| Author | Message | ||
     Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 160 Registered: 10-2002 |
What happened to our thread about chipping a D1. Earlier this morning I posted a message with some links to RPI about the Optimax chip, etc. Then this afternoon the entire thread is gone.d DId the Moderators delete it? Can we re-start this entire thread? I cant remember everything I said. But heres the website again. http://www.rpiv8.com/engine-8.htm#ecu And again, I've heard good things about the Optimax chip, both for Performance and fuel economy. lk8r Todd | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 962 Registered: 05-2002 |
Todd, If you have heard good things about this chip then just put it in your rig and tell us about it. So far, even with all of your expectations that someone else should serve you, I have not seen it happen. Beyond that, this is a freaking heavy 4X4. It has plenty of torque offroad and without undertaking an and-to-end approach to mods, you will likely gain little (if any) usable power with just a chip. -Curtis | ||
| Mike M (Rangeroverhp) Member Username: Rangeroverhp Post Number: 90 Registered: 09-2003 |
Got them in both of my trucks. Works great. Rovers North has them for GEMS trucks. | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 161 Registered: 10-2002 |
Curtis, Could you explain yourself. What do you mean by my "expectations that someone else should serve me". I'm asking for any available information on chipping a Disco 3.9l. the thread was originally started by someone else, It peaked my interest as I have been considering it. I plan to get an Optimax chip at some point and I WILL post my results. HOwever, it seems there are some other chips out there to look at. I dont know why asking for information or personal experience with them is bad. Maybe I'm mis-interprieting your comment but I dont understand it. I thougth this list was a list for posting questions you dont know the answer to to open up discussion about them. Over the last 2-years that I've beena member thats what I've seen. But lately I've gotten a few negative E-mails to the contrary. whats up. Or maybe I've been overly sensitive to peoples comments and they really mean them in Jest. Hmm. :-) Anyhow, Curtis, I would just go buy one and throw it in, but, ALAS, I spend much of my time Broke so I choose my Mods carefully. I realize that my Rover is a heavy Brick. But hell, a VW Toureg weights 1,000lbs more and does 0-60 about 3+ seconds faster with a similar size motor. And I've seen rovers with serious power gains. I plan to build the heads and do a cam when I someday pull the heads, but for know, I'm mainly wondering how these "OTHER" chips differ to the Optimax. I do not believe the Optimax chip is "snakoil" as every post I have seen from people using it has good results. they remap the Ignition and the Fuel Delievery on this chip. I'm curious how these other chips compare. What specifically do they do or change. Thanks Todd | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 162 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hey Mike, Thanks for the post. Im not clear though. Is it the Optimax chip that you have or somethign else that Rovers North has. I plan to call them on Monday. But I didn't see it listed in my catalogue or Online. also, I have heard most people with the Optimax chip have seen power and fuel economy increases. Has your experience been similar or or do you only see a gain in one area. Lastly, its very hard to give a seat of the pants HP increase, but do you have any guestimate or any compartive information that would be of help. Such as "I used to hold 70mph at full throttle over Snowqualmie Pass but now I can hold 75mph with ease)" or something similar/ Thanks Toddp | ||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 223 Registered: 06-2003 |
Has anyone tried a power chip? http://www.powerchipgroup.com/products/showchip.asp?pid=Lan0010&year=2000&make=L and%20Rover I was thinking of getting this one. | ||
| Will Tillery (Will) Member Username: Will Post Number: 196 Registered: 11-2002 |
Rick, We just recently added the power chip line but before I let my first one get in a customers hands I am going to test it this week in my disco. Will post results 2 weeks from today. Hold on to your money. I will make sure you get the chip at a better price but not before I decide if it is worth it. Will Tillery 804.539.5845 | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 963 Registered: 05-2002 |
Todd, "Could you explain yourself." No. "Anyhow, Curtis, I would just go buy one and throw it in, but, ALAS, I spend much of my time Broke so I choose my Mods carefully. I realize that my Rover is a heavy Brick. But hell, a VW Toureg weights 1,000lbs more and does 0-60 about 3+ seconds faster with a similar size motor." Yes, those Tour Eggs are nice. My wife likes them, and if she has her way she will even hit 60 three seconds before I do. Who cares? Look into the new Porche Carerra GT - it is even faster than a Tour Egg. "And I've seen rovers with serious power gains" Yep - and serious money thrown into them as well if they truly had any real power gains. There is rarely ever a power issue that cannot be resolved with a fat wallet. That is all my point is. There is no hidden agenda. -Curtis Phone number not attached  | ||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 178 Registered: 10-2003 |
not to stir up anything here, but why hop up a Disco engine. Unless your towing over mountians or tryin' to build up a dunerunner/mudrunner why? i mean if you want a hot rod why start with a Disco? | ||
| Roger Fastring (Fastring) Member Username: Fastring Post Number: 55 Registered: 02-2003 |
I think the point is not to 'hotrod' the truck, its just to make it liveable. I am far from a 'power freak', having owned 5 Samurais, but the disco is just lacking. Regearing helped, but its still slow. I switch between my lifted (SPOA) samurai and my D1 for the daily grind and find the samurai peppier in passing and off the line, daily driving sort of conditions. The D1 with 33s and 4.5" of lift feels a whole lock more stable, but I'd actually consider a chip if this thread could defend it. I've done the K&N, freeflow exhaust, snorkel, 4.75s, perfect tuning/plugs/wires and even pulling the front shaft and running in H-Lock to see if the awd was the problem. Long email, to communicate that I'm with Todd, anything for a few hundred bucks that makes a difference is worth discussing. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2209 Registered: 02-2002 |
Tour Egg, Twarrrrg, Toe Rag, teuregge, Toureg; whatever. The different between VW and you chipping out your Disco is that VW engineered their drivetrain to accomodate the torque and LR do not engineer their drivetrain to accomodate your torque. Make sense? | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1300 Registered: 02-2003 |
roger, it's odd. i had the same truck as you with 32" tires 3 " lift and stock gears. i always felt my disco had plenty of power. have you ever considered that your truck might have another issue? i also think you have over compensated with your gearing and this has hurt you. rob | ||
| David Zymowski (Davidz) Member Username: Davidz Post Number: 53 Registered: 04-2003 |
97 Disco 4.0 235/85/16 mudders, flow master, and stock gears. And I am running the powerchip. have been for 897 miles now to be exact. I put in the chip at the same time i replaced my motor.(hence the exact miles) I put in the chip cuz i was looking for a lil extra power while pulling my pop up camper. i couldnt shell out the $$$ for a 4.6 upgrade so i went with the Powerchip. I finally was able to really test the engine/chip this weekend hauling the camper. and the results are good. i noticed a big difference on the hills and overpasses i could keep up with traffic and not get passed. It just pulled the the whole time where as before i ran out of pedal and power. The chip did make a difference in all around performance. Its not huge but you can tell somethings different. So what i am trying to say is if your looking for a turbo charger/seat of your pants wild ride this isnt it. If you want a lil extra pull out of your 4.0 go for it. | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 163 Registered: 10-2002 |
