| Author | Message | ||
     Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 431 Registered: 04-2002 |
My friend's 99d2 just blew what sounds like a u-joint from the t-case side on the front. He's stuck on the side of the road (I-75 north exit 92 macon ga-if you own a roll back!)awaiting a tow. If the u-joint failed (the drive shaft it still attached to the front axle) is this an easy fix? Poor soul just quit his job Friday and does not start his new one for a couple of weeks. I'd hate for him to be lubed by the dealer over a $20 part. Anything to special needed? I think the seal went as well b/c fluid has spilled. Any help is appreciated. I have a d1 work shop manual, would the repair be similar? Thanks all | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 583 Registered: 04-2003 |
Depending on how fast he was going, how long he traveled with that free shaft, etc, he may have damaged the front shaft & also some surrounding components. Anything leaking? If he got lucky and just blew the ujoint, he may get away with just replacing the joint. At least he'll have plenty of time over the next couple weeks to work on his Disco! | ||
| Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 432 Registered: 04-2002 |
The tow truck just arrived. The tow truck guy stated that it was the u-joint and that the prop shaft housing is gone. When he makes it back to atlanta i'm going to meet them to check it out. It would be easier to tow it home if the fix is simple instead of the dealer. Are the prop shafts the same for a d2 as a d1? Hopefully things are not f'd. Thanks Blue. | ||
| Michael Noe (Noee) Senior Member Username: Noee Post Number: 750 Registered: 03-2002 |
D2 front driveshaft is a POS. Right idea, something happened on the way to implementation. Go here: http://www.4xshaft.com/ | ||
| Alex Cabrera (Alexcabrera) Member Username: Alexcabrera Post Number: 146 Registered: 12-2002 |
I'm outside Atlanta,GA (Snellville) if you guys need help. Hopefully there isn't too much damage. You said leaking fluid? I've replaced the rear-output bearing on my transfer case and it wasn't too bad. Can't imagine the front being any different. D2 does not have the CDL? If it does then you can drop the front driveshaft and drive around with the rear-only. Provided the t-case is intact. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 365 Registered: 02-2003 |
What was the color of the spilled fluid? Like Blue said, depending on how fast your friend was going, and how long that broken shaft was trashing around, you may be looking at some expensive repairs. From the sound of it, he will need a new shaft for starters. Hopefully he didn't take out anything vital in the process, but take a real good look at everything under there, including the transmission and all the surrounding lines. - Axel | ||
| Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 433 Registered: 04-2002 |
Sorry for not replying. Thanks for the wisdom. I met them at the dealership late lastnight. The u-joint at the tcase in the front failed. The tcase appears to be okay. I think that when the ujoint failed, it caused the tcase seal to fail. Lots of tcase fluid was present (red). The drive shaft was pretty banged up. I don't think that it can be reused. The holes on the coupling will not allow the fitting of a new ujoint or circlips. We're awaiting a call from lrover for the diagnosis. At least the tow truck driver cut him a deal. I'm considering having my ujoints checked and/or replaced. It scared my friend to death. He was in a construction zone, speeding, cars in front and behind, and passing a big rig when it blew. The big rig backed off to allow him access to the emergency lane so he got it stopped quickly. Cross your fingers! | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 719 Registered: 08-2002 |
Tcase holds 90w gear oil and is not red. Red is transmission fluid and under these circumstances is definitely not a good sign. Since it is now at a dealer I will not attempt a guess at the problem. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Unless the front shaft is nearly free or covered under warranty, please don't have your friend put a stock one back on, just get a better one from GBR. | ||
| Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 434 Registered: 04-2002 |
Just got off the phone. $4400 is the verdict. They told him that it took a big chunk out of the transmission. I told him that I'd get a second opinion. It still looks bad though. | ||
| Alex Cabrera (Alexcabrera) Member Username: Alexcabrera Post Number: 147 Registered: 12-2002 |
I figured... red fluid = tranmission. $4400 is steep.. half probably parts. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 722 Registered: 08-2002 |
Yep, I have heard that the DS can spin around taking chunks from everything it hits. The red fluid was a sign and it was not good to happen at highway speeds. It does not sound like a suprising number from the dealer. Atlantic British has the ZF complete for $3400, but likely you can find a better deal although it might be used. | ||
| Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 435 Registered: 04-2002 |
True. It's all about the second opionin/estimate! I think it could definitely be cheaper. At least he did it right last night. He ended up at Tattle Tails until 4am. | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 128 Registered: 02-2003 |
