New Proposed Rules for Gallery Section

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Author Message   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 06:51 pm:    OK all, I may be way out of line here, but I have been talking to an unnamed member of the DWeb crew about changing the rules for posting photos to the gallery. There are a lot of shots in there that are a waste of hard disk space, bandwidth, and viewers time to look at. We agreed to open this up for discussion on this board so voice your opinion now! Here are some rules I thought would be good: Ground rules: 1) If you send a pic of your rig there is no pavement allowed in the picture. Ever. 2) There can be pics of paved surfaces when showing parts that you have made, modified, or have broken in the course of wheeling. No pics of ARB bumpers in parking lots unless bent or broken. Ever. 3) If your pics show something other than your rig make sure it is relevant: Guns, beer, parts, tools, garages, outdoor shots, recent hunting kills, and expedition equipment are all examples of acceptable items. 4) Pictures must be of high quality and sent in 640 x 480 size and of less than 100K. 5) They must be in focus and be of an interesting subject. If they are boring they will be rejected. OK - flame, pine, or agree! Curtis   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 07:12 pm:    i think you need to get a cable modem/dsl :0) i love looking at real life photo's including things other than the offroading pic's. actually i've grown boared with most of the wheeling picks and usually only look at the nice scenery ones or the pic's wtih people in them so i can see who i've been chatting with over hte years -rd guilty of sending in out of focus, poor resolution photo's over 100k and of people or things no one can appreciate.   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 07:24 pm:    Curtis and Unnamed, I agree, but......... Why not flush out the photo gallery every 90 days? That way the material will be from current events, new mods, or trip reports from fellow dwebbers. I would not lose sleep over you flushing the pics of the dirt road safari. By the time 90 days is up, there is probably another event or something new to share. There are enough private club websites out there in the WWW that store event photos from years past. Different types of photos are interesting to different types of people. My 4 cents   niall forbes (Forbesn) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 07:36 pm:    Given #2 and #3, I don't see how anything but #4 could be enforced. All the other criteria are extrememly subjective. Example, I'm sure that at least 90% of the people here spend 90% of their time driving on pavement. Therefore pics of Rovers in parking lots or whatever are as relevant as guns or beer or garages. The only change I'd like to see is the ability to clikc a "next pic" button or something. It's a pain to click on one. then hit back, then click on the next, etc etc. I have dsl so I don't care about image size, except when they're too small.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 07:43 pm:    hehe I agree on the pavement stuff & clear 640x480's, but I think we need to expand a bit on 3) If your pics show something other than your rig make sure it is relevant: Guns, beer, parts, tools, garages, outdoor shots, recent hunting kills, and expedition equipment are all examples of acceptable items. additions to include: -random off-road urination shots -Rob's dead horse -my foot -chicks hey...we're back where we started....wasting bandwith! GO DISCOWEB! P.S. death to the forklift shots   niall forbes (Forbesn) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 08:50 pm:    Also, pics of that little sherrif dude (http://www.discoweb.org/hitr2002/jeff/DSCN1951.jpg) are too cool. Don't outlaw those!!   Craig M. Highland (Shortbus) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 08:56 pm:    You mean pics like this Curits? Craig   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 09:31 pm:    Taste is like your ass, it's divided. Disk space on the server is not really an issue, and just don't click on thumbnails that look boring. Others may like them. I like to see different types of pictures, not just the "drivers side up on a rock with your head out the window" type pictures...   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 09:39 pm:    And don't legitimize this discussion by unname-dropping, Curtis. I know who you talked to (not me) and the synopsis of what was said about your proposed picture rules was: "Ok, go ahead and post something about it, and see what people's feelings on it is." I for one am against it. I don't want to deny anybody a gallery on DiscoWeb just because they don't take their truck off road. A good picture of a shiny Disco in front of the Sydney opera house is just as interesting....   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 09:40 pm:    Damn thats a pretty red Bitch , but , he got ya Curtis.... I kinda dig all the different shots too..... I can remember when Heather and I were running every week end taking pics just so there was something on the fucking site so it gives us a different kind of apreciation for them. Ax knows this as well , our trucks took quite a beating in teh name of pics for this site in the beginning....lol Kyle   Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 10:46 pm:    I remembered when discoweb had not more than 20 names in the photo gallery. Those early Pine Barrens pics (Baby Camel Trophy) and Ho's Forklift pics of the Discoho are probably the inspiration for those "drivers side up on a rock with your head out the window" (LMAO) Those kinds of pics are one of the factors that made me consider the purchase of my 99D1... - so that one day I could also have the "drivers side up on a rock with your head out the window" kinda pics. (hehehe) So I say... If it ain't broke... Don't fix it! -glenn I don't think anyone mentioned the teeter-totter...   Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 10:50 pm:    Oh and BTW, I think I see pavement in this pic...   