Rob, I dont thing that Rogers truck has issues, "although he could", but we all have different ideas of what is "acceptable". Contrary to what Curtis believe, I have no desire to build something to compete with a Toureg. Nor would I even Consider a Porsche Cayanne (Althought I believe he said Carrerra GT, not sure if he meant that or if he meant their SUV) And if I had the money I WOULD buy a Toureg with the V-10 TDI. But I dont. What I DO want is for my Rover to maintain 80mph up many of the Mtn Passes around here. Regardless of whether I have 5 People and a Rack attached or Not. and to be able to maintain the speedlimit when towing my boat. A RR 4.6l has no problem doing that with 40hp more, If I can split the difference I think I'd be happy. 20-30hp is what it would take. And about the same for torque. That wont stress the driveline, and shouldnt stress the wallet to much. WILL - Please post the results of the Power Chip Install to the list. If you could I'd love some numbers. Maybe find a long hill and do a rolling full throttle run from say 40-50mph. Or even 60mph if its Interstate, up to say 80mph and time it. Maybe a 0-60 run, and if possible see what fuel economy is like although that may take a few tanks before you get a decent average. Its not the most scientific way but what we are after is the change it makes, not the actual numbers. THanks for picking up this thread guys. Hopefully all of us can benefit in some way. Todd | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 164 Registered: 10-2002 |
David, Thanks for the post. It must have gone up while I was typing mine. Do you have any familiar hills that you pull that trailer up. I'm curious if your speed up the hill has changed. Basically, with my boat right now I can only do about 40-45mph up the steeper grades ont he freeway. IF I drop into 2nd gear sometimes a little "50mph" abut at the expense of running the motor very hard. Just curious if you have any numbers or not. Thanks for the post Todd | ||
| David Zymowski (Davidz) Member Username: Davidz Post Number: 55 Registered: 04-2003 |
yes Todd, my camper weighs about 1800 loaded. before on a few long bridges up and over the Rivers i would drop to about 50 mph or less. this weekend i held a solid 60 mph up and over with the cruise control on. it was enough for my wife to notice. it was more like hey, are you looking for something in that car in front of us or just trying to scare the shit out of me. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1305 Registered: 02-2003 |
todd i see your point. 80mph always seemed to fast for me becasue the disco brakes suck. i don't have a need for speed and rarely am i in a hurry so i can't relate. -rob | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 968 Registered: 05-2002 |
Todd, This is what I meant when I said Carerra GT: http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/overview.aspx?modelid=11104&src=LeftNav I think the rest of my points will be lost on you altogether so I am not going to elaborate more. -Curtis | ||
| Will Tillery (Will) Member Username: Will Post Number: 206 Registered: 11-2002 |
OK first 12 hrs of chippin it. Installed power chip on my 1995 d1 yesterday afternoon. After 20 min install time...removing glove box etc I was off and ready to test it out. First stop... RED LIGHT ...Beside me was a 2003 Fly Yellow Vette and I was ready to take it on...light turned green and I was off. My Disco dusted that vette and left him in the dark..but wait a second his headlights were off and he was still sitting at the traffic light... My passenger just laughed and informed me the vette was simply parallel parked on the street...DAMN> Ok but seriously. Gains are not huge but at the same time noticeable. I noticed gains especially over 40mph when entering I95 and under 40 when climbing hills. I will be testing the unit some more today and giving some more tangible results. Thanks Will | ||
| Luis Constantin (Luisc) Member Username: Luisc Post Number: 164 Registered: 02-2003 |
I tried the Powerchip in my 98 Disco. I have stage 1 head work, that is street port and polish with heavy attention to the bowl, triple angle valves, port matching. KN filter, stock 235/70 tires, OME lift. I tried the chip and found no difference. I returned the chip and got a refund. The people at Powerchip will work with you if your not satisfied. The results of the chip may vary in other Rovers. | ||
| Will Tillery (Will) Member Username: Will Post Number: 207 Registered: 11-2002 |
I am running 265 tires on an old man emu/bilstein comination. to my "power" advantage i have a borla and kandn. to my disadvantage on the road but not to offroad i have rovertym slimline bumper 12000 lb set up a bar rovertym rock sliders milemaker 12000 adventure rack and I have been testing it for the last 12 hrs with a 4.0 block in my cargo area...so I am a little heavy. | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 165 Registered: 10-2002 |
Will, Luis, David, Thanks so much for your comments. Luis, yours makes me very curious. I'd love to see a comparison of the Fuel Maps comparing the Stock Fuel Map to the RPI Optimax and to the "Powerchip". Who makes the PowerChip anyhow? I know the RPI chip supposedly works better on a Stage 1 Motor. Seems the Powerchip optimzed for a stock motor. But this doesn't quite make sense to me as even if it oriented more toward a stock motor it should still make a difference in a tuned motor. I would personally be very happy with a 10mph increase on MT Passes. I dont NEED to go 80mph. But when pulling a trailer going 40mph gets REALLY old REALLY Fast. Thanks for the replies guys. Will, I'd love another post once you spend a few days with it. And if you were getting consistant fuel economy numbers Before the chip I'm curious if it changes one way or the other. Thanks Todd | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 166 Registered: 10-2002 |
Curtis, Thanks for the Link. I just wasn't sure if you meant what you said of it was a typo and you had meant to type "Porsche Cayanne". I'd LOVE to have a Porsche Carrera GT. Or an Enzo, or even a 911. all are out of my price range though. And when I want to go fast I take my Turbo 4000 quattro. Its plenty fast and handles great. I was simply wanting to maintain the speedlimit when towing and get a little more pep out of my motor. Anyhow, thanks fot he Link. SWEET CAR! I'd be happy to give a driving impression of it if you want to send one my way. :-) l8r Todd | ||
| Bruce Potier (Brucep) Member Username: Brucep Post Number: 100 Registered: 06-2003 |
Todd, Last time I looked into the RPI-Chipping, it required you to send your ECU to RPI, where they did the customization of the mapping. Since my 97 needs ‘two’ chips, the prices were reaching $1200, so forget that! For $1200, I can get a lot more enjoyment from other goodies besides negligible performance from a machine not engineered for speed. I am in the camp of forget performance upgrades unless I can logically make the upgrade while repairing something or preventing threats (skid plates etc). Dave Z, I PROMISE to get your press-kit back to you over X-mas. | ||
| Luis Constantin (Luisc) Member Username: Luisc Post Number: 165 Registered: 02-2003 |
Todd, You can find more out about the powerchip at http://www.powerchipgroup.com Supposedly, they use the information that you supply them about your engine and mods to program the chip. Just because it didn't work on my D1 doesn't mean it wouldn't work on someone else's. They did give me 60 days to try it, but only because I had expressed my concerns to them before the 30 day money back guarantee expired. I wasn't expecting massive improvements, just a noticable difference. Basically, you have little to loose. If you get improvements and you think they are worth $$$, your happy. If you don't feel that it is worth it, send it back and get a refund. Just vehicle down time lost. That's it. Your still happy. Or not. | ||
