| Author | Message | ||
     Porter Mann (Porter) Member Username: Porter Post Number: 90 Registered: 05-2003 |
After fixing all the other problems this month (sunroof rails, leaking water pump, leaking calipers, leaking steering pump, cruise control) I'm ready for the next problem.... In the mornings, I have a difficult time starting the Disco. It take a lot of cranks before it fires up, but when it does - it runs fine. Very smooth idle, no stalls, and no problems on the road, even on the highway. I suspect the problem to be in the fuel system someplace and I've narrowed it down to a few different systems - the fuel pressure regulator, the fuel pump, or leaky injectors. I replaced the fuel filter thinking it might have been a clogged filter, but no dice - didn't fix the problem. Becuase of the other fixes, I have to wait until I can afford to buy a fuel pressure guage, but with the hard start problem - is there any way I can determine if its one of the three problem points from above without the guage. | ||
| Brent (Silly_me) Member Username: Silly_me Post Number: 100 Registered: 07-2003 |
Whether or not it's the FPR it's always a good idea IMO to replace it over time. Good preventive medicine in my eyes. | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 405 Registered: 04-2003 |
I would put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail and test. Test first thing in the morning.... Test after engine is running..... Test after you shut engine down for a few minutes. You will probably find that the pressure in the morning is not enought fuel pressure to provide the injectors with enough fuel. Thus causing the hard starts. Fuel pressure requlator will probably be the issue, unless the fuel pump itself is bleading off, then you will know this because you have the pressure at the rail, but still doesn't start well. Of course I have been known to be wrong..... | ||
| Joseph Bilyk (Denverrover) Member Username: Denverrover Post Number: 102 Registered: 02-2003 |
Crazy question for you but what kind of oil are you running? My truck seems to start much easier in the winter with 5w Mobil. Just a thought. joe | ||
| Porter Mann (Porter) Member Username: Porter Post Number: 91 Registered: 05-2003 |
I run 10w30 redline (synthetic). I live in Southern California, so the winter is mild - if you can consider it winter. By the way, if I haven't already mentioned it - its a 96 Disco. Another thing I've also noticed, if I start the Disco after a few hours in the morning, there's no problem - it start up with only a few cranks, but anything over 8+ hours, and I have the same problem as starting in the morning. It seems like it holds pressure for some time, but over time it bleeds out. I've been thinking its the fuel pressure regulator as well. My assumptions would be that if it was the fuel pump, I would be having problems when the Disco is on the road - either spluttering or stalling - especially when the demand of fuel is higher. What is the purpose of a fuel pressure regulator? From previous posts, I've been trying to find where it is. On the fuel rail, is it on the back driver side behind the plenum? How do I go about replacing it - it sounds like it should be done regardless. | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 410 Registered: 04-2003 |
The purpose of the the fuel regulator is to provide a constant pressure of fuel...I forget what kind of pressure the pump puts out, but lets say it creates 75psi of fuel pressure. If this is the case, then the regulator will maintain a constant 37psi (assuming that it works correctly). Not sure the exact location of the fuel regulator. Planning to replace mine in the spring if it doesn't go bad before then. | ||
| Bazzle (Bazzle) New Member Username: Bazzle Post Number: 38 Registered: 09-2003 |
Sounds like pressure bleeding off. Try turning key to ON, Wait 5 secs, then turn to start. Bazzle | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Senior Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 281 Registered: 02-2002 |
Try this in the mornings: Turn the ignition on, but don't turn all the way to engage the starter. You should hear the pump run for a few seconds. Turn the key to off & repeat this a few times. This will allow the fuel pump to cycle a few times, building more pressure along the way. If it starts after a few cycles like this, the pump is probably weak. The only way to be certain is to get the gauge. You can get one for about $35 at Sears. The correct pressure is 34-37 psi with ignition on/ engine off. Lower than that means a bad pump. | ||
| Shaun Power (Shaunp) Member Username: Shaunp Post Number: 207 Registered: 05-2003 |
Fuel pressure regulator is leaking I reckon | ||
| Porter Mann (Porter) Member Username: Porter Post Number: 92 Registered: 05-2003 |
I talked to the LR dealer, and they said that more often they've been replacing the pump, and not the regulator, espeically with the specifics of my rig, '96 with 100k. I'll just have to go and get a gauge.... | ||
| Porter Mann (Porter) Member Username: Porter Post Number: 93 Registered: 05-2003 |
