| Author | Message | ||
     Chris Dillard IM lvmyrvr (Cdillard) New Member Username: Cdillard Post Number: 23 Registered: 03-2002 |
Well, I guess that I will start out a thread to cover the weekend at MAR. LIKES 1)Nice Camping options 2)Lots of Nice Trucks 3)Great Bluegrass band at dinner on Saturday 4)Very helpful rally control staff 5)Nice and challenging trails 6) Great weather DISLIKES 1)Trail GRIDLOCK 2)People who cannot follow trail directions even with arrows and signs leading the way 3)Trail Gridlock 4)Dog owners who do not own/carry a leash! All in all the weekend was nice. | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 84 Registered: 07-2003 |
1) Just because a person ownes a winch, lockers, and big mud tires, does not mean he/she knows what they are doing, or how to use there stuff. 2)Duel TT's and ETC does not work any better than ETC by it's self. 3) And I had no idea how many people disliked John Lee. Man John, what have you done to these people? | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 107 Registered: 09-2002 |
What I want to know is who has shots of the H2 stuck in the first real obstacle on the West Powerline Trail? (The same pit that had the undulations on the left or the deep mud on the right that the kid with the 3 mo old DII smashed his bumper and fender on) I have to say I had a blast, I wanted to meet more dwebbers but it was damn crowded around there! There were some great trucks out there, it was really cool to see that ECR 110 with the doormobile conversion, and of course the Wolf was pretty cool. I will also say that I am now a believer in the Detroit Locker rear/True-trac front combo after watching some Disco's go up some of the hill climbs like it was cake (right after we got done winching up a series who stopped, stalled, and drained his battery trying to winch the rest of the way) It was a great weekend, although watching that dog get hit reiterates Chris's bad point #4. Amazingly my truck is now running better than it has since I bought it-I guess all she needed was a good beating (and probably to have an owner change the fuel filter!) | ||
| David Marchand (Dmarchand) Member Username: Dmarchand Post Number: 215 Registered: 09-2002 |
I'd like to know why one of the "trail marshall's" had the need to not just pack some heat, but to have two spare clips on his belt? Was he going to need to mow down a crowd of 30? I'm all for the right, but that's ridiculous. Too many trucks at that event. We spent more time winching stock rigs out of advanced trails, than we did actually wheeling. What don't people understand about "advanced trail with likely damage and winch use"? It's clearly stated. | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 85 Registered: 07-2003 |
Ray, it was good to see someone who really knew how to use a winch. Good thing you came around when that series truck died. I came across a D2 owner who said his winch was dead, I took a quick look and it was still in free spool. Or the guy who did not know what low range was... Or the guy who had a 10,000 stereo and no tow strap... And how you get four trucks stuck in one mud hole is beyond me... But the best one of all is when a D1 was trying to pull a D90 up a hill with his winch with out straping his truck to a tree, and seeing him slide down the hill into a tree and maching his door in. I guess when you get 300+ trucks together, there is going to be some really stupid stuff going on. And if anyone got a good pic of that LR 130, I would love to have a copy of it for my scrap book. | ||
| Tommy Dougherty (Skydiver) Member Username: Skydiver Post Number: 151 Registered: 03-2002 |
Where did a dog get hit?? We were out on Sat in the log bridge area, and a brown dog was running around loose. A few folks in the group stopped and tried to round him up, but I think they were unsuccessful. | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 108 Registered: 09-2002 |
David-I wonder if that was the tool blasting off rounds Sat night... We were at the bottom of Andretti's hill helping (really at that point I was watching) a DI's radiator get filled up with stream water so he could probably limp back to camp when all of the sudden shots starting ringing out. While I have no doubt whomever it was is more than competent with their firearms there is a time and a place... Will-I don't know that I'm really that good with my winch, I noticed when I pulled out a lot of the wire rope that there was a flattened spot, but no broken strands or anything, so after that pull we just left the truck in place (anchored from the rear to a tree) and used the EE brackets and shackles I had on my ARB as an anchor. I have to say those things were stout! (as expected) and I am glad I put them on. The good news part of all of this was we pulled the cable off the winch on Sunday and now the wife is a proponent of getting a synthetic line so it will work out for the best for me. I'll check my cameras, I might have taken a shot of that 130 as it wasn't far from our tent and I kept wandering by it staring. What I didn't get any shots of was that ex-MOD 90 w/the 200 TDI in it, that was a pretty sweet rig. I hope they take some of the proceeds and convince the owner to cut some more trails or something, if it keeps growing there going to have to stagger groups for trails and stuff. | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 109 Registered: 09-2002 |
Tommy- The dog incident I was talking about was right up by the Rover's North tent (or maybe a little closer to that Orange FC 101) and it happened Sat late afternoon I think-we had come in and were hanging out waiting for dinner. They ended up taking it into Fork Union to the vet but we never heard what happened. That area was just too crowded, I'm suprised a person didn't get hit. | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 86 Registered: 07-2003 |
I was not there, but from what I understand a 109's rear tire ran over the dog. As of Sat night the dog was ok with no broken bones. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2538 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ray, You mean, you were camped over next to us, and I didn't meet you?? LOL!!! I was in the "D150" that the 130 was parked next to (ie, the in-law's camper that the wife insisted that we kid-nap to use for the weekend). Will, What kind of pic do you want of the 130? I can dig around and find pics of the build-up, of it parked here, there, wherever.... I left my dogs at home, and was glad that I did. Not because I didn't want them there, but because too many people let their dogs run loose, and so they'd come by and start dogfights with dogs that were on leashes. Grrr..... People just needed to be more considerate of others and leash their dogs, and it would've been fine.... -L | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2539 Registered: 02-2002 |
 -L | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 111 Registered: 09-2002 |
Leslie, That is a shame, we were yards apart. I was right up the hill from you. We had three green discos in a row parked on the draw side of that clearing. We were right beside an immaculate 97 D90 that never left the clearing and right in front of a brand-new Disco II with that cool blue paint that still had the dealer stickers in the window. I must have looked over that 130 three or four times, trying to convince the wife that it would be the ultimate family vehicle. You weren't camping in one of the "Conquerors" were you? Those were pretty sweet. r- Ray | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2321 Registered: 10-2001 |
yeh i think next year there needs to be a social hour where there is more of a meet and greet. maybe some square dancing or cow chip tossing to help loosing folks up!!  was just too busy watching others fixing trucks, sleeping, unpacking, on the trails, etc to be socializing. wanted to spend some time talking to others. i mean i can only take so much of the regular dweb group. haha. | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 145 Registered: 02-2003 |
I'll add to some of this...When we came across the D1 stuck on the log bridge friday night to see a tree strap 10' up a tree trying to lift a rig was really stupid...got him out, but the right way, no damage... Will C. I have to agree and disagree. I agree about having everything and not knowing how to use it. (see above)I disagree about the lockers, if you lose your ABS, you lose your TC...and you will lose your ABS at some point... I TOTALLY agree with David, way too many trucks in places, we also spent a lot of time getting stock trucks out of places thay shouldn't have been. Ray, I was pouring the water in the radiator and remember that, what a moron... I still had a good time... frank | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2541 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ray, By chance, remember seeing a fellow moseying around, wearing a Tilley hat, with a little blonde toddler (who, if I might say so myself, is as adorable as a little girl could be)? No I didn't have one of those really cool trailers, I was in the ugly late-70's motor-home right beside the D130... I tell ya, I'd like to have one of those cool trailers, instead of having to drive that motor-home again.... it's kinda scary at speed.... -L | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 87 Registered: 07-2003 |
Those trailers were BADASS. I saw those guys come in on Thursday evening. One guy said they were from Africa and started around 5000.00. Weather that is true or not I don't know. | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 379 Registered: 08-2002 |
Speaking of trailers, did you all get the chance to check out the safari trailer up on the hill? I took a quick peek at it mid-day Friday and overheard the $30K price tag! Some people with dogs were ok such as Randy and Paul. Others, well, are just plain morons. When we first arrived, someone let their dog out and it immediately ran over a did a number one on my tire and my backpack. Owner saw the whole thing and instead of an apology, just laughed. The dog's name was Rover but so were half the dogs there. Ray - I made it up the hill climb without winching and without lockers. As Paul would and has said "Jesus Loves Momentum". Andretti's hill was a whole different story though. LOL. Disclaimer, the copyright for that phrase belongs to Paul Morgan ;-). I agree about people not being able, or disregarding trail signs. I was in the middle of a moderate climb, soupy and fully committed when a Rangie came tearing around the corner, descending quickly towards me. Luckily nobody was hurt but in my attempt to avoid a serious accident, got my wheels spinning on some sharp rocks and tore some nice chunks out of my brand new BFG MT's. Ohh well, like I said, nobody was hurt. If the conversation about John Lee was the one I was privy to, someone also mentioned that he is not as abrasive in person as he seems on the boards. You can't really judge someone's character from board posts entirely. Most of you guys thought I was decent until you met me IRL. LOL. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2023 Registered: 02-2002 |
I want to thank the nice folks at ROAV and all the volunteers that made this event possible. Planning and organizing such a large event, and then having a Hurricane stop by to add even more duties deserves honorable mention. Thank You, Paul Morgan | ||
| Chris Gregg (Tofergregg) New Member Username: Tofergregg Post Number: 29 Registered: 05-2003 |
This was my first LR get-together, and I had a blast. I was with the Namibian D109 with the Howling Moon tent on top. Unfortuntely (for me), it was my friend's LR and he and his pregnant wife got to sleep in the cool tent (I was on the ground). She was quite a trooper, climbing up and down from the tent and going on a mildly difficult trail ride (don't tell her doctor!). Thanks to everyone for the fun! -Chris | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 563 Registered: 08-2002 |
I can't begin to say what a great time I had at MAR. Was with an incredible group of people in the shanty town on the hill. We did some incredible wheeling, wanted and needed to do more, and next year we will for sure! Only two rude idiots from Vermont with their snide comments predicting our group of 8 Discos and D90s would never make it thru the swamp that they turned around at (we ALL made it thru without incident or even winching) was a downer. The real buzzkill was having to go back to work this morning. Glad to hear all my friends made it home safe, looking forward to next year already!! I also want to echo Pauls comments commending the ROAV staff and everyone that volunteered at MAR for their efforts!! You guys and gals rule!!! | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 112 Registered: 09-2002 |
Frank (Mongo)- I was the short guy who came over after the DI radiator event to your campsite and hung out with Mike, the guy I came with. (and my wife eventually came and searched us out) Our time with ya'll was both entertaining and enlightening to say the least! Leslie-yes, I recognize the gentlemen you are talking about, especially with the toddler as you sparked concern about the welfare of our 2 year old all weekend-luckily we had cell reception so we called the grandparents (who were wrapped around her finger to say the least) Next year we may bring her as I think she'd have fun. Will-the trailers were made in South Africa, I got the full brief from the guy who sells them, and it only made me more impressed with them. They cost $10k for either model (the smaller one was designed by the guy who brought them and after it was all said and done cost as much as the big one that was already in production) and you can get RV financing for it, all told I think it would be worthwhile if you really go camping a lot and want that kind of comfort. Going back to work hurt, in fact, it still hurts and its Tues now. | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2003 |
>>I'd like to know why one of the "trail marshall's" had the need to not just pack some heat, but to have two spare clips on his belt? That's the rig I always carry when I work. I took on the job of ensuring the safety and security of 500+ people at the request of ROAV Board and the property owner. Some tool's dog using a 4 year old for a chew toy or a rabid racoon will make you glad I know how to use 13+ years of Federal Law Enforcement. I wasn't there to oppress, and typically carried concealed to avoid reactions like yours, but had ruined my jacket on the recovery just before your comment to me on the trail. If you have training or knowledge for doing event security, please get involved next year as we could use all the help we can get. I think several people were saved from getting Darwin awards this year by the volunteer staff. The "gunfire" heard was in fact, fireworks on the East Meadow. | ||
| David Marchand (Dmarchand) Member Username: Dmarchand Post Number: 217 Registered: 09-2002 |
I can appreciate ROAV looking out for everyone's safety. I would recommend in the future you either remain concealed, or remain in the rally HQ unless called upon. Their is absolutely no need for you to be present in a muddy vehicle recovery carrying anything more than a leatherman on your belt. Having a weapon present such as that, even if it's on the belt of someone with "13+ years" of experience, changes the tone of the event and situation entirely. I know I was not the only one there who felt that way. You need to see it from a participant point of view. Regardless of whether you have "trail marshall" stamped on your rig. It isn't appropriate to me. The handle of my hi lift or the stalk of my mag light would work just as well in either situation you describe. Their is a time and place. Additionally, I didn't make the comment in person. That fellow was with me (who did) and I share his sentiments. Which is why I brought it up. | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2003 |
Your opinion(s) will be taken into account when planning next year's events- I hope you'll volunteer some of your time to help others as well- and bring your hi-lift handle and mag-light. I find those items a little unwieldy for all-day carry myself. I seriously doubt the Sheriff who stopped in and spent a little time at MAR would have removed his sidearm though- and it's surprising that anyone would want that. Next year we are hoping to have one of the Deputies on site both Friday and Saturday evening. Yes, some people are leary of law enforcement and I'm used to it. I agree with you that concealed is the way to go, but it wasn't an option at that point because my jacket was soaked by leaking coke bottle on the floor of my truck thanks to my 5 year old. I was doing my job carrying tools for the other Trail Marshals working with me andmaking sure the guys doing the recovery had anything they needed. I'm not going to hide in a tent or in my truck because someone might see I'm carrying. I wish half the people who sent me supportive emails would post in public, but I suppose as much as people love attacking others about pretty much anything here- they want to avoid it. | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 287 Registered: 04-2003 |
