| Author | Message | ||
     Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 886 Registered: 02-2002 |
Oki I went to grease the drive shafts again and the front u-joint of the front drive shaft has a hole right through the grease fitting (I can stick an pin through and hit the grease). Its a perfectly round hole. Its as if the fitting was sheared off some how, but I can't imagine how. I have never removed the fitting, only applied grease through it. Any thoughts on this? Do you think its replaceable under warrantee? I mean there could be all kinds of mud and crap in there now.... Dean   | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1160 Registered: 02-2002 |
Dean - sometimes a rock or stick oranything will jam betwween the cross of the joint and snap off the zerk. If it still warranty - sure - I'd try that! If not - I went with the spicer joints that are end lubed (ie: through the cap) - just as delicate, but easier to get to to grease and also easier to replace if snapped off. Not to mention a better u-joint. Bill | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 361 Registered: 11-2002 |
just replace the joint...no telling what the joints condition is now. I agree with Bill on the end cap style cap, just make sure when you grease them that you make sure you have grease comming out at all 4 seals. this can take alot longer then with a normal Zerk because the cap style uses a needle style grease fitting and they put out grease at a slower rate. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 890 Registered: 02-2002 |
Bill - I'll try the dealer, see if they'll do it under warrantee. Maybe they'll give me the old one to play with.... Also where do you get the greasable joints you mention? Thom - so grease is supposed to push out from all 4 of the seals, around the inside of the U? On the other joint it seemed to only want to come out at one point, not all 4. This was the rear shaft. Any recommendations? Thanks Dean | ||
| Sergei Rodionov (Uzbad) Member Username: Uzbad Post Number: 118 Registered: 08-2003 |
Keep pushing it.. If it aint going off from all of them, joint is about to be very dead. Idea is to keep pumping grease in, till it appears from all, and untill its fresh, not old dirty one (and if it was serviced like mine then there might be no old one at all...  () | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 364 Registered: 11-2002 |
yes it should come out on all sides, if it dosent you really dont know if it has reached all 4 caps.grease also acts a both a centering force and shock absorber in u-joints...the more the better. just amke sure to wipe the excess off or it will get slung everywhere. sometimes you need to rotate the shaft ,other times pushing the one seal back down and holding it while you pump the gun will do it. U-joints are cleaned by pumping grease through them. the grease picks up and carries debris and water out of the joint as it is pumped through. you can get spicer joints at NAPA...they may need to order them . | ||
| Pete Stefano (Pete_s) Member Username: Pete_s Post Number: 85 Registered: 02-2003 |
Does anyone know the part number for the spicer joints at NAPA? I need to got some as well. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 891 Registered: 02-2002 |
Thom, Ok thanks. One more thing - if I remove a circlip and end cap, will things start falling out of there? I've never seen inside one of these. | ||
| Aaron Owens (Aaronowens) Member Username: Aaronowens Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dean, there are some pretty small roller bearings in there that you have to keep track of. Usually the grease will hold them in place but not always. Aaron | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1162 Registered: 02-2002 |
Dean, I can post the spicer number later. Go to specific driveline shop and they'll have them on the shelf (not listed for a Rover of course!). They are much more expensive than a cheapee generic UJ. As far as dismantling goes - you'll need to remove circlips and then press the joint out with a vise - use one socket small enough to go inside the cap and one large enough to go outside and then put that whole mess in the vice and you'll force the cap out one side. Reverse to do other side. As per above - lots of little needle bearings in there to watch for. Bill | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1163 Registered: 02-2002 |
Dean, I can post the spicer number later. Go to specific driveline shop and they'll have them on the shelf (not listed for a Rover of course!). They are much more expensive than a cheapee generic UJ. As far as dismantling goes - you'll need to remove circlips and then press the joint out with a vise or shop press - use one socket small enough to go inside the cap and one large enough to go outside and then put that whole mess in the vice/press and you'll force the cap out one side. Reverse to do other side. As per above - lots of little needle bearings in there to watch for. Bill | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 892 Registered: 02-2002 |