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 11:41 pm:    blue you just can't beat a dead horse... you have no idea how delighted i was to see this . http://www.expeditionexchange.com/hitrmv/19.jpg 20 days.. hehe rd   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 11:43 pm:    LOL - this was too much fun. Glenn got me though and got me cold. Craig is mistaken. That shot was done at night at our campsite and was not within 2 miles of pavement. If you look, you can see the tracks from where I backed up. hehe. Still - Glenn busted me cold in my tracks...and proved a good point to boot. I have to eat my own words now... I really do enjoy the gallery and most of the pix there. This whole conversation started out on a humorous note because of a particularly bad gallery that was posted. I was told that the truth would hurt. That being said, I will now crawl into a hole It is apparent that not all people see things through my eyes and that is probably for the best... I still think there are some good ideas that can come from this thread. Curtis   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 11:44 pm:    Axle, I was protecting a conversation that did not involve you. I really do not see how you can justify stating a synopsis of a conversation that you were not a part of and at the same time accuse me of legitimizing a discussion. Your synopsis was a legitimization in itself. To carry it one step further and tell me what I can or can't do is not only absurd but the epitome of hypocracy.   MTB Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 11:46 pm:    Rules get real you know how many cool pics we could lose out on. I was aspired by Bud's mallcrawling pic. I decided that is what I want to do. Travel across our great country and see who has the best mall to crawl. Now you don't to see my pics Curtis.Take a look at Bud's pic and tell us that aint cool. The urban jungle is the only way yo go.   Craig M. Highland (Shortbus) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 11:48 pm:    Funny, I just clicked the 'contact' button and didn't see Curtis' name on there... wonder why? D-web Admin- your work is appreciated by some... Don't change a thing Craig   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 12:15 am:    Craig, C'mon man. I know it is late, but jeez... I think DWeb is appreciated by all. I am not quite sure where you get and idea that I don't appreciate it. Keep in mind that I started this thread by saying: "I may be way out of line here..." and finishing with: "OK - flame, pine, or agree!". LOL. Suffice it to say I think I have been proven wrong. Seemed like a good idea at the time... Curtis (working dilligently to pull foot from mouth)   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 12:17 am:    MTB, That is a classic shot. I talk to Bud from time to time and he is a great guy. To deny us the pleasure of looking at his famous mall craling shot would be a shame... Curtis (still workin' on that foot)   Craig M. Highland (Shortbus) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 12:22 am:    Just a little razzing Curtis....no offense If it were up to me, there'd be nothin but RRC's with no less than 32's in the galleries.... but that's just it... It ain't up to me, or you etc... this is their site, and I think it suits rover owners of all degrees. fwiw- Craig btw- this belongs in 'Feedback'   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 12:27 am:    LOL. None taken. The site is actually perfect in its imperfection. If that makes any sense. You work wayyy too late... Curtis   Craig M. Highland (Shortbus) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 12:30 am:    Yes, but I sleep wayyyy too late also LOL! Craig   KJ Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 12:41 am:    Wow, Bud did that mall crawl bone stock! LOL! Now, Kyle mentioned a "fucking site", but I don't see a link for it anywhere..... Karen ;)   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 01:18 am:    5{'t suppose you saw the other dead horse? The one with the really big (at least now after 20 days) anus? My kid and I called that one "Hole in the Butt." It looks about the same level of decay as the other one you and I saw and photographed -- which means this one likely died about the same time. Just curious if you saw that horse as well too. And Curtis..... as far as your proposed rules... Even though you wheel and live in Utah, I suspect you are a closet democrat.   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 01:21 am:    That first line was supposed to have read: Rob: I don't suppose.....   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:15 am:    LOL. You don't know how funny that is. When we moved to Utah I felt the need to offset the...er...local popular vote. I still vote republican for anyone going to Washington, but the dems, libertarians, and everyone but the greens gets my vote on a local and state level. What this has anything to do with my proposed (and now recanted) rules I do not know Curtis   Ron Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 03:57 am:    "Bud did that mall crawl bone stock!" No way! That beast has steelies and 32s. Ron (it really does have steelies and 32s)   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 09:15 am:    You: Rules 1-5 Me: "Even though you wheel and live in Utah, I suspect you are a closet democrat." You: "What this has anything to do with my proposed (and now recanted) rules I do not know" Me: Perceived problem followed by a list of well-meaning rules deceptively simple, but in actuality requiring much judicial interpretation followed by legislative clarfication followed by the formation of a new organization to enforce said rules. I think the classic example is the story of Pinkerton: Almost 150 yrs. ago, President Lincoln found it necessary to hire a private investigator - Mr. Alan Pinkerton. Some say he was actually the beginning of the Secret Service. Whether he was or not, the fact is *SINCE* his hiring, federal police authority has grown to a large number of three-letter agencies -FBI, CIA, INS, IRS, DEA, ATF,BOP, DOD, etc. And now we have _FATASS_ since as you all have heard (effective 17 Feb., 2002) we have a new organization called the: "Federal Air Transportation Airport Security Service" So you see Curtis what your rules can not only lead to, but reveal about your innermost political convictions?   Greg Davis Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 09:41 am:    Besides, if asphalt (or in my case concrete) were not allowed, I wouldn't have a gallery. 90% of my shots are taken in my driveway. After looking at Bud's photo again, I realized that my shot from Uwharrie was identical, except I used a rock instead of the curb. Damn, I have got to change the way I live.   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 09:58 am:    Greg, Yours would have been protected under proposed and recanted rule #2 Curtis   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 10:12 am:    You: Rules 1-5 Me: "Even though you wheel and live in Utah, I suspect you are a closet democrat." You: "What this has anything to do with my proposed (and now recanted) rules I do not know" Me: Perceived problem followed by a list of well-meaning rules deceptively simple, but in actuality requiring much judicial interpretation followed by legislative clarfication followed by the formation of a new organization to enforce said rules. The classic example is the recently circulated story of Pinkerton: Almost 150 yrs. ago, President Lincoln found it necessary to hire a private investigator - Mr. Alan Pinkerton. Some say he was the beginning of the Secret Service. Whether he was or not, the fact is *SINCE* his hiring, federal police authority has grown to a large number of three-letter agencies -FBI, CIA, INS, IRS, DEA, ATF,BOP, DOD, etc. And now we have _FATASS_ since as you all have heard (effective 17 Feb., 2002) we have a new organization called the: "Federal Air Transportation Airport Security Service" You see Curtis what your rules can lead to, but also reveal about your innermost political convictions?   