For those who have fought for it; Freedom has a taste the protected will never know. | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 262 Registered: 01-2003 |
I think MAR was great again this year. Since the event is growing so much every year, I think it might be helpful to have more information on the signs to the trails (like difficulty level). There were an awful lot of trucks that weren't prepared for the difficulty level of the trail. Yes, they should have looked at the map and seen it was too hard, but they didn't. That being said, that's the only thing I can think of to improve MAR. What a well thought out event. Well organized, well run. I truly appreciate all of the hard work that went in to making it such a fabulous event. THANK YOU to everyone who helped! ...and I hope we kept Fluffy Puppy at bay enough... we couldn't leave her at home! | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 629 Registered: 04-2003 |
I would recommend in the future you either remain concealed, or remain in the rally HQ unless called upon. Their is absolutely no need for you to be present in a muddy vehicle recovery carrying anything more than a leatherman on your belt. Having a weapon present such as that, even if it's on the belt of someone with "13+ years" of experience, changes the tone of the event and situation entirely. I know I was not the only one there who felt that way. You need to see it from a participant point of view. Regardless of whether you have "trail marshall" stamped on your rig. It isn't appropriate to me. The handle of my hi lift or the stalk of my mag light would work just as well in either situation you describe. Their is a time and place. I would recommend in the future you remember your place and keep your mouth shut. Your inclusion of the phrase "It isn't appropriate to me." in your rant above tells us everything we need to know about you... | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 779 Registered: 05-2002 |
S.C. - I was not at MAR, but thanks for being there armed to protect the people I know who were there. It always amazes me how some people freak out at the sight of a weapon even in the right hands. They rarely stop to think about all of the possibilities that might happen when you get 500 people together with 4X4's and pets. Tempers can flare and pets can get out of hand. Few understand that a decent sidearm is not an offensive weapon. It is defensive. In the proper hands it is a deterrent altogether. -Curtis | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2029 Registered: 02-2002 |
I am one of "those people" who emailed Mr. Young offline about how this is America and not Canada. I think it's another great sign that ROAV and the property owners were thinking ahead about safety. | ||
| David Marchand (Dmarchand) Member Username: Dmarchand Post Number: 218 Registered: 09-2002 |
Thanks S.C. Young. I appreciate your willingness to understand my opinion on it, and did not want the individual whom made the original comment, nor my comments to be out of place to you or ROAV. Again, it shows that you and the organizers have a far greater level of understanding in running such a large event, which has already been stated and commended. | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2003 |
Alyssa- Great point about marking the trails, I'll make sure that as all the volunteers "debrief" that we address that issue. We've got a year to figure out how to do it. I ran the trails the sunday prior to MAR and it's a great thing that it dried out as much as it did. If it had rained one more day, the stock vehicles would have been out of luck. Seems a lot of people didn't refer to the trail map and ratings info, they just saw an orange flag and went for it. I'll do what I can to change that next year. I was thinking of marking all trails one way for Friday, then running them all the opposite way Saturday. The same trail run the opposite way you're used to is just as fun as a new trail (IMHO). | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1140 Registered: 02-2002 |
MAR is held on private property and the ROAV organizers and property owners can do whatever they feel necessary to maintain the organization of the event, up to an including the presence of visibly armed security or law enforcement personnel. If the sight of a sidearm carried by someone who knows how and when to use it frightens you, or for that matter, even at all......then perhaps the USA is not the place for you. Bill | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 401 Registered: 02-2003 |
I wasn't at MAR, so this is a general observation. In my opinion, both Mr. Young and Mr. Marchand has a valid point. If I was a law enforcement officer, and I was doing security at an event such as MAR, I would carry my regular sidearm, too. On the other hand, if I was at the event as a regular participant and all of a sudden some guy I don't know shows up armed, I might feel uneasy about it. Why? Is it because of the weapon? Yes, and no. I see armed Police officers every day when I go to work, but yet it does not make feel worried. Why? Because they are clearly identified as law enforcement, and I expect them to be trained and armed. I think that may have been the problem here, had people known that Mr. Young was an officer of the law, I don't think we would even be discussing this. Perhaps next time around, it might be an idea for Mr. Young to consider wearing something that clearly identifies him as a law enforcement official, such as a badge or a uniform shirt. This would accomplish a few things; 1. People won't be uneasy about the sidearm, and 2. Mr Young will be clearly identified as someone of authority, instead of being "just a trail marshal". This all being said, I appload Mr. Young for volunteering his time at the event, and I support his decision to wear his sidearm. Having been involved with running a few large events in the past myself, there have been occasions where I wished I was wearing a sidearm, too.... - Axel | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 263 Registered: 01-2003 |
I do agree with Axel. If someone is in uniform, a firearm isn't upsetting. Someone out of uniform with a firearm makes me very nervous. Several marshalls were wearing yellow vests. Perhaps any official security agent for MAR should wear the yellow vest with something designating their position. That said, it's the US, and if ROAV wants armed security at MAR, so be it. It's the most professionally run rover event I've ever attended, and they certainly have the right to do what they need to do to keep everyone safe. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 631 Registered: 04-2003 |
Have to agree & disagree there, Axel. Sure, some yahoo walking around the woods with a 38 special stuffed in his waistband may be suspect, but Marchand had no problem ID'ing Young as someone in a position of authority. Seems like Marchand's issue is with guns, ammo, and the people who carry them - they're obviously all bloodthirsty killers, and if the people aren't killers the gun can still jump up and do it on it's own. LOL. I repeat what I said before - remember your place, you're a guest, no one held a gun to your head and made you show up on someone's private property to enjoy yourself. I'd like to know why one of the "trail marshall's" had the need to not just pack some heat, but to have two spare clips on his belt? Was he going to need to mow down a crowd of 30? | ||
| David Marchand (Dmarchand) Member Username: Dmarchand Post Number: 220 Registered: 09-2002 |
Axel, you hit the nail on the head. Thanks. | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2003 |
Just so you guys know- I was not there representing the Govt, I was only there in civilian capacity and as the safety coordinator for ROAV. I won't sport a badge when nt representing the agency from which the badge originated. Some type of "official" looking attire that would put people at ease is a decent enough idea. All citizens have the power of arrest to an extent and I'm not trying to make people think that I was there to do anything more than protect the participants primarily from injuries, but also the unexpected stuff that happens- animals, irrational drunks etc. I spent most of my time treating people with bee stings... but that's the way it should be and there were no major injuries all weekend. | ||
| Greg (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1431 Registered: 04-2002 |
Well, I didn't make it up either, but in support of Mr. Young carrying a side arm, I'd be interested to know how many of the 300+ vehicles and people were carrying weapons to MAR? I'll bet there were more than just Mr. Young's weapon there, which is reason enough for armed security to be present in my mind. | ||
| David Marchand (Dmarchand) Member Username: Dmarchand Post Number: 221 Registered: 09-2002 |
Axel hit the nail on the head. Thanks. Blue, what can I say. Your so right... Too bad you neither know me nor where I stand. The fact is, I made an observation here(sarcastic one at that). Mr. Young identified himself (and his experience), I stated my thoughts on the matter, he accepted, invited my assistance, etc, and I thanked him for it. If you want to read anything else into that or attempt to insight a flame, feel free. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 402 Registered: 02-2003 |
There is authority, and then there is authority. Trail marshals are just that, volunteers from all kinds of backgrounds. There is usually no formal training requirement to be a volunteer, so a yellow vest really says nothing about the persons professional background. I don't have an issue with the organizers decision to have armed security. I also realize that it is legal to carry guns in VA, and I don't have an issue with that, either. All I am saying is that it probably would be to everyones benefit if the armed security are clearly identified. Let's take a hypothetical example. Say a bunch of Yahoos at the edge of the field has too much to drink and start making trouble. Let's assume they are armed, too. Then Mr. Young goes over to break it up. Who will be most efficient, Mr. Young the trail marshal in a yellow vest, or Mr. Young the Law enforcent official with a uniform shirt and a badge? I'd be willing to bet that the shirt alone would defuse the situation a lot faster than the sidearm would. Of course Mr. Young is at the event to have fun and relax too, just as everyone else, and I can understand why he would not want to be in uniform all the time. Law enforcement uniforms make some people uneasy, too. So yeah, this is a dilemma. Maybe just a badge would be less conspicous. - Axel | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 403 Registered: 02-2003 |
"Just so you guys know- I was not there representing the Govt, I was only there in civilian capacity and as the safety coordinator for ROAV. I won't sport a badge when nt representing the agency from which the badge originated. Some type of "official" looking attire that would put people at ease is a decent enough idea." Fair enough, I figured you were there as a volunteer representing ROAV, not in any official law enforcement capacity. It is also understandable why you would not want to wear your badge, there may be strict rules for when it can be worn for all I know. It's a sticky situation though, it's one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't situations. - Axel | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 113 Registered: 09-2002 |
I have to come in with Axel on this one, in discussing this whole controversy with a counterpart I work with everyday who is an Federal Law Enforcement member (1811 )I think the badge would be a good thing, as it is common to place it right beside the firearm thus linking one to the other. That being said I would rather wear a polo shirt or something that carries the badge on it rather than scratch up, or worse, lose my shield while helping someone on a trail at night. Its a shame this is such a divisive issue, and I retract my tool comment about whomever was firing off rounds sat night as it seems to be unintentionaly attributed itself to Mr Young-although I would assert that I have a more than passing familiarity with firearms and the report was loud enough that if it were just firecrackers than it was not only illegal in the state of Va it probably was about as smart to have around as unleashed dogs. Therefore whomever was conduct low-level demo in a crowded area on a dry hay field is the tool. I say welcome Mr Young to Dweb and I wish I had met him at MAR, and thank you for your service to the country-in what appears from your profile to be our Diplomatic Protective Services and I think your assertion to not "officially represent" your agency has significant merit and I didn't even consider that until you mentioned it. In any case, for next years MAR, now that I have one under my belt, I think I will try to volunteer and I think Alyssa's idea about signs about each trail is a good one and probably wouldn't be to hard to implement. r- Ray | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 385 Registered: 08-2002 |
The big question is... who was the tool capping off rounds Saturday night? After that happened, I was a bit uneasy as well. | ||
| Luke Tolson (Luke4696) Member Username: Luke4696 Post Number: 226 Registered: 06-2003 |
I think they mentioned it earlier, something about fireworks, not shots. Not sure though... -Luke | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks for being a friendlier bunch than I anticipated when I registered... I've known people to get "thrown to the lions" on this board before. I heard/saw some fireworks of the illegal variety on the meadow... I went over there and didn't see anything though. It's possible someone was popping off rounds on a separate incident. That would have been a quick way to be escorted out of the property. I wish I got to relax and run some trails, or even eat... I was working the whole time and only got to take my 5 year old thru the RTV course once and ran behind my Disco when my girlfriend took it on Lake Loop- first time she ever did a climb off-road and the CDL wasn't engaging. She did great though. I'm thinking leash rules or at least voice command of any off-lead dogs for next year. Poor Otis got ran over while playing- Both my beagles had a crush on Otis... | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 386 Registered: 08-2002 |
Oh, fireworks. I forgot they are legal and obtainable in VA. | ||
| Tommy Dougherty (Skydiver) Member Username: Skydiver Post Number: 152 Registered: 03-2002 |
I agree with the part about marking the difficulty levels of the trails better. Just spraypaint the signs different colors and it's a no brainer, vs having them all orange and having everyone refer back to their map to check difficulty. (For the record, I had my map with me and checked the map before venturing off in my truck.) Also, I heard that a defender drove off the causeway bridge on Friday eve. (I heard chatter about it on my FRS). Did anyone get photos? -Tommy | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 407 Registered: 02-2003 |
"I wish I got to relax and run some trails, or even eat... I was working the whole time and only got to take my 5 year old thru the RTV course once....." I hear you there. The Second (and final from the looks of it) RoverFest at Killington was the last straw for me. You work your butt off on your spare time, and no matter how hard you try, some people find something to complain about. There are never enough volunteers either, so the ones that do volunteer never get any time to enjoy the event. These days I tend to avoid large events alltogether, and just go out with a smaller group of friends. Less BS to deal with that way. - Axel | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 264 Registered: 01-2003 |
Maybe a leash rule for all dogs at campsites and especially near the main tent. Voice command for dogs on trails (or on-lead for dogs that aren't trained). Maybe there could be a leash rule for toddlers, too. :-) (Of course, just kidding, but there were a LOT of not-very-well-watched toddlers about). Quite a few stray children at the event this year with no parents anywhere in sight. | ||