| Will Tillery (Will) Member Username: Will Post Number: 210 Registered: 11-2002 |
We are going to elminate the downtime with our ecu power chip upgrade but charge a 200.00 core which is refundable when your ecu is returned. I am going to test the chip out this weekend ont he highway while pulling a hauler with a rover on it and will post the results. Thanks Will | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 493 Registered: 05-2003 |
Can I please offer another perspective?? I'm continuing to observe all these guys around town getting into this "street truck" craze. When they come in contact with each other, it's like listening to some kind of p__ing contest of my truck goes faster than yours, my truck and wheels are shinier than yours, my truck makes a better noise than yours, my truck has the addition of computer parts in the engine that make my truck way better and faster than yours, etc, etc, etc, etc. I am a very tolerant individual and also open minded - but, I have to remove myself from the area of such conversations. If I am involved in the conversation, I will politely excuse my self with the benign comment "I sure could do some major damage to that truck by driving it offroad". However, my thoughts run along the lines of: -what a total waste of a truck -what a waste of money -(depending on the level of cockiness being displayed) I sometimes add the thought - what an idiot I don't care if you are driving a shiny brand new land rover or the most trashed looking rover out there, you're already driving the best there is. Hold your head high, don't buy into all that mumbo jumbo, and don't become a casualty of the attitudes of sissy trucks. Personally, I don't want my truck to go faster or have more power. My engine feels like it was designed just right and the power feels totally balanced to rescue any sissy truck out there. Nothing will ever meet the performance of a land rover off road. Will, if taking off fast from a red light floats your boat, go for it. For me, nothing will ever beat the exhilieration that I feel off road when my rover has the power to venture away from red lights and into terrain that no other truck can get to. Personally, I wouldn't mess with that for anything in the world. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1334 Registered: 02-2003 |
Brainwashed. | ||
| Will Tillery (Will) Member Username: Will Post Number: 211 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jamie, Powerchip recently sent me the chip for free to test and consider adding to our product line up. IF you read on my prior posts I warned the guys not to jump to any quick decisions on any of these products and I would try to give a fair and accurate description of the product...not a sales pitch. I am not trying to make my truck a drag race monster. Simply look at the equipment on my truck... The roof rack I have is definitely not suited for race aerodynamics and I wouldnt say the sliders, 12000 milemarker, 2inch lift, 265 tires, or rovertym bumper help with the speed either. As a owner of 5 rovers currently and 24 over the past 7 years I know these trucks and I have seen and done what they can do. They never cease to amaze me. I am not worried so much about the "sissy" image and although I sometimes look down to see where I am going I feel my head is slightly level. (it does sort of have that stock d1 spring lean) but other than that its fairly square. As far as waste of money is concerned that is your opinion. In your profile is a nice photo of a truck with a snorkel, arb with winch, exp rack, nice beefy tires etc.. Many opinions could be drawn from that photo as well. Everyone is entitled to make their own personal decisions based on their own research and desires with these trucks just like yourself. That is the Land Rover experience. Not a panel of judges sitting at a table deciding if some mod meets the Land Rover Card carrying seal of approval. Also I guess I should be a little more careful about my sarcastic tone and joking demeanor. This board should in fact be kept serious and all jokes should be kept aside. Anytime you would like to go wheelin with us "chippin" or not we would be happy to have you up to Virginia. Take care, Will | ||
| Chris von C. (Chrisvonc) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Chrisvonc Post Number: 322 Registered: 07-2002 |
Drink the kool-aide when the leader says so... LOL | ||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 740 Registered: 02-2002 |
You have got to be joking me. Street truck. ROFLMAO I would hope that anyone considering an ECU upgrade for their Disco really expects their truck will roll off the line like some Typhoon or 454SS. Your assumption is way off-base. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2224 Registered: 02-2002 |
Unleash the Fury UNLEASH THE FURY UNLEASH THE FURY UNLEASH THE FURY  | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 226 Registered: 11-2002 |
Man I miss my cyclone. | ||
| Dave Thomas (Dthomas) New Member Username: Dthomas Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have never driven a Rover that has had the ECU 'chipped' but I do have a BMW that I have put a Jim Conforti chip in and the added power is insane. Someone that really knows the 'ins and outs' of the EFI system can really work some magic with the Bosch system (thats what the BMW uses) with little downside. That said, the current crop of ECU mods for the Disco may or may not be very good, but the concept is very valid. Hell...I got another 20HP on the BMW for a few hundred bucks...cant beat that. | ||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 742 Registered: 02-2002 |
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| Dave Thomas (Dthomas) New Member Username: Dthomas Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2003 |
No its not apples and oranges...both vehicles use a computer to control the EFI and both can be adjusted. Dont think any more power is a good thing? Fine. But spare us the asswipe posts...your input is crap. | ||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 743 Registered: 02-2002 |
LOL 20 extra horsepower by chipping the Disco doesn't buy you power additions that you could even remotely describe as "insane". Look, you can compare all you want, but the fact remains that the Disco is a 5500 pig while your BMW definitely weighs substantially less. Just because chipping your BMW got you some insane power doesn't mean that by merely chipping a Disco you are going to yield similar results. | ||
| Dave Thomas (Dthomas) New Member Username: Dthomas Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2003 |
I never said you would get the same results with the Rovers ECU mods....but whats your beef with more power? Is it a bad thing? Your rig with an extra 500lbs of bolt ons could not use another 20HP? I just dont understand why all the negative posts. Nobody said anything about making the Disco 'fast'. When I rebuild my Discos engine I was going to swap in a 4.6 bottom end, but why bother, more power is bad...right? | ||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 744 Registered: 02-2002 |
I think you need to go back and re-read my posts. Did I ever say that more power was bad? Please advise, RSVP RSVP | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 495 Registered: 05-2003 |
It was not my intention to offend or put down anyone in my post. So sorry if the words I chose sounded that way. I suppose you'd have to understand the area where I live to better understand what I meant. Honestly, I don't even have anything against street trucks - not at all. What I have difficulty being exposed to for very long is watching people put others down because they seem to think they are superior due to the "things" they have. Will, my words were totally sincere when I said if that is what floats your boat to go for it | ||
| Will Tillery (Will) Member Username: Will Post Number: 216 Registered: 11-2002 |