I checked this morning, and there is no pressure in the fuel rail at all. Can someone check their Disco and see if after sitting overnight, wheter there is still pressure in the rail? | ||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 130 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hey Porter, I checked my DII and only got a drizzle. Just a bit of fuel came out. After I started it and shut her down, there was plenty of pressure. (it's been sitting a few days) | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 573 Registered: 04-2001 |
I can tell you from experience that 9/10 it is a leaky injector or two which is causing the pressure loss. Ron | ||
| Porter Mann (Porter) Member Username: Porter Post Number: 94 Registered: 05-2003 |
I was rethinking this problem last night, and although I could replace the pump and regulator, it dawned on me that if in fact there is supposed to be pressure in the fuel rail, its leaking where its not supposed to, and that replacing the regulator and pump would compensate for the leaking injectors (build pressure quickly) that it wouldn't solve the problem. Do you think some fuel injection cleaner would clear up the problem (maybe a clog keeping the injector from closing properly), or is a leaking injector something that needs to be replaced (non-repairable). | ||
| Chris Eagleson (Chriseagleson) New Member Username: Chriseagleson Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2003 |
I had a similar problem with my 97 Disco with 57K. I took it to my tech and he found 5 leaky injectors. I went ahead and had them all replaced. When taking the injectors out he found sludge. The rail was rusted and clogged with this black sludge. He looked further and the sludge went all the way back to the tank. He replaced the rail, filter and cleaned all lines and tank. Works great now. | ||
| Tony Zuniga (Tony23007) Member Username: Tony23007 Post Number: 210 Registered: 05-2003 |
Porter, my best bet is that you do have one or more bad injectors, once they are bad they can be cleaned but must come out to do so, the quick cleans oil shops sell for $69.00 are worthless when you have a clogged injector. If your going through all the trouble of getting them off then might as well replace them with new ones. One test that I recomend is try to start your car as fast as you can in the morning. Most of the time if you turn the key and let it sit for a few seconds the pressure in the rail build up making the injectors bleed out and causing you to have too much gas in the chamber, this excess gas needs to be burned or evaporated before the engine can start correctly therefore giving you the several cranks at start up!! I replaced most of my injectors as they all went bad, it is something anyone can definitely due if you have time and patience. If you need more info just send me an email. I believe I posted step by step instructions on how to do this once but would not mind sending you instructions on how to check/replace fuel injectors. | ||
| Lino Palumbo (Linmarpa) New Member Username: Linmarpa Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2003 |
Guys if this is the problem I will by you all a beer if you come to Canada. For the last 4 years i have been having trouble starting, the exact same problem discussed above. It got worse last winter where it would not start at -20 celsius. I am willing to replace the injectors but should I replace the regulator? Is the job difficult to do your self? Lino Canada | ||
| Lino Palumbo (Linmarpa) New Member Username: Linmarpa Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2003 |
I need help. I called around and the pro's seem to think it is the fuel sensor on the rail. What do you think guys. I think you might as well change the air temp. sensor too. I think before you change the injectors which can be 160$ each you should try this first. | ||
| Lino Palumbo (Linmarpa) New Member Username: Linmarpa Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2003 |
i tried to turn the key as fast as i could as mentioned in one of the postings and it did not work. i will try another test tomorrow morning. | ||
| Lino Palumbo (Linmarpa) New Member Username: Linmarpa Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2003 |
this morning i upluged the coolant sensor prior to starting and it started but only after many cranks. It at least started. I think i will replace the sensor before i take the injectors out. Somone please answer, it feels like I am talking to myself.........Help, SOS LR down | ||
| Tony V. Sawyer (Tony_sawyer) New Member Username: Tony_sawyer Post Number: 7 Registered: 06-2003 |
I just went through a similar spate with my '95 Disco. After replacing the fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, fuel temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, throttle position sensor, vehicle speed sensor, coil, plug wires, ignition amplifier and idle air control valve, it turned out that it was the distributor cap & rotor (which appeared ok when inpected and cleaned). You may also want to check how well charged your battery is prior to cranking. If the voltage is low, it will drop further when cranking and will result in a weaker spark and thus harder starting. Once it is started, the alternator kicks in to give enough voltage for normal operations. Good luck, I know how frustrated you are. | ||
