| Author | Message | ||
     Joshua Smith (98hoo) New Member Username: 98hoo Post Number: 38 Registered: 09-2002 |
I started a thread a couple weeks ago because I think my detroit is not disengaging, and it is causing the tires to chirp and it is hard to steer. There were a lot of people thought it was my CDL. To try to figure out if it was this, I drove the truck to intersections, and right before turning, I would put the gear selector (low v. high) in neutral. The tires still chirped. Does this eliminate the CDL theory? If not, how else can I test it? It does seem like the selector will not slide to the right into high gear. It does feel like it is staying to the left which might keep it locked. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 832 Registered: 05-2002 |
When your truck is cool crawl up under there and disconnect the linkage from the stub at the top of the T-case. Then take a 10mm wrench and turn the stub counter clockwise (as viewed from the top - which you won't be - just push the wrench to the drivers side) until it clicks out of locked position. If it unlocks then you need to adjust your linkage. Hope this helps. Curtis | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1179 Registered: 02-2002 |
Johsua - any signs when you drained oil and/or pulled axles? Curious Thanks bill | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1099 Registered: 09-2002 |
Joshua, I don't remember anything about CDL theory you're referring to, but - even if you put the t-case in neutral, your rear wheels still have to turn at a different rate in the turn. If your Detroit is tighter than average, it may cause your tires to chirp in the turn (it shouldn't, but it may). Having the CDL locked is somewhat equivalent to applying throttle in the turn - since front wheels travel along a different path than the rears. So it would make chirping worse, maybe noticeably. peter | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 918 Registered: 02-2002 |
Lock the CDL, take off the front drive shaft, and see if it still scrapes the wheels. Then you'll know for sure. | ||
| Peter J Blatt (Peteb) Senior Member Username: Peteb Post Number: 268 Registered: 10-2002 |
If you jack up the rear wheels and have an assistant hold one and if you are able to turn one rear wheel, the detroit is working fine, i have a detrion in a d1 and it is silent 99% of the time as yours was, sounde to me like a t-case prob as well, you should be able to move the t-case lever any way through the figure 8 pattern while coasting slowly in n on the auto box! Peter. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 571 Registered: 03-2003 |
"Lock the CDL, take off the front drive shaft, and see if it still scrapes the wheels. Then you'll know for sure." Know what for sure? This doesn't mean diddly squat. It's about as probative as consulting Miss Cleo. Joshua, chock your front tires and put your rear axle on jack stands and do a two-part test. First, test the Detroit for function by having a friend turn one of your rear wheels one way while you simultaneously turn the other rear wheel the other way. If this works and the Detroit unlocks, try reversing directions with your friend and see if the Detroit unlocks then. If your Detroit is unlocking normally during this test, then chances are extremely good that your Detroit is fine. If your Detroit appears fine, then your problems are stemming from something else. You said previously that you could unlock your Detroit by hand, so I suspect something is wrong with your center diff. Here's the second part of the test. Turn your key to the "on" position, and shift both the gearbox and transfer box to neutral. Try spinning a rear tire. The Detroit is locked so both tires should spin together. With your transfer box (center diff) in neutral, you should be able to spin the rear tires independently of the front tires (which are stationary on the ground). If your rear axle won't spin independently of your front axle with the transfer box in neutral, you got center diff problems. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1103 Registered: 09-2002 |
It's about as probative as consulting Miss Cleo LOL It looks like his CDL is locked. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 923 Registered: 02-2002 |
John, why the aggression? He's not sure if its the CDL still locked! | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 833 Registered: 05-2002 |
Actually Dean I thought Johns suggestion was an elegant solution to analyze the problem. Remember that I suggested disconnecting the linkage and you suggested disconnecting the driveshaft? Mr. Lee's post focuses more on finding the problem and will check two differentials in about the same amount of time as either one of our solutions which only focus on the CDL. Of course, I still think mine will be more direct in solving the problem since I am convinced it is the CDL. I am also somewhat convinced it is the linkage since it happened at MAR where he was likely engaging CDL. Beside, if the problem is in the transfer case he will have to rule out the linkage first. This makes your suggestion of disconnecting the driveshaft a waste of time. -Curtis | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 924 Registered: 02-2002 |
It probably is the linkage as you say, but it could be that the selector shaft is, well, shafted. If for whatever reason the cdl is still locked then removing the drive shaft is literally a simple 2 minute procedure and a useful diagnostic. And despite the simplicity of John's procedure, there are times when brakes are sticky and can interfere, or maybe he's working on his own and such tests are difficult, who knows? Its just sad that such a smart guy has to resort to such childish mockery to argue a point. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 573 Registered: 03-2003 |
LOL Dean. "If for whatever reason the cdl is still locked then removing the drive shaft is literally a simple 2 minute procedure and a useful diagnostic." Well, removing the driveshaft can be a "useful diagnostic". Upon that we can agree. But notice how your driveshaft removal diagnostic is now "useful" whereas before you claimed it was dispositive, i.e., "then you'll know for sure". Removing the front driveshaft in this instance would not be dispositive. You now realize this, which is why your recommended diagnostic is now simply "useful". And if you think removing the front driveshaft is "literally a simple 2 minute procedure", then you know as much about removing driveshafts as you know about dianosing Joshua's problem. I defy you to remove the front driveshaft in two minutes, even if you're working at your fastest possible pace and have all of your tools ready, which never happens in real life. Access to the front driveshaft's bolts is very limited, and you normally have to jack up the front axle and put the transfer box in neutral to permit the front driveshaft to rotate to give you access to the bolts. Or, you have to move the vehicle forward and backward to turn the driveshaft and give yourself access to the bolts. This latter method is a pain in the ass as well, as the engine running gets the cats hot and the front driveshaft is right next to the cats. I don't know about you, but I dislike working next to hot objects. Even with speciality tools like S-wrenches and half-moon wrenches, the job is extremely difficult if not impossible without rotating the front driveshaft. Even when you can rotate the front driveshaft and gain access to the fasteners, they're a bitch to remove. They are usually frozen and the nylock fasteners are very soft and easy to round, especially because you have to use an open-ended wrench on the nylocks on the pinion end of the driveshaft. And unless you have a wrench with a very slim box end, you can't get the box end on the pinion-end bolt heads either. Anyone who can do this job in two minutes has my respect. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 927 Registered: 02-2002 |