No harm done Jamie... I think the concern for power goes beyond drag racing and my prior post about the Vette was meant as a joke. I am not trying or expecting my vehicle to ever be a street rod. If I wanted a street rod then I would collect street rods. The power concern is in more every day user issues such as towing, interstate driving etc. My Disco is a daily driver as well as my weekend ticket for adventure. The most impressive part of the chip is not the fact that it adds hp or makes your car a rocket but the following. (although the hp is nice) At 2000 rpm you gain 24 lb ft,3000 28 and so on. The torque gain is nice.... as far as acceleration off the red line I was joking regarding the Vette and my audition for "Fast and Furius Part 3: DiscoCrazy" starring Will Tillery and his 95 tank. 0-60 in 1 gallon, oh yeah! This boat is a floatin... | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 126 Registered: 04-2003 |
Regarding those chips which are sold by RPI: They are actually made by Mark Adams whose whole business is oriented around LR EFI systems. The chips are designed to match your truck. There is much much more to be gained from rechipping than just adding more throttle response. In the case of the 4.0 GEMS system there is also a really big problem in the USA(which applies to the majority of people on this board). Your ECU is causing the exhaust valves to burn and stick in their guides. Randall | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 168 Registered: 10-2002 |
Will, Thanks so much for the Posts. Everyone actually, atleast the thread is alive and kicking now. When I started this thread I tried to be as clear as possible that my reasons were not for a "hot rod" but to get more usable power. I have a LOT of steep hills around here. If you live in Ohio then maybe yoru power is fine. But When I'm going 45mph up a hill and cars are passing me doine 80mph I feel uncomfortable. Now I can do 60-65 if I'm alone up these hills. But fully loaded or with a trailer the weight takes its toll. ANd yes the rig runs right. What I want is an extra bit of power to add 10mph to my cruising speed, esp up hills. I dont think ANYONE on this list wants or expects their LR to be a Hot Rod. Granted, I know there is a Guy somewhere with a Discovery that can pull a low 14 in the 1/4 mile but thats not what we are after. Will has been posting EXACTLY what I asked for which were opinions on the mod "HE HAS ON HIS TRUCK" as well as any quantitative data he has regardless of how inaccurate it may be. Such as the extra 10mph he got going up a hill with this trailer. Hell, 10mph up the Pass is enough to keep the Semi Trucks from crawling up my TailPipe. Maybe I could even keep up with them. Luis to was kind enought to post with actual results. THANKS. HE didn't like the chip but he tried it and wasn't satisfied. Point is, if you have somehting to contribute, GREAT, if you want to have a pissing contest because for some reason you have something agains an extra 10-20hp, go start a "10hp more on a LR is Pointless" thread. I'd love to have a 4.6l Disco, and may someday, but for know, I have to live with the 3.9l. And in hilly country if you pull a trailer at all, it simply is NOT Adaquate nor is it SAFE in my opinion. FOr offroading and flat land travel, its plenty. l8r Todd (Anxiously awaiting my new bushings to help my truck handle better, afraid to post my comments on the swap for fear someone will bash me for trying to make my rover handle like a Corvette ans say that I should just go buy a Corvette) :-) Hmm, Time to go hit the bar. I need a Hieneken, this post made my mouth dry. | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 496 Registered: 05-2003 |
Will, glad to hear that and thanks. As I said, I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. My comments were not directed to anyone on Dweb, that's for sure. I probably should have better explained what I meant when I said "a different perspective" (and perhaps some about the attitudes of where I live?) I have definitely crossed the line of what is considered "acceptable behavior" in my area for having what I refer to as "roveritis". For sure, I am NOT winning any popularity contests around here. The funny thing about that is that I am enjoying my life way much more than I did when I was doing whatever everyone else thought I should be doing. I will always be grateful for everyone on Dweb because of the support and strength to continue on when I have faced discouragement and dissaproval close to home. That support continues on a daily basis and sometimes it is the only safe harbor that I can find. The more progress that I make in pursuing my dreams, I know I am becoming less tolerant of snotty behavior and attitudes. In addition, I find myself silently questioning what right anyone else has to decide what is (or is not) acceptable behavior, the correct items to own, or what one is allowed to do with their possessions and also remain in good favor. I was in the vicinity of a "p__ing contest" earlier this week and I felt bad for the young man who was on the receiving end of certain prevailing attitudes. He was getting totally slaughtered. I removed myself from the area annoyed, disgusted, and attempting to silently put some sort of a humorous spin to what I had witnessed. As in, ok, let me get this straight, it is ok to own a truck, IF it is the currently the most "THE THING" to have, and IF you add every single latest "THE THING" to put on it, and IF you know the latest lingo about "THE THINGS" having to do with it, and IF you have it only for show, and IF it never serves a useful purpose, and maybe you also always have to wear a rolex on each wrist too? Besides feeling bad for the guy who was being subtly (and not so subtly) put down, it left me wondering (again) about all the years I spent doing what was appropriate and acceptable. As in what was I thinking?? Reading this thread left me thinking that there really are no "wrong answers" for any of us and even our perspectives change as we change. The red light post made me smile as it brought back memories of how "cool" I felt driving my parents cars thru the school parking lot, and how joyful I feel at the presesnt time as I pursue terrain as far away from civilization as safely possible, and also how I will probably someday be looking back to these days with the question of - what was I thinking?? Overall, I think the important thing is to follow our dreams and enjoy life while we are able to. Of all people, I would be the very last person who had any business judging what anyone else does with or to their rover, or anything anyone tinkers with as a possibility in connection to their rover. I do feel exhilerated driving offroad - yet, I have plenty of days of being a "happy camper" just spray painting anything that is not moving with neon pink paint. A few months ago, I thought what the heck, and spray painted my name freehand in rather large letters on my driveway. I don't think anyone else likes that or approves, but I get to smile everytime I walk by my artwork, just because I found the courage to reached out do it - I painted my name in my driveway where the only "acceptable thing to do is to color all you want with sidewalk chalk". Wish I could change the wording in my early post from "sissy trucks" to "big fat bullies who own acceptable and appropriate trucks (which certainly are NOT Land Rovers). I'm just glad my rover gets me away from this kind of stuff. When we run away, we are a fat, heavy, and slow pig - for now, we are quite happy and content this way. I am even becoming quite fond of the way my rover grunts and snorts while we lumber along | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 169 Registered: 10-2002 |
