| Author | Message | ||
     Joshua Smith (98hoo) New Member Username: 98hoo Post Number: 35 Registered: 09-2002 |
I noticed on my way home from MAR that my rear detoit locker will not disengage. I checked the fluid - it was full. I jacked up the rear end and shook the wheels forwar and backwards. I could get them to disengage on the jack, but not once I lowered it and started driving again. I imagine I need to pull the third member, but what do I look for then? Is this something I need to take to a shop and have re-built? | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 117 Registered: 02-2003 |
Now where are all those "ARB will fail on you" guys??? HUH??? EVERYTHING fails once is a while...  | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 370 Registered: 02-2003 |
I'd call tractech... | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1144 Registered: 02-2002 |
The only time a Detroit is not locked is when you are turning corners. Is it dragging the outside tire when turning a corner on asphalt? If it disengages by hand when you spin the wheels by hand, it is hard to believe that it will not when driving? Did you check for broken axle? Bill | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 91 Registered: 07-2003 |
How do you know the locker is not disengaging? Are you sure the center diff is not locked? | ||
| Joe M. (Little_joe) Member Username: Little_joe Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2002 |
Also, be sure to check your tire pressures side-to-side. If there's any significant difference, it will not unlock. joe | ||
| Joshua Smith (98hoo) New Member Username: 98hoo Post Number: 36 Registered: 09-2002 |
I know the locker is not disengaging because the tires chirp when I turn corners (dragging the outside tire and spinning the inside one), and it makes it hard to take tight turns. It is not easy to get it to disengaged when it is up in the air, and it locks up again really quickly. I definately do not think it is a broken axle as that would allow on of the wheels to turn freely. The tire pressure is equal on both sides as well, so I am thinking there is some moving part in the locker that is not disengaging. Any more advise? I will call the company as well. | ||
| Luke Tolson (Luke4696) Member Username: Luke4696 Post Number: 242 Registered: 06-2003 |
Seems like you have stumped the panel here, I think a phone call is in order unless you are mechanically inclined and want to tear into what could be a can of worms. -Luke | ||
| James (Jimmyg) Senior Member Username: Jimmyg Post Number: 402 Registered: 10-2002 |
Nadim, You took the words right out of my mouth! | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1148 Registered: 02-2002 |
Hmmmm, one possible detroit issue out of numerous ARB issues over the past 4 years discussed on this board and others - still don't think it's a comparison Bill | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 561 Registered: 03-2003 |
It ain't the Detroit. Don't follow the moronic, non-Bill Bettridge advice on this thread. It ain't the tire pressure either, that's for sure. If you can unlock the diff with your bare hands, it ain't the Detroit. I would check your center diff first. It could be stuck in lock or shattered. | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 121 Registered: 02-2003 |
Bill, Not to hijack this thread , but I just wanted to show that 99% of ARB failures are install-related / mal-use rather than product failure. I mean, ARB lockers have a VERY good ratio of survival in the harsh lands of 4 wheeling accross the globe given the amount of sodl units AND the amount of air, mechanical and electrical components. True, "slap a DT in the back anf forget it" you're ABSOLUTELY right, but I'd like an open locker for snow/ice/asphalt please. We can argue a LOT about that (as we've already seen), but basically "to each his own", mine is a selective one, ARB seems to be the best in that. Anyways, this htread is for Josh's problem...let's stick to solving that... | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 372 Registered: 02-2003 |
In the short time I've had a detroit, I've not yet used in in anger off road but on the dirt track street I live on, suspect that there is an increased amount of transmission wind up, based on the longer period of time it takes for the CD to unlock. I'd jack a wheel off the ground and with the CD nominally unlocked see of you can move the truck...it it moves the unlocked CD is actually locked and you've isolated the problem... | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1149 Registered: 02-2002 |
Nadim - I agree with you 100% and actually am having fun with this! I guess my point is that I've seen VERY few high quality installs (ie: compressor mounting and location, wiring, air line routing, etc) - it certainly can be done right, but it isn't very often. And still you've got a compressor, switches, solenoids to go bad even if the locker itself is bulletproof (which it pretty much is). Finally, I think ARB cheaps out on the basic ancillary components. I don't think much of the compressor nor the air lines and fittings. They sell a heavy duty line and fitting kit which is pretty good, but why not just make it standard and not mess with the cheap crap? Sure you can run it with a powertank type setup which is simpler, but there is still extra stuff to worry about. I know this is kind of like arguing gun control and abortion - no one side ever convinces the other, but it is a fun distraction. Bill | ||
| Joshua Smith (98hoo) New Member Username: 98hoo Post Number: 37 Registered: 09-2002 |
If the center diff was stuck, why would I have problems with the tire chirping? I don't think I would. In any case, I talked to tractech, and they recommended that I drain the fluid and see if there are any metal shavings/teeth in the fluid. Then, I will have to pull the third member and look for broken pieces. I plan on going ahead and soaking/cleaning the whole thing. If I still have a problem I will have to have the thing taken apart and rebuilt. Thanks for all the advice. If I had the money I would definately have an ARB. The random lock-up on an offramp is enough to scare most anyone. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1152 Registered: 02-2002 |