LOL all you have to do is TCase in neutral and jack up one wheel! Then the shaft rotates! I did this when I put on a diff guard. Joshua - to see if your CDL is locked, see if you can turn the wheel as above. If the CDL is locked then you won't be able to turn it. If it turns freely, your CDL is NOT locked. Dean | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 574 Registered: 03-2003 |
Oh yeah, that's true. LOL. I'm so accustomed to doing this for the rear to test the Detroit that I forgot the front actually differentiates. Even using this method, all you're saving is having to jack up one additional wheel. I still defy you to remove the front driveshaft two minutes. Removing driveshaft bolts is a pain in the ass to say the least. Letting the driveshaft rotate gives you access to the bolts, but it also creates issues of its own. Most times I have to have someone step on the brakes while the transfer box in neutral, even for the fasteners on the pinion end. You can't get a good-enough purchase on the nylocks and it helps to have the driveshaft stationary. And you definitely need the driveshaft stationary to undo the transfer box end of the driveshaft. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 834 Registered: 05-2002 |
Damn Dean, All these complicated posts and none of us even saw that one. I hang my head in shame... | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 930 Registered: 02-2002 |
John, I'm making assumptions here that the guy has some practical ability, since he has a detroit, maybe that's wrong I dunno. Anyway Joshua and several others on this topic have questioned whether the CDL is still locked and causing the symptoms. Jacking up one front wheel and turning it will tell, even if he has a trutrac up front he'll still be able to turn it if the CDL is free. Maybe its not obvious that this is the case to some people, I had to go out and test it myself to make absolutely sure. But anyway the point is to come to the simplest solution through discussion and deduction and reasoning, and I think we are getting there. There is no need for personal attacks on anyone on this (professional) bulletin board in order to reach such a solution, so perhaps your efforts could be more effective if you just continued to help resolve people's technical problems, which you do well most of the time. Dean | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 835 Registered: 05-2002 |
Dean, While I agree with you on the first paragraph, you really lose me on the second. I realy do not see any personal attacks at all. Just because someone disagrees with your opinion does not mean they are attacking you. -Curtis | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 577 Registered: 03-2003 |
LOL. | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 132 Registered: 05-2003 |
"Lock the CDL, take off the front drive shaft, and see if it still scrapes the wheels. Then you'll know for sure." ...Dean Know what for sure? This doesn't mean diddly squat. It's about as probative as consulting Miss Cleo. ...John "If for whatever reason the cdl is still locked then removing the drive shaft is literally a simple 2 minute procedure and a useful diagnostic." ...Dean Well, removing the driveshaft can be a "useful diagnostic". Upon that we can agree. But notice how your driveshaft removal diagnostic is now "useful" whereas before you claimed it was dispositive, i.e., "then you'll know for sure". Removing the front driveshaft in this instance would not be dispositive. You now realize this, which is why your recommended diagnostic is now simply "useful". ...John And if you think removing the front driveshaft is "literally a simple 2 minute procedure", then you know as much about removing driveshafts as you know about dianosing Joshua's problem. I defy you to remove the front driveshaft in two minutes, even if you're working at your fastest possible pace and have all of your tools ready, which never happens in real life. ...John .....Seems to me John is spending as much time discrediting Dean as he is in solving the problem. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1109 Registered: 09-2002 |
Jaime, that little time John spent saying that Dean's suggestion was BS might have saved Joshua a couple of hours. And, come to think of it, Dean gave it a second thought and came up with a simple solution to one of the questions, which may help him later on. | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 402 Registered: 02-2003 |
hey guys I've only had a detroit for a couple of weeks and only taken it off road once. That taught me something about the change in the vehicle's behavior as a result of the detroit being installed ESPECIALLY if I locked the center diff and tried to turn. The vehicle resists turning runs wide etc. I'm leaning towards falling into the engaged CDL camp here for Josh. Josh, do you have wheel ramps? If so drive the truck on to them, chock the rear wheels, crack a cold one and let everything cool down. It takes time so maybe two cold ones  Now get underneath and feel your way to where the selector mechanism enters the Tfer box. With an open wrench, (13mm?) try to turn the post that sticks slightly out of the box. Take a good look at the mechanism too, and lubricate it as best you can. Keep rotating the post back and forth, but do NOT leave it in the position it was in. Now go out an give it a drive. Any different? If so, start moving that lever back and forth into and out of diff lock and lo range, loosen it up through use | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 133 Registered: 05-2003 |
Peter, What you say is true. I was trying to point out to Curtis why Dean took John's comment as a personal attack. An alternative approach that would not be attacking, but rather constructive would be to say something along the lines of... "I don't think Dean's suggestion would work because....." rather than ridiculing it. |