BTW, Can someone here tell me who monitors this List. Apparently I'm on Probation. WHY? I have no idea. I have recieved no e-mail explaining it or anything. I'm slightly offended though as I'll I have done is stick up for staying with the subject I had posted and chastised one person for ridiculing me for posting about a power increase. I dont feel that I've been offensive or out of line. Just curious, I am on many automotive lists and have never had such a reaction. I'm usually regarded as knowlegable or if I'm not I'm honest about what I dont know. How can I contact the list moderator? I'm very confused. Thanks TOdd | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 170 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jamie, My comments were not really directed at you, not sure if you thought they were or not. But more toward a general misconception on the purpose of the thread itself. I actually found your post interesting, although I did feel you were comparing me to those sissy trucks and somehow saying that my putitng a chip in my vehicle I should go and joint them in their "my rig is better than yours" pissing contest. I guess I read your wrong. I couldnt agree with you more. I am on many lists and one thing than continually bugs me is how opinionated people can be. Audi People trash BMW's, and vice versa. Yet, on the track a I've seen BMW's trash Audi's and many Audi's run circles around BMW's. On the track at least its really more about the driver. :-) I wish everyone could be entitled to their own opinion without ridicule though. I stood up for myself not to long ago and now I"m on probation for some reason. Apparently what I said in defense of my wants and needs in regards to wanting more power and staying on subject with regards to a post offended someone on thsi list that is either a moderator or has some other control of this list. I'm not taking anythign personally but I sure wish I knew why. Anyhow, Thakns for the Posts Jamie. THey are well written and thought out. I misunderstood your first post but regardless, my counter post was not aimed at your. It was simply a long winded re-statment of "what" those of us lookign at chips are looking for. Thanks Todd | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 437 Registered: 04-2003 |
In a lot of ways we are all like "those people" who get all worked up over having "the right stuff" on the truck. The direction is different, but the conversations often follow the same template. At best our discussions are VERY constructive -- getting farther down the trail, being able to get these 4WD delivery vans up a mountain pass, etc. At worst it takes on the tenor of the past flamewars over home-made mods, Snap-On vs. Husky et al, etc. That said, if those chips work, I say go for it...as long as the expectations are not to race slammed and nitroused minitrucks. Andy | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 172 Registered: 10-2002 |
Uhh, Can we crawl "OVER" the slammed and Nitroused Mini Trucks. :-) Just kidding. Todd | ||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 223 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jamie, your original post on this thread was right on the money! My feelings are along the same lines. And a 'stock' Rover that wheels is MUCH better than a built one that doesn't! People seem to forget how good they are stock. The one behind the wheel is the first thing that should be 'upgraded'. Learn to wheel first, than build up the rig to keep up with your advancing skills. (of course sometimes it just fun to wrench on our rigs, too. Adding trick stuff IS fun!) | ||
| Joe M. (Little_joe) Senior Member Username: Little_joe Post Number: 272 Registered: 11-2002 |
Before and after dyno tests would quiet the peanut gallery. Who's going to dyno theirs? Otherwise I don't trust anyone's "seat of the pants" judgement. joe | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 173 Registered: 10-2002 |
Agreed Joe, I'd love some dyno results. Powerchip "CLAIMS" 20hp. I'd love to know where that comes from. However, I do feel that back to back comparison like Will has done of the same truck, with the same trailer, done before and after the chip can offer a worthwhile comparison. Its not exactly "seat of the pants" but some some quantitative and comparison value. Ultimately I dont care How many "HP or LB/FT" my truck has. But if it will let me do 10mph faster up the Mountain Pass with the boat behind me that is a "SIGNIFICANT" increase that to me is worthwhile of the upgrade. But of its 2mph then maybe its not worth the money. Still, I'd LOVE to see a dyno chart. Maybe if I get a good Bonus Check this spring I'll get the chip and dyno it. My buddy's shop "MIGHT" be getting a 4-wheel dyno. Cool. l8r Todd | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 972 Registered: 05-2002 |
Todd: "Apparently I'm on Probation. WHY? I have no idea" "(blah blah blah)...and chastised one person for ridiculing me for posting about a power increase. I dont feel that I've been offensive or out of line." Yes - you did get out of line. You played moderator by jumping on a guy in the deleted post. I railed on you, but you probably never saw it since the post was deleted. In that post you were way out of line and got involved in something that did not involve you. Some others got put on probation as well, but thier status will probably be changed back sooner than yours. **note - I am not a moderator so please feel free to respond according to how you "really feel" ** On another note, your seeking of cheap additional power in honorable. We wish we could all do it. The reality is quad-fold: (1) You probably don't need it (2) It will likely only yield you marginal results (3)You may give up other performance and emissions necessities (4) True power increases (if they are necessary) come from complete rebuilds. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, but for what it is worth, this thread is ridiculous and you are not nearly as "knowledgable" as you think you may be. -Curtis | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 174 Registered: 10-2002 |
Agreed Joe, I'd love some dyno results. Powerchip "CLAIMS" 20hp. I'd love to know where that comes from. However, I do feel that back to back comparison like Will has done of the same truck, with the same trailer, done before and after the chip can offer a worthwhile comparison. Its not exactly "seat of the pants" but some some quantitative and comparison value. Ultimately I dont care How many "HP or LB/FT" my truck has. But if it will let me do 10mph faster up the Mountain Pass with the boat behind me that is a "SIGNIFICANT" increase that to me is worthwhile of the upgrade. But of its 2mph then maybe its not worth the money. Still, I'd LOVE to see a dyno chart. Maybe if I get a good Bonus Check this spring I'll get the chip and dyno it. My buddy's shop "MIGHT" be getting a 4-wheel dyno. Cool. l8r Todd | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 175 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oops, Sorry for that last post. It was a double post. Curtis, I'd still like to hear from the moderators. So far, I have ridiculed no one. YOu continually however seem to want to ridicule my posts. Why I'm not sure. My comments on the last thread I feel were completely in line. I understand that some people on this list may be very good friends, but reading it simply as TEXT which is what is is, there was no way to know that they were kidding. The text read very hostile and way off topic and I simply was stating that and saying that I found it rude. I see NO harm in that. That was my Opinion but ALL our opinions are valid. Never did I become hostile. (I did however swear with symbols,) I have state that I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Curtis, I dotn know WHAT your beef is with me but PLEASE LAY OFF> Every post you make to me seems to have Some comment that is negative either about me or my ideas. As for my knowledge, I am not a Rover Expert. But I am very well respected on some audi lists. I know alot about engines, drivetrains, chassis design and engineering, vehicle dynamics, etc. HOWEVER! Most of my experience is with cars set up for the track or for Rally Racing. On those lists I'm mostly there to answer questions and rarely post a question. On the Discoweb list I ask LOTS of questions. In hopes that I will get knowlegable answers. I realize some answers will be narrow minded or un-founded. Thats the nature of all lists. But I dont expect the comments that I saw on the Deleted post nor the comments I've recieved from you. If