been there, done that, no need for a second opinion. The red is atf and your friend needs a new transmission...the front shaft on the DII is a sealed double cardon joint. The problem is that is lives right next to one of the cats and the heat from the that cooks the grease out of them. Mine went after about 20k, and it was just in the dealer for service. Also, mine took out boths cats, and the transfer case. The total was about $8900 all covered under warranty. Now that my trucks out of warranty, I have a custom built front shaft made with Spice parts and is fully servicable...DII guys, watch for vibes, the only way to check the shaft is to remove it and check for play in the DC... Frank | ||
| Alan Bates (Alanb) Senior Member Username: Alanb Post Number: 317 Registered: 07-2002 |
I am sure LRNA knows about this problem with D2's, are they going to do anything about it? Your friend may want to contact LRNA and NHTSA to file a complaint. I keep hearing about people on here having these ujoint problems taking out tcases, transmissions, etc. This should not happen and could have caused a terrible accident. I want to know why they put does crappy ujoints in the D2, maybe some bean counter thought it might save them 2 cents. | ||
| Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 436 Registered: 04-2002 |
He's going to get a different estimate for the job. A vibe developed that would begin at around 32mph under load. We checked as much as we could. He took it to a British repair shop that specializes in LR. Of course it didn't do it when the guy test drove it. As soon as we left it did it. We turned around and went back. Nothing. Then, it happens. I think he has a bad idler? pulley as well. It had started chirping about a month ago. | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 131 Registered: 02-2003 |
He really needs to contact LRNA and complain, it's a common problem... Frank | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 584 Registered: 04-2003 |
Take pics for your records, and post them here too. There are pics of at least one additional D2 front dshaft failure and busted transmission floating around... At least your friend didn't lose control, take out other cars, catch fire, etc. Your friend &/or his legal counsel should bring this fact up with the dealer, and simply ask what the hell LR is going to do about it. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1999 Registered: 02-2002 |
Mine failed at 44K. However, I noticed a high level of vibration and experienced a 'chirping' type noise. So under warranty, the dealer replaced the input / output T-case seal, the transmission output seal, and the entire driveshaft assy. Getting HD stuff from GBR is on the "to do" list. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 372 Registered: 02-2003 |
When could you hear the chirping, while the car were idling, or only when moving? Your friend may have a bad pulley as well, but it's more likely that the chirping came from the ujoint getting ready to go. When mine went, I had vibes and chirping for a while, then one day when my wife dropped me off at the train station, the joint went as she was pulling away. Luckily it was at low speed, so there were no additional damage. This was on a 97 D1, stock shaft and OME lift. Moral of the story, if you don't have servicable ujoints (D2), get a custom shaft with Spicer joints from GBR or some other reputable source. If you have a D1 and a lift don't feel too safe either. Make sure the joints are greased regularly, and get a double cardan shaft sooner rather than later. The $400 or so for a GBR shaft can save you big bucks down the line. - Axel | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2001 Registered: 02-2002 |
Axel, The 'chirping' was noticeable at intermittant speeds; never while idling. For example; accelerating from a red light or onto freeway traffic, turning corners, and driving out of my driveway in the morning. The chirping came first, then on the way home from Maryland the vibration began. I remember reading Frank's story on this BBS, so I took the Pig in as soon as I got home. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 857 Registered: 02-2002 |
KVT at some point was considering making a cage for the front shaft. Is this still a possibility? | ||
| Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Senior Member Username: Gregdavis Post Number: 1025 Registered: 08-2002 |
For the record, you can get the serviceable joints from GBR and reuse your stock shaft. I installed mine this weekend. Jack, I'd certainly tell your friend to contact LRNA and complain. They know it's a problem and might be willing to help defray the costs. | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 557 Registered: 08-2002 |
Oh great.....I've got the vibration, and MAR is three days and 600 miles away....Does GBR stock the serviceable joints? How hard is it to do this job? Special tools? | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 591 Registered: 04-2003 |
Rans, if you can't get the parts/work done in time, you can always drop the front shaft, lock the center diff, and cruise the highways in RWD. Pop the front shaft back in for MAR, and drop it out again for the ride home. Come to think of it, you can just leave the front shaft at home...this is MAR we're talking about afterall. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 487 Registered: 04-2001 |
The best way to do it is to call GBR and do an exchange if Bill has any in stock. Outside of REALLY good driveline shops no one can do U-joints in a DII shaft properly. People have tried and failed, frequently, ask Bill Your trans is probably not completely screwed. A new pan is usually all they need. Driveshafts, like MAFs, should be considered consumable on DIIs, as soon as you seen any play or any bits of rust near the caps get a new one, don't chance it. Ron PS most good dealers keep a stock shaft on the shelf if you cannot wait for a GBR exchange. Consider the life of the last one and it might be an option. PPS Blue, yes it is MAR, but this year it is MAR after isabel. | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2003 |