| chuck yarbrough (Cptyarderho) New Member Username: Cptyarderho Post Number: 24 Registered: 06-2003 |
Word was the dog is okay. My wife (who works for the SPCA) saw it, helped with the animal and got word on Sunday the dog was okay. I think it may have belonged to one of the guys from 4x4connection. As to the gun, Axels said it best, but please, enough of the love it or leave America crap. He made an OBSERVATION. They both made good points, but some get their 'tudes a bit bent... As a ROAV member and volunteer, glad he was there. Yes to leash rules, that was way out of hand. Kudos to Mike McCraig for helping my buddy Joe get a CV and axle for his D1. ROAV has some of the nicest guys I have wheeled with, and this was my second MAR. Both were great, and I hope to do more and be more involved besides trail prep next year. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 632 Registered: 04-2003 |
God damn, I think it's time for all the sheep to be shorn. I don't need to flame you David, that would be pointless. I will just make observations. Your self-righteous attitude and ignorance is evident in your posts. "pack some heat", "two spare clips on his belt"…LOL. Would one spare magazine have been deemed appropriate by you? No spares? Clips are something you put in your hair, or maybe something you slam into your gun if you're riding on 22" chrome and holding it sideways as you shoot out the window. I suspect that you think the Brady Bill and Clinton Crime Bill had a positive effect on crime reduction? After all, one result of those bills was limiting magazines to only 10 rounds. And "mow down a crowd of 30" is simply priceless. To top it off you then proceed to lecture Mr. Young on how he should handle himself because you personally found his behavior inappropriate. Do you understand the point here? Someone or something should change because of your opinion, as opposed to you understanding your place in the big picture and letting things carry on in a perfectly legal, perfectly appropriate, and perfectly safe manner. At least Mr. Young knows where he stands, and can confidently stand that ground knowing he is fit and proper. | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 234 Registered: 04-2003 |
Blue: Amen!   | ||
| Michael Noe (Noee) Senior Member Username: Noee Post Number: 755 Registered: 03-2002 |
You dog owners that take the dogs on the trails, keep your eyes open. We know of at least one case where some guys actually let a dog out of one of our group's trucks. It was late and no one else was around, but the owner did not give permission and was up the trail helping to pull a truck out. FWIW, I think that loud boom was a noise cannon. You see them used by cheerleaders and such at college football games. THey are extremely dangerous to those around them if they have not been inspected for cracks. When I was in school, we had one go off at a showing of "Polyester" at the amphitheater. Besides being unbelievable loud, it exploded and took one guy's calf off, one guy was literally dead (they brought him back) and it took a huge chunk out of a cedar tree about 100 ft away. It's amazing only two or three people were hurt. While I'm at it....Thanks to ROAV, had more fun this year than last. THanks SC Young and all of you volunteers this year. | ||
| Thomas Dahbura (U352) Member Username: U352 Post Number: 198 Registered: 10-2002 |
here rover. He got your tent and backpack? he got my leg but I love rover the mad pee hound. | ||
| chuck yarbrough (Cptyarderho) New Member Username: Cptyarderho Post Number: 25 Registered: 06-2003 |
Good pics of you Mike, I never did get back to that trail over the big log bridge. Was it any easier than last week, when we pulled the Range Rover out? Wish I could have brought the Jeep along as well this weekend. Anyone get pics of the Defender that went nose in at the causeway, or the winching of the H2 that could not get up the riverbank? Priceless, that was... | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 350 Registered: 11-2002 |
I was not at Mar so maybe I should hold my tongue? me? a couple years ago a 25 year veteran of the county sheriffs department near us in northern Wisconsin in a attemp to dispatch a deer hit by a car sent a round grazing off the pavement and into a bar full of patrons. looking for reasons such as a rabid raccoon or a dog biting a 4 year old as reasons to carry a hand gun to a event seems a little far fetched. I too think Axel hit it on the head, if a uniformed officer is the one with the gun it is a far far cry from a rent a cop/trail marshall toting a weapon. no matter what his day job happens to be. sounds like everybody had fun....kudos to the organizers | ||
| Enoch Snyder (Esnyder) Member Username: Esnyder Post Number: 79 Registered: 10-2002 |
Even though I'm a proud citizen of VA who is glad we have an open carry law, I have a couple of questions: 1.0 Did ROAV organizers ask Mr. Young to provide armed supervision at the event? 2.0 I didn't catch his license plate, and can't get it from his profile, but is Mr. Young from VA? 3.0 Could Mr. Young give us a bit of background about himself? (i.e. are you actually a sheriff of some local county, or a policeman, or something similar?) 4.0 Other than a few drunk teenagers last year, did ROAV organizers feel this year that there were threats to the safety of participants that required this level of supervision/protection? I'm an ROAV member that didn't really know anything about armed guards (just kidding) at the rally, but I also wasn't an organizer, so I can't say a whole lot about that. I think it's great to carry a gun if you want, even if you're doing it to show it off. It is everyone's right, at least in our state, and I do it when I feel I need to. I personally left mine in my tent when I was in it, or in my truck. I didn't really think I needed it on my hip, and didn't feel like having people roll their eyes at me. I think as much as anything people are reacting to how seriously Mr. Young took his job, from contacting law enforcement ahead of time, to driving between tents with flashing yellow lights on his Freelander, to wearing a loaded weapon plus clips on his belt. Mr. Young is also catching a little grief because he had possibly the most tricked out Freelander ever seen, and MAR (and DWeb) is still a tough crowd! Enoch Snyder, just adding a few logs on the fire | ||
| Enoch Snyder (Esnyder) Member Username: Esnyder Post Number: 80 Registered: 10-2002 |
PS- It was a great event as always, the ROAV coordinators do an amazing amount of work to put it on, I got to catch up with more folks from the Rover crowd, the Conqueror tents were indeed BADASS, I found all kinds of used parts for my series truck, the chick with the GWagen got drunk again, and the trails were harder than they said because of the mud. Still by far my favorite event of any I've been to, for any brand vehicle. Enoch | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2322 Registered: 10-2001 |
enoch. should have made it up to the other small meadow behind the lake. some killer grub was on hand. evan and randy were grillin' up venison for dinner and sausage and egg breakfast wraps in the morning. almost made it hard to hit the trails......almost. | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hopefully all the blown out of proportion reaction won't make the ROAV Board shy away from providing security next year- I worked my arse off, had a pretty lousy time overall and now all that anyone will remember is the "controversy" As for my credentials, I don't feel that I need to publish my resume- but I have been a Law Enforcement trainer for the USAF, then a combat pistol and high performance driving instructor for civilian agencies in VA and GA. It was important to provide visibility this year- that's why we had 8 or 9 vehicles marked as trail marshals. Each person in those vehicles was either an EMT or had 10+ years of off-road experience and advanced recovery gear, some had both. The reason I had those lights on mine was so people can find me in the crowds of Rovers. The blue light was used to attempt to clear the way when I responded to medical issues, which we luckily only had a few relatively minor ones. As for the Freelander- I also have a lifted D1, so you can only give me 50% of the regular crap for having a Freelander (which incidentally, is better off-road than my D1). | ||
| J. Michael McCaig (Lrover) New Member Username: Lrover Post Number: 22 Registered: 01-2003 |
These are all good ideas: better signage, leash rule for pets, and trail marshal/security vests. We will take notice of these suggestions when planning next years rally. The event organizers want to keep the MAR a family style event and because it has become the largest Land Rover event in North America we decided that we needed someone solely in charge of security and safety. The MAR is put on entirely by volunteers and we are very fortunate and thankful that we have a member who is a trained law enforcement officer willing to donate his time during the rally. Thanks Steve for a job well done. Mike | ||
| Patrick Oberg (Obie) New Member Username: Obie Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2003 |
 | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 114 Registered: 09-2002 |
That's a sweet picture of the D90, I heard the driver thought the ripples to the side of the causeway indicated it was really shallow water...which I guess is true compared to say, a harbor, but not so much for impromptu wading. Now all we need is some evidence about that H2 getting stuck! BTW, Paul Morgan-sorry I never ran into you but I wanted to pass that my wife thought ya'll were hilarious on Channel 7 Sat afternoon, we were listening while waiting for the RTV to start and cracking up. r- Ray | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2003 |
I've got to move all my pics to the web tonight- I have some of the H2 hopelessly stuck. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 410 Registered: 02-2003 |
Send your pictures to Ho, then he will load it into a MAR gallery here on Dweb. Everyone who have pictures from MAR, please email them to: hochung@discoweb.org - Axel | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 564 Registered: 08-2002 |
We did have some fun on Channel 7 didn't we? Bagpipe music, hohahs, babbling, WTFs, ....oh yeah we had fun!! On the signage issue, I made this suggestion on another forum where a document of suggestions was being put together. I suggested we adopt the skiing slope difficulty signage out on the trails themselves instead of/as well as on the maps indicating green circles for beginners, blue squares for intermediates, and black diamonds for expert trails. (and double black diamonds for trails no one in their right mind should go on, but Paul Morgan will lead you on anyway!) It's a simple method, many people are already familiar with it, and for those that easily get lost or don't bother with maps, it is info on the spot! Fairly easy to do also. Thanks to all the ROAV volunteers and organisers for their time and effort. We had a great time, with great folks in the shantytown in the meadow on the hill above the lake..We CANNOT wait until next year. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2032 Registered: 02-2002 |
Radio...? What radio? That must have been some other guy. Yeah, that's it some other guy...... | ||
| Michael Noe (Noee) Senior Member Username: Noee Post Number: 756 Registered: 03-2002 |
I forgot about that venison. Jeez, that was the best venison I've ever had, I hope I was appreciative that evening. I ate Connie's too. I think I had 4 filets, I know Evan gave me two. | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2003 |
>a couple years ago a 25 year veteran of the county sheriffs department near us in northern Wisconsin in a attemp to dispatch a deer hit by a car sent a round grazing off the pavement and into a bar full of patrons. So what? I guess the point is that it's a good thing that MAR isn't in Wisconsin? The Marines in Iraq are shooting the wrong people about every day... Kids are drowning in bathtubs and doctors are amputating the wrong limbs now and then... what's your point? >>looking for reasons such as a rabid raccoon or a dog biting a 4 year old as reasons to carry a hand gun to a event seems a little far fetched. Can you 100% guarantee those things don't happen? Can you 100% guarantee that when the drunk/disorderly are told to leave that they won't take an axe to your face? You know nothing, it is obvious. The hell with it- next year YOU donate about a grand of your money and four days of your time helping others instead. I don't need this kinda crap, next year I'll just run the trails and the hell with everyone else. It's just like when I do volunteer rescue work and we find some dumbass hiker who got himself lost and wasn't prepared- usually not even a simple thanks after we work to find and extricate him. Screw it all- you win. I quit- Now YOU step up and take a shot at trying to ensure 500+ people's safety. You have no idea what it takes... | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 89 Registered: 07-2003 |
Here we go... | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 293 Registered: 04-2003 |
S.C.Young, I was not at MAR this year, I had to work. But I would have like to known that someone had the intelligent and fortitude to carry a weapon. You sound like a nice enough person and I would be happy if you’re ever in WV and want to go wheeling let me know. I am about 45 minutes from Charleston and an hour from Parkersburg, I can be anywhere in the state (not including the eastern panhandle) in about 2.5 hours tops. Personally I conceal my weapon so that it can’t be seen even without a jacket. But since you were wearing one and it did get wet (via soda if I recall correctly) then unfortunately for you, so people found it in themselves to comment about the why and where and how…..if they had been bright enough to see that you were a Trail Marshal, then they should have been smart enough to keep their mouth shut. I am probably going to get flamed for this, but after 11 years Active Duty and spending time in the gulf and off the coast of Libya, I get sick and tired of hear that we shouldn’t be allowed to carry or you should only carry when…..give me a break. Look and England or Canada….both have all but outlawed guns, look at there violent crime rate. It has all but gone through the roof. No I am not a NRA card caring person, but I do believe that we all have the right to defend ourselves and protect our families, our property and our way of life. I also feel that if the property owners and the Land Rover group wanted armed security, then by GOD they should be allowed to do so, and if you don’t like it you can always move to some mid eastern country were even little kids carry full auto machine pistols in the streets (and they are not even in uniform). S.C. if you decide to work at this again, I will look you up. I am planning on making it next year. I look forward to bringing you something to eat if you do Trail Marshal again. Keep in touch and I will make it happen. More people should be willing to help when asked. When I went through my concealed carry training in WV (my instructor was a 20 Marine, then spent 20 as a Deputy Sheriff) told me and I quote “I will train you under one condition, you will never get out of bed without putting your weapon on”. My response was I don’t understand? He proceeded to inform me that the day that you do not carry or you leave it locked up in the gun safe, is the day that you will need it. I am not training you so that you can be an As* Hole, I am doing it so that you can defend you and your family just in case. So that is what I do....never leave the bedroom without it. END OF STATEMENT..... | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 638 Registered: 04-2003 |
S.C.Young, you forgot to quote the most relevant part: I was not at Mar so maybe I should hold my tongue? LOL...surrounded & outnumbered... | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 565 Registered: 08-2002 |
Were you at MAR Blue? | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 90 Registered: 07-2003 |
I think there should be a target shoot at next years MAR. | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2003 |