I'm so out of line why doenst a Moderator speak up. PLEASE! you are the ONLY one I've heard from. Lastly In answer to your 4 comments about power increase. (1) I do need it. 40mph up a MT Pass is not safe in my book. (2) Marginal results are subjective and what I'm hearing is that 5-10mph on Mt Passes with a traielr is a very possible increase. (3) I definately may give up in emissions as the chip will change the Fuel Map usually delivering more fuel at WOT. However, "generally" cruise and partial throttle are not changed much which is 80% of our drivign. Also, most chips will still easily pass emissions tests. (4) CORRECT. I do plan to someday either build a 4.6l or to put in a Powerstoke 2.8l. But in the meantime I'm looking for a "little" more power. Curtis, Please. I dont want to continue this. If you dont think I'm knowlegable, please feel free to disregard my posts or post your opinions but please to not degrade or condemn mine. I dont know you and wont pretend to pass judgement on ;your personality in person. And I hope you wont do the same to me. Maybe someday on a trail somewhere we can meet. And maybe get along. But for know I feel you will not listen to anythign I say seriously. Sorry Everyone for my lengthy post. I'm just getting Very frustrated. Thanks Todd (still wanting to hear from a moderator) | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 974 Registered: 05-2002 |
ROTFLMAO! Damn Todd, Get a grip -Curtis | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 975 Registered: 05-2002 |
Here is an example of why I am so hard on you: "However, I do feel that back to back comparison like Will has done of the same truck, with the same trailer, done before and after the chip can offer a worthwhile comparison. Its not exactly "seat of the pants" but some some quantitative and comparison value." Give me a break. This data is far from quantitiative. It is qualitative. Will said the rig performed better. This is a yes/no qualitative question if I have ever seen one. In a statistical equation you could call the value a (1)Yes and (0) No, but that is just qualitative data using a dummy value on which to base regression. As of yet, your inquiries have yet to reveal any truly quantitatuve data on which someone can base a decision. As you said, we have no dyno results and since every Rover tends to be "unique", I stand by my original point: Give it up. You may gain a little here and there, but the truth is that the LR is designed for offroad *and* street use. The current electronics work fine for this dual-purpose. If you feel the need to hop-up the motor do it right. There are lots of good resources for this info. -Curtis | ||
| Chris von C. (Chrisvonc) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Chrisvonc Post Number: 323 Registered: 07-2002 |
"Curtis, I'd still like to hear from the moderators. So far, I have ridiculed no one. If I'm so out of line why doenst a Moderator speak up. PLEASE! you are the ONLY one I've heard from." Todd, "Lounge Members" ARE moderators for the board. Obviously others as well as the owners did feel that way or your status would not have changed. | ||
| Chris von C. (Chrisvonc) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Chrisvonc Post Number: 324 Registered: 07-2002 |
Jamie, I swear, your posts make me dizzy sometimes trying to follow where it is going. LOL | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 498 Registered: 05-2003 |
Chris, Me too. It's been an unusually tuff week down here. How does that song go?? I'm so dizzy my head is spinning... I wonder if this is what happens before one becomes an airhead??? I SURRENDER I SURRENDER I SURRENDER I SURRENDER I SURRENDER I SURRENDER I SURRENDER | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 176 Registered: 10-2002 |
Chris, Thanks for the Clarification. Curtis, Will did have actual numbers. If your floored up a hill and you can only do 40mph, every time, and after a change you can do 50mph every time, and nothing else changed, I feel thats quantitative. How do you test a theory, you test it by running an experiemtn. Be it 0-60, a dyno, or a pull up a known hill they all give some "number value" that is more than seat of the pants. And again, I do plan to "do it right" someday and build the motor completely (unless I do a TDI) but part of a completely build motor is optimizing the ECU. That is something I can do right now. A ported and Polished motor may be able to use more aggressive tuning specs, but the increases should be present in both motors if done properly. Thanks Todd | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 177 Registered: 10-2002 |
Uhh, I think we killed this thread. :-) Seriously, Thanks for all the comments and help from those that offered it. I heard from people that have had good and bad experiences and thats exactly what I hoped for. I plan to buy the chip but probably not untill I take care of a few things like now Cats and O2 sensors. That means its probably about 4-6 months out for me. I think it will satisfy my needs for the time being and be a worthwhile upgrade. And if I'm not happy I can simply return it under the 30 day gaurantee. Sorry for all the "negativity" that was around throughout the post. But to those that were helpful, THANK YOU! Happy Wheeling Todd | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 979 Registered: 05-2002 |
"I think we killed this thread. :-)" No - it was just never that interesting to begin with. I really did not hear that many people piping up to say thy would be willing to spend money on something that yields negligible results. "Sorry for all the "negativity" that was around throughout the post." Again - I think you miss the point. There was not much negativity in the post. Just because someone does not agree with your thoery does not mean that is "negative". It is simply a provess in pier review which is an essential element in the scientific method. The negativity occurred in the deleted post that got you put on probation. Anyways, I hope I am not making you ANGRY because we all shudder to think what that would be like -Curtis | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 980 Registered: 05-2002 |
Err..that was: "...process is pier review..." | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 454 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well let me wade into this neck deep. "The chip" is a valid mod on my book. Perhaps most of you dont really understand what it is. Its not some addition to your system or an add on part. It is simply a replacement of what you already have that has been exploited to a certain end , just like the one that is in there already. The difference being that the "End" for the stock one was to hit the middle of the road in power and economy in a stock truck. Most of you dont own that any more (Accept me ofcourse). NO , I dont think its gonna part the red sea either but this is one of those mods I like to call "Relevant". If the price is right its certainly not gonna hurt.. If its insane money then a cam change or other mods will certainly give you the same results cheaper. Jamie ? I dont get you. WIll hit it right on the head , if you thought your truck was "Perfect" then you wouldnt have went to nailing shit on it to improve it. Would you ? I find myself wondering why you even jumped into this thread as I have no doubt that you have very little , to NO understanding of this technology... Yes , there have been some real zingers posted on this BBS promising power increase up the wazoo and its just smoke. This will give you power but I feel its worth is relative to the dollar.... Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 474 Registered: 11-2002 |
