| Author | Message | ||
     Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 312 Registered: 05-2003 |
My dogs are NOT adjusting to doggie seat belts. I have had a few very close calls when they have managed to trap themselves in the seatbelts while trying to escape the seat belts/harnesses. I barely had time to pull off the road and free my youngest before his leg snapped. Attempting to free his leg before it snapped was not a pleasant experience. At this point, my vet agrees that attempting to use them is only putting my dogs at risk. Actually, my vet is against dog seat belts of any kind and I totally understand his reasoning. I have tried 2 doggie seat belts. The first was a harness which they wore. The harness had a loop in the area of their backs/upper shoulders. Then, the stock seatbelt was put thru the loop and locked into place. The next doggie seatbelt that I tried was a short lead that went from a D ring on a harness and then the lead attached directly to where the stock seatbelt would have been locked into place. My dogs are very obedient and usually adjust to changes quickly. It's just NOT happening with seat belts. Has anyone else had this problem? Has anyone found a seatbelt that is "dog friendly"? Thanks in advance, Jamie | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 824 Registered: 09-2002 |
Hi Jamie, I have two dogs and I used to use seatbelts on them but I found they (the dogs) can get twisted up if not careful but I definitely don't let them roam the vehicle when it's moving. Most of the seatbelts I've seen operate on the same principle of tying them to the actual seatbelt and I've never really thought that to be a good idea as it tends to twist them up a bit. Now, I just put them in the back cargo area and use a travel crate. Strap the crate down and they should be fine. Also a dog barrier is a good idea. | ||
| Porter Mann (Porter) Member Username: Porter Post Number: 64 Registered: 05-2003 |
You have to have a calm dog to use those seatbelts. Any puppy or dog that moves around a lot will not be a good contender for the seatbelts for the reasons you noted. You can either get the dogs used to the harnesses by sitting in the car with them and training them (but not actually driving) for short periods. This might take a few weeks/months before being confident that they'll sit still. I like the crate idea becuase they're isolated, and they're not on the leather, plus there isn't anything that they can get into trouble with except with stuff I put inside the crate. | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 291 Registered: 01-2003 |
Oh geez. I tried the good dog parent thing, but it just doesn't work. My puppy lays down with her head on the centre console if we're in either Discovery. She sits in the passenger seat in the defender. There's no tying her down. I tried the harness in the car. I tried using the actual seatbelt. All she does is trap herself to a point where her head is 3 milimeters from the e-brake or some other silliness. She behaves best without being attached. She is just so sad if I put her behind the dog guard. | ||
| Eugene (Eugene) Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 102 Registered: 02-2003 |
I've experimented with the doggie seat belt thing, but it did not work out. My dog is just too hyperactive in the car. I find that my dog and I are happiest when he is behind the pet guard. I don't have to worry about him wiggling around the front and back seats and he seems to like the close confines of the cargo area. He settles down pretty quickly once we get on the road. As for using the actual seat belts, a 77 lbs. dog just doesn't seem to go for them. The dog is actually much better behaved in the Disco with pet guard than compared to a sedan without a pet guard. | ||
| Porter Mann (Porter) Member Username: Porter Post Number: 65 Registered: 05-2003 |
I have one dog that will sit quietly and calmly in the harness, the other one thinks its a superman cape and proceeds to bounce around and twist the both of them up. The crate also keeps them from clawing at the rear glass and destroying the defrost elements. | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 313 Registered: 05-2003 |
So glad to know that I am not the only one who is not getting along with dog seat belts. It was alarming to see how quickly they can get themselves tangled up in them. Looks like I am just going to leave them free in the backseat. They've traveled that way since they were puppies and I've never had a problem with them. That is their place, and they have never ventured from the back seat while I am in the driver's seat. For sure, they feel comfortable, safe, and secure there. I can't say that harnessing them into place gave me warm fuzzies anyway. At best, it confined their ability to balance when we were not traveling straight and level. Thinking "worst case scenario", I was cringing at tying them down - in doing so I was totally removing their chance for safe exit under their own power. Thanks again, Jamie | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 827 Registered: 09-2002 |
Jamie, My only concern with leaving them free in the backseat is emergency stops. It's not really you or your dogs you have to worry about. It's those in vehicles around you. You can't predict what another vehicle is going to always do. Have you ever seen what happens to a dog when you have an emergency situation (whether stopping or changing lanes)? They fly across the vehicle pretty quickly. That happened once with my dog and I was only going about 25 - 35 km/h in traffic (some guy cut me off). I never did that again. My dogs now only ride in the cargo area in a crate. Just a word of caution to you from personal experience. | ||
| Porter Mann (Porter) Member Username: Porter Post Number: 66 Registered: 05-2003 |
I agree with that. Realizing that seat belt harneses don't work, there still needs to be some form of safety and restraint. Any good parent would seat belt their human kids and not let them roam free in the back seat/cargo area so it shouldn't be really any different for our canine kids. I have airline approved kennels in the vehicle, but I am in the process of having some welders build a very simple crate that's bomb proof in the cargo area. | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 788 Registered: 02-2002 |
