| Author | Message | ||
     Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 343 Registered: 05-2003 |
A good freind of mine who is an experienced off- roader was able to fabricate and weld 2 front recovery points to my TJM winch bumper. He did an AWESOME job. I took some pics to show solution since you have put up with my whining about not having them  My pics look funky, I know - it was the best I could do. Was not able to capture good detail shots. The hooks are welded inside the channel holes of bumper directly at the location where winch bumper bolts on to frame. I took 2 pics of the front passenger side hook. One of them is a view thru the top channel hole. The other is a view thru the bottom channel hole. I am so happy to now have recovery points to use when a winch recovery is risky.     | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 344 Registered: 05-2003 |
Woopsy, I did not describe mounting of recovery hooks properly. The tow points were not welded to the bumper. They bolted INTO existing mouting hardware. Sorry about that. I guess I don't understand how Gene solved my "no fixed front recovery point" problem. For those of you that have been trying to come up with solution for your TJM's, you can write to Gene - he knows what he did!! Gene@MyakkaOutfitters.com | ||
| Mike Bauer (Mikeb) Member Username: Mikeb Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2003 |
I hate tow hooks! They are sooo dangerous. Replace it with something better. Thanks, Mike B. | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 346 Registered: 05-2003 |
Why are they dangerous? | ||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 144 Registered: 05-2003 |
That looks great Jamie, very cool, I just called a friend with a TJM a said there is an answer!! I think what Mike is saying is that welded tow hooks are very dangerous, they can become a projectile if they come off. But correctly bolted tow hooks in my experience are fine. Great job -Jim | ||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) New Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2003 |
On the rear of my Jeep I use hooks off a SuperDuty. With the correct grade of hardware, they are perfectly safe. And they hold a strap much better than the little aftermarket ones (like pro-comp). I wouldn't worry about yours, Jamie, they look great (and safe). | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 752 Registered: 04-2003 |
A yank with a strap on well-mounted hook is fine. Some hooks have spring-loaded clasps (like a carabiner) so that the strap doesn't fall off - a nice option on a hook. If the recovery point is welded on, you never quite know if/when the welds will fail and then you could have a winch cable breaking loose under 10,000 lbs of pull with a heavy steel meat hook and jagged broken weld edges swinging on the end of it...not pretty. Of course, mounting hardware can fail too, but you know the specs of your mounting hardware, whereas any old yahoo can run a crappy bead with a welder and if everyone assumes it's perfectly safe, someone's head is bound to roll or be caved in by that meathook. On a more pleasant note, now your Rover kind of looks like a catfish | ||
| Steven Ratajczyk (Stevenr) Member Username: Stevenr Post Number: 45 Registered: 05-2003 |
Jaimie, I just have one unrelated question... how do you keep your undercarriage so clean? LOL Your truck looks great though. -Steven | ||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) New Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2003 |
kinda on the same topic...I've been running grade 5 instead of anything higher with the understanding that they can handle a higher shear load. Now I can't remember where I got this info from. I'm I correct? Or did I just dream it up? Blue's description above got me thinkin! And It DOES look like a Catfish! | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 348 Registered: 04-2003 |
I think we have a name for yer Rover, Jamie...although if they were mounted like some Jeep tow hooks I've seen it'd look like a warthog... Andy | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 759 Registered: 04-2003 |
LOL Catfish Beignets | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 602 Registered: 03-2003 |
Jaime, I hate to rain on your parade, but I think your friend did you a disservice by mounting the hooks where he did and cutting your bumper. From the photos, it appears as if you have mounted the hook to the front of the TJM crush can using the third mounting bolt that secures the blade to the mounting flange on the forward portion of the crush can, so a hard pull on the hook can result in an elongation of the crush can. This is the very reason a recovery point cannot be mounted to the Disco2 TJM T15/T17 blades, which are airbag-compatible designs. You have bypassed the blade, but you mounted the recovery hook to the crush can, which is little or no better than mounting to the blade. I am also guessing that a hard pull on your recovery hook will move the bumper forward as the mounting bolt is yanked forward. In essence, bypassing the blade and mounting the recovery point to the crush can is illusory and really