| Author | Message | ||
     Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 450 Registered: 01-2003 |
This past weekend a few of my buddies went wheeling and one ended up rolling his Jeep. I was suppose to go, but a work commitment forced me to work this weekend, so I didn't actually see the roll over. The guy I knew that invited me was right behind the jeep when it rolled and related the events to me. Here's what happened, and fortunity no one was hurt, a TJ with 3" of lift and 32x11.5 bfg at's was travelling up the trail. The trail dipped down on the passenger side of the jeep, it wasn't to steep. I know the area he was talking about and it's not an area that you would think anyone would have trouble on, or even roll something one it. Anyway as you drive this part your pass. side is maybe a foot lower than your driver side, then there is a rock, maybe a foot high and about 10 inches long. Well he must have been driving to fast, because he hit it, and put the jeep on two wheels and drove on the trail a bit then put it over on it's side. Like I said everyone was fine, but the jeep was messed up good. They limped it out but in the roll over it lost lots of ATF and made it to the canyon mouth and died. Anyway, my question stems from the vehicle being on two wheels. I know why it happened, driving to fast and hitting the rock, but when it did my buddy said it seemed like it took forever for it to roll, he said it stayed on two wheels for maybe 20 feet before going over. What I want to know is, what would you do in that situation? I realized one may not be able to react fast enough to prevent the roll over, but what if you could? What should be done? Speed up? Brake? Throw your body weight against the roll in the drivers seat? Steer into the hill(up hill)? Steer against the hill(down hill)? Crap your pants? We debated it here in the office, I said steer against the hill and speed up, but no one could agree on a solution. In the end, he may have never had time to have done anything to prevent the roll. But I think he learned a lession on the value of speed control on a trail. If anyone is curious it was the MaryEllen Gulch trail in American Fork Canyon south of SLC here in Utah. | ||
| mark gomez (Mark) New Member Username: Mark Post Number: 20 Registered: 05-2003 |
I would say steer into the direction you are rolling and give it some gas (if you have traction device like a locker)- Mark | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 79 Registered: 07-2003 |
I would think to steer into the side rolling. If the rig is tipping to the right, steer to the right. | ||
| Mike Hippert (Mikeh) New Member Username: Mikeh Post Number: 21 Registered: 04-2003 |
It really depends on the situation at hand, but most of the time you want to turn down hill. For example when you are on the highway and you turn a corner the weight of the vehicle pushes to go straight forward resisting the tires tiring to turn the vehicle around the corner due to centripetal force. If you turn uphill the centripetal force is going to push down hill, which is the direction of the roll, so you want to turn downhill thus using centripetal force to your advantage. Also keep in mind if you turn uphill you are also going to raise the front driver side tire higher. | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 484 Registered: 02-2002 |
I'd venture that if the passenger side were airborne, you'd steer hard left - shifting the COG back toward the passenger side? Wouldn't want to overcompensate tho. I think that it is like sideslope, you avoid steering uphill if you feel yourself going - think of the passenger side as the uphill side in your friend's situation. Just my gut guessing there! e | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 451 Registered: 01-2003 |
I think the jeep in question had the factory LSD and the rear dana 44, but I could be wrong. The passenger side was the side on the ground when all was said and done. Up hill would have been to turn left and down hill to the right. My instinct would have told me turn downhill and give a little gas, but after people argued that logic with me I started to question it, glad to see other people agree with me. | ||
| John Kruger (Johnnyk) Member Username: Johnnyk Post Number: 240 Registered: 02-2002 |
Go slower.... | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 215 Registered: 04-2003 |
Amen. Reading this, I thought of the thread about the Cayenne that rolled on the Rover dealership's test track. What is the saying? "A slowly as possible, and only as fast as necessary"? | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 858 Registered: 02-2002 |
If you can't work out which way to turn, then you probably shouldn't be wheeling.... But it's not usually that clear is it? You might be reluctant to turn into a head-on with a tree, which might nevertheless be the best option. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 733 Registered: 05-2002 |
Andy - where were they? | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 452 Registered: 01-2003 |
For the record I said turn down hill and give a little gas. Co-workers argued with me that I was wrong. Instinct probably would have told me to turn down hill, so I doubt I would end up listening to my co-workers. I just thought it might make an interesting disscussion on dweb. I agree, and so did the driver, he was going to fast. He is an unexperienced wheeler and got a hard lession. To be exact going downhill would have put him into trees, those probably would have stopped him but if they had not he could have gone down a nasty steep canyon wall for about 200-300 verticle feet. I think even steering down hill on that would have been the best choice. How about adding to this discussion ... If you decided to steer it out you would go off trail and down a 60 degree slope that is 1000 feet long, or you could have a soft roll over, which would you choose? I know, life and wheeling don't always work like that, but I'm stuck at work and bored. And since all I do is work on these stupid deadlines, all I can do is cyberwheel right now  Hell I'd take a soft roll over if it ment I wasn't stuck here working. | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 453 Registered: 01-2003 |