He'd better be at it next year- he's been volunteered to take over my job. I'll be watching what he does, and I'll bitch incessantly if he makes even a tiny mistake. Better start buying medical supplies and spare radios now so you'll be ready... I knew leaving my jacket in the truck for 45 minutes would start all this- but I'm not leaving a weapon in a vehicle and then leaving the vehicle out of my sight. I'm also not going to be the stuckee that has to confront people for doing stupid/dangerous/illegal stuff without some assurance that I have the advantage if things go horribly wrong. Joey- I'm taking a group to Canada for some wheelin in June, I'll send you the info. We'll probably do a Paragon trip in November as well. As for WVA, let me know when and where! I'm flying out to CA later this month to go wheelin into Nevada on a ghost town tour with 4wheel-n-offroad magazine editors, but other than that I'm open to anything. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 639 Registered: 04-2003 |
No Rans, and that's just one of the reasons that I'm not telling the MAR coordinators how to do their fucking jobs. Another reason I'm not telling them how to do their jobs is that it's none of my fucking business. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 640 Registered: 04-2003 |
S.C. Young, no thanks on the MAR job, I shy away from big "come one, come all" group events for reasons evident here on this thread. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 782 Registered: 05-2002 |
The mere mention of MAR made me shudder for years. This year it was looking like everybody had a good time and I was considering whether or not I should change my opinion of MAR. It looked like it may have been, dare I say, *fun*. However, after reviewing some of the comments in this thread I think I will leave my opinion on the event as is. Small groups and invitationals are the way to go. | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 387 Registered: 08-2002 |
Curtis - Please come. It wasn't as bad as some people are making it seem. Matter of fact, it wasn't bad at all. I camped and wheeled with good, decent folks and had a good and decent time. I think you can figure out where I am going with this... basically, bad shit happens to bad people and assholes are surrounded by assholes. Sure, we all have bad luck now and again but if you are surrounded by good people, the bad things get taken care of quickly and you don't dwell on it or have your whole weekend ruined for petty shit. Yeah, I bitched about my pack getting pissed on and some obvious bad drivers but except for a total of MAYBE 30 minutes cumulative out of the entire weekend, I had the best time of my life. The traffic jams happened a couple of times but I either detoured or took the opportunity to put it in Park and meet some new people. It's all in how you react and respond. | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 566 Registered: 08-2002 |
I have to agree with Steve, it was a great event. I am not aware of ANYONE in our group of 30 or so that had anything but a great time. One should not confuse some constructive criticism that the organisers have asked for with geneeral bitching and griping, it's not that at all. I don't mean for this to sound harsh, but Curtis, if you think that the large group would curtail your fun, then it probably will. Maybe best to stay with your current plan. Blue, same for you. I'm sure there are smaller invite only trips that would better suit your fun level. Those that don't like armed security, don't come. Those that don't like mud, don't come, those that don't like dogs, don't come and so-on and so-on. If some people had a bad time, maybe they were looking to have a bad time. Those that had fun will find fun in most anything they do. Those that didn't will only become the bitchers and gripers if they return. But then again, some people live to bitch and complain. My point here is that there is something out there for everyone, go find it and enjoy it. MAR does it for me, and I'm sure the group Steve and I were with will have a blast again next year! | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 239 Registered: 04-2003 |
DISCLAIMER: I did not go to MAR. That said, like the local news we're only remembering the "bad things" that are reported. And how bad are they, really? - A guy specifically asked to provide security has (gasp!) a gun? - A dog pees on a pack? - Trails are busy? I'm planning on going to MAR, and am even more excited now that I'm reading about this year's in retrospect...is it always the first weekend of October or do the dates vary? Andy | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 790 Registered: 09-2002 |
From everything I've read, it sounded like everyone had a good time. Just some differences in opinion but those didn't occur until here. Wish we had something like that in Canada. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2035 Registered: 02-2002 |
"...and assholes are surrounded by assholes." Steve did you watch Space Balls last night? | ||
| Robb Sundmaker (Robb) Member Username: Robb Post Number: 86 Registered: 03-2002 |
Nobody in my group had one minute of a bad time. We all had a great time! I cannot believe people are bitching. You only have a right to bitch if you are volunteering and if you are volunteering then you complain behind closed doors. End of story. Let's not make MAR a bad thing when it was a helluva time! Thanks ROAV and volunteers for making MAR 2003 a HUGE success! | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 643 Registered: 04-2003 |
From what I have seen, MAR does look like a fun time. I don't think I'd drive across the continent for it (from AZ), but it looks like a fun time nonetheless. Alan Yim hit it with "Just some differences in opinion but those didn't occur until here. At the very least everyone can agree to disagree...no harm done. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 784 Registered: 05-2002 |
LOL - I guess I am just being spoiled and petty from living out West. I think if I lived out on the Right Coast I would probably make it every year. It really does sound like everyone had a good time. I guess what bugs me is that EVERY year before MAR people are getting hyped up about the event, and then EVERY year at least a few come back here and bitch and moan about some little thing. IMO - the bitching really brings down what would otherwise be a good event. The people who run this event work thier asses off to put it on and facilitate a good time. I know I would not want that job. However, for thier efforts they get a few people who deem it necessary to come out and tell them they are not doing it right. I guess it is just a few bad apples, but it certainly makes a good case for smaller venues. -Curtis | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 411 Registered: 02-2003 |
That doesn't happen just with MAR. You get the bitching at every other club event, too. There is always someone who thinks that because he paid his $20 or $50 or whatever entrance fee, he has paid his dues and therefore all he has to do is show up, and he has a right to bitch about anything not to his liking. I have dealt with it more times than I care to remember back when NYLRC was active and at other events such as the Roverfests, and quite frankly I got tired of the bullshit and moved on. So yeah, I know how S.C. Young (Steve, is it?) and the other organizers feel when people start to bitch. I hope they didn't take my comments earlier in this thread as personal critisism, they certainly weren't meant to be. Maybe I should just have kept my observations to myself, it certainly is none of my business how ROAV run their events. I know they put a lot of time and effort into it, and they all do the best they can, and for what? To get bitched at? That just ain't right... - Axel | ||
| chuck yarbrough (Cptyarderho) New Member Username: Cptyarderho Post Number: 26 Registered: 06-2003 |
Don't believe the hype. The 10 who complain get heard, but the 300+ that had the time of their lives aren't here to comment-- BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL CLEANING THE MUD OUT, AND FIXING STUFF... My 4th Land Rover event, and it was well planned, with great staff, period. Perfect, never, but come on. Thanks Mike, thanks Stu, I will be back ,and I will help out more this year. My WIFE (the prissie one) had a good time, even cleared me to trade the Jeep for a Defender. The event is what you make of it... | ||
| jay caragay (Jcaragay) Member Username: Jcaragay Post Number: 153 Registered: 02-2002 |
Well, I had a great time at MAR. It was my first one and I thought it went off quite well. Sure there were lots of people on the trails and traffic jams were everywhere and some people acted like asses, others spent their time trying to "one up" each other with their recovery expertise but I enjoyed it all. I went down to join some friends, wheeled with my friends and had a good time at it. There was mud, we got stuck, we spent hours recovering vehicles, we were hungry, we were dirty, we were exhausted, we missed whatever activity was going on at Rally Control but we had a good time. I do have to agree with Axel about the badge thing. I had the opportunity on the trail to meet and chat with SC Young. Nice fellow and we had a nice conversation during the time when his jacket must have gotten wet because he was wearing his khaki shirt and sidearm. I noticed the sidearm, thought about asking about it, remembered that he was a Trail Marshal and figured that it wasn't worth the bother. Looked like a Smith and Wesson and I think that's what I really wanted to ask him! Other than the occasional Landy owner with an attitude or the overtly pushy guy selling t-shirts at Rally Control, the only thing that actually irritated me was Land Rover Monthly selling their magazine for $5 each. Maybe I've been attending too many trade shows where publications pass out their current copy gratis but I kind of expected LRM to do similar to bolster sales and encourage subscriptions. I haven't read LRM in quite a long time because when I used to read it I found the articles to be less than interesting and the newsstand price to be considerable which made the whole endeavour not worth the effort. This was a great opportunity for LRM to introduce or re-introduce LR owners to the mag by passing out free copies of this month's issue. Oh well, I'm still not a LRM reader. BTW, I don't understand the notation of the Gwagen girl getting drunk. It seems to me that a large majority of drivers were out on the trails drinking while driving. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be judgemental about that. Private property and people can/should be able to do as they please but is it worth mentioning one over the majority? | ||
| Dan Ratcliffe (Dan_ratcliffe) New Member Username: Dan_ratcliffe Post Number: 31 Registered: 07-2003 |
Damn, all I had was a good time. | ||
| Thomas Dahbura (U352) Member Username: U352 Post Number: 199 Registered: 10-2002 |
I can't help it but a lot of you guys are piss ants!! My truck didn't run but I still had a great time with a lot of FANTASTIC people!! Let me say that again because once isn't enough. I had a great time and met some FANTASTIC people. JEEEEEEEEEEZ | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2003 |
Other than having to confront GWagen girl twice and the snide comment that started the whole "controversey" on the trail, everyone I met at MAR was great. Still some anti-Freelander crap on the radio, but when I had my D110 I used to give the Discos the same crap when they came out. The best part was the HUGE grin on my girlfriends face when she did her first trail behind the wheel. That kinda stuff is priceless- she's hooked and already asking if we can do more mods on the Disco (once the CDL is fixed anyway). The traffic jams and the signage I think are the most important upgrades needed for next year. More than half the people didn't even realize there was a map in the reg package. Note for Jay- no to S&W, it's a stainless Kimber... If you didn't have a good time at MAR, you should probably look deep within for your problem or get medicated. | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 792 Registered: 09-2002 |
SC Young - where abouts in Canada are you going? | ||
| Enoch Snyder (Esnyder) Member Username: Esnyder Post Number: 81 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jay, re: the Gwagen girl, you missed the reference to the mountains of posts she generated last year! Steve, glad you seem to have a better attitude about things (particular us giving you shit on this board!) than came across from just seeing you around the rally. If you carry a sidearm as part of your daily life, then brother, wear it proudly. If you only put it on to show "authority" at the rally, then I guess people might have reason to bitch a little. Like a lot of people, I look forward to the MAR weekend all year long, and this year's event was as good as expected. | ||
| Enoch Snyder (Esnyder) Member Username: Esnyder Post Number: 82 Registered: 10-2002 |
BTW, you got rid of a 110 to get a Freelander????? | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 567 Registered: 08-2002 |
A few things.... The G-wagon Girl situation was as much about last year as this year, and is a touchy subject, proceed at your own risk. The ROAV organisers have asked for constructive criticism. They know there are some areas for improvent and intend to address them....this is why the event gets better and better every year, they are paying attention. Pissy, bitchin complaints are a waste of everyones time except in one way.....they identify the bitchers and complainers for who they are....no wonder they are lonely when there are 500 people around! Last, LRM....well, I didn't see any of the other magazines there, all of which have a much higher subscription price than LRM. None of the other magazines have a North American Edition with articles and stories about people we know, people who were at MAR and other events around the country. For the record the NA editor was there, as was the International Managing Editor and UK editor over from the other side of the pond. I am told they were VERY impressed with the event and said it rivals the largest gatherings in the UK!! But Jay, if you don't want to read LRM or pay $5 for it, thats your right, and imho, your loss. Rock on LRM!! (Big MAR issue coming out in December!!!) And just so you know, the NA editor is on Dweb quite often!! Tom, I'm sorry your truck never got rolling, God knows enough guys had their hands in it, and I think we all learned alot about Series wiring. Mike Widener in particular really gave it his emotional all! Ain't it great having friends like that? I know we were all pulling for you! Next year for sure, right?? | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 388 Registered: 08-2002 |
Paul - I did not catch it. I'm not positive I've ever seen it. Did I plagiarize a line from the movie? Steve - I was hung up in a traffic jam with you, about 2 cars ahead of you when they were winching up from Andretti's Hill on Saturday. I thought it was cool that there was a Freelander out and about. To add to what Randy said about LRM, the fact that they alone are beginning to include the U.S. at all speaks volumes about covering the needs of LR owners over here. True we get opinions and suggestions from fine web sites such as this but its nice having a bit of recognition and representation too. It also helps our U.S. vendors by giving them an additional source of advertisement. Who knows, we may very well see a U.S. only magazine in the future if it is embraced well instead of just an insertion. I bought LRM every once in awhile off the newstand but have asked for the MAR special to be sent to me and will be a real subscriber in the future. | ||
| Jason Bard (Jbard) Senior Member Username: Jbard Post Number: 282 Registered: 10-2002 |
Just to clear my dog's good name, he was NOT the pissing Rover that Steve mentioned. As far as your leg Tom, he was just sharing the love. As far as the LRM comment goes....There's always a cheap bastard looking to get something for nothing. I think the fact that they came over for the event at all speaks VOLUMES! Kudos to all the volunteers. Once again, a great event. | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 115 Registered: 09-2002 |
I couldn't resist trying to post this (first picture attempt), pulled off the ROAV website as they start uploading pics from this year:  For the record, I had a blast and I thought the five LRM's for $10 was a great deal, especially considering some of the posters and extras that came with them-I can't wait to see the coverage of MAR in Dec and I'm thinking a subscription is going to be a x-mas present to myself. I think Mr Young's excellent choice of weapon illustrates the seriousness he takes with firearms and I'm glad he's not as worked up anymore about the way this board can go at times. Although I do have to re-ask: you got rid of a 110 for a freelander? r- Ray | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2003 |