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 10:14 am:    Whupss -- double tap there. Sorry!   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 10:15 am:    Micheal... hehehe that horse that you took a picture of is the first one yes? i assume you've seen my picture. it's the one right before the steep part where you go up the hill. and then there is one kind of off to the right of the trail as you begin to crawl up the steep section. that one was missing the ass even when i saw it. i think my exact words were "i'm so hungry i could eat the ass out of a dead horse, but damn, seem's like someone beat me too it." anyway... for you to get that close is proof it didn't smell like what we had to deal with. bill probably told you what it smelled like two weeks earlier when he was there. it ranks as the worse smell ever for me and i dont think it will ever be beat. ;) rob   Chu Son Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 11:12 am:    You guys are cracking on Bud's curbside antics, but you know how cameras work. Adds about 50lbs to our butts, and makes obstacles look easy and small. chu   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 11:22 am:    Mike, We will have to tackle the political discussion later. You have a valid point. There is a legal term for it that I forget revolving around carrying a concept or idea to its extreme. I just saw you writeup and pix at EE. Very very cool shots. I guess that was what I was hoping for more of in my original post. Not all of your shots are of wheeling, but they are all interesting. As Ax said though...opinions on what is interesting are divided. Curtis   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 11:29 am:    Filibuster is the politcal term for beating a dead horse!   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 11:46 am:    "I was protecting a conversation that did not involve you. " I don't see it that way. If it involves DiscoWeb, it involves me. But that's not really important. I think we have gotten a pretty good feel for what people think of the galleries and any proposed rules.   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 12:18 pm:    I gotta come clean here: I agree with you Curtis. I like interesting pictures as much as you do -- and I do think a chunk of the galleries on DW could use a some serious internal pruning. Which is why I gave Angelita the camera on our trip -- she took nearly all those photographs on the EE site. Greg Hren took the ones with the both of us, and I shot about 10 of the balance. Her behind the lens is likely why they have a more interesting feel to them -- and less of the *yawn* truck up, truck down, truck sideways feel. That being said, your suggestion, like my pissed-off rant about Anon postings (even appropriatly posted in the *Feedback Section*) seems to have fallen on hard ears. MV   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 12:27 pm:    Axel, I think that you see this as important or you would not bring it up. If you don’t want feedback or suggestions then people won’t give them. It would seem that if you truly want an open board then you won’t try to belittle people whose opinion of DWeb might differ from yours….however poor that opinion may be. I think that every poster on this topic knew how to take the spirit of my post, but something I wrote really rubbed you’re the wrong way. It certainly was not meant to, and I was in no way trying to threaten something you have worked hard to make happen. My apologies if you think that was my intent. Curtis   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 01:51 pm:    I have no problem with feedback or suggestions, that is a good thing. What did rub me the wrong way last night, and in hindsight perhaps I was overreacting, was the opening of the first post: "...I have been talking to an unnamed member of the DWeb crew about changing the rules for posting photos to the gallery" That to me at least, implied that the proposed rules came with an endorsement from Ho, Kyle or myself, which was not the case. That is the nature of the internet, however. Sometimes posts are not read in the spirit they were written. There is no need to apologise for anything, there really was no harm done. And if you felt that I was belittleing you, I'll apologise as well.   Kyle Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:02 pm:    Well I dont apologise , and I aint hugging anyone. Although , if we threw out all those types of pics we would have to toss the whole damn Uwharie "Safari" section..... I have seen plenty of mall parking lots more intimidating then that... I do see that Gregs bumper didnt fall off from the trauma though... Kyle   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:22 pm:    Spoken like a true SMIB!   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:23 pm:    Damn!! Hugging?? Am I gay yet? I really want to be gay too.   Greg Davis Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 03:02 pm:    Damn Kyle, you're relentless, aren't you? Speaking of bumpers. I was witness to a $G rotation. A heavily modified RR (from RCH I think) was on the rocks at Rocky Mount, and was backing off a large rock to get a better run. As the front came off the rock, his front bumper hit the rock, and rotated a couple of inches back. There were several people around me, and we all said at almost the same time "Damn, $G roatation. Did you see that?" It was pretty interesting to see. To me, it wasn't THAT hard of a hit to cause it to move. Just trying to divert the heat from me since Kyle struck a match!   Kyle Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 03:16 pm:    What the hell did he hit the bumper on ? He run into another truck or something ? I sure as hell dont see any obstacles in thsoe pics.... Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 03:35 pm:    and greg, was it a unanimous amazement on that "rotation?"   Greg Davis Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 03:47 pm:    Well, we were actaully holding a rock up to the front of the Rangie to try and stage a photo, but I dropped the rock. I bent down to pick it up, and hit my head on the bottom of the bumper. This caused it to rotate up. Everyone around said that it was amazing.   