hey Jamie, forget if you've mentioned it before, yet, what type of 4 paw Rovers do you have? Jaime | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 316 Registered: 05-2003 |
Fun, enthusiastic, and hard working shetland sheepdogs - happy to go anywhere, as long as they get to go with me!!   | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 791 Registered: 02-2002 |
nice looking 4-paw drive Rovers Jamie. as far as driving with bow-wows in the car, mine are always in the back seat without restraint. on long trips the one Lab usually takes the floor which is nice and big on a LWB RR while the other then gets to stretch out on the seat. this way they are able to change positions, lay on one side or the other, and stay very calm. if they are not asleep, they are sitting looking out the window. in a stop ahead panic mode, they have bounced off the back of the front seats and landed in the floor area without any worse for the wear. also sometimes happens in slow mode when we're descending a steep pitch - they just slide off the seat, sit on the floor, and get back up when we level off. personally feel if you raise them in the car from pups, they are very content and well behaved while traveling. ours go everywhere we go unless its too hot for that quick trip to the store! Jaime | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 833 Registered: 09-2002 |
Not to be argumentative with those that have free roaming pets in the vehicle but I just have one question. Would you be comfortable without some type of restraint system for your kids or yourself in an accident? It just seems that so many of us think of our pets as not pets but as part of the family and an actual family member. I think there's probably very few of us that take losing a pet very lightly so why treat them any different than your own child. BTW, Rover_puppy, very nice looking dogs. I love the coloring of the grey one. | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 793 Registered: 02-2002 |
our 2 Labs are our "kids" Alan so understand your comment. at the same time, they are more resiliant than kids in the banging around situation. while I understand your concept, I feel it depends upon the breed, tempermant, and traveling situation. Sweetpea is my six Lab and have now had a pair of them for the last 2 decades. Gawd that is a long time when I think about it. Anyhow, they always have been raised to travel and find it very relaxing. so they are calm in the car while its moving. my feeling is there isn't one "rule" that applies to every situation. if I had a Min-Pin it probably would be in a crate. for my Labs, they get the back seat area to themselves and have the ability to change their position to suit their needs. Jaime | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 328 Registered: 04-2003 |
My border collie also has been a "traveling companion" since he was a puppy -- he has the whole back area (rear seats are in the basement) when someone is in the front, and sits in the front seat when it's just us. He's been through wheeling, near-accidents on the highway, everything. The dog just leans in the direction he needs to to stay on balance. It's really quite impressive... When he's in the back he lays down on the blankets I have back there and sleeps through most anything! | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 482 Registered: 01-2003 |
Okay so what's the best for the "kids" in an accident? My wife and I are debateing how to keep them safe right now. 2 dogs 65 and 70 lbs, in my rover, they usually get the back seat and now we are using the cargo area for them. They are good about not running around in the cabin, we are worried about accidents mainly. My issue with the crates or dog guard is the loss of the use of the cargo area on trips. I guess I could throw more stuff up on the rack, but what about the fridge? I need an area for that, and I tend to store the recovery gear and tools inside as it keeps my COG lower. I want my rovers to be safe in the rover, and leaving them home isn't an option. Could I mount a dog guard behind the front seats? I'd then get a second dog guard and put it behind the rear seats. Any ideas? | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 483 Registered: 01-2003 |
Another thought, how safe would it be for the pups impacting the dog guard? Do they bend or could a factory LR or DAP dog guard absorb the impact of 140lbs? Another sources for dog guards, (other than LR or DAP) who makes the best quality and best function? | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 625 Registered: 08-2002 |
We have Pembroke Welsh Corgis. Very, very tough resiliant dogs used in the highlands of Wales for cattle herding. They are thought of as small dogs but in reality they are big dogs with short legs. They have remarkable balance and strength. Ours are seasoned off-roaders too as they have been on quite a few adventures with us. Some may remember seeing them at MAR. Having said all that, I still worry about an accident situation where I have to jam on the brakes and everything hurtles forward. But as far as belting them in or caging them, no way. I just have to be more careful when they are aboard. Now our Black Dalmation, he gets belted in to the front seat when he is in the truck with me. That hasn't been alot lately as his arthritis at age 14 has robbed him of some of the balance skills he needs in the car/truck. | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 794 Registered: 02-2002 |
Andy, not sure why you'd need a guard behind your seat as the only open area is that small space between the seats. don't think they come over the headrest as there isn't much room there. lol! usually your gear in the back is securly tied down right so if you ever roll your Rover there isn't a bunch of stuff flying around. a guard back there though could certainly help loose items. if we're going on a camping trip, we usually bring along the dog beds which I stuff behind my seat. by covering the beds with a blanket, the one Lab thinks its just an extension of the back seat and usually curls up on it. she is tucked up against the front seat back and is well protected. the other Lab then has more more to stretch out. Andrew is right. ours lean into curves as well. they really are pretty stable. it was even more intense when we would take the other pair sailing. they always knew which was the high side and got on it. they were more stable walking around on deck than most crew. imho, I'm more concerned with shit flying around and hitting them or us than anything else in an emergency situation. | ||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 484 Registered: 01-2003 |