Alan- a bunch of us are going to Ottawa in June for a big LR club bash. All kindsa neat Rovers will be there. I'll find some links to the event and post 'em. The 93 D110 was so problematic that I swore off Land Rovers forever and went through several Jeeps. We had no idea the NAS 110 would gain value- I had my doubts it would ever be made functional for more than a month at a time. The Freelander brought me back to the marque and has impressed me since the day I bought it. The Disco came along shortly afterwards and has been "interesting" bringing all the maintenance up to date... The original owner misrepresented the attention to maintenance (go figure). I figured a Brit vehicle was more appropriate for towing my MG vintage race car though... I'm now looking for a solid 109SW to replace the hole in my heart where the 110 used to live. Freelanders get a rash of crap, but if you haven't owned or even driven one off-road- it's a surprising little machine. It can't rock crawl like a Disco, but in many other cases the Freelander excels and very often outperforms. I don't want to start the whole "which is better" thing because it's pointless, but they each have their strengths. I remember when the Disco was called "the end of Land Rover as we know it" just like people say about the Freelander. The new stuff coming down the pike from LR under Ford is probably the REAL end to LR as we know it. Best bet is to have one of each. I thought LRM's attendance was a very good thing. It would be nice to see some familiar faces and rigs in the magazines- not to mention advertisers on the same continent as us. | ||
| Robb Sundmaker (Robb) Member Username: Robb Post Number: 92 Registered: 03-2002 |
 | ||
| Robb Sundmaker (Robb) Member Username: Robb Post Number: 93 Registered: 03-2002 |
Here is a reflection from MAR  | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 413 Registered: 02-2003 |
"Freelanders get a rash of crap, but if you haven't owned or even driven one off-road- it's a surprising little machine." Yes, they are. I bought my wife one last year, and she loves it. I am not allowed to take it off road or modify it, so it stays stock. But we drove it to California and back this summer, I must say that both mileage and roadhandlingwise, it is lightyears ahead of my Disco. It's a nice truck for what it is, and definately worthy of the green oval. - Axel | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 649 Registered: 04-2003 |
What's the mileage like? I need to pick up a "fuel-efficient" commuter in 2004. My wife didn't like them, but that problem has been solved. Also, do you feed it low, mid, or high octane? Thanks. P.S. nice pic there, Robb | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2039 Registered: 02-2002 |
I have driven two Darbies. One, I tested on a moto cross track. That little car could haul butt around the corners like it was cool. I was having visions of WRC Rally racing at the time Two, I had an HSE as a loaner from LR Mainline in Philly. You have to keep an eye on the speedo, otherwise you will be in line for a speeding ticket. Fast Fast little city car. | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 389 Registered: 08-2002 |
Darbies? Did I miss something? I thought they were being called "Freelies" or "Free Willys". Where did Darby come from? | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 793 Registered: 09-2002 |
Hehe...Darby is the name of the Freelander that a fellow from another board bought, lifted with a DAP lift kit before ever taking it off-road and without knowing what the lift may or may not do to the vehicle and then proceeded to have some things "let go" on it's first off-road trip causing something like $9000 worth of damage. He then posted a website asking for "donations" to the cause. If you do a search for "Darby" on here you'll find the threads discussing all of this. It's an entertaining read. It's never good to see soemthing like that happen to someone but in this case this might have been prevented if the fellow did a bit more thorough research or even tried his vehicle stock to see if he needed the lift. But I think the "donations" thing was what got people riled up more than anything. | ||
| Steve Hoare (Pabrit) New Member Username: Pabrit Post Number: 6 Registered: 05-2003 |
Jay I noticed your previous posting expressing disappointment at not receiving free copies of LRM at MAR. I'm confused by your comment as you already "found the articles to be less than interesting" so why bother to expect a free copy if your not interested anyway? Also, I do not understand your other comment complaining of "newsstand price being considerable". If you had noticed at MAR we were offering a USA subscription (with a free issue) at a rate substantially lower than newstand retail prices. (In fact, the offer is still good until the end of this month). In addition, you may care to know that Land Rovers come from England and unlike other off-road magazines here in the USA, all Land Rover magazines also come from England. The trip across an ocean involves an extra cost. (Something about paying for people to ship stuff, gas etc.). You may care to note that LRM sponsored the MAR event with signage/ Marshall's vests and contributed product to the auction. These items were donated to help run the event and keep the event running costs down. LRM will continue to sponsor events and will continue to help out at events for ALL Land Rover owners. (In fact we already have a note to supply additional vests for MAR Marshalls etc. next year). For the record. LRM is the ONLY Land Rover magazine to have published an North American edition. The response (with your exception) has been fantastic. The LRM UK guys have already made a sizeable investment to make the North American edition a reality and there will be further expansion and improvements based upon feedback, sales etc. Contrary to popular belief magazines are not the "cash cows" that everyone thinks. A lot of unpaid effort goes into the magazine for the love of Land Rovers. This was your first MAR so obviously you have no idea of the hours, days and weeks of planning, volunteer work that goes into such an event. I for one have a great appreciation and respect to anyone that puts on this event and others. May I suggest that in future before you openly crititize that you contribute to making an event a success. My other suggestion is you consider buying a JEEP as the vehicles are cheaper and more plentiful. You will also have a larger selection of magazines all reasonably priced as they are heavily sponsored and filled with advertising. Hey, if you're lucky you may even get a free one. Steve Hoare North American Editor (LRM) | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 461 Registered: 01-2003 |
Well said Steve, you even motivated me to want a subscription, how do I get one? Also I'm glad to see your sponership in MAR, even though I doubt I'll ever drive from UT to go to MAR, but it's nice to see your generious sponcership of an event. Considering how small the numbers of actual LR enthusists (when compared to Jeep, toyota, etc) in this country, its nice to see some coverage and support for that small community. | ||
| John Roche (Jroc) Member Username: Jroc Post Number: 185 Registered: 08-2002 |
If you had noticed at MAR we were offering a USA subscription (with a free issue) at a rate substantially lower than newstand retail prices. (In fact, the offer is still good until the end of this month). Hey Steve, I was at MAR and didn't get a chance to stop by the LRM Booth. Tell me more about this special. For the record: - I was at MAR and thought ROAV did a great job of putting the event on. - Yes there is room for improvement - Love the ski trail sign idea (I was thinking the same thing) Also indicate which way the trail goes and enforce one way only! - For the amount of people there I would've expected more traffic! - I don't remember seeing Mr. Young but he sounds like just the kinda person I would want in charge of safety and security! And I would like to thank him personally, along with anyone else that had anything to do with putting on this fine event! Also Steve Young, if you would be kind enough to let me know when you're planning the trip to PAP I'd be very interested in going. | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 535 Registered: 06-2002 |
Okay...I HAVE to add my .02!! I WAS at MAR...though I missed meeting most of you since I was restricted to the baby trails, (Not only do I read signage, but I understand that stock truck + stock tires + lots of mud = damage to my daily driver!). I must admit that I kicked ass if only on the bunny slope; with some more mods, I could be a GREAT driver off-road. Oops, that's the adrenaline talking. Here are my observations: 1. Too many loose toddlers. I WATCHED a woman chase hers into the only 'street' that was present in front of the main tent. HELLO....it's a BABY!!! HOLD ON TO IT! 2. Too many loose dogs. Some were great. Some were lost. Glad I left my girl at home, easy for us both. 3. Too many stock trucks trying stuff they shouldn't have. I didn't see most of it, but heard plenty. 4. Not enough hours in the day. We signed up to volunteer....originally being assigned the duty of trail marshal, but I nixed that when I saw the conditions. We helped out with the RTV Cane Course and really had a good time. 5. We NEED a DWEB meet-up at some point during the rally. I know so many people by their license plates but not in person. Some people actually sought me out which was great, but there really weren't that many women driving. Much harder for me to distinguish the 15th lifted DI or DII that I saw with a guy driving it from VA or NC or NY!!! I really wanted to meet more of you face to face. 6. Too many snorers! Hahahaha, I had to throw that in. 7. I think the coordinators from ROAV did a fantastic job organizing and running the event. Isabel didn't exactly make life easier and I am really appreciative of their hard work. Makes my heart sing everytime I see that many Rovers in one place and everyone waves! Plus, it's only an hour from home! (Sorry to those who traversed land and sea!) 8. Thanks to ALL the sponsors...from LR Richmond (though I never met anyone from there) Rovers North and Atlantic British to LRM. I think many of us love reading the Rover mags and were glad to have a chance to walk away with an armful at one time. When I travel for business, I search EVERY chain bookstore in the country for LR publications...we bought 4 mags and will get a subscription for Xmas. I'll have pics to add soon enough. Tried to take as many as we could with limited memory card space. Cheers to everyone who made it and even to those who didn't. Can't wait until we all meet up again! | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 266 Registered: 01-2003 |
I believe the deal was $65 US for 1 year subscription + 1 free issue. ...and you should all THANK LRM for finally listening to the US LR owners and making us our own edition. There is A LOT of US content in the new magazine! ...about giving free issues-- LRM is not a not-for-profit! They SELL magazines. That is what they were doing. AT A DISCOUNT! The vendors were there to sell, not to give things away. Good lord people, stop complaining about this incredibly fabulous event. They have FUN trails. Trails that are difficult. Trails that are just plain fun. Trails that are muddy. REALLY muddy. They've got hill climbs, water crossings, steep descents, rocks, trees, GOOD STUFF! It is the one event I have never missed since getting my first Land Rover. It's the one event I use up my precious vacation time for. In my opinion, it is the best Land Rover event I have ever attended, and I wholeheartedly support ROAV and MAR and all the volunteers who donate their time, effort, and money to make the event a reality. MAR is awesome, and if you didn't have fun there, you have something wrong with you! | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 536 Registered: 06-2002 |
Right on Alyssa! Oh, and thanks for your good suggestions about buying the RR...I have passed the information on to my Dad and we shall see where he goes from now. Great meeting you again...I'll be in PA in mid Nov. I may stop and say hello at Main Line! | ||
| Jose Dias (Hayzeus) New Member Username: Hayzeus Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2003 |
Blue - The FreeLander drinks 87 octane. With the stock wheels and rubber I average 18 mpg with a mix of city and highway driving, and 21 mpg if all hwy | ||
| Michael Mason (Lrmike) New Member Username: Lrmike Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2003 |
Just my quick hoorah for all the back-bone volunteers who pull off this event year after year. I've been attending since '96, and still hooked! Without this dedicated core, the MAR couldn't function. I also had the good furtune of being 'deputized' be S.C. Young, and the entire concept and execution of Trail Marshals at the event was well organized and beneficial. Looking forward to next year already!  | ||
| Robb Sundmaker (Robb) Member Username: Robb Post Number: 94 Registered: 03-2002 |
Susannah, I just looked at your profile and saw your truck and you were next to me. I was in the Rioja Red (maroon) Disco Series I. On the side of the truck you could see when I was parked I had two green stickers, one being the Rovertym sticker. I must admit I snored but not as loud as the two that were close to both of our setups. The big snorer was the guy (and son) who had a guitar. You know who I am talking about? Anyway, sorry I did not meet you. I had a feeling the fact that you were a girl and brought your Rover there that you were a Dweber as well. I actually packed up when everyone was eating Sat night because my brother had a flight early Sunday morning out of Raleigh, NC. We figured instead of packing early Sunday morning before the sun came up we could get a hotel and a good meal (Outback). I know it sounds corny but I am also game for a Dweb meet and greet. I would even wear a friggin' name tag. I don't care. | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 390 Registered: 08-2002 |
Hold on a minute! The guy that was snoring was my brother. I had the son and guitar. I didn't snore but Friday night you might have heard my teeth chattering because I was terribly cold. So cold in fact, I decided that night that I was going to spend eternity in hell, lounging with Satan by a roaring fire and eating jalapeños, wearing a wool union suit. Saturday night, we road trails all night so wasn't me then either. I should have worn a name-tag so you'd know who to bust on. Just kidding. It's all good. His name was Daryl and feel free to give him a hard time about it. | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 116 Registered: 09-2002 |
I discussed this with Steve Andrews in an email while arranging for the "Jeep thing" sticker but I'll throw it out to the board for chop: Next year someone (like maybe even me) should take a page out of tailgating and get a pre-coordinated flag (a Discoweb one would be the best) made and put it up at a campsite to create a central meeting point for Dwebbers to gravitate towards whenever they get the chance. I think that would be an informal way for everyone to have a linkup location. Next year I plan on getting there much earlier in the day and picking a better camping spot to facilitate something like this-although over there near Robb wasn't bad (we didn't hear the snoring-unless it was us...)-and I think finding an area that supports traffic in and out is key but that's all easily sorted out in the future. Steve Hoare-LRM is awesome, both for sponsoring MAR and for catering to the North American market, and I had a great time hanging out at the booth picking up some back issues and just meeting the crew. Ray | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2323 Registered: 10-2001 |
i think next year the snoring people should have to sleep in a sound proof bubble. similar to what john travolta lived in for that movie boy in the bubble. between the freezing cold and snoring it was a rough night. oh and the nightmares i was having of paul, mike, tom, jason, etc. all playing hopscotch in the nude!!! | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 568 Registered: 08-2002 |
Garrett, there was alot of snoring coming from your tent dude!! I heard it when I was awake and not snoring myself! Suz, where were you camping....putting together what Ray said and Steve said, you might not have been far from us? We were around the double white ez-up canopies on the Hill Meadow. Garrett was right behind us, and Steve Andrews kind of next to him. Paul Morgan behind them. Evan Price was next to us. We had the puppies that were well behaved in their pen. | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 391 Registered: 08-2002 |
