| Author | Message | ||
     Victor Biro (Vabiro) New Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi, I am looking for information on preparing my Disco I for extreme cold (-50F) in preparation for an arctic expedition. I seem to be able to find some info on the generalities, but nothing specific. For example things like the best choice for fluids. Any help would be appreciated. Victor | ||
| Shawn McKenzie (Shawn) Member Username: Shawn Post Number: 148 Registered: 10-2002 |
Go with a synthetic multi weight everywhere. Get the biggest spread for viscosity you can. I run 5w50 oil and 75/90 in the differentials. Use a 'name' manufacturer, costs more, but they spend more $ on R&D for their additives IMHO. Don't mess around with the -30 washer fluid, I've had it turn to slushy muck that wont flow. Get the -45F stuff. Don't know where to get it in US, but available everywhere in Canada. Use synthetic/lithium based grease in your prop shafts, the black generic grease turns as hard as frozen butter. Ensure your door seals are OK. When you get a little condensation on the seals, then it freezes, you can't get out of the truck without ripping the seals apart. Consider a thin film of petroleum jelly on the bits where rubber seals against metal. This is for the extreme cold you mentioned. Obviously, make sure your cooling system is up to spec, as your motor works plenty hard pushing snow. A bad thermostat will kill you if you're alone at -50F. Ensure you use the lowest temperature rated halogen oil you can find. Losing your headlights in the arctic will dim your perspective.  | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 937 Registered: 09-2002 |
yea get the -45 washer fluid. Good stuff and second the condensation on the door seals. When it freezes, doors pretty much stuck. Stuck doors in really cold weather sucks big time. Also carry lock de-icer on you at all times just in case. Good for doors and fuel cap. If you have a tire cover you can hide lock de-icer stuff in there in case you forget. Synthetics make a huge difference in really cold weather so go with it if you can. | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 589 Registered: 09-2002 |
-50F, damn that sounds chilly. I bitch when it's +50F at night SC | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 471 Registered: 02-2003 |
done one -40Deg F start....then installed a block heater......everything really feels stiff at those temperatures...... | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 938 Registered: 09-2002 |
LOL... completely forgot about the block heater. I kind of took it for granted but hell yea, if you're going up there, get a cold weather package installed in your truck which is essentially a block heater. You're going to need to plug that baby in at night. If you don't at those temperatures, you're probably not going anywhere. I've seen some guys put a hibatchi under there before. Not sure that's something I'd do but I've seen it done before. If you have leather seats in that kind of weather, it's going to feel like you're sitting on an ice tray. Not pleasant. | ||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) New Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2003 |
anyone have any idea how much a block heater retrofit costs for a DII / how complicated to install / what weight it adds / are they typically 120V in NAS ??? | ||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 186 Registered: 10-2003 |
rovers north has a heater that splices into the rad. hose. Anybody use one of these? I never really felt happy with the freeze plug heater types. They seem like they have a good chance of leaking at some point in their life... Of course I live in the desert so this thread really don't need my input | ||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 187 Registered: 10-2003 |
heres the link for the heaters... http://catalog.roversnorth.com/catalog/large.taf?id=engine_heater | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 463 Registered: 11-2002 |
the freeze plug units are a better way to go. the heater hose/rad hose units seam to only heat the water in the top of the block and this tricks the injection system into thinking the motor is warmer then it really is causing the stepper/idle circuit to stall the motor. I also would install dual batteries in battery blankets. optima's really shine in cold weather, the coil condensor discharge batteries dont loose as many amps as standard lead acid type batteries as the temp drops. also get a grill cover that you can close down and restrict airflow across the rad. because these trucks are set up to go into 120* deserts that same huge Rad can drop 25* in 10 seconds when the cold wind is blowing. also as was mentioned above have extra thermostats because cold weather will really give them a workout.at night you always want to close off the front of the grill and park the truck tail into the wind. before you shut down in the evening it helps to put the transfercase into nuetral. so when you start in the am you can put the trans in gear and spin both the trans and the input side of the TC as the truck warms up. this will do wonders for that stiffness in the drivetrain those first miles of the day. also avoid hard braking right before stoping for the night. the heat from braking causes condensation that will freeze the pads to the rotors. I once saw a guy smoke a stiff frozen auto trans trying to brake his frozen brakes free. also one rule of thumb that people that live in arctic conditions live by is have enough survival gear along to spend the night at anytime. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 464 Registered: 11-2002 |
oh almost forgot...Ho,Kyle ,AX,john ...I still want to do Dusy in the winter | ||
| Rudd B. Thabes (Thabes) New Member Username: Thabes Post Number: 4 Registered: 09-2003 |
I have used both frost plug (block) heaters and radiator hose heaters. The block heaters are adequate for most arctic applications and I have never had one leak. The hose heaters can be obtained in a higher wattage than the block heaters and at 1500 watts can keep your coolant at near operating temperature. Another consideration would be an electric battery blanket to keep your battery warm. This all assumes you will have access to 120 V current. If you don't have access to 120 V current you have a couple of other options; granted they may be awkward. One is to drain your oil when you shut down, re-heat it in the morning a pour it back in. Another is to carry and old fashioned blow torch and use it to gently warm your oil sump in the morning. Don't bother with a propane torch as at much below -20F they don't have enough pressure to work. Change oil frequently. At -50 to -60F you will find that your rings will contract allowing gasoline to blow past them and dilute your oil. When this happens, you can actually smell the gasoline in your oil when you check it. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1316 Registered: 02-2003 |