I was thinking of putting them in the rear seat protected by a dog guard behind the front seats and behind the rear seats. I worry about being hit with loose stuff, that's why I put in cargo tie downs in my d1 and store everything small in bigger containers and secure them to prevent projectiles, even when I'm not offroading. I worry about the head on or rear end accident, where my pups go flying to the front windshield. I am careful and a resposible driver, so offroad I could see a soft roll over, but not a catastrophic event like I could see on road. I just wonder what is the best thing to do, now I'm all worried about my "kids". Who makes the best dog guard, any opinions? At least this conversation will give a good reason to buy some pelican cases, "honey, think of how we could protect the "kids" better" ... lol | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 326 Registered: 05-2003 |
It is cool to see everyone express their thoughts and experiences. Making a decision about this has been a tough call. I cringe at the thought of putting this to the test and making the wrong decision - but, at this point I'm sticking with leaving my dogs free in the backseat. Since you all seem to care so much about your four legged family members, I'll share my reasoning for my decision. I made sure that my dogs had regular "car rides" starting at 8 weeks of age because (selfishly) I wanted dogs that would go anywhere without alot of extra effort on my part. I combined car rides with picking up pizza (for me) and and fresh breadsticks (for them) - this always left them eager for the next car ride. My dogs did their share of crashing off of the back seat - especially while they were eating at the same time. We all learned to multi-task and I got alot of practice at keeping focused on driving - no matter what was happening in the back seat. They learned the hard way how to keep their balance and it only took a few spills. I remain amazed at how quickly dogs adapt. Skipping seatbelts may sound irresponsible, especially for parents of human children. It took some serious thinking on my part to go at this from another direction. I fought my trained and conditioned thinking that automatically reasons that wearing seatbelts is THE safe and responsible way to ride in a car. To my knowledge, pet seat belts are not being put to the test like child seats and human seatbelts are. There has been alot of crash testing done on stock seat belts as they have been developed and modified. I've yet to see the doggie seat belts subjected to impact tests - let alone tested for general safety. The few incidents that we experienced left me with the thought that the companies selling them are going to have a huge liability issue when someone loses their faithful companion due to the design of the doggie seat belts. My dog did not have to make many moves to get his leg tangled in the seat belt, and when he did, it was tight - so tight that I had to do a bit of deep breathing to calm myself from panic, get safely off the road, into the backseat, and get him loose. It did not take much imagination for me to be very thankful that it was just his leg that was trapped. He did not alert me that his his leg being stuck - I felt horrible and still do) that he was so eager to please that he put up with the discomfort. The only reason that I noticed his dilema was because I was stopped at a light, and turned around to make eye contact and say hi to my dogs. I returned all 3 different types of seatbelts we tried. When someone comes up with something "safe" and proven to be safe, I'll be one of their first buyers. We have had a few experiences with slamming on the brakes to avoid hitting cars that pulled out in front of us. Dogs did subbstantial crashes into the backs of front seats. They learned fast to differentiate between a gentle stop and a fast stop - they brace and lean for the big ones. Ocassionaly one of my dogs will try to travel with front feet on the center cubby and rear feet on the back seat. They luv to do that, but I rarely let them b/c I don't want to risk them going thru the windsheild in event of crash. A firm but gentle elbow gets them off the cubby and entirely into the backseat again. Personally, I have never allowed my dogs to ride in the front seat. Having one of them hit the windsheild scares me - it is not the going thru that hurts anyone, it is the coming back through the glass when forward motion stops that does all the damage. Having watched the results of going thru the windsheild made me a true believer in stock seatbelts. I wore mine long before it was illegal to travel in the front seat without wearing them. I am a big believer in the guard dog. I keep it in place to protect me AND THE DOGS from getting hit from anything flying forward. I try hard to keep anything I carry onboard behind the guard - I am pretty tough on myself about doing that, even when close to home. I believe in the statistics that most accidents happen within 2 miles from home. I heard this joke a few days ago (or maybe I read it on Dweb, in which case I'll feel really dumb!). A man told his son that the majority of accidents happen within 2 miles of home. After he told that to his son, he asked his son what that meant to him, and his son replied - Dad, we need to move! | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 626 Registered: 08-2002 |
Jaime, there is one other option, but I don't know the name of it or where to get it, maybe someone else can interject. It is like a big blanket made of seat cover material that attaches to the headrests of the front seats and the headrests of the back seats and acts like a big sling. A dog, or dogs sitting in it are actually on the seat, but they can't fall into the footrest because of the sling, and it covers the armrest opening so they won't be propelled thru there or bother you while driving. It won't work for me becuse my rear seats are out! I did some Google searchs and came up with some links: http://www.stacksandstacks.com/html/8788_pet-mat-pet-traveler.htm http://word.seriousshopping.net/headrests/ |