achieves nothing. Here is another front recovery point option that I like: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/DSC07968.jpg These recovery hooks are solidly bolted to the TJM winch tray (and not to the blade or crush cans) with two 1/2" bolts for each hook, and the winch tray is bolted to the vehicle's frame with four very large bolts. The winch tray is not an airbag-compatible piece and it is very solidly constructed out of 1/4" thick steel. Everything is very solid, and the entire set-up with the winch tray and the hooks is substantially stronger than the frame horns to which the assembly is bolted. There is a spring steel clip on these hooks to prevent slack straps from falling from the hook inadvertently. Without these clips, I wouldn't even consider these hooks as a viable option: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/DSC07998.jpg These spring steel clips are not perfect, but they will suffice. Also, they are infinitely better than having open hooks. I prefer having a hook on each side of the winch tray: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/DSC07979.jpg There are several different ways to mount these hooks to the winch tray, but I prefer to install the the hooks in such a manner that they will match the angle cut on the winch tray: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/DSC07975.jpg and also protrude slightly below the T15/T17's blade area: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/DSC08003.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/DSC07624.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/DSC08001.jpg The end result is a very "factory" look that doesn't look at all like a hack job: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/DSC07587.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/DSC07614.jpg The hooks are hardly noticeable from eye level: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/DSC07638.jpg And yet they are there when you need them. Here are the same hooks on the trail: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/ics2/PA250039.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/ics2/PA250041.jpg We like to install these recovery hooks on all of our TJM bumper installs at the EE Shop. We will keep on installing these hooks in this manner until we see another method that we like better. But so far is this is the nicest set-up that we have seen for the airbag-compatible TJM bars. There's no cutting or welding required for this install. The TJM bumper need not be modified at all for this install. Only the winch frame need be drilled with four 1/2" holes to mount the hooks. A few minutes with a Unibit and you're done. | ||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 128 Registered: 06-2003 |
John, Those look great. Have you mounted something similar to them in the rear? -Rick | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 604 Registered: 03-2003 |
Rick, Hooks in the rear? What's wrong with the factory rear tow hitch? | ||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 130 Registered: 06-2003 |
I wouldnt say anything is wrong with it, but i like the quick on/off of the hook with the clip. | ||
| traveltoad (Traveltoad) Member Username: Traveltoad Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2002 |
I have the EE set up on my front TJM bumper. They look and work great. I think John has really come up with a great front recovery point for the TJM. On the trail many people have looked at and agreed with me. True hooks are not a perfect recovery point, but with the spring clips they are more than adequate. I do like having two hooks as it allows you to pull into the hook if you can't pull perfectly straight. | ||
| Kahbahzahkee (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 603 Registered: 02-2002 |
I agree. I have the same setup and I like the idea of using a tow-strap as a bridle with both hooks. Keeps the angle of pull away from the point of the hook and keeps the stress distributedfairly even across both sides of the winch tray. Even better than that, I'm not relying on any welds for my recovery points. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 420 Registered: 11-2002 |
I agree with john 100% if they are mounted on the crush cans. but I disagree with the way the other hooks are mounted. those hooks are designed to be monted with the bolts inline with the direction of load otherwise you get a rotation force that multiplies the shearing force. when the bolts are in line with the direction of pull then both bolts would need to be sheared at once to make it fail. AM I saying its dangerous...not at all...is it correct....no it is not. but I do agree that if you are in the crush can area you need to rethink it and go another way. Good eye John | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 352 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thom, the problem is that no matter how you mount those hooks chances are you are going to apply loads at one time or another that are not in direct line with the bolts. Furthermore, using John's hooks with a bridle helps distribute the load applied to each hook. I also think if someone was stupid enough to try to snatch a vehicle using a hook then I bet the rotational load wouldn't shear the bolt but rather would break the hook mount at the outside edge of the first mounting bolt. I think John's compromise looks pretty good given the limitations. My 2 cents- | ||