Kyle Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 03:51 pm:    lol , now THAT makes some sense....... damn.... Por $G bumper... Kyle   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 04:34 pm:    Axel, No sweat. I am glad we cleared that up. Curtis   chrisvonc Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 06:42 pm:    LOL.. I like Robs first post in this thread.. "I think you need to get Cable/DSL" Chris von C   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 08:12 pm:    LOL - had it for over three years. I got lucky enough to be on two pilot plans in two states C   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 10:14 pm:    Curtis- I give a Rat's What you think of all our pictures out here-   KJ Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 10:47 pm:    ROTFLOL! PDM, did you just call Kyle A SMIB???? Karen, needs a head-spinning icon (G)   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 11:57 pm:    Craig...er..I mean Anon, get the hell back to work and quit screwing around with pix of your mama. Karen, I miss out on so many webonyms. What is an SMIB? Curtis   Craig M. Highland (Shortbus) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 12:13 am:    Easy Curtis- I gladly post my name with all my flames Craig   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 12:54 am:    Watch that finger pal If it wasn't you then consider it a compliment based on the creativity of the post. I figured you would quickly take credit. Since it is not then I will give credit to Anon for his use of pictures since the person is obviously bordering on illiterate.   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:45 am:    KJ, Hopefully, I didn't offend anyone! I mean the proverbial match was lit, was it not? Yes I used the acronym SMIB. I lived in Maryland for 5 years while working aircraft flight test. In that time I got to experience the wonders of crab, 10 oz budwiesers, and yes SMIB's; southern maryland inbred that is. Enough of this crap, I am packing up and heading to Assateague Island, MD for three days of camping and beer drinking. I figure it's a three hour drive from Philly.   Horness Spencer (Horness) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:13 am:    How about a maximum of 10 (for example) pics per person. Now if someone wants 10 pics of their truck parked on the drive, that's up to them. If they want to add some off-road pics, then they'll have to nominate some to take off. That way, we keep the freedom, and up the quality (hopefully) of the content. Just a thought. HRNESS   gp (Garrett) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:26 am:    oh it may take longer Paul if one of those SMIB's gets a hold of you. you know......like Kyle. he likes to have his hair brushed and braided ya know!! i mean he was thinking of going, but there were no elec. hookups there for his hair dryer. just had to.....sorry kyle.....busting on my Uhwarrie pics like that. lol. well it's gonna take me at least 5 hours, so have a decent fire there for me.   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:42 am:    Well I cant argue the SMIB comment. There are inbred a plenty and thats a fact. My only saving grace is that my family is not from here. And Garret , looks like I would have no problem getting up enough speed on the trails down there to let the wind come through the Disco and dry my hair just fine. I am even betting you could go fast enough so that no one could make out those faggety white letters out on your Disco Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:52 am:    i just hope you don't use that Herbal Essence stuff and make those funny noises like on the commercial. and bustin' on my white T letters? that's just harsh. i mean i even took the time to wash the white part on my letters the other day. maybe some Crest white strips would help!! ps: i'm a 10th generation PA boy.......i think i am a CPIB.   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 10:31 am:    Garrett, The Pig is gassed up and loaded and I picked up a case of Sierra Nevada Pala ale. Bring Lager and I will have fire.   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 10:35 am:    Hmmm , so I am picturing the two of you snuggled up around a cozy camp fire... He gets a little nervous Paul , you gotta watch him.... Kyle   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 10:51 am:    Put it and the lotion away Kyle............. I'm Outta here!   gp (Garrett) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:30 am:    it is true. i just might get a little giggly when i get there. especially since i got 32 oz. bottles of lager. he will be looking damn sweet by 10 tonight.   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:35 am:    You boys have got some Beer issues..... All of you are fairly young ? Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:44 am:    a compliment indeed. why yes i am young!! 31 and still kickin'. never heard of a bad beer issue. well unless you are talking Bud. i better get going.....paul man has a 3 hour head start and god knows what he will do to those ponies at Assateague when he gets there. ugh. "that must be a BOY pony!"   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:46 am:    Rob and MV are the ones ya gotta watch around the horses.... Whats with the beach driving down there now ? I thought they were closing that shit ? Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:59 am:    i don't know. as far as i know it is open. bill b. would know better than i. i'm just glad they allow alcohol.   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 12:32 pm:    i've always wanted to punch a horse in the shoulder. i doubt it would hurt them and i think like it would feel really good. i guess i had my chance out west and forgot. rd   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 01:06 pm:    Beach is still open on MD and VA sides until plover nesting season at which time they restrict it. This year the MD back trail is open also (officially) - hasn't been for a few years. No great driving or anything - this is more of a family/social club event with games for kids (and adults). Bill   Anonymous Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:05 pm:    Watch it Kyle.... Don't drag me in this -- that jus' ain' right. Otherwise I am a gonna have to pull out the big guns and level you. MV   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:07 pm:    Hmmm , well pull them irons..... You aint gonna find any pics I have taken of a horses ass....lol Kyle   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:09 pm:    rob, "i guess i had my chance out west and forgot." LOL - probably a good thing too. That glue factory probably smelled bad enough without pissing it off. I hear angry dead horse stank is pretty bad   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:18 pm:    "I hear angry dead horse stank is pretty bad" It is. Which is why you can't beat a dead horse.   