"The random lock-up on an offramp is enough to scare most anyone" This statement may be reflective of your problem - A Detroit does not just randomly lock or unlock - period. It is locked all the time, unless you are turning a sharp (usually slow) corner. It will not unlock during a slow curving situation like an off ramp as there is not enough differential wheel speed to do so. Without being rude, it seems like there is some misinformation on how a Detroit operates. Unless of course your is truly defective, but I don't think it would operate in such a fashion even if it were. Have the center diff locked will most certainly make your tires scrub and chirp on hard pavement. It will be interesting to find out the condition of both the axles and the locker though when you pull it. Hope you report back. Bill | ||
| mark gomez (Mark) New Member Username: Mark Post Number: 25 Registered: 05-2003 |
I had a Detroit in my old s-10 that stayed lock most of the time. If I made a 90 degree turn from a stop it would chirp the tires due to giving it gas. If I coasted into a 90 degree turn it would unlock until I stepped on the gas. I always thought this was normal Detroit behavior. Basically it would only unlock in tight turns while off the gas. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 786 Registered: 05-2002 |
Sure - drain the fluid and see what you see. It certainly can't hurt anything. I would not bother to pull the third member unless you take a very close look at your CDL linkage first though. It sounds to me like it may be bent or otherwise damaged and the CD is slipping in and out of engagement. If you can turn a wheel when it is lifted then your Detroit IS disengaging. I will bet dollars to donuts that this is the CDL. -Curtis | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 811 Registered: 05-2002 |
Joshua, What were the results? -C | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 101 Registered: 07-2003 |
"A Detroit does not just randomly lock or unlock - period." I can say they do. When the Detroit in the rear of my truck broke that is just what it would do. Driving on a stright road the locker would engage or disengage and shift the whole truck to one side, and make a loud bang sound. I don't know what gave out on the locker, but Tracktec covered it under warranty. The locker broke after breaking an axle. | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 267 Registered: 04-2003 |
Will, were you driving with stock axles? Maybe it wasn't the locker that was breaking; maybe it was the axle? Andy | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 102 Registered: 07-2003 |
No the axle broke. I slid in a new one and the locker was busted. I never did hear what broke in the locker. All I know is that they called it "Tension Overload". | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 272 Registered: 04-2003 |
"Tension Overload"? LOL -- Wouldn't that translate in engineer-speak to "something we welded wasn't welded right, or the metal wasn't strong enough, or something"? At first I thought that said "Tension Overlord" -- like Satan or the Stress Demon had possessed the locker... | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 103 Registered: 07-2003 |
The only thing can figure is when the axle snapped the recoil popped something loose, or broke something in the locker. I'm not sure what all is in there, but when I called Randy's Ring and Pinion the guy told me on the phone it was more than likely a spring that had broke. He also told me if Trachtech did not warranty it he could rebuilt it for 150.00. Never the less, the locker would still lock up. If something popped loose in an ARB would it still lock up? Guess it depends on what it is. | ||
| Brian Anderson (Hans) Member Username: Hans Post Number: 59 Registered: 08-2003 |
What am I missing? At what point would a Detroit locker ever be not locked??? That's the whole point to a locking diff. is that it's always locked, unless it's one of the electrics or a limited slip version. Someone straighten this out... | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2002 |
"is that it's always locked" Always locked would be a spool. here is an example http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MSR%2D5S8831&view=257#largerim age A DL will release whenever one wheel needs to spin faster than the other while both tires are on a solid surface with a load. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 441 Registered: 02-2003 |
The ARB is actually a spool when locked. The Detroit has a ratchet mechanism which releases the wheel that needs to turn slower, i.e. the inside wheel on a turn - this is where the clicking noise sometimes heard is coming from. Think of what happens when you use a socket and a ratchet to tigthen a bolt, it is locked when you tighten, and releases when you back up the handle. Same principle is at work in the Detroit. - Axel | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1114 Registered: 02-2003 |
if something breaks badly enough it will not work any longer. this is what is proposed and that is how a detroit can be unlocked. forget about if it's "locked" or not. the simple fact is with the detroit both wheels are always getting power. even around bends. the clicking sound is the detroit allowing one wheel to travel faster than the other whilst still giving it power. how it works in reverse is still mystery to me. rd | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Senior Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 279 Registered: 02-2002 |
Axel, not to split hairs, but the Detroit allows the outside wheel / axle to spin faster than the inside wheel. Both axles will move at least as fast as the ring gear/carrier. When the outside slows back down, the Detroit will lock it back up, which causes the clunk sometimes. | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 107 Registered: 07-2003 |
"how it works in reverse is still mystery to me. " http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/128_9702_lock/index1.html Maybe this will make a little more sence. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1096 Registered: 09-2002 |
it works exactly the same in reverse, Rob. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1116 Registered: 02-2003 |
naturally rd |