| Kahbahzahkee (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 605 Registered: 02-2002 |
Agreed that this is not "right" But what John says is appropriate:
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| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 348 Registered: 05-2003 |
Just got in from an unusually long day that ended with several hours assisting in a minor crisis situation (not involving me) - which appears to have been resolved favorably. Signed on and very surprised at so many posts! Thanks so much for your replies! I just scanned them quickly. Will read in more detail tomorrow and will respond as soon as I have time. My bumper was not cut at all, and all is bolted, not welded. Photographer (me) obviously has no talent. Too funny!! We will call my rover "warthog"?? That's just a riot. I can't believe how clean my truck is either - turns out that the car wash I have used for years CAN FIT my truck in it with room to spare. I am embarresed by the armoural tires. My interior has been so dirty from mud and stuff that I've been thinking about taking off the seat covers and putting them in the washing machine. Well, now I don't have to, they got washed all on their own. Apparantly quite a monsoon came down while my truck was unattended - both sunroofs and all windows open. Yep, inside got a big bath! Hoping tomorrow is a dry day to leave it all open to dry out. Thanks again, need sleep - I'll read posts thouroughly tomorrow, follow your links, take a good look under my truck to check out your concerns. I'm almost positive that the bolts are not near the crush cans - because we took a good look at that. I will check out tommorrow for sure. Warthog, huh?? I must be extremely tired b/c I'm thinking that is a great name. Or maybe I missed the name for my truck and it is some other name? Thanks again!! Jamie | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 352 Registered: 04-2003 |
Catfish is the other, more popular option. Andy | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 349 Registered: 05-2003 |
Catfish?? I don't get it, you guys are going to have to explain that one to me! Actually, I liked hogwart better -- it sounded sillier. I have been joking that I would name my truck Bat Girl Mobile, but that is way to long. Since names seem to start with animal names, maybe my rover's name should be dumb bunny. That would be more appropriate since I have known to do "dumb bunny" stuff on the trail, but I don't think I want name that starts with dumb! Ok, I've got it! How about TRAIL BUNNY??? My schedule has not slowed down enough for me to follow your posts yet (have you ever noticed it is either feast or famine??). However, Gene did and he likes whatever John Lee has done. Actually, that was one of the options that Gene had already considered when looking at my truck. Whatever it is he saw when he followed the link in this thread last night, I will order it today for Monday delivery. I might even get a chance to follow the links to see it before EE opens on west coast? In any case, that will get rover prepared for Bill and Rachels arrival next week - and the start of my training with Bill. BTW, my pics were an insult to the great work that Gene did. I was able to get under my truck yesterday and I took a few more when I figured out how to use the macro function on my camera. When I have time (that thing again!), I will look at pics. Maybe I will even post a few!! Thanks again!! Jamie | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 361 Registered: 04-2003 |
Catfish have "whiskers" protruding from their head -- your truck has them too! For whatever reason I cannot upload images right now...if I get a chance and can manage to do it I'll put one up so you can compare! Andy | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 350 Registered: 05-2003 |
Whiskers huh? I'm sure going to have to look closer to see where they are. I guess I just don't look at my truck as a whole very often. It seems like all I look at is whatever I happen to be fixing up or breaking... Here are a few pics I took yesterday. Please excuse the mess, I was working on my winch and winch line at the time. I am still ordering John Lee's recovery suggestion from EE today, just wanted to show that Gene did not mangle my truck. He would NEVER do that. He his own designated rover that specifically for that purpose (which he has rolled 3 times). I won't tell you her name though... maybe someone else from FLRC will post her name here, I'm not even saything THAT word!! Andy, I REALLY look forward to your pics!! Jamie      | ||
| Kahbahzahkee (Koby) Senior Member Username: Koby Post Number: 611 Registered: 02-2002 |
 That hook is definitely on the wrong end of the crush can. | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 356 Registered: 05-2003 |
John Lee, I would much prefer rain on my parade rather than medivac out!! |