Don't forget the flag pole with the UK flag, LR flag and BOC flag... how could anyone miss that? We were all camped around it. | ||
| kevin matheny (Kmm) New Member Username: Kmm Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2003 |
A great event. Thanks ROAV and to all the volunteers for making MAR a HUGE success! Garrett and I could not have had a better time meeting new friends and playing in the mud... Thank you Kevin Matheny | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2003 |
LRMike- Thanks for giving so much of your time volunteering- if everyone gave 10% of the time you did, the world (or at least MAR) would be a better place. After hearing the accounts from several people on the trails, I am convinced that you saved at least two people from getting Darwin awards. Thanks again for donating your time! | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2003 |
>>Hehe...Darby is the name of the Freelander that a fellow from another board bought, lifted with a DAP lift kit before ever taking it off-road and without knowing what the lift may or may not do to the vehicle and then proceeded to have some things "let go" on it's first off-road trip causing something like $9000 worth of damage. << Alan- You're so clueless about that stuff. The lift didn't break the truck. The recovery done improperly caused the axle to penetrate the IRD housing. The original breakage was only a CV. How many other LR's broke CV's and didn't have an urban legend started? I have 15,000+ miles with a DAP lift and my Freelander has seen far more hardcore wheeling than the one that broke. Sometimes sh*t just breaks. It just amazes me how people like to beat that same dead horse. | ||
| Ron Ward (Ronward) Senior Member Username: Ronward Post Number: 345 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ahem, the snorers I complained about earlier were in a black Classic LWB with DC plates. They never, never ventured onto any trails. They sat at their folding table and played with some fiddly mini propane camp stove and the younger one played guitar. Never saw them up at the rally tent either. On the discussion about the trail marshall with the piece, I think he was doing a good enough job to deserve some damn respect on this board. I encountered him one time on the flat section of trail where three trails and the river crossing intersect. He'd clearly lost his sense of humor by then dealing with the grid lock. I thought "what an jerk this guy is" at first. Then later in the day realized that we all get frustrated and the natural response is to lose some composure like S.C. Young did in the one instance I witnessed him mouth off to another guest on the trail (part of my group was only trying to lighten up the grid lock situation and S.C. acted out at him). I will say this, however. When we needed S.C. on Friday night about mid-night to help us locate a lost friend (we'd found his truck out on the goat trail) he was nowhere to be found. Worked out ok and from what I have read here I am glad we ended up not bothering him with it. Bottom line, S.C. next year folks will be used to the idea of having a gun toting trail marshall and will probably avoid you altogether causing much less backlash after the fact. I appreciate your efforts and what you were trying to do for the guests at the MAR. Please be careful though, you weren't the only armed participant at the event I bet. Cheers!! Ron Ward | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 537 Registered: 06-2002 |
Oh boy....of all the good and bad opinions I shared...I only get a response on SNORING?! There were a few people in our camp circle that snored. There were two boys that joined our group on Saturday and they rode with us out to the island that night...when we returned one of the men camped next to us was snoring sooooo loud. All you heard for about an hour was "snoooor" "giggle, laugh, snicker" "snooooor" "laugh, snicker, laugh"!! I think Ivan snored as well. It must be the combination of sleeping on the ground and the cold. Steve, I too was freezing Friday night. The combination of a 10-degree sleeping bag, fleece bag liner, Alpaca and wool mix socks and fleece pants STILL did not keep me warm. I awoke Sat am with NO TOES! HAHAHAHAHA! I figured it out Sat night though and added another fleece blanket in the bottom of my too-long bag and wore my husbands Primaloft jacket across my arms and face! I was like a human BURRITO!!! I think we should coordinate a time and place to meet D-webbers. Like early Saturday morning when most people are certain to be there. We arrived late Friday and have decided next year we will definitely take the day off work and come down earlier. I'm not sure if I was camped near any of you. We were on the main Hill across from Rally control. What Paul Morgan described (in our brief meeting) to be the 'family hill!' I was very happy with our spot and glad to be around the people we shared a fire with!! Of course, I didn't discover the meadow until Saturday when we hit the trails. Rode with someone on Friday night and was completely disoriented in the dark! I'll ge the digital camera at lunch and post some pics.  | ||
| jay caragay (Jcaragay) Member Username: Jcaragay Post Number: 155 Registered: 02-2002 |
S.C. - Kimber? Quite nice. Enoch- Definitely missed whatever mountain of posts re: the girl. I really have no interest in whatever controversy that was about, I just find it odd to discuss the sobriety of one person while a large percentage of attendees seemed to be consuming while driving as well. Rans- About the LRM thing, I've casually followed LRM for several years but never felt compelled to subscribe or buy many of the issues. I currently do not see my not reading LRM as a "loss." Steve H- Traditionally, I have found the articles of LRM and the others to be less than interesting which is all the more reason to offer potential readers a free copy - so that they might be able to rediscover the magazine and perhaps be impressed enough to subscribe. Magazines and the quality of their content change from time to time and a free copy is a way to lure back lost readership. For example, there's an industry mag that I used to read several years ago that was quite good, then the quality of the content started to fall and I lost interest and let the subscription lapse. My thoughts on the mag were less than favorable. About a year ago at a trade show, I received a free copy of the mag and the content had improved considerably. Several more issues and the quality and interest was still there and I started a new subscription. With regards to the "discounted" subscription rate, that's typical of most publications. Pay for a subscription and you'll always save over the individual newsstand rate. That alone is not an incentive enough for a magazine that I haven't found compelling to read. LRs and LRM come from England??? Is that supposed to be news? I don't know about you, but I have no problem purchasing or reading publications from overseas, nor paying the extra price it costs to bring it here - so long as the content is interesting and worth reading. LRM did some sponsorship for MAR by providing signage and vests and other support items and that's excellent. It's exciting to go to an event and see things, like the signs, that indicate that the event has hit the "Big Time" with name sponsorship like LRM. So LRM prints a NA edition and that's great. It's about time that some LR publication sees that there is a potential and viable market in North America. Give the LR population more to read about happenings in the US and I think you'll see readership grow and increased profits for LRM UK. Now, to the part that I find most amusing. I posted that I had a great time at MAR and enjoyed everything about it - except for the $5 LRM and the guy who was a tad pushy at the ROAV table. For whatever reason, you want to make this a personal thing - especially with the commentary about not knowing what it takes to put on an event or about owning a Jeep. Perhaps you need to chill out and take a moment. As you said, LRM UK wants to make further expansions based on feedback and sales. Now, you definitely can see that I'm not buying LRM but instead of trying to see what kind of articles would perk my interest and compel me to subscribe to the magazine that you are NA Editor, you want to make a personal attack. Sounds like a novel way to encourage readership and increase sales. Alyssa- While I do realise that publications such as LRM are "For Profit," it seems a small cost to give out the current issue so that non-subscribers and non-readers can "discover" the magazine, see that it has a N.A. section and relevant articles that will encourage these same people to subscribe. As it stands, I am even less compelled to spend $65 for a subscription - even with the free single issue. You can think of it like a drug dealer, give the user the first hit free and if it's good enough, they're hooked and will keep coming back. | ||
| BVO (Hippolvr) New Member Username: Hippolvr Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2003 |
Alan- Just for the record, it wasn't my first time off-road with the little guy, it wasn't my 10th, 20th or 100th time either, but it wasn't the first. Not wanting to bring up old gremlins, just wanted to set that straight...I saw an article while reading a magazine in the doc's office about some people that started web sites, yadda yadda...I thought it was interesting and tried it out, didn't work, but whatever.... And yes, I was at MAR this year and had a blast with those that encouraged and praised my come back and stick-to-it-tiveness (is that even a word?)" | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 743 Registered: 08-2002 |
Sounds like S.C. Young has a control complex or something. I'll make sure not to come to this event if participants are allowed to carry weapons on the trail. "Some tool's dog using a 4 year old for a chew toy" You would use your gun to solve a problem involving a dog and a child? Leash laws would solve this problem more completely and safely than having armed, unmarked civilians. "or a rabid racoon will make you glad I know how to use 13+ years of Federal Law Enforcement." A rabid racoon has something to do with Federal Law Enforcement? You imply both of the above as justification for carrying a gun around on a large event. Seems pretty silly to me and I would suggest neither would require the use of a weapon. Especially if leash laws are in effect for the event. I would expect that most animals stayed pretty far from that many people, dogs and vehicles. "I'm also not going to be the stuckee that has to confront people for doing stupid/dangerous/illegal stuff without some assurance that I have the advantage if things go horribly wrong. " Give me a break. Did you really have the authority and backing to do so. How many other event security people were there to assist you. You really do not wish to do something like that alone even with a gun. "The hell with it- next year YOU donate about a grand of your money and four days of your time helping others instead." Now there is a response that I would expect from someone with years of experience in Federal Law Enforcement. NOT! If I had hired you for this event, this statement alone would ensure that you are not hired for security on the next event. I bet that makes everyone that was at MAR feel like they were so much safer. "I don't need this kinda crap, next year I'll just run the trails and the hell with everyone else." Another mature response. If this is true I believe that the attendees might be a bit safer too. At least your gun and temper will be farther away from the masses of people. "I quit- Now YOU step up and take a shot at trying to ensure 500+ people's safety. You have no idea what it takes..." Apparently nieither do you. More security people, more badges and open showing of there involvement in event security should be enough. With something like this, I would expect something professional. Someone in civilian clothes running around without proper identification is unprofessional and possibly dangerous especially if he is assiting with recovery and such. | ||
| Steve Hoare (Pabrit) New Member Username: Pabrit Post Number: 7 Registered: 05-2003 |
Good morning, Jay Your interest/non interest in Land Rover magazines is duelly noted. However, it appears that neither LRM or any other of the existing L/R magazines suit your needs and requirements. Interests in Land Rovers is wide and varied, as such magazines (including LRM) go to great lengths to "strike a balance" regarding content. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on what a "utopic" Land Rover magazine should look like. Do you expect to read/scan any magazine or newspaper....before you buy it? If so, I suggest membership to your local library where selections of magazines/newspapers and books are available free of charge. Another suggestion would be to start your own Land Rover publication. In this way you can cater directly to your own interests. (I look forward to receiving a complimentary issue). Regarding your comment about NOT buying LRM, to be honest I'm quite relieved, as clearly our current product would not satisfy you. Steve Hoare North American Editor (LRM) | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 417 Registered: 02-2003 |
Steve: What is the details of LRM's subscribtion offer? I seem to have read somewhere that it is good until the end of the month? I am sure many people here on DWeb that were unable to attend MAR would be interested in the offer if it is still open? Feel free to post details here. - Axel | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 794 Registered: 09-2002 |
BVO - I stand corrected and I'm sorry for the inaccurate statement. Good to see you "get back on the horse" so to speak. You could have easily said "that's it, I've had enough" but you didn't and I give you credit for that. S.C. - that was how the account was described at the time (some even by the owner himself) and I'm sure more things were revealed over time. It was also asked if Brian (the owner of the vehicle I believe) had off-roaded very much and at the time he admitted that he hadn't or at least known enough to know whether he needed the lift or what the possible ramifications of the lift might have been. Again, that was what was said at the time, maybe it was incorrectly interpreted or relayed. Someone asked how the name "Darby" came about so that was how I relayed it as I last knew it. You're right, I wasn't there so I can't comment and won't again but I didn't add anymore than what was said. Not here to bring up old issues or start an argument (go find someone else for that) nor do I want to. Like I said, it's never good to see that happen to anyone nor would I wish it on anyone but read through the threads/website and tell me if you think that situation couldn't have been handled better. Even Brian would probably agree that some things could have been done differently. That's the last of my comments on that incident. | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 538 Registered: 06-2002 |
Ok guys...can we please stop BEATING THE HORSE WITH THE GUN?! Let's enjoy talking about a great weekend where things DID NOT go "horribly wrong" and everyone was safe and happy (with the exception of the Golden Retriever). PLEASE?! Axel, too bad you couldn't come down. I'd like to meet you in person! | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2042 Registered: 02-2002 |
Sus, Too bad we didn't get a chance to talk longer than 30 seconds. Next year, I am going to set up a chair / cooler in the main area and not move for at least two hours. When I got home Sunday night, I felt like I ran a marathon trying to see people from all over the east. Axel, I paid $65 for a year long sub that starts in December. Upon receipt of payment, I was handed a bunch of stickers, a pen, and the latest issue. I know that if you buy each issue month by month, it will add up a lot higher than $65. A good way to get a hold of Steve is via the 'philly rovers' group. Paul | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 795 Registered: 09-2002 |
I think it'd be kinda cool to have something like a Discoweb Rover Rally. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 418 Registered: 02-2003 |
Are you volunteering to organize it? - Axel | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 796 Registered: 09-2002 |
Hehe...not sure that's a wise thing to volunteer for after everything I've read on this thread! Besides, if I volunteer, it might end up in the Alberta Rockies instead which would be a long drive for almost everyone except a handful of people. | ||