ok a little chime time back when I got my Disco I felt I had to get a little more "oomph" outa it. I came on this board and declarred I was goona find it. Kyle kinda let me have it and we had a couple really good threads that brought out a number of options. I took my rover to a friends chassic dyno and even though some of the people here said it couldent be done I strapped it on and gave it about 15 hours of play time on the dyno. we pulled the front driveshaft locked the CDL and started ripping on it. we used a flow bench to feed the air to it and a vacume scavenging system to pickup and monitor the exhaust. we played with the timing, vacume advance, fuel rail pressure,we increased the exhaust scavenging to positive vacume to simulate a free flow sytem. my initial plan and hunch was that a set of tri-y headers would add enough torque to be worth the $1000 or so per set figure it would cost for a low volume run of custom tri-y's. What we learned was there was about 5% out there as far as power goes. we got about 5% increase in torque by retarding the spark about 7 degrees . positive vacume on the exhaust did very little if anything in adding torque. we came to the conclusion that if true power gains were going to be had it would take a opened intake, I bigger cam,injectors, and opened exhaust. thyen matching this to a re-mapped ECU or a total replacment with a new injection system such as a howell system that we have used on other vehicles in the past. when you add it all up it just dosent make much sence. I personally came to the conclusion that if I really wanted much more power I would rather just do a engine swap with a Northstar caddy motor. even though I have done a bunch of them I hate engine swaps. they so rarely end up being what you hope and even the best done ones end up being a vehicle of a quirky nature. Disco's are really not that underpowered, so to embark on such a in depth project to correct something that is not that big deal just didnt make sence to me so I decided just to live with what the 3.9 gives me. but if anyone wants to give me a 5.2 to drop in ...I'll take it | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 475 Registered: 11-2002 |
forgot one key thing on power I have seen a number of disco with the same power robbing problem and before you spend a penny you should all check this. there is a adjustment on the throttle cable to compensate for strech in the throttle cable. its a big thumb screw. I have seen lots of used disco's that when you pop the hood there is so much slack in the cable that when the gas pedal is floored the throttle body is only about 3/4 of the way open I would check this before I spent a penny on upgrades | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 509 Registered: 05-2003 |
Kyle, I agree wit you 100%. In retrospect I would NOT have posted to this thread. Period. I waded in my over my head. Gosh, I just hate it when I have to learn by making mistakes. A much better word than "perfect" to describe how I feel about my rover at this moment in time is "CONTENT". You are correct, I did not feel this way until I made the changes to it in order to successfully get thru the areas where I drive it. Prior to those changes, all I accomplished was getting stuck and that brought me little joy. My rover still has it's weaknesses which I hope to someday find a solution for. I am well aware that those areas are going to require guys just like all of you who have the courage to experiment and try new things. You are 100% correct that I have little (if any) knowledge of this technology. However, threads like this widen my understanding and I am grateful for that. Even if I look (or sound) like a total dumb bunny in the learning process, I am continuing to learn. My desire to learn is the reason for my presence on Dweb. At times the learning is "ouchy" and I accidently step into the wrong path, but so be it. I would much prefer to always go down the manageable trail on and offroad. However, that is not reality. I am learning on Dweb just like I do on the trail which threads/roads I have no business heading into. Every path, good or bad teaches us something. One of the most interesting things that I have picked up from this thread is advantages this technology sounds like it would be in other parts of the country. Florida is nothing but flatlands. Yes, we do have mud and swamps - but, I learned the hard way that increasing the power that my stock engine came with only gets me more stuck and dug in deeper. This was a hard and dirty lesson for me to learn. Having said this, I can only repeat that at the present moment in time, I am "content" with my engine performance. HOWEVER, this thread has opened my eyes to the advantages more power would be when climbing mountains and/or dealing with altitudes of decreased O2 levels. I have never even used my rover to drive up a hill yet - so I know nothing about such things. No doubt there are more scenarios out there that I am totally clueless about. Even the words I choose as I attempt to put words to what little understanding I have are probably way off base. Bottom line, is I am continuing to learn. In addition, my respect continues to increase for all of you here because you have sound purposes in mind when it comes to changes. Finally, Rob was right when he said "brainwashed". You guys on Dweb set an admirable example and are a tough act for "other trucks and owners" to follow. I say that most sincerely. You have opened my eyes that I need to work on getting myself back to being more tolerant of "trucks" other than rovers. I guess I have become somewhat of a "snob" myself when I am in the presence of pretty boys with pretty trucks that are load for bear and filled with nitrous oxide tanks AND CHIPS. (I should be extending the same "if that is what floats your boat, go for it" that I extend toward rover and jeep ownwers (no comments please - yes, I like jeeps, jeep owners, and those in my area are very fun and humble - just like rover owners). Upon reflection, I saw red when I read "chips" and charged right in. Hopefully, the next time I see an young offroad jeep owner being looked down upon and put down, I will have the courage to come to his defense right on the spot. Hopefully, that will also prevent me from letting my frustration from that experience spill out inappropriately on a thread here. Regarding the threads of "controversy" in general, it has been my experience that most times these are where really good and difficult to obtain information comes out where one can learn alot. Yeh, sometimes the passion for land rovers spills over in the process which is not always pleasant - but, if it were not for this passion, the keepers of the good stuff would never have obtained the knowledge they have (and the smarts to apply that knowledge to improve rovers). I do enjoy the threads of controversy the most when I stay out of them. Just got another good lesson on that in this thread and in my dumb bunnyness, no doubt I'll do the same bloomin thing again. I need to go on a quest to find an interactive white flag to post for when I do - and while I'm at it, I'd like to find an interactive pink cheerleader that gets posted occassionally -- NOW THAT'S COOL!! Best wishes and good luck to all of you out there with the chips. I have a feeling I'm gonna end up begging for one whenever I begin to drive up mountains... Speaking of begging, can I PLEASE get out of the doghouse yet??? For now, I'm going to go have another try at getting my kitchen sink unclogged. I just found instructions on how to do it in my nifty new search engine by tying in "how to unclog kitchen sink". I have never taken the underneath of a sink apart before. Oh, well... I suppose this will be a new application to use what little "rover" tools I have acquired. Thanks again for the continuing education, Jamie | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 440 Registered: 04-2003 |
Peer review, not pier review. Unless you're looking at a sturdy boat dock for information. Sorry, Curtis, figured while you were nit-picking Todd you opened yourself up to some nit-picking. Andy | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1341 Registered: 02-2003 |