Curtis- I'll send you some mail. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 860 Registered: 02-2002 |
Andy, You're right there, there isn't going to be any thinking involved, only your reactions. Even when you do have time to think, if you're about to roll over the panic can set in and rob you of any wits. In my case (and my wits are pretty sparse even at the best of times!) when I was reversing down a flat slope in Wurtsboro once and almost tipping over, it was not at all clear then what to do other than wave frantically to get some heavies to come jump on the bumper. But it might be sensible to add that if there was a 1000 foot 60 degree slope next to you, most people wouldn't be driving too fast LOL! (Darwin in action I guess) | ||
| mark gomez (Mark) New Member Username: Mark Post Number: 21 Registered: 05-2003 |
Given the choice of a soft roll, 200-300ft drop, or 1000ft 60 degree slope, I think I would choose the bypass or (gulp!) turn around but, it really depends on whats at the bottom of the 60 slope though. I just know my ABS will kick in resulting in the "all ahead full" type of braking and thats bad with big trees or rocks in the way. I think I'll disable the ABS before the next trail ride because it does'nt work well on the road or off the road. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 863 Registered: 02-2002 |
Does it really depend whats at the bottom of a 1000ft 60 degree slope? Unless its like a marsh mallow factory or something  | ||
| mark gomez (Mark) New Member Username: Mark Post Number: 22 Registered: 05-2003 |
Really, I don't want any of the above options especially the 200-300 ft drop. 60 degree is one steep slope but toss in a new defender at the bottom for me and I'll get down there one way or another | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 864 Registered: 02-2002 |
By 60 degrees I thought you meant 60 from horizontal no? | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1083 Registered: 09-2002 |
or 60 percent? 60 deg slope could only be a rock wall. I don't know of any soil that could stay put at this slope. | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 454 Registered: 01-2003 |
Yes, 60 deg from the horizontal. The trail they were on does that, when it gets up to a mine, or the end of trail, it turns into a nice exposed shelf road. The miners that built that road in the 1800's sure where a hardy bunch. Good thing was the mine was for marshmallows, and there is marshmallow mine tailings at the bottom of the slope, nice soft landing ... My buddy said the insurence company totaled the jeep, apparently the transmittion was gone and the engine lost oil too, so it was on the way out. The hood, pass. side fenders and windshield frame were hosed. Also something in the steering assy was mess up pretty bad, I guess a 98 tj isn't worth all those repairs. Sucks for that guy. I always wondered what would happen if I screwed up my rover bad offroad, what would Mr. insurance man would say about it. | ||
| chuck yarbrough (Cptyarderho) New Member Username: Cptyarderho Post Number: 21 Registered: 06-2003 |
What is the saying? "A slowly as possible, and only as fast as necessary"? that says it all. Do not get yourself IN that situation if not necessary... | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 455 Registered: 01-2003 |
Sorry 60 percent , your right 60 deg is to steep. I don't know, think of a double black diamond ski slope and that's it. Lots of loose scree and a distinct shelf to drive on. Even 60 % could be wrong, I think if you were going down it you would have a very hard time keeping the rear of the truck behind you. The bottom is boulders and trees, scrubs, then a creek way down. If you could control your decent enough, you might be able to steer around the big rocks, I doubt your truck would drive out on its own. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 865 Registered: 02-2002 |
Well the D2s have HDC don't forget...... | ||
| Steve (Steve_r) On Probation Username: Steve_r Post Number: 8 Registered: 09-2003 |
Just thought I'd add something here..... It seems that many roll-overs occur in situations where drivers least expected it. How many times have you heard "...and it rolled over in this area where you wouldn't believe it!". It's one thing when a rock-crawler get aggressive and does something nutty...but lots of roll-overs seem to happen abruptly and where least expected. It also seems that many times the corrective manuever puts the vehicle into even greater harms way: cliff, extreme conditions, rocks, etc in the corrective path. I also concur...rumor has it you should steer into the direction of the roll and add a bit of gas too....makes sense. As I see it...there's no obstacle worth risking your life/health/rig over. | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 485 Registered: 02-2002 |
I recently took a bad line at Uwharrie and got very, very tippy as the driver's front came way up while my rear passenger side fell into a twister of a pit. In this case, I backed down a bit to level out and took a better line. I had a good spotter with me, and quickly returned to all fours thanks to his quick assessment of the situation. The culprit was a deep hole in an otherwise disarmingly easy "moderate-rated" trail. It pays to go as slow as possible and as fast as it takes to get there, but you can still get caught off-guard sometimes. e |