| Steve Hoare (Pabrit) New Member Username: Pabrit Post Number: 8 Registered: 05-2003 |
Axel The "MAR" special is $65/year subscription, plus a free issue. In addition, if subsribers wish to "lock in" the low subscription offer they can sign up for 2 or 3 years aswell, at the same rate $65/year. Anyone interested should email me offline with their mailing address and I will send the special subscription form. (lrmusa@yahoo.com). For those people that missed MAR, it truely was/is a wonderful Land Rover event. Lots of great activities, wonderful people and Land Rovers. I agree with Paul Morgan......not enough time! It is interesting to note the as the UK has too many shows/events, attendance is being diluted....as such it is conceiviable that in the coming years that MAR could become the world's largest Land Rover gathering! Amen to that!! Many thanks Steve North American Editor (LRM) | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bri- You're so clueless it's not even worth going much into. I certainly have no temper problem and the guy that thinks I "acted out" on someone is completely wrong. No way- didn't happen. My patience with the gridlock was thin becaus I was being called back to Rallye Control for a medical issue and couldn't get there... It's possible to show impatience and not be "out of control." Asking someone to move their truck over to the side is hardly "acting out." Maybe you can't control yourself and project that issue on others. The only person who I was even the least bit confrontational with was the drunk GWagen girl because she was reportedly driving WAY too fast near the island campsites. Even then was polite. Unfortunately sarcasm doesn't come across well in a forum, but when people always bitch about the way something was done- why is it they never step up and do the work? I gave them the chance- nobody took it. "I'll make sure not to come to this event if participants are allowed to carry weapons on the trail" Well, maybe you shouldn't come- some people have already said they had weapons with them. I'd bet there were at least a dozen. And yes, if some dog attacks someone and isn't immediately able to be subdued- it's put down. Standard operating procedure for every jurisdiction I've seen. Human safety eclipses the dog's right to life. Now that people are fabricating that I have a temper, it's just getting stupid now. I'm sure there will be more fabrication and urban legends born. Get a clue... If someone needed me and "couldn't find me anywhere" it's because they didn't try. My radio was on 24hrs and my camper was right behind Rallye Control. If you didn't find me, you didn't look. I would have been happy to help if someone needed anything. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 420 Registered: 02-2003 |
Yes, by next year there will be stories about the rabid sheriff deputy who morphed into the green hulk and shot people with poison laden silver bullets, turning them into snoring vampires at the '03 MAR..... - Axel | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2003 |
I say let's all agree to disagree- If you'd like to make suggestions for next years event, please share them when the planning committee asks for volunteers. As the event grows, the needs change and we learn from each event as we go. Instead of insulting, blaming, fabricating and taking shots at anyone- if you feel strongly about how things should be done, just speak up and get involved on the planning side. It's like not going to vote, then getting pissed at the election results. Anyway- seems that the vast majority had a good time. I was surprised that there weren't more vendors like Triple-C or that guy that sells all the C.T. stuff. I was hoping for more vendors, or at least ones that would actually sell me the D1 track bar for the front axle that was on display instead of suggesting I call "next week."  | ||
| jay caragay (Jcaragay) Member Username: Jcaragay Post Number: 156 Registered: 02-2002 |
Steve- I'm amazed that this point is being carried forward this far. And you're right, currently none of the LR related magazines suit my needs or requirements. Hence the reason I do not purchase subscriptions to any of the LR mags. I agree that the LR landscape is wide and varied and the publication tends to focus on English events and Series articles. Since I do not live in the U.K. nor do I own a Series Rover, these articles and issues are of little value to me. As far as a "utopic" LR mag, I seriously doubt there is one. However, if you believe that your editorship produces the "utopic" LR mag then I say more power to you. The library is a nice place to read magazines, but I prefer going to the local newsstand. That way, I can purchase the issues I find relevant and interesting. Starting my own LR publication is a thought but I certainly have no interest in being a publisher of an LR related magazine. But it's interesting to note that you would choose such a jibe. But rest assured, if I was a publisher of any magazine, I would be very interested in distributing free copies to pertinent parties as a means of increasing the subscriber base. Since most periodicals do similar I am surprised by the level of venom in your posts. Glad to read that you're relieved that I am "NOT BUYING" LRM. Heaven forbid that the editor should be inclined to increase readership spending! Just to let you know, the $65 that could have gone towards an LRM subscription will be going towards Magnecore wires. P.S. - Since you're the North American Editor for LRM and you've decided to take an adversarial context with me, I take it the cover feature and photo shoot is out? | ||
| Steve Hoare (Pabrit) New Member Username: Pabrit Post Number: 9 Registered: 05-2003 |
Jay I originally responded to your unwarranted criticism of LRM. Being a public forum you are free to post you own thoughts but I believe I (and anyone else) also have the right to respond to such criticism. The fact that I responded at all should demonstrate that LRM takes all feedback (even yours) very seriously. Afterall it is feedback from North American Land Rover owners that has enabled the launch of the LRM North American Edition and will steer the content of future issues. I would still welcome your thoughts as to what you would LIKE to see in a L/R magazine. Also, you maybe pleased to hear that due to overwhelming demand that Barnes & Noble has announced that they are carrying LRM nationwide..........so if you choose you may browse an issue at your local Barnes & Noble. Steve Hoare North American Editor (LRM) | ||
| jay caragay (Jcaragay) Member Username: Jcaragay Post Number: 157 Registered: 02-2002 |
Steve- Unwarranted criticism? Hmmm, that's news. The discussion of the thread seems to have been the pros and cons of MAR. For me, one of the cons of MAR was the LRM issue. As I said originally: "...I kind of expected LRM to [pass out their current issue free] to bolster sales and encourage subscriptions." You're welcome to respond to such criticism and attempt to label it a demonstration of LRM taking all feedback (even mine) very seriously. However, the reality of your posts were attempts at being nasty and trying to make a personal attack, especially with your jibes of having no idea the work it takes to put on an event such as MAR or that I should go and buy a Jeep or that I should publish my own LR mag or what I think a "utopic" LR mag should look like. Not to mention how relieved you are that I am NOT BUYING LRM because the product doesn't satisfy me. Now, putting all that aside and since you asked, what I would be interested in seeing in LRM NA are more articles pertaining to ownership of Discos (since that is what I drive). Personally speaking, I'm not very interested in seeing on-road tests of the 2005 Disco or whatever technological boo-ya is coming from Ford next year. I'd like to see features on vehicles and their mods. Who has the most interesting mods and the places they've been. Maybe visits to aftermarket manufacturers and extended trips in vehicles prepped by the manufacturers to see what they can take. Even in-depth articles that really probe the LR world and it's industry, like why is Safari Guard's customer service so lame? How the LR Dealerships screw you in the service department. And then the usual maintenance how-to's that LRM does so well already. How about an annual guide to LR modifications with real world user ratings, so that the reader can tell at a glance how the RoverTym Sliders match against Safari Guard and all the rest? LRM coming to Barnes & Noble? Excellent. Now, if I can only get my B&N to stock Lowrider I'll be happy. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 744 Registered: 08-2002 |
S.C. Young, Apparently you see no problem with the things that you have said so I will not attempt to argue with you about how silly some of them sound. You can call me clueless as you did, but then you would be wrong. Some people do not feel more safe around guns openly carried, especially in the manner that you did. As evidence in this thread. In addition, I happen to believe that your being armed, doing the things you were doing, you were more of a safety concern than the reasons for which you were carrying. The last thing that I want to do is be around hundreds of people, some drunk, some with guns, 99% of which I do not know or trust. I have no desire to be at MAR, you have reenforced that. So don't bother sayng that I should not be there, when I have already said I will not. I have no problem with guns, just guns at an event like this carried in the manner that they were described here. End of argument from me. Be safe. | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) Senior Member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 620 Registered: 11-2002 |
Here are my thoughts on MAR... 1. The whole weekend sucked for me. 2. Everyone I met was rude. 3. Seems like there were guns everywhere. 4. Not enough time on the trail for me. For the record...I had to work all weekend (Still activated Reservist), so I did not go...therefore the whole thing sucked and you all suck for going without me! (Hope you can catch the sarcastic tone there!) Hope I get to go next year if I am a civillian again. Sounds like it was great! I would really like to meet some more of my fellow D-Webbers in person. | ||
| Sean Roche (Crazy_fish) New Member Username: Crazy_fish Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2003 |
First TImer at MAR I've only been a Rover owner for about 6 months now, and MAR was my first major event. I also belong to ROVERS club in PA. I am working on a 66 109 SW which did not make it to the event. I'm impressed with the number and variations of Land Rovers. Not just model years but beater stock to glorified trail machines. Newbie thoughts: 99% of the people got along with everyone else. Ever been to a Vintage Ford or Chevy or whatever event? They argue about which bolt is correct on the ( pick something rediculous) Everyone was helpful. There was a Series that had bunches of people under the hood for hours. Just leading a hand. Thats the spirit of a dedicated event to me. Rides- I got rides in a wide variety of vehicles. Some of the folks had never met me nor asked anything other than " want to ride with us?" I rode the same trails in Discos, Defenders and a 49 Series 1. That is a bonus. Meeting David Gage in person was great. He has been very helpful with my project. Thoughtful advice and great pricing. Nice combination for someone who has no idea what I'm doing. I think its great that vendors and LRM and other sponsors even show up. Yes, its to help their business, but wasn't it nice to get that part you needed right away? Meet the people behind the scene? I didn't expect a freebie from anyone but the free water sure was a nice thing from Atlantic British. I learned many things, and came back with new ideas on what to do with my rover. I thought the tricked out Freelander was silly, but then again he'll probably think my 109 is silly too. Thats what makes the event great. Its all about Land Rovers. All in all, I had a great time, met some interesting people, and drove away from the event glad I owed a Rover. I thank you for your time. | ||
| Charles Allen (Callen229) Member Username: Callen229 Post Number: 78 Registered: 07-2002 |
I LOVED it. It was well run and I think the thought put into security was a very good idea. In my opinion every one should be armed even the dogs and the rabid racoons!!! Next year I will be back with better tires and try to meet more Dwebbers. Charles | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 354 Registered: 11-2002 |
SC I'm not trying to pick a argument with you but you are missing the point. Its not about the animals/dog's right to life. its about the child/person that the dog has latched onto. I have had extensive animal control training and worked with dogs for years. Rule #1 is not to use a firearm...dogs can flip and flop in an instant and trying to safely shot a dog during a attack is just not possible. just as there are proper tools for a vehicle recovery there are proper tools for a dog attack . and trust me the animal control officers dont just start popping of at a dog when its latched to a person. you are starting to sound like if you cant wear your gun you would not be willing to assist in supervising a large event.? that is puzzeling to me? I can fully understand taking a weapon for personal protection into the outback. when there are not any people for miles and miles coming across the wrong person or people can be dangerous. but to think that you need firearms at a event with so many people(see:strength in numbers) I think you may have some unfullfilled cowboy tendencies. thom | ||
| BVO (Hippolvr) New Member Username: Hippolvr Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sean is the second person now to say the "tricked out" Freelander was silly, or the like. Yet, there is never any mention of similiar "tricked out" Disco's, Rangies, etc. SC's Hippo has similiar accessories as most other trucks there. He has a lift, snorkel, winch, sliderz, roofrack with lights, etc. What's wrong with making the truck a little more off-highway ready?? Sure we won't be taking the hippo's rock crawling, but they did damn well, even pulled out a few stuck discos in some spots. I am not looking to start a this model vs. that model "discussion"...I just find it odd that we are calling something silly just because it is on a different model.... $.02 | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 424 Registered: 02-2003 |
The same comments were being made when the Disco was the new kid on the block. There isn't anything wrong with a tricked out Freelander, it's just that people aren't used to them yet. Give it time, once whatever new model Ford is dreaming up for LR comes out, the Freelander will be off the hook. Personally, I like the Freelander a lot, it is a different animal than my Disco, but the Disco and my wife's Freelander complements each other very well. - Axel | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 798 Registered: 09-2002 |
Throw a Defender into the stables with the Disco and Freelander and you're set for life! Those little 3 door Freelanders are kinda neat although I almost gave myself a hernia trying to get into the backseats... | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 355 Registered: 11-2002 |
I think the freelander is awsome ! I drove a HSE model about 6 mos ago and was not only surprised I had visions of BAJA. for blasting down logging trails it surely was superior to my old subaru outback .would it trail drive like a stock disco?...I cant say because the owner was nervous enough letting me drive it after about 1/4 mile. just wait and see...the super trail tricked freelanders are coming...just like any 4x4 very few first owners of a vehicle ever "wheel it". the second owner that buys it cheaper to use it like it was meant to be more often ends up with the "tricked out" trail rig. when they start hitting the used market real cheap I plan on scarfing one up.It will make for a great snowmobile on the ice and snow covered roads of the midwest mm | ||
| BVO (Hippolvr) New Member Username: Hippolvr Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2003 |
Great point Axel! I look at it this way, the Hippo got me into the marquee, and I am now hooked. Though it won't happen for a while, I have been keeping my eyes on Series that go up for sale, or even a D90, just as trail/project vehicals. As for MAR...This was my 2nd year in attendance. I only have two suggestions...Better marking of the trails. They used arrow shapped signs pointing towards the trail, but in tiny lettering wrote exit...If I just saw the sign I would assume that was the direction I was supposed to travel....Maybe some better gradings as well. Like others have said, more of a ski slope raiting... Second, have the trails run one direction for a period of time, then reverse it. The problem becomes, how you enforce/police something like this? Brian | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 799 Registered: 09-2002 |
