| Author | Message | ||
     nino aventajado (Ninoavent) New Member Username: Ninoavent Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2003 |
i am looking to upgrade my D1 with lockers. and have been informed that truetrac makes front and rear lockers. i am really interested in arb's but the price of the TT's makes them worth looking into. does anyone here have a D1 with this setup? my main concern is the way the truck drives on the road. thanks in advance guys. | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 495 Registered: 02-2003 |
the True trac is more of a limited slip than a locker. ARB's wouldnt affect the on road unless they were on. Some people here on the DWEB hate on the ARB's cause of thier airlines. | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 628 Registered: 08-2002 |
Frank "Mongo" Rafka runs a pair of tru-tracks in his D1. He loves them.....but he is the one to answer this for you. | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 168 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Guys, i'm running them in A DII w/4.11 gears...no complaints, got about 35k on them and been all over the country...do a search, this has been beat to death... frank | ||
| robert emmers (Rhemmers) New Member Username: Rhemmers Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2003 |
I've got TTs front and rear on my '03 and love em. Off road they're great. On road, at first the steering felt a bit heavier with the front TT but you quickly get used to that. Also it seems to give things a "steadier" feel, if that makes sense. | ||
| James (Jimmyg) Senior Member Username: Jimmyg Post Number: 413 Registered: 10-2002 |
TT are not lockers. If you want maximum traction, go with a Detroit or ARB. I've had ARB for 3 years and never had a single problem. Run the airlines along brake lines and you will be fine. They are more expensive but you get what you pay for. TT are ok for light off roading, especially if you put it in the rear. Maybe ARB/Detroit in the rear and TT up front? | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 170 Registered: 02-2003 |
This debate again...TT's are limited slips, not lockers...but more important than be locked is your Driving Ability...believe it or not, you CAN do serious off-roading with TT's, you also CAN do serious off-roading in a stock rig. Depends on what your doin'. If want a rock crawler, buy a D90 and kit it out with arb's and have fun...I'll use this as a example, at MAR, Andretti's Hill, drove right up, a fellow DWebber, with a TT/Detroit set-up, didn't...Get off the bullshit that TT's are just OK for light off-roading. ARB's are a pretty good set-up, but I've also seen guy's grenade half shafts because they THINK they can drive over ANYTHING because of lockers. Just because you put lockers in a rig, doesn't mean shit if you can't drive... | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 837 Registered: 09-2002 |
Take that beeaatch!  | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 736 Registered: 04-2003 |
another important consideration is the D2's electronic traction aids. I'm not too familiar with the D2's bells & whistles, but isn't a TT on a D2 with ETC a bit different than a TT on a plain jane D1? | ||
| Keith Armstrong (Keith) New Member Username: Keith Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2003 |
Ummm, didn't Nino start out talking abobut his D1? Hey Nino, I've got a Detroit in the rear and a TT in the front (from Expedition Exchange) and Great Basin 4.10 gears with 235/85's. All is well with the world....I'll let you know after this winter just how much fun it is in the snow | ||
| nino aventajado (Ninoavent) New Member Username: Ninoavent Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2003 |
guys, thanks for all the info. your help is definitely appreciated. nino | ||
| James (Jimmyg) Senior Member Username: Jimmyg Post Number: 414 Registered: 10-2002 |
Frank, I agree with you completely. Now, take your experienced driver and put them in a Dual TT truck and send them up a trail that is slightly difficult like say...holy cross. Now, take the same driver and put them in the same truck with Dual ARB's and tell me which one the experienced driver will prefer? Of course, we assume the rig has the appropriatly upgraded parts. | ||
| Milan (Milan) Senior Member Username: Milan Post Number: 296 Registered: 10-2002 |
Frank, While I agree about the driver's ability being very important, in snow, for example, open diffs suck. Once the slopes get steeper and rutty you go nowhere. Period. Anything will be better than an open diff. Skillfull driver or not. TrueTracs are awesome in the snow and DL/TT should climb even better. | ||
| Rans (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 629 Registered: 08-2002 |
I hear Detroits really suck in the snow! I've wheeled with Frank, I can assure you the man knows what he is doing. I was thinking of going with ARBS in both, but having spoken with Frank I am now more inclined towars the TTs. But we all agree that the driver makes the bigegst difference. | ||
| laszlo nemeth (Laz) New Member Username: Laz Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2003 |
In snow/ice i would say: driver, tires, then vehical. my wifes subaru with 4 DAMN good tires seriously put to shame a hummer h2, acura mdx, yukon all in one night. i would have used it to pull out the mdx (that caused the whole mess) but the mdx had to much mass over the subaru. so instead i chained up the disco (it had poor tires (decent all season poor snow)) and used it to pull the mdx out. personally i would prefer rear wheel drive with DAMN good tires over 4 wheel drive and poor tires. besides rear wheel drive is more fun on snow laz | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1120 Registered: 09-2002 |
Milan, FWIW - on one snow trip to the mountains, I was driving [then] open-ended Disco behind a fully locked full size jeep. My brother was following me in another open-ended full-size jeep. Guess what, we had to turn around because the lockers caused the lead vehicle to slide off the trail in off-camber situations. We didn't have this problem at all. | ||