| Lino Palumbo (Linmarpa) New Member Username: Linmarpa Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi Tony, I thought of changing the battery but I had the battery brand new a few years ago and it still had the same problem on the first start of the day. I am wondering now if its worth replacing the sensors. How does your truck start in the morning now? Is cranking long? thanks Lino | ||
| Lino Palumbo (Linmarpa) New Member Username: Linmarpa Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2003 |
Replaced fuel Temp. sensor. It still takes many cranks to get it going. I will continue to trouble shoot if any cares. I can't clear the code 15. I followed the procedure listed in the electrical troubleshooting manual and it still appears. Lino | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 451 Registered: 04-2003 |
Lino, do you have a fuel pressure gauge? I would still think it may be fuel pressure, this may be any of the following, but what do I know. Fuel pump, Fuel Filter, Fuel pressure Requlator, Fuel injectors (leaking off pressure) I know on my '97 (don't have fuel pressure gauge, just guessing) after the vehicle has sat overnight, I can press the shradder valve and still get fuel to come up from the pressure that is still in the lines. Hope this helps, Joey | ||
| Lino Palumbo (Linmarpa) New Member Username: Linmarpa Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks Joey, I think I will try that. Does anyone know how you can tell if its the injectors or the relay or pump?? Thanks Lino | ||
| jerry d quintana (Exjeeper) Member Username: Exjeeper Post Number: 58 Registered: 02-2003 |
Mine hade the same problem, cold starts sucked. I and the dealer thought that it was the pressure regulator or the fuel pump. They first checked all the fuel injectors and they all appered to be working fine. They replaced everything and nothing worked ended up being one of the fuel injectors was working intermitently. Chenk the injectors first adn check them twice. | ||
| Lino Palumbo (Linmarpa) New Member Username: Linmarpa Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2003 |
It may sound stupid but how do i check the injector? When you had trouble do you mean it had to crank over longer then usual before the engine started. Thanks Lino | ||
| Tony V. Sawyer (Tony_sawyer) New Member Username: Tony_sawyer Post Number: 8 Registered: 06-2003 |
Sorry I didn't get back sooner, down with the flu. I have had no further trouble starting hot or cold since changing the cap and rotor. I should have started with the cheapest things first! Oh, well, lots of stuff for the spares box. | ||
| Seth Oatway (Seth_w) New Member Username: Seth_w Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2003 |
Easiest way to check the injectors is to pull the fuel rail with the injectors attached flip it over then switch on the key to pressurize the system(do not try to start!) Look at the spray end of each injector, any seepage is a faulty unit. I now wish I had replaced all of mine as the two I replaced only solved the problem for a little while. | ||
| Jim Macklow (Macklow) New Member Username: Macklow Post Number: 27 Registered: 03-2003 |
I have a similar problem, except my '95 won't start if the temperature is "cold" (32F starts fine... 20F no go). I can get the truck started by flooring the accelerator and cranking (sometimes for 2 minutes) until the damn engine catches. Once it does start firing it runs just fine. I wonder if my cats are fried now, though. I guess I'll find out at smog time in a few months. I'm not sure if I have a fool injector problem or spark problem... tailpipe smells like gasoline after a few 10s of seconds of cranking with no start. Regapped the spark plugs but it didn't help. Distributor cap-n-rotor replaced in July with dealer parts... but I guess it could be the cap and rotor. | ||
| jerry d quintana (Exjeeper) Member Username: Exjeeper Post Number: 65 Registered: 02-2003 |
I changed my cap and rotor first like the dealer told me to do worked fine for a week or two cranked right up and than it started to have cold morning starts all over again. just my experience and one the dealer learned after a month of work and the free 2003 disco my wife got to drive during that time. | ||
| Jim Macklow (Macklow) New Member Username: Macklow Post Number: 29 Registered: 03-2003 |
I finally went out and bought a fuel pressure gage, hooked it up and had 35 PSI at the rail. Left the gage on the rail for 10 minutes to see if the pressure would drop... In fact, it went up to 41! Miracles! After scratching my head I decided that I had played doctor long enough for the day. In the morning I was able to link these bits of information: I always have lots of fuel vapor pressure in my gas tank... when taking off the gas cap I always get a big blast of fuel vapor... fuel pressure at rail strangely goes up after sitting a few minutes. Hooked up the fuel pressure gage in the morning... zero psi at the rail and no fuel spillage when hooking up the gage. Turned the key to run the fuel pump, and it did its 5 second run then shut off. Before I could run around to the front of the truck to check the fuel pressure it was already below 25 and in a few seconds it was at zero. A quick check at the gas cap confirmed what I suspected; no fuel vapor pressure build-up in the gas tank. So, anyone know of a part# for non-dealer FPR for '95 disco? I'll check the dealer tomorrow; hopefully the price will be reasonable. |