Thom... LOL I still want to see you try it! rob | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 467 Registered: 11-2002 |
Rob the only way to see it is to come along i know ho is in with his snow-ho-mobile  | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 472 Registered: 05-2003 |
Marine quality power inverter with very loud audible alarm to wake you up warning you of low battery voltage. Electric blanket to plug into the inverter at bedtime | ||
| Mike Pelechaty (Tonga) Member Username: Tonga Post Number: 69 Registered: 03-2003 |
Hi Victor, a couple simple additions to the above. Although you are probably running your heater already considering where you are from, ensure it is working A1. Have the thermostat inspected, pack a spare, and have the fluids flushed and replaced with the appropriate temp. range antifreeze. Get a good ice scraper/brush and replace your wipers with winter blades. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 605 Registered: 04-2001 |
0w40 mobil one Block heater or two Synthetics in diffs and T-case Rad muff, I might even pull the fan if it were that cold all the time. Ron | ||
| Bill Ross (Billr) Member Username: Billr Post Number: 116 Registered: 11-2002 |
One thing not mentioned so far and its only an irritant, is that when it gets down below about -20C or so, the bloody steering damper is so stiff that you get no return on the steering. Works fine above that temp and it also gradully works its way out as it gets heat from the engine compartment, but those first few miles get a bit interesting in the corners. Also not noted are all the weird things that can break at those temps. I've had switches snap off, various pieces of plastic trim crack, light bulbs pop. On the other hand, I've never had the locks freeze or any major mechanical problems thanks to a good fall prep with the appropriate syn lubes and coolant changes. Now if I could just bring myself to fix my drivers side seat heater..... By the way, this isn't just Rover stuff either. I had a SAAB that had many of the same cold-weather issues. And a Swedish car too...go figure. | ||
| dennis clifton (Flyor) New Member Username: Flyor Post Number: 11 Registered: 05-2003 |
On my 87 RRC I ran a block heater (freeze plug type) and had an auto start that would start the engine every two hours and run it for ten minutes. Also ran all synthetics. Worked great in northern Michigan. The coldest it ever got when I was up there was about -25F | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 476 Registered: 05-2003 |
Jeez, now I'm having a panic attack sitting at my computer (not really - but darn close - it started when I read this last night and I'm still envisioning the same scenario) - dogs and I driving down snowy road, slide off, and ending up in a ditch - arrival in ditch ok, but doors are frozen closed. Dog guard is up, cargo area is full - no room or way to move stuff around to escape from the rear. Sunroof escape is blocked by roof rack rails. Could that happen??? When doors freeze closed, do the power windows freeze too? How do you get out?? Only thing I can think of is using maglite to break out window - which would compromise heat of what little shelter warmth we might have if we couldn't trek out. Conditions you are describing are unimaginable to me - no matter how hard I try. Wondering if this is one of the reasons tourists to the snow end up freezing to death in their vehicles?? | ||
| p (Pfb) Member Username: Pfb Post Number: 80 Registered: 08-2003 |
Don't forget synthetic power steering fluid! My '94 Disco steering box is stiff as hell even at around 0, let alone 40 below. | ||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 194 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jamie right, thats some SCARY thoughts! I guess we just don't wheel alone in the deep cold...but some of y'all gotta wheel the deep stuff just to get to work!!!! I'm glad I live in here and not there! | ||
| Max Thomason (Lrmax) Senior Member Username: Lrmax Post Number: 273 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jamie, Here is what you do: Bust out the RAVE CD and follow the instructions to take off the interior door panel. Then take your handy dandy pocket knife to cut through that plastic crap they've got covering the door. Then deice the door handle from the interior. Should take no more than 20 minutes. The fact that you'd be doing it from the inside the truck should make it interesting. I'm sure it will be an adventure . Max T. | ||
| Mike (Mikem) Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 64 Registered: 02-2003 |
Jamie, If all else fails, break the window to get out. As far as shelter, just build a snow cave and crawl in with the dogs...you'll stay nice and warm. Mike | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 479 Registered: 05-2003 |
Oh, gee whiz... no way I'd make it 20 minutes to disassemble the door. If I ever get in that mess, I'm breaking the window out for sure. These may be ridiculous questions, but while this is on the table, I might as well ask: I've had on may "maybe someday wish list": breaker bar with 1 1/4 inch deep well socket (or maybe it was 1 1/2"? - I forget, that list is in my truck) for better ease in removing tire lug nuts. Does a "breaker bar" also do what the name suggests? Like breaking out a window easily? If so, I'm getting one for sure before I ever head north or northwest and going to find out where is best place to stow it safely within reach.. Next question (I've never wondered about this before), IF one needed to break one of the windows out with Maglight or whatever else is handy, how does the Disco glass react as you hit it? What does the glass do when broken by direct impact? (as in direction it falls as broken, does it all stay together when it's shattered?) If I ever do get in that situation, and am contemplating which one of the windows I am going to take out - at least I won't have to sit there annoyed with myself and thinking - I knew I should have asked that! Mike, if I ever do find myself in that situation and can't trek out, hopefully my rover will still run, so I can attach power inverter to run my electric blanke in our snow cave!!. In think I'll put a pile of the snow in a zip lock bag to melt while I'm sleeping and drink it when I wake up If my rover won't start, at least I know I've got enough juice onboard to run my electric blanket overnight with plug in DC inverter. Maybe after night of good sleep, I will be able to come up with better game plan for evacuation. uh, oh ... a big flaw: I just realized that I had better put an electric blanket in my truck