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:20 pm:    More thought should actually be put into the night/day that the horses did get out and what happened. I know the saying "If a tree falls in the woods and there is no one around , does it make a sound" but there had to be some suffering there for the two poor bastards..... However it was that the end came...The odds of someone being there when it occured are pretty slim but think about it for a moment. How long did they stay alive before dying ? What killed em ? How would you feel out there in that same situation alone ? Freaky shit....... Kyle   Anonymous Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 03:00 pm:    Actually, Kyle, Bill Burke mentioned all those very same sentiments when we saw the horse(s) Amazing how two great four wheelers think alike in their sensitivity to the agonies of life in the wilds. He got us wondering if the horse broke its leg and died an agonizing death by thirst, or if someone was riding it, fell, leg broke, then was shot. MV Thanks for bringing that point out.   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 03:31 pm:    i think they were murdered. the fact that there were two dead within 100 yards is difficult to comprehend to me. the hill wasn't so steep a horse couldn't do it. and they are pretty smart animals... you can see it has shoes on in MV's pic... they wern't wild. or did they run away, and the shoes cause them to slip and fall down the rocks.. i dont know. the smell was an interesting experience, and no matter how fucked in the head i might be, i was not crazy enough to get out and pose next to the creature with a fork and knife... though i wish i had in retrospect, because it would have made a memorable photo. hell, i couln't even stop driving... i was dryheaving and that's no joke. got knows how ax stood down there with his video camera. rd   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 03:49 pm:    Well , the two just being there together should say something to you. Its very possible that one got injured and layed there dying and the other just wouldnt leave its side , in turn killing itself.... Anything short of gun shot is pretty terrible to think of...... Much worse then any smell...... Kyle   Heather Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 04:15 pm:    poor horsies   Kim S (Roverine) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 04:17 pm:    It is sad - I didn't realize that one horse had shoes on either. Not that it would make any difference about the suffering. When we were offroad in Neveda, (Feb.) I saw a lot of wild asses (besides the ones I was with). They were curious about us, like "what the hell you doing here?" That is sad & strange about those horses. I don't know what it's like now, but the wild horses used to get shot a lot (from helicopters, no less). When I was a young girl, my friends and I did some car washes, horse shows, and raffles to raise money for the wild mustangs. Kyle, your description of what possibly happened with the one horse staying with the other till it died - I haven't felt this bad since I saw Bambi looking for his mother ... Kim   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 04:36 pm:    There was a gate at the top of the hill past the spot where the horses were. It had a sign on it, saying "Please keep the gate closed, so the horses don't get out" The gate was closed when we got there, and we closed it behind us after passing through, but my guess as to what happened is that someone else may have left the gate open. The horses went through, slid on the hill, got injured and died. Allthoug rubber tires gets good traction on slickrock, horseshoes don't. That's actually why slickrock is called just that, the name goes back to when people travelled on horseback and in wagons. Regardless of what happened, it was a horrible way to die, from the looks of the scene, it did not happen quick.   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 04:47 pm:    This conversation has rapidly taken a sad tone. Kim brings up something that we are dealing with quite a bit in Utah. The Greens have been making big land grabs here. Much of their intent was to chase away four wheelers and mineral interests. In order to do both, they have had to chase out much of the commercial use of BLM, National Forrest, and other public lands. A big impact has been felt on the ranchers in southern Utah that use said land for raising livestock. Because of the inherent difficulty of herding and transporting free range livestock, they simply kill them or abandon them. The helicopter killings are no joke and done on a regular basis. The charities that Kim speaks of are more in reference to the Mustang horses in Nevada that were so publicized a couple of years ago. Now they are going after livestock that are bred. I don’t think that much can be done about it. Much of the livestock is branded and technically owned by somebody. I cannot say that is what happened to these horses, but I bet this is it. The truly sad part about it is that the Greenies still keep bitching and complaining about the livestock on certain “protected” lands. Go figure. Who are they saving this land for? Future generations? Gimme a break. They are taking our own land from us and killing off the fruits of the land in the process. Shouldn’t have got me started. Sad story. Curtis   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 05:24 pm:    Curtis, I 'm one of those greens you talk about and I have to say that just because we've grazed cows there doesn't mean it's a good thing. And as far as saving it for future generations and you not buying that well you're a lost cause then. Why is it that we insist on wrecking every last piece of land we own? I went hiking after I left the gang. I drove the other side of the hole in the rock trail, I got out and hiked 20 miles thru coyote gulch. It starts out as a dry creek bed, then a little water appears and tree's then the fucking cows. These goddamn animals shit all thru this creek, poisoning it so badly there was a grease slick on it and I was afraid to put my shoes in it. It stunk like chemicals and was ruining the landscape. Eventually you come to a gate where the don’t let the cows continue (which I counted about 6 both hiking in and out) Now let's look at this from a corporate prospective. BLM owns the land, which is essentially the govt. They then lease the land to ranchers who then make money buy letting cattle graze on the BLM property. If the gov't leased me land and there was a creek on the property and my company was polluting the water then my ass would be shut down, right quick too. Now, as far as I see it these ranchers are responsible for the shit ridden cheek and its pollutants. They should not be allowed let cattle craze if they are going to result in severe poisoning of the water and area. and to top it off it were a measly 6 fucking cows that ruined 5 miles of creek bed and 25 miles of water (when it reached the Escalante river). I was so inspired over the sight of this that I am actively pursuing having the area closed for ranchers unless they can keep the pollution from there animals don’t to an acceptable level. so don't even get me started on that land out there... it's mine as much as it is yours, and I’m willing t fight over it for a long time... are you? and Ax, did it specifically say horses? if so that changes everything. rd   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 05:41 pm:    Rob , shuddup........ All I am saying is that it seems very few put thought into what they see beyond what the imediate senses tell them. You being the self proclaimed "Greenie" would have put a little more thought into that whole scene , or so I would think. Yeah , they are just animals. But thats a harsh death. You seem to miss alot of that because you were only there to see the stillness of death and not the struggle for life.... If that was due to someone leaving that gate open I truely hope the same fate finds them some day...... Maybe Rob will post pics of the corpses.... Kyle   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 05:58 pm:    i in no way feel those animals deserve to die especially to starve with a broken leg in the desert, etc.. and i'm not saying that area was polluted, i saw the creek where they hung out at and i didn't see any problems. my point was just that there are good reasons to close some lands to animals and humans, and just "let it be" rob "imagine" davison   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 06:03 pm:    Rob, Damn right I am willing to fight over it. It is not that I don’t sympathize with you Rob. It is simply that I look at it from a different perspective. I live the battle almost every day. While this land is as much yours as mine, it is in my back yard. This may give me a different perspective because I am on the front lines. Still – in many ways we are trying to accomplish the same thing – protect the land. The problem is that the battle is evenly divided. The way the players have drawn the lines, you have to pick a side. Unfortunately, it is either “most can access it” or “no one can access it”. If you look, there is no in between. SUWA (Southern Utah Wilderness Association) and the Sierra Club do not draw a line at commercial interests and ranchers. It goes all the way down to only being able to walk through that land. This means that you cannot drive on the land and no wheelin’. Horses, cattle, buffalo, elk and many other animals have been a part of the West for much longer than you or I. They are not there to make sure your water smells the way you like it or looks the way you want. Also – just because water may carry feces does not mean it is polluted. It just means you cannot drink it. The feces are carrying nutrients downstream and providing for much more life than would otherwise be there. I get deer and elk in my yard all winter when they come down from the mountains. It looks cool at first, but they shit all over the place and make a smelly mess all over my yard. Sure makes for some green grass this time of year though Furthermore, I would look seriously into the statement that “land is saved for future generations” in the way most green activists use it. If you look into Wilderness philosophy, the whole idea is to lock away the land from any use. OK – then – until when? Do you actually think this land is going to go into a bank to be used at some future time? By who? The answers are forever and no one. How can my children possibly enjoy land they cannot access? It sounds good on the surface, but below it is pure BS. I am all for protecting the land. Just not the way they want to do it. Like you said though – it is your land. Lock it away and you will not be able to see it though. Curtis   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 06:22 pm:    yes,, i very much just want to know that somewhere there places we havent been and arent going to be violated, true wilderness. same reason i am against the drilling in alaska. becasue it was specifiaclly set aside , just to be left alone and not fucked with. now, of all places they want to go and mame the one place we already set off limit's to is the one they choose. i can see you are reasonable woman, curtis, so i think we need to agree to a "drink off" who ever can handle more alcohol wins i'm going to go start practicing here in a little while, as it's been a rough week for me. -rd oh and that creek was polluted.... trust me.   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 06:31 pm:    oh... here is a picture of two of the culprits. i always thought only boy cows have horns, what do you think?   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 06:36 pm:    Rob, I am not touching the Alaska drilling. I simply do not have enough information to consider all sides. I will agree to the drink off though. They are usually fun and only do damage to internal real estate Sorry to hear about the rough week – hope it gets better. If the creek was truly polluted then it would have likely been from old drilling crap or chemical dumping. Both are bad stuff. I will admit that I am not too keen on three things in Utah: nuclear waste storage, irresponsible drilling surveys, and chemical weapons disposal. I am a member of an organization that opposes the first and last of these:F.E.A.R. I just can't remeber what the acronym stands for Curtis   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 06:58 pm:    Well , Ron is no "Greenie" , nor is anyone else I know that drives a car , lives in a house and gos to work like the rest of us. We are all part of a lethal Bacteria and we are all consuming more then we should at a rate that the host cannot handle. Also , I would like to point out that in my opinion , any real hard core "Greenie" taht has any brains , well , they wouldnt make a claim to the land at all. It aint ours , never was !! We have a long lease at best that we are fucking up every single day that we breathe. Our penalty for that will be extinction in the end. So dont try and float that "Greenie" bullshit past me... A turd is a turd... Kyle   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:05 pm:    Damn Kyle – I couldn’t have said it better   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:09 pm:    And that should have been "Rob" not "Ron".... dont want poor Ron getting any misdirected shit. I give him enough allready Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:16 pm:    move to mars?   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:17 pm:    Rob , if you want a "Cause" , why dont you go after "Stupidity" you are in a target rich enviroment and you could really affecct some change... Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:18 pm:    still think move to mars...   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:25 pm:    Well no Ho , the "Greenies" wouldnt do that. That is , unless their ass was needing a fucking place to stay. Then (Just like the Land in ALaska( their happy asses would be moving in at the speed of fucking light. Man dont get me started on the fucking "Greenies" dumb sons a bitches hold protests carry signs made of paper and wood from raped forrests..... Cracks me up.... As I said , target stupidity and you get em all in one shot... Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:30 pm:    but in mars the'd be all happy.   Jake Hartley (Jake) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:51 pm:    Rob: You are a dweeb. A couple of things about animals and such. 1. All bovines (cows) have horns; the males have balls and the girls have udders 2. technically, you can't "murder" an animal. It does not have the same rights as a human. Murder is a legal term pertaining to homo sapiens. 3. The part of ANWR that they want to drill in is less than 1/10 of the land there. By the way, have you ever been to Alaska? I lived there and the pipeline has been good for wildlife. Caribou are attracted to it during breeding season and the herd has increased since its inception. Plus people in Alaska WANT the drilling, its called making a living. I am beginning to wonder why you even have a Discovery at all. You seem to be hyper critical in general to the world of off-roading and "rednecks" in pick-ups.I imagine that you are an East Coast city boy who fell for all that socialist evironmental shit they threw at you in college. I bet you are pretty pissed at all the damage the Camel Trophy participants did to all those rain forests too. Why don't you get a Geo Metro or one of those hybrid cars and stay out of the woods.   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:58 pm:    No Jake , any car at all is against the principles oof the "Greenie" its made of steel that something was raped to get.. Kyle   Jake Hartley (Jake) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:01 pm:    You really wonder where these people get their f***ked up way of thinking....   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:08 pm:    mars...   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:46 pm:    venus....   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:51 pm:    pluto...   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:57 pm:    Everyone needs to feel "Signifigant" Jake. Everyone needs a crusade. Its easy to close everything when you never leave your arm chair... Doesnt really matter either way.... The really really funny thing is , the 4 wheeler that pays attention and has some brains knows a hell of alot more about whats going on "Out there" then half of these dumb ass "Greenies".... Kyle   prote Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 09:50 pm:    k-pax   Kim S (Roverine) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 10:26 pm:    Planets: you forgot "yer-anus" Kim   Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 10:36 pm:    Ho, we can go to the moon and do some virtual off-roading and eat all the cheese...   Westerner Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 10:37 pm:    Oh Great another fucking eastern asshole trying to set the tone of western politics. STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THE WEST and live in your over populated east.   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:05 pm:    Oh great another fucking westerner who lives on stolen land as if it is his own, and who reduces complicated issues to scatalogical soundbites vis a vis capital letters. Why don't you crawl back into your genepool on the otherside of the Atlantic?   Kim S (Roverine) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:47 pm:    Oh Michael, ... darlin', I can see where you're coming from ... (I'm not the westerner post either) Believe it or not, my maternal Grandpa was more than 3/4 Indian, i.e. Native American (on the Southeast coast, BTW). Really. You should see my mama and what my nose looked like before I broke it twice. I never claim to be a Native American, for me that's just plain stupid. I mean, look at me?! As fair skinned and freckled as they get ... And to think I married a 3rd generation New Mexican (Santa Fe, early 1900's) and to add insult to injury, his Grandad met his Grandma there when he rode out as a Texas Ranger. Anyway, at his funeral last year in Santa Fe, it was standing room only. ... People of ALL races ... Can't solve the world's problems tonight (unfortunately). Too much fighting over land. That's the way it will always be ... Kim   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:52 pm:    hmm, i was thinking sending all the greenies to mars, and we could all party here. now, i wonder if the westener is talking about east coast or far east coast. LOL   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 12:22 am:    Mike, I read and re-read Westerners post and did not see any telltale indicators that of race, although Ho picked up on a subtlety that I first missed. Kim, "and to add insult to injury, his Grandad met his Grandma there when he rode out as a Texas Ranger." Waaaaiiiit a minute here. What is so bad about this? Do you have something against Texans? Curtis   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 12:42 am:    You know, Ho, if you send the greenies to red Mars, it will always be Christmas there. Kim: Southeast Coast? So what you got? Lumbee? I should have known from ICS! Yeah, Kim, I do know what you mean: I got a young friend here who many other males would call a blond babe -- and her tribe on her Mother's side is Mowhawk. Enrolled too. She would never call herself Indian -- blond, built, but she is. Curtis: WTF??? look at the little pissant's content: "Me here: You go." Sorry dude, but that is the White Man song of entitlement for the past 500 years. As far as Texans of the past go, check your history. Texans were *quite* active at scalping Southwest Indians -- Adults and children -- for the bounty offered by the Feds. Sadly, the bounty offered for scalps of Apache men and boys proved too hard to get -- so those clever Texans turned to scalping the less aggressive pueblo folks. Seems the Feds could not tell the difference between a Pueblo scalp or an Apache scalp. When the scalp business shriveled, some Texans fell in league with some Mexicans, and viola, a thriving slave trade developed funneling Publo Indians south of the border! Got nothing against Texans or Mexicans or New Mexicans or Koreans or Westerners - just know your past, your peoples, and your history. Aint none of us clean. None of us. And what the hell were we talking about anyways???   