Bill Is it possible to get the cap off without dismantling completely? You see if I can get the cap of without all falling out, then I might be able to fix a grease fitting in it, put an exit on the other 3 sides and its all done right? Dean | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 366 Registered: 11-2002 |
Choosing U-joints When it comes to universal joints of a given size or series, there are 2 decisions to make - which brand to choose, and which style (permanently sealed or re lubable) The first decision is simple in my opinion. Spicer Life Series no question. I believe they are simply the best. Why? I'll let them explain it (below): Why should you use Spicer U-joints? According to Spicer: Spicer has been the leader in cardan universal joint technology since 1904, when Clarence Spicer patented the first practical application of a universal joint to replace the chain drives of his day. Since that time, we have refined our universal joints with improved forging technology, metallurgical studies, hardening processes and sealing capabilities to ensure greater durability and low maintenance. Spicer engineers research and implement advanced hot and cold metal forming processes for journal crosses, heat treating methods for case hardening bearing cups, finite element analysis and three-dimensional modeling to understand and control stress points, and perform myriad laboratory and application tests to validate joint performance. We sweat the details so all of our cardan joints provide you with longer, trouble-free service. There are 2 different models to choose from - the Spicer Time-Tempered™ and the Spicer Life™. Both are described below. As you will see, the only choice for us is the Spicer Life™ series. Spicer Time-Tempered™ Replacement Cardan Universal Joints* This OE-acceptable replacement u-joint kit has a hot-forged steel journal cross that is heat treated and through drilled for grease channels. It is equipped with a grease fitting for ease of re lubrication. Journal cross trunnions are hardened for long life, and the faces are grooved to ensure consistent lubrication of the needle roller bearings. The Spicer Time-Tempered replacement cardan u-joint's distinctive blue rubber seals provide grease retention within the bearing assembly while protecting it from contaminants and are designed to purge grease upon re lubrication. Bearing cups are carbonitrided and uniformly case hardened for higher strength, then machined to a higher tolerance for improved fit and driveshaft balance. This machining process and its resulting higher tolerances add a level of quality, putting this u-joint a step above average over-the-counter replacement kits. *Spicer Time-Tempered universal joint kits should NOT be used in high-performance vehicles, motor sport applications or vehicles frequently used in severe off-road conditions. Spicer Life™ Original Equipment (OE) Cardan Universal Joints The newest cardan universal joint in the Spicer product line offers advanced design features for longer life and superior performance. Bearing cups are case hardened through a carburizing heat treat process, and the inside diameter and thrust washer surface are machined to the highest tolerances of all Spicer bearing assemblies. The journal cross is cold-formed for added strength, and trunnions are machined to give the best possible surface for the needle roller bearings. Spicer Life OE cardan universal joints stand above the rest for the tough, worry-free performance demanded by today's discriminating consumer and are the preferred choice of many automotive design engineers for passenger cars, pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles. They also have proven performance and are used extensively by professional motor sport teams in IROC, NASCAR and NHRA. Spicer Life Series award winning universal joint kits are specifically designed to give extended driveshaft life. Flat ended needle bearings are used to withstand oscillating loads while the driveshaft is rotating and to eliminate skewing in the bearing cup. Thrust washers significantly reduce end galling on trunnion ends and lower universal joint operating temperature. Synthetic rubber seals and plastic seal guards provide lubricant retention and help prevent the entry of foreign material, significantly increasing universal joint life. The centrally located grease zerk (nipple) fitting increases the strength of the journal cross and allows more torque carrying capacity Features include: Cold-Formed Journal Cross Cold-formed for increased strength, the journal cross is not through drilled with grease channels, but rather partially drilled to increase strength and retain the appropriate amount of premium, lithium-based grease for maintenance-free operation. Thermo-Plastic Seal Guard Helps prevent contamination in the bearing assembly and secures the bearing onto the trunnion of the journal cross. Triple-Lip Seal Enhances grease retention and prevents contamination in the bearing assembly by utilizing three lips instead of two. Composite Thrust Washer Spicer Life series u joints feature a thermoplastic thrust washer in the bearing cup. This Eliminates metal-to-metal contact between the trunnion end and bearing cup. Prevents wear and end galling, and lowers the overall operating temperature of