"a great snowmobile on the ice and snow covered roads of the midwest" LOL...snowmobile?? What kind of mods are you thinking of making Thom?? The 4x4 park that I go to uses skiing type markers (green circle for stock, blue for slightly modified and black very difficult) for trail difficulty which I find quite useful and they also have a number out of 10 right next to the marker so you have a more specific idea as to whether to attempt the trail or not. | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 247 Registered: 04-2003 |
Thom, I was thinking the same thing -- nothing like a little scatback for tearing along those county highways in northern Wisconsin. I've seen them on trails at the Pipeline and at Lake Geneva's trail area, and they're pretty good at what you'd expect. Not rock crawling of course, but they were door-trim-deep in mud and got through without problems... FWIW, Andy | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 441 Registered: 11-2002 |
Site just wouldnt be the same with out some lame ass MAR BS. Oh , and some lame ass •••••••••• BS..... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 249 Registered: 04-2003 |
Kyle, just out of curiousity, what was the word under all those red dots? | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 250 Registered: 04-2003 |
We've got to be getting into the Top 10 Longest DiscoWeb Threads, right? | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior Member Username: Karen Post Number: 183 Registered: 02-2002 |
I blame Alan. For everything. He's just pure trouble. KJ | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 425 Registered: 02-2003 |
Andrew, Kyle wrote •••••••••• Does that clear it up? - Axel | ||
| Sean Roche (Crazy_fish) New Member Username: Crazy_fish Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2003 |
About the Freelander- My point was it was silly looking to ME. I've seen 100 tricked out other vehicles and the effect wears off fast. My point was that I made no judgemental opinions on the driver, and that I liked seeing ALL Rovers, from basic to the trail monsters to the war wagons. What fun would it be if everyone had the same vehicle with the same mods? Some camped, some brought trailers, some brought 36 foot RV's. Some had money to spend on their cars some did not. Some liked the original look, some spent serious time, effort and money on improvements or restorations. Again, the point was it was all Rover, owned by all walks of life, all having some fun. LIke I said before I have a 66 109 SW that ain't real pretty, if you dont like it, or think its silly, or odd or whatever, thats fine with me. This is America and no hard feelings on my part. If you want to make fun of me, please read LRM NA edition and look for the Mr Zen series of articles. Thats me. I call it the "Moron gets a Rover" series. I think LRM is more polite calling it humor. Thank you for your time. | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 544 Registered: 06-2002 |
Karen, we definitely needed your thoughts to brighten this thread! Too bad we missed meeting you again! | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 442 Registered: 11-2002 |
I was calling the freelander by its best name , but it apears that its been put on the sensored list,,,lol. Its a CRV , we all know it... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 443 Registered: 11-2002 |
Free "Blow me" | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 444 Registered: 11-2002 |
Loader "Blow me" | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 800 Registered: 09-2002 |
Heyyy? What did I do?? Karen are you referring to another Alan that I don't know about?????? Hehe... "scatback"...that's a new one I've never heard. Boy, the Freelander is taking quite the beating on nicknames here. A rally style Freelander would be neat. That way you could go fast enough to skip over the mud holes...or break all 4 wheels off trying...and end up with a jellybean | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 251 Registered: 04-2003 |
••••••••••••• Now I get it. Andy | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 252 Registered: 04-2003 |
(1) I forgot to say -- "scatback" is a football reference. Think of the little running back who's fast and manueverable but not designed or intended to go through much rough stuff. Think of Warrick Dunn in his prime... (2) "Jellybean" -- ROFLMFAO! (3) I made "Senior Member" status! Wow! I guess all those posts trying to figure out how the hell to wire my Hellas paid off! What's next after this -- Moderator? No, all those spots are filled. DWeb Lounge Member? I s'pose I'll just wait for the invitation... Andy | ||
| jay caragay (Jcaragay) Member Username: Jcaragay Post Number: 160 Registered: 02-2002 |
Alan- Was at the local Borders Bookstore this evening and took a browse through the latest copy of Land Rover World. There's an article and some pics of a rally prepped Freelander - just as you ordered. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2043 Registered: 02-2002 |
I like DARBY. Just the sound of DARBY makes me happy. DARBY DARBY DARBY DARBY Some TV ad ideas: Unleash the fury of the new Land Rover Darby in your neighborhood Hey Darby, that thing gotta HEMI? Darby: Not just for the mall anymore Paul Disclaimer: Everyone knows the Pig cannot do 60 | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 801 Registered: 09-2002 |
ROTFLMAO - Paul, does DARBY have those googly eyes that roll around when you shake it?? Jay - thanks! I'll have a browse through my bookstore. I saw a clip of one on the LR site and thought it was pretty cool. | ||
| BVO (Hippolvr) New Member Username: Hippolvr Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2003 |
Just when I thought we were getting somewhere.... | ||
| Rich Lee (Rich_lee) New Member Username: Rich_lee Post Number: 20 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hi All, First, I WASN'T at MAR, so I can't speak from any experience about the event. However, I have been involved with crash/rescue/EMS at SCCA road races and rallies for over 25 years and have a few suggestions, based on what I've read on this post. 1. If traffic is backing up OR an emergency support vehicle needs to get somwhere in a hurry, have some pre-planned "bypass" routes and restricted access "service" roads. I don't know if the layout at MAR would have allowed this, but it might reduce the frustration of those who were waiting in traffic longer than they can stand AND reduce the anxiety of marshalls/ems people who need to be 2 places at once. 2. Pre-announce (in the handouts, that not everyone will read) that some of the safety/security staff are highly trained in law enforcement and that they usually carry a service weapon at the event (as either a matter of off-duty obligation or professional habit). Make it clear that all safety/security people will be clearly identified by hats, shirts, vests and photo name tags. 3. Be sure that all event officials have all the items needed for their "uniforms", hopefully donated by a supportive outdoor clothing company/supplier. That way, if someone has to remove a jacket, change a shirt, looses a hat, they still are wearing something that is easily recognizable. Vests are best, because they can be worn over almost anything (including food stains and weapons)and don't need to be sized perfectly. It sounds like Steve didn't have one. 4.While you're at it try to get some obvious vehicle markings like large identical "paint-friendly" door/hood/window stickers including a simple reflective symbol(magnetic signs aren't going to work). If you can, try to enlist/borrow vehicles of an identical color (white would be easy). Supply each vehicle with a portable yellow strobe light (many states don't allow red/blue strobes) 5.Discourage public display of firearms, by anyone. Unless you are at a shooting range, hunting camp, or in a war zone, it is an awful distraction to individuals and families who would rather not have to wonder/worry about the qualifications, intent, sanity or drinking habits of "unofficial" people who are openly packing in crowded events. Save that for small group trips in wide open spaces. 6. For those who really want to bring their guns, offer "sporting clays" or other "plinking" contests at a (not too) nearby shooting range. Give those who wish to teach/demonstrate their skill a chance to do so in a secure & gun-friendly place. 7. STRONGLY DISCOURAGE drinking on the trail. I know most people can hold their liquor and drink responsibly, but you don't always know who. I don't see how pushing the limits of people and Rovers along with potentially dangerous recovery efforts would require LESS attention and sobriety than is mandated for public roads. 8. Get Alyssa to volunteer, paid for by her employer (at overtime rates) and with paid relif so she can go wheel for at least half a day. You can always do with more women with authority in high-visability tasks. Get all the regional Rover dealerships and suppliers to do the same. This practice often ensured a good turnout of even more good-loking women and elligable men at SCCA events. 9. All cold sleeping women should arrange to be sleeping with warm-blooded men. Susannah, where was your husband? If there are no suitable men, then consider the new catalytic "tent-safe" propane heaters and/or disposable "pocket warmers" placed between layers of socks. Even if the guy doesn't sleep with you, he can pull "sherpa duty". This means when my wife wakes up, she does so in a warm tent and is greeted with a warm cup of tea, a warm bowl of water and a hot shower in a warm shower tent. I bought all the supplies for this kind of service at K-mart for under $200 (including the 2 burner propane stove). 10. Provide/encourage special events & areas for kids & dogs. Bike trials courses, portable petting zoos, informal dog shows, geocaching treasure hunts and poop-scooping contests are but a few ideas. That's all I can think of for now. It would be nice (for some anyway) to have a large group of Rovers meet in a suitable place out west someday. Ho, you listening? | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 663 Registered: 04-2003 |
one quick comment: 7. STRONGLY DISCOURAGE drinking on the trail. Change that to PROHIBIT. At a huge family event like this, there is just no place for it. In my opinion. | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 547 Registered: 06-2002 |
Rich Lee, Where were you BEFORE I got married huh?! J/K (I could get in major trouble for that comment!) I'm liking the idea of sherpa duty. Unfortunately, my husband was sleeping right next to me in a sleeping bag of his own...we are going to get bags that zip together soon, but for now it was an individual sleeping arrangement! WARM WATER? WARM SHOWER? WHERE? WHERE? WHERE? We have a sun shower, that I refuse to use when it's cold. Plenty of water for cooking, a propane stove and lantern, but not a tent warmer. We are buying one soon if we do any more cold weather camping. I think the sudden change in temperature just took me by surprise! Tell your wife she is one lucky gal.....if she doesn't already know it. I'm sure Ivan would rather have ME greet HIM with a warm cup of tea in the morning! I'm kidding...he takes good care of me. From wisdom teeth surgery to letting me drive my truck through the mud! We each have our turn. | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior Member Username: Karen Post Number: 184 Registered: 02-2002 |
Alan, as a wise man once said, "You're guilty of SOMETHING!" LOL! Besides, if you have to ask, you just might be OLD! ;) Heehee.... just doing my part to keep the Canadians under control.... Sus, one of these years we'll make MAR. While you kids were there we were dueling with the bastard child of Isabel, the damage left behind. What a mess, we're still working on it. As for being cold, Karen does all-weather for work, not for pleasure. I'm afraid I might have to repair to the HO-tel if I was in danger of coldness. The only thing I hate more than cold is winter. Or something like that! KJ | ||
| Sergei Rodionov (Uzbad) Member Username: Uzbad Post Number: 119 Registered: 08-2003 |
Rich - you forgot to adress snoring | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 253 Registered: 04-2003 |
Just prohibit it. Hand out Breathe Right strips and earplugs for everyone camping at the rally. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1084 Registered: 09-2002 |
Blue, I beg you to reconsider. I feel if you want to bring a family with small children and pets to a large four-wheeling gathering, you better consider the circumstances. Have to say that in my short experience with big events LR rides had the least amount of alcohol involved.. Maybe I even had the most part of it. OTOH, I haven't been offered weed in any event but LR. As far as children and pets go... They deserve to roam free (within reasonable limits), and they have to roam free to be themselves; few things are uglier than a dog left alone tied to a tree, or a little kid that is brought to the woods and isn't allowed anywhere for various fears. | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 299 Registered: 04-2003 |
If we are going to talk about by pass routes, why not just issue out ATV's to the Trail Marshals? This would all but eliminate issues with traffic. A nice Polaris Scrambler | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 666 Registered: 04-2003 |
so Peter, you're saying that if you bring your family w/ small children to a huge event, you need to drink on the trail? LOL, you may be right I don't think we're on the same page here - I'm saying a large venue that charges the entrant should PROHIBIT drinking on the trails because it's such a large event that law of probablility says something is gonna go wrong, and alcohol only drives that probability up. Children & pets can roam free, no problem. Natural selection will keep everyone in line there. But alcohol will increase the danger of letting the animals (including humans) roam free. Most of you guys know I'm not a teetotaler at all. Just some observations from the outside on these large, organized, pay to play events... | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 258 Registered: 04-2003 |
Blue -- Look at what Post Number you just had. He's not angry, but he's evil...   J/K, as you know... | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1085 Registered: 09-2002 |
Blue, you're amazingly close on all counts. My only drawback (or advantage) is that my kid can legally drive me home while I'm hopelessly drunk... and the only thing my dog can't stand a second is when someone tries to hump him... being on the same page - sure we are, but it's a different one. you brought up the value of large events somewhere in this thread... | ||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 81 Registered: 08-2003 |
This has to be a record for the most post on one topic! Damn, I want to go to MAR if it's this popular. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 368 Registered: 11-2002 |
sorry mister barnes...not even close | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 802 Registered: 09-2002 |
There were a few political debates that blow this one out of the water. | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 336 Registered: 10-2002 |
"...I haven't been offered weed in any event but LR." LOL Peter-It's all these damn Deadheads! | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 771 Registered: 02-2002 |
which reminds me of a favorite saying describing another LR event: "like Deadheads with Aluminum". Jaime | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1098 Registered: 02-2003 |
smoking aluminum? that sounds hard core.. hehe | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 668 Registered: 04-2003 |
LOL Andrew...I've passed 666 a few times now and I hear what you're saying Peter. I have to put huge wood blocks on the pedals when I need my 3-year old to drive me home. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 434 Registered: 02-2003 |
Are you volunteering to put it together? Big events require a lot of planning and work, I doubt Ho will have either the time or inclination to put one together any time soon. - Axel | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1088 Registered: 09-2002 |
Ron Ammon has done just that not too long ago. |