Kim S (Roverine) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 12:49 am:    LOL!! I'm with Ho on this as well (I still say send them to "yer-anus"). Curtis, that's just my point ... who TF cares ... Okay, I am a Humanoid, Homosapien, (although there are some that may argue this point) ... Now, how the hell are we gonna live together on this planet? LOL ... Kim I'm hoping the 'Mother Ship Of Stupid' comes down to scoop them all up (and dosen't take me with them)   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 12:50 am:    we were talking about picture posting rules. anybody got more? pics that is.   KJ Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 01:06 am:    I blame Curtis, he started this thread! (G) I'm too tired and cranky to say much, but as the resident equestrian professional here, trust me when I tell you, a horse will NOT stay with another horse at it's own peril. I have no clue where this dead horse thing was seen, or anything else about it, but unless both horses were non-ambulatory, any able-bodied horse would have wandered off on it's own. Horses don't act like the Disney movies would suggest. Karen, off to bed   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 01:06 am:    I submit Roverville at night! Which breaks all of Curtis' rules!   Kim S (Roverine) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 01:28 am:    Hey KJ! (you better not be up this late your time, if you are, I know it's from hard work with your lovely beasts). ... About the horses' and them Disney animals ... (but don't look, it's still sad, and there's enough of that horsecrap going on in this world). I really need/want to ride a horse. Kim at a full blown gallop ... no, a dead run ... I need to call some friends ...   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 01:28 am:    Ho - I think Kim has a picture of Uranus Kim - On the Texas thing: I'm just funnin' with ya. When people ask what race I am I always say "Texan" Mike - I am from Texas and I have never scalped anyone or participated in slave trading. In no way was I trying to vindicate the actions of any Texan that ever comitted a crime. This would include Scalpers, Slave Traders, LBJ, Anna Nicole Smith, or David Koresh   Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 01:32 am:      Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 02:22 am:    ok, people... argue my point on govt land /creeks... i have seen the damage i don't like it. i am legally going to try to do what i think is right. life is all about perception. glad to fire up a good thread on discoweb. why do i drive a disco some of you ask? aramageddon evacuation. iv'e been drinking as promised above so forgive the spelling. and to the jack ass that wanted to remind me about the alaskan drilling... 1/10th is too much, you don't get it. i don't need to convince you it's wrong , just the people in congress, and i've helped to do that once. ahhhhhhhhh success..... rob btw ho, you know mars is only a few miles from pittsburgh, do a search on yahoo maps or something, you'll see   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 02:52 am:    rob, "why do i drive a disco some of you ask? aramageddon evacuation." If he above statement is true then what the hell were you doing in Southern Utah with the dead horse? Training to get over broken bridges and practicing on Mojave Sandstone? Why would you be so concerned about drilling in Alaska or seeing those scary cows in Utah if you are in preparation for Armageddon? Kyle pegged you dead on. If you don't want drilling in Alaska, why don't you at least TRY the greenie solution: less consumption? Lets get this straight: (1) you drive around in a vehicle that gets criminal mileage, and (2) you think the world is about to blow up and you need to save yourself, and (3) you are a green who is out to save the world from the evils of humankind I mean, jeez Rob. Don't those statements seem to conflict with each other? What I am hearing is that you like your pleasures and feel guilty about the impact you know you have on the world, but you justify this by thinking you are a green. You are not. Actions speak a lot louder than words.   Kyle Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 08:06 am:    Karen , the one thought I had about the horses is that the gate was left open and they managed to get down that shelf (You cant see it in the pics) but then did some slip sliding attempting to get back up to where they knew food and water was and got frightened of the ledge road. Since they appear to be somewhat domesticated (meaning they have been "Trained" on where to eat and drink over time)they just hung out at the bottom of the ledge not knowing where else to go. The shoes interested me be cause shoes require a little maintenance , meaning that someone must tend to them frequently and their behavior I am sure has become somewhat reliant upon that and therefore they wouldnt freestyle like a wild creature would.I havnt spent much time around Horses but Animals can be quite thick headed when it comes to trained behavior , hell , People too...... Rob , I see you have been called on all this "Greenie" crap. Also , dont tell me about congress and affecting change. The only trips you have made to DC was chasing a piece of ass. May I add that you were fucking up our Ozone layer and burning precious resources driving that Disco down to DC just for a chick ? Seems to me a true "Greenie" would be more sensitive to such waste.... Infact , that trip burns enough fuel that I think they should name the first wells in Alasaka after you..... Also ? This Congress ? Your whole government ? They use electricity ? And jet Fuel ? All sorts of evils going on there.... Seems to me that any true "Greenie" would detach himself from that... Are we done with the "Greenie" thing or should I continue ? Kyle   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 11:39 am:    Ok, here's some thing to think about.. Isn't Rob the same person that wants to drive his Disco to NOME Alaska.. Since there is no road that can take you all the way there how much "prestine" forrest you planning on blazing through? Not to mention that gas you are going to burn up on that trip. Go sell the Disco and get a mountain bike. Oh, wait, they had to strip mine for the metal, so then get some shoes.. Oh wait they had to pollute water as part of their rubber sole manufacturing process.. Every thing that you wear, eat, drive, ride, or live in has caused some damage some where.. So unless you are running around naked, sleeping under the stars with no shelter, and eating berries you have no room to talk about anything as you are just as bad as the rest of us.. You want to save the planet? Kill all the people on it. You want to fight for the planet then go to the goverment and ask them to thin the population of people on it.. Tell them that they can start with you.. Bet that will go over well..