the universal joint. To lube or not to lube So the only remaining question is - do I use permanently sealed u-joints or re lubable u-joints (assuming there is a choice in the size/series you are using) This is not so simple to answer, and has long been the topic of many fierce debates. It may well come down to personal preference, but there are some points to consider. Most importantly - relubable u-joints MUST BE re lubed. It sounds obvious, but the one thing you do not want to do, is to kid yourself that you will do regular routine maintenance on your driveshaft and u-joints, and the not. And yet, this is exactly what a HUGE number of people do. Avoid it. Be honest with yourself. If you aren;t going to re lube them - use the "permanently" sealed kind, if not, you will experience premature failure. So, we have to be brutally honest with ourselves, fine. But what if we are the kind that actually would re lube the joints EACH and EVERY time they require it, properly, completely (see Part 3), and without fail (am I making a point here? There aren;t many people who fit into this category). Is there then any reason to prefer on kind over the other? You have to decide for yourself, but some advantages and disadvantages to consider are: Re-lubable (-) They have to be religiously re-lubed, a PITA (-) They generally are not as strong, due to the grease channels in the cross (-) If you lose or break a grease zerk (not uncommon) the joint is useless (you could just replace it, but it it's been out for a while, way more contaminant will have ingressed into the joint than can even be flushed out by proper lubrication (-) Slightly more of a pin to install, as you have to get the grease zerks in the right place and all lined up (+) They are generally cheaper (+) Depending on environment, they may last longer (if conditions are wet and muddy, the ability to purge the joint and relubricate it, may well extend the life of the joint beyond that of a joint that cannot be relubricated. However, in dry condition, this will likely be much less of a factor. Sealed (-) Depending on environment, may have a reduced service life than a relubable, since nothing is ever really 100% sealed, so that if contaminants do get in, there is no way to flush them out (-) More expensive (-) A bit more of a PITA to install, as you have to make sure you have sufficient lubricant in the caps before you install the joint, since you cannot add any afterwards. (+) Stronger, due to absence of through-cross grease channels (+) Less to worry about - don't require any maintenance. Personally, I choose to run Spicer Life Series permanently sealed (NON-relubable) u-joints in my 1350 CV driveshaft, for the following reason: With my type of rig and the wheeling it does, the fact that it's a trailer queen, sees very little high speed use, sees very little total mileage in a year, and yet must be as strong and reliable as possible - I need to squeak every little bit of strength I can from every component, and things are much more likely to break catastrophically way before their time, rather than wear to due to a lack of lube. Spicer Life Series Universal Joint Cross-Over Index Series Kit Part # 1310 SPL22-1X 1310/Ford 1-1/8" SPL22-3X 1310/7260 SPL22-4X 1330 SPL25-1X 1330/Ford 1-1/8" SPL25-3X 1330/S44 SPL25-4X S44/S44 SPL25-6X 1330/7290 SPL25-7X 7290/7290 SPL25-9X 1350 SPL30-1X 1410 SPL36-1X | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 367 Registered: 11-2002 |
and yes .....i click and pasted this...only john lee would really type this long of a post | ||
| Edward Bibb (Heirless) New Member Username: Heirless Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2003 |
Yea.. but John would have included some personal stab..hahaha.. seriously, I would just replace the u-joint and be done with it. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 893 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ok then. Thanks. I'll see if the dealership will give me back the replaced drive shaft, and then I can fuck around with it at leisure. Dean | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2324 Registered: 10-2001 |
i had my fittings snap off when i put ones on that were too long. and they are the ones that came with my NAPA u joints. just threw a new joint on there and used smaller fittings. | ||
| Peter J Blatt (Peteb) Senior Member Username: Peteb Post Number: 262 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dean, did the dealer do that? replace the drive shaft? I fear that i too am going to be replacing the u joints up front, they got 100k on them and i think that i am getting just a bit of vibe from them! Will call you or you call me, i am in town for a couple of days, and may be going u know where one night. Peter. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 894 Registered: 02-2002 |
Do you need a shop press or will they push out with a C-clamp or a vise? | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2327 Registered: 10-2001 |
put the u joint in a vise and use a socket (i think i used a spark plug socket) and tap them out with a hammer. make sure the socket fits nicely just inside the 'cup' and not too big to damage the shaft end. |
