. Just check the disconnect box on the Porsche order form and you have it from the factory with a 50k mile warranty attached. And if you see me out playing basketball in my tux, come join me for a game of horse. Karl | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 181 Registered: 10-2002 |
I don't care what Porsche does to expand their product line, since it does support development of their core sports cars. If the Cayenne subsidizes production of the Boxster Coupe, for example (see http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?n=178&sid=178&article=6346), I'm all for it. This is supposing, and I think not unrealistically, that Porsche quality and performance continues all across their range. | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 449 Registered: 01-2003 |
The biggest issue with the 05 disco is we don't have the final product yet. I know, I know we have seen pics and lots of good speculation, but I want to see the finished deal first. I do agree it looks like its going away from the formula of what land rover set out for the discovery line, but what if its sales allow for the defender to return to the US market? Or what about the rumored baby Range Rover without IFS and IRS and has an offroad mission. Sometimes change can be good, sometimes change allows you to get where you want to be. I understand this all to well as my wife goes back to graduate school . We had to lower our standard of living and I had to put discovery mods on hold, it's not what we prefer, but in the end it will allow us an improvement in our lifestyles. After she's out I either find a defender or build up my d1 as a trail/expedition rig and buy a 06 discovery (the year she's out of school) Rover and Porsche both have money issues right now, if the 05 Discovery can give capital for other enthusist projects, why should we complain? | ||
| Robert M. Godshall (Robert_godshall) New Member Username: Robert_godshall Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2003 |
Well put Andy. Granted the 05 Disco looks (as far as anyone knows) as ugly as a fat chick in spandex but if it help bring the defender back to US shores im all for it. Same goes for the Porsche, if the Cayenne can bring a sports car that kicks ass to the US (Hopeully its that 911 GT supercar) let them sell the new disco and Cayenne, it dosen't matter because its for the good of the automotive enthusiasts. This concludes my current statement Bob | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 207 Registered: 04-2003 |
This is assuming two things, one of which I assume: (1) That the 05 Discovery will suck in our terms (ease of modification, "simple" design, out-of-box off-roading), but sell like hotcakes to increase capital for "other enthusiast projects," and (2) That Land Rover will actually take that next step and develop "other enthusiast projects," which given Ford's overwhelming conservatism in design and "change" is bloody unlikely. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. (Another) Andy | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 559 Registered: 04-2003 |
I saw an Imax flick a couple weeks ago called "Speed" or something like that. They had a long segment on the Cayenne and lots of footage of the main developer burnin it up offroad (graded dirt roads). I'm sure the thing would be a blast to tear up the dirt roads with (and highway), but I'll stick with my D1 for the bigger "off-road" stuff. They also had the actual car on display in the Imax lobby - it looks good from the front (just like a 996 TT), but from the A-pillar rearward it looks like a Hyundai Santa Fe...that's what clay models in a wind tunnel does for you. | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 481 Registered: 02-2002 |
Here's what I think - I think Cayenne should be squarely marketed like the Audi Quattro of the nineties. It is certainly a formidable rally car, where AWD (not 4wd) and gear ratio induced speed are integrated into one perfect package. Here, no Land Rover product would dare go. The problem is, Porsche does not market Cayenne as a rally car, instead putting it on slick-rock in a proving / marketing video, and now the salespeople think they've got a modified TJ with 450 HP. No wonder the eager beaver took it for a spin on a forty degree slope. Seems like Porsche just needs to align its marketing to what the car would truly excel at doing. Plenty of Porsche owners are already falling in-line. I'd certainly be more enthused about their product watching it do 90 mph up Pike's Peak. Before I got into Rovers, I was into full-floating desert sport trucks. They are incredibly fast, capable off-road equipment - but I would never go rock crawling in one. Porsche is jumping very late into a market that's already contracting with a product they're pushing as an off-road sports car - because you so often need to do 160 mph down a graded-road. More often than not, multipurpose means doing many things not very well. e | ||
| Karl C. (Eurocarnut) New Member Username: Eurocarnut Post Number: 17 Registered: 02-2003 |
Speaking of cars like the Cayenne helping fund future sports cars, it looks like the new disco could help get the Defender back into the US sooner than expected. This is from this weeks' Autoweek Strategic Buyers Guide: "LAND ROVER Land Rover North America landrover.com >> Discovery HIGHLIGHTS: Manual locking differential, DVD available, newly styled “Aero” roof rails, G4 trim edition. BASE PRICE: $34,995 WHAT’S NEXT: A redesigned Discovery, with third row and independent rear suspension, is due to debut in fall ’04. IN OUR OPINION: Save your money for the redesign. >> Freelander HIGHLIGHTS: Updates include a freshened front and rear end that resemble those of its stablemates and a G4 trim edition. BASE PRICE: $25,999 (est.) WHAT’S NEXT: Car-based Freelander comes in ’06. IN OUR OPINION: Land Rover wants too much money for too little in return. Like the Disco, wait for the redo. >> Range Rover HIGHLIGHTS: New exterior and interior colors. BASE PRICE: $72,250 WHAT’S NEXT: Range Rover Sport comes in ’05 based on the redone Disco. Standard Range Rovers get Jaguar V8 as replacement for current engine in 2005. Supercharged version may be in the works. IN OUR OPINION: Great on- and off-road, while styling and interior is second to none among sport/utes. DOWN THE ROAD: Look for the famed Defender nameplate to reappear on these shores come ’06." It looks like Autoweek thinks the Defender will be back by '06. They are usually fairly reliable in their predictions. Has anyone heard anything about it? | ||
| David Morin (Sporin) Member Username: Sporin Post Number: 55 Registered: 02-2003 |
I brought this topic over the the Vortex Car lounge and a local guy went to investigate. It happened, but was GREATLY exaggerated. The Porsche did not roll over, it just hit a wooden fence post. Pictures on page 2 of the topic. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1038877&page=1 | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 724 Registered: 08-2002 |
Well, if that is true... what a joke. Still the salesman's incompetance, but from the first story (multiple rolls, through a retaining fence...). Gosh, people are dumb. |