| James (Jimmyg) Senior Member Username: Jimmyg Post Number: 415 Registered: 10-2002 |
I prefer open diffs too sometimes in snow for the the exact reason Peter listed. I've tried plenty of times with my ARB locked but sometimes in snow, and especially off camber, open is better. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 414 Registered: 11-2002 |
open beats locked in snow till the snow is up to the axles....then open stops working and locked will get you up on top of it. this is why ARB's rock...you get to see what is working best in the current conditions and use that combination. off camber selectable lockers are the best...PERIOD! | ||
| Scott Scott (Scottoz) Member Username: Scottoz Post Number: 125 Registered: 02-2003 |
how does etc go in snow | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1122 Registered: 09-2002 |
Thom, how about this - with the diffs open, can't get up; with the diffs locked, can't go straight? | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 416 Registered: 11-2002 |
yea pretty accurate. once on top with both ends locked if you have enough power and room to drive fast and loose then you can steer with 4 wheel drift....but once again I am refering to vehicles other then discos on discoweb | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 182 Registered: 02-2003 |
Thom, great description...We had a 140 inches of snow in the 'cuse last winter and I've had no problems with TT's in snow, on and off road. ETC actual is pretty good in snow... | ||
| Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Senior Member Username: Gregdavis Post Number: 1063 Registered: 08-2002 |
Frank, it's OK to use my name. | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 184 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Greg,you weren't the only one... frank | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) Member Username: Toddp Post Number: 141 Registered: 10-2002 |
Laszlo, I know what you mean. I've have an Audi 4000quattro and with Studded Hakkas I can go play with the snowmobiles. Its got adjustable ride height coil overs so jack it up an 1" or 2" and lock the rear (they come from the factory with a Vacuum actuated mechanical locker in the back and the center) and I can go up VERY steep icy slopes. I have pulled out Dodge Trucks and a Full Size Chevy Van with the Audi, its so FUN embarassing a big 4x4 with a little audi. I am running Dunlop RT's on my Disco and they seem to be quite good in the snow. Cant wait for ski season. Todd (For Sale) Audi 4000 turbo quattro | ||
| Milan (Milan) Senior Member Username: Milan Post Number: 297 Registered: 10-2002 |
We run Detroits or other stuff that keeps the rear locked on off camber all the time. I will be the first to agree that it will put you sideways but where it matters this is usally long after an open diffed vehicle would have had to turn back anyway. Where you go sideways and open diffs doesn't you can usually make it through with a bit of crabwalk. Deep snow in particualr was what I had in mind when I made the comment. Of course situations do differ, so you may have terrain that does benefit the open diff more. Then we go back to building for 90% of the trails you run. Selectable lockers are the best for snow. More so in the front than rear IMO. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1126 Registered: 09-2002 |
Still, not quite there, Milan. The case I've mentioned - typical or rare: going up the grade, with an off-camber slope. On open-diff'ed vehicles, upper-side (with respect to off-camber) wheels were spinning a lot, while lower-side wheels kept following the rut. On the locked vehicle, both sides' wheels were spinning, causing it to slide sideways. On top of that, it destroyed old ruts - so we could not continue despite having borderline-enough traction to keep climbing. It happened to me a few times before, and all it takes is the side-slope being about the same as the grade. It doesn't take much - 2 degrees on ice patch, and you wouldn't go anywhere. | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 133 Registered: 02-2003 |
ARBs! (just wanted to bring fuel to the fire ) | ||
| Milan (Milan) Senior Member Username: Milan Post Number: 298 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm talking uphill too. On rutted hills the open diff just open as axles cross up. On a rounded edge of the trail, open diffs start spinning one wheel and vehicle stops dead. If you use momentum, it slides | ||
| Milan (Milan) Senior Member Username: Milan Post Number: 299 Registered: 10-2002 |
I was editting the message above an it got clobbered. Here's what I was trying to say (not that my opinions matter that much but I like talking about this ). ----- I'm talking uphill too. On rutted hills the open diffs just open as axles cross up. On a rounded edge of the trail, open diffs start spinning one wheel and vehicle stops dead. If you use momentum, it slides off the edge. Locked vehicle will crab even at slower speeds but will keep pulling/pushing forward. With more throttle it will turn more up hill but again will just keep crabbing up. I'd love to do a side to side comparison with you to see what exactly you're talking about. Either way, TrueTracs are way better than open diffs and don't suffer from sidehill slip like the lockers do. They're the best non-locker traction diffs for snow (or almost anything else) IMO. Lockers front and back are a different ball game altogether. Loked front definitely hurts on sidehills in most situations. | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 141 Registered: 07-2003 |
"I'll use this as a example, at MAR, Andretti's Hill, drove right up, a fellow DWebber, with a TT/Detroit set-up, didn't.." I saw a D1 with a rear locker only (ARB)drive up that hill several times during that weekend. I have the TT/Detriot set-up and I had no problems what so ever on that hill. Trevor with the green D90 TT/Detriot had no problems. Mike Noe with the series truck and rear locker had no problems. |