jamie, just to clairify, the brainwashed comment was more about feeling that your truck is the only one that can wheel. it's not. jeeps being the best alternative, but various toyota and other makes can go a lot of places too. i dislike the trucks that go fast (and only fast) but i respect the talent it takes to make them. chips aren't my thing because i'm not wishing i had more power. i would easily trade some power for fuel economy but then again i am planning on strapping more metal for my car so that will not happen anytime soon. just keep learning and most importantly try to figure things out for yourself. much more satisfaction and a deeper learning is achieved. now it's snowing out again and sadam is caught so i think i will celebrate by driving around in the white stuff -rob | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 981 Registered: 05-2002 |
Andrew - Got me! It was late;) -C | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 982 Registered: 05-2002 |
"Well let me wade into this neck deep. "The chip" is a valid mod on my book." OK - now it is time for me to get myself in deep. The problem with most chips is that they are set for a stock engine. In many states that have emissions requirements, there may or may not be a problem. Further complicating the issue may be other mods that one might do: cam, 4.6 conversion, exhaust and intake mods. There really is no baseline setup to account for these unless the chip is customized for these mods. This likely explains why the RPi chip is so expensive. What I think would be intresting would be an EPROM chip with software that you could set and change the fuel mapping and timing. This could be of real help and I could see value in this application. I am sure Todd is well aware of these EPROMS because I believe they make them for Audis. I know they make them for most Japanese makes. Now - the reality is that this probably won't happen for the Disco because the market is too small. I think this topic of programmable chips came up a year or two ago and there was someone who was going to give it a try, but we never got an update. In the end, I agree with Musky. It just becomes too much of a pain in the ass for too little gain. If Powerchip is willing to give a money-back guarantee...hell..why not? I personally have other crap to spend money on first though, and like Rob said, most of this stuff will just be slowing me down more anyways. -Curtis | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 179 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hmm, Curtis, I wonder if your onto something. YOu7r right about the E-Proms for Audis. Actually on the Powerchip Website they specify that they replace the stock unit with a socket so that the Rover E-Prom can be easily removed and modified. Now my friends shop www.achtuning.com just bought a kick ass soldering rig for E-Proms so they can do chip mods in house without shipping the ECU out to the vendors. I'm sort of wondering if one of the guys I know that re-maps the Audi chips could do a rover chip, make a few different versions and test them out. I have no idea what the code is like in the Rover E-Prom though. Thats getting beyond my scope of knowledge. I leave that to the Software guys. :-) Alternatively, someone on this list (or maybe it was the RRO list) has a Rover with MOTEC which is a very nice aftermarket EFI system. A little pricy but the WOLF 3D system is more affordable and infinately tunable by plugging it into a laptop. There are others out there as well such as SDI, Wolf, Motec, and some others that are much cheaper. Check out this site http://www.034efi.com/034ecu.html And maybe if you like Audi's at all then check the designers car out http://www.80tq.com Problem is, TIME. A nice system could be developed, but my original hope in starting this thread (which it seems some people are interested in :-) was that there was an offordable chip out there that would yield decent results for what I wanted / needed. I have toyed with the idea of throwign a couple K04 Turbos on the side of the 3.9l and running an aftermarket EFI system. BUT, I dont think the Red Hot Turbo's would like being repetitively dunked underwater when they are hot. :-) NEED MORE COFFEE. Thanks for listening l8r Todd | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) On Probation Username: Toddp Post Number: 180 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oh, Before anyone comes down hard on the "FUEL ONLY" 034efi system. Version-2 of this system has fuel and ignition and version 2.2 can run individual coils for each cylinder. Just thought I'd mention that. l8r Todd | ||
| Luis Constantin (Luisc) Member Username: Luisc Post Number: 166 Registered: 02-2003 |
I just got back and wanted to check on the prgress of this thread. Interesting to say the least. Given that I have tried the Powerchip without satisfaction, what I was looking for was the ability to pass granny on the freeway in her 1986 V6 Oldsmobile going 45 in a 65 zone. My inability to nail the accelerator and get in to flowing traffic without getting nailed from behind was my deciding factor in trying out the chip. Also, downtown Austin, I35 has some very short on ramps, less than 75ft in some places. With the pedal floored, I may reach 45MPH while merging with traffic going 65. This is scary sometimes. Many people, specially those in 4 cylinder cars, have the same problem. Hence, all the rearend collisions on I35. I was never really looking to blow someone's doors off from a lighted intersection. I just wanted to be able to get the hell out of the way. My biggest improvement thus far has been the headwork. Best bang for the buck. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1179 Registered: 09-2002 |
Luis, I believe your problem can be solved by adjusting the kickdown cable. | ||
| Luis Constantin (Luisc) Member Username: Luisc Post Number: 167 Registered: 02-2003 |
Done that already. Downshifts with just a small push of the pedal. Dealer doesn't like it though and said that it might cause premature failure of the transmission. He compared it to GM's slushbox, saying that it searches for the right gear too much. Not with me it doesn't. My foot is either in it or not. On the gas or on the brake. But it shifts out at 4200RPM. I would rather it run up to about 4800-5000 at least. Personal opinion; that's lost useable pulling range for such a small V8. | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) Member Username: Toddp Post Number: 183 Registered: 10-2002 |
Luis, Agreed. Esp with your head work, you should be good to go till maybe 5k rpm. Did you do a Cam as well? Do you have pics of the head work you did? I'll be porting my heads when I pull them to do head gaskets. (Hopefully not for at LEAST 6-months. I basically was just plannign on matchign the Intake/Exh manifolds and head ports to the Gasket size which on most heads (not sure about rover) have larger gaskets than ports. Then I was just going to knock down the roughness inside and blend to the port openings but I have no plans to actually change the flow inside the head chambers, just smooth out the rought stuff. How extensive did you go. I'm assuming afterwards you rebuilt the heads with new guides, seals, etc? As for the kickdown adjustment wheel, I have mine as tight as possible. But even in 2nd gear at 4,000 RPM lugging up the pass with a load I could still use more power. Ugh, what I wouldnt' give for a 2.8 powerstroke. :-) Thanks Todd | ||
| Luis Constantin (Luisc) Member Username: Luisc Post Number: 168 Registered: 02-2003 |
Sorry. No pictures. I never really thought about taking pictures of my work. I did almost exactly what your planning on doing. Didn't do a cam yet. Been researching though. Looking for someone who makes a roller stick. And I really don't want to mess with the profile too much. Maybe open the exhaust more, that's it. Start opening the intake side too much and you can lose low end torque. I've also thought of putting a spacer between the plenum and base plate to raise the ceiling of the plenum from the trumpets and get les restrictive airflow there. Don't think that would hurt torque. On the older Discos, the transmission has a mechanical governor that will shift up the gears and keep from downshifting too soon so as to prevent people like me from grenading the engine,(did that with the Harley a few years ago. Drive belt broke during a race.) |