Rans, check and make sure if the shaft causing the vibration (pull the shaft, lock it up and see if it's still there). You could have a tire out of balance...if it is the shaft, I may be able to have the guys who built mine help u out, it's about $350, turn it around in one day...email me off group... Frank | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 558 Registered: 08-2002 |
After I posted my concern, on the way home from work I called Bill at GBR and ordered a set of servicable U-joints to be overnighted. I should have them today. I also plan to stop by my tire place on the way home today and have the tires re-balanced to see if that makes a difference before installing the U-joints. If it does, then I will likely wait til after MAR to replace them. The only question remains where to get them done. | ||
| Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Senior Member Username: Gregdavis Post Number: 1026 Registered: 08-2002 |
Rans, beware. Changing those joints is a bear!!! I spent about 4 hours on it this past weekend, and finally gave up. Took it to a local driveline shop and had them finsih it. Took them all of about 20 min! | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 133 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Guys, are you just changing the u-joints at the t-case and the front axle? When my drive shaft self destructed the double cardon was the issue, both end of the drive shaft was still attached...that's why I had a custom drive shaft made. Frank | ||
| Wes Legaspi (Wes) Member Username: Wes Post Number: 177 Registered: 02-2002 |
Greg, what was the difference with you doing it and the driveline shop? It looks like I will need to replace my front u-joint as I've developed the chirping noise (still need to crawl under the disco to verify). Any special tools needed? thanks | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1121 Registered: 02-2002 |
Local driveline shop did mine too and rebuilt the DC joint (still not greasable, but at least back to new spec) - it was worth the $45 for me! I had them install greasable Spicer u-joints (end lubed). Bill | ||
| Greg (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1397 Registered: 04-2002 |
Frank, I don't follow what you are saying? I can't get under the truck right now to look, but what do you mean you did differently than just pop on two new U-Joints? I think the issue on the D2 is just the one U-Joint without a grease nipple, right? I haven't had any new noise or problems with mine. I have 29k miles, and about 25k since I installed a lift and new tires. I can't tell that it vibrates any more or less than it did the day I put on the lift and tires, but I just attributed that to the tires. They make lots of noise and vibes. I don't have any chirping noises though. Just curious, as I still have 20k left on warranty and figured I'm better off riding out my warranty before changing anything. | ||
| John Roche (Jroc) Member Username: Jroc Post Number: 174 Registered: 08-2002 |
Hey Rans, I was thinking the same thing as Blue about dropping the front, locking the diff, and driving in Rear wheel drive. Also, Bill of GBR is going to be at MAR, as GBR is one of the sponsors. Maybe save a boatload in shipping by picking up at MAR??? As far as swapping out there I don't know, sounds difficult. There will be plenty of cool people there willing to help out though, that's the beauty of MAR. It's not the most technical experience one can hope for, but it is a terrific way to meet other landrover enthusiast, and people whom we've spoken with through Dweb and other such sites. Some people just don't understand the appeal of these sort of events, and insist on making fun of them. It's funny but from what I recall Landrover built there reputation in Africa, anyone ever go rockcrawing in Africa??? Please share your experience. Rans, looking forward to meeting you and if I can help at all, I'm in. John... | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2009 Registered: 02-2002 |
GBR at the MAR? Damn, I need to find him and get a set of those U-joints. | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2003 |
Anybody have a picture of the greasable nipples? Blue, perhaps? | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 594 Registered: 04-2003 |
I have a D1, but here is the D1's zirc fitting on the u-joint - don't know if D2 is any different: http://www.discoweb.org/rotoconversion/11finished.JPG | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 560 Registered: 08-2002 |
Bill from GBR will NOT be at MAR. When I spoke to him yesterday he indicated that he is sending some prizes but will not be there. Thanks John, look forward to meeting you and all the others!! | ||
| Aaron Owens (Aaronowens) New Member Username: Aaronowens Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2002 |
I used a couple c-clamps and sockets to change out the u-joints. I don't think you want to be spending your time at MAR doing u-joints though. Especially when the tiny roller bearings inside that DC joint decide to fall out on the ground! Aaron | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 135 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Greg...seems it depends on what fails first. My driveshaft was still attached by both u-joints, the double cardon failed on mine thats what took out the transmission.. The shop i had mine made at put a spicer greaseable dc joint in and greasable u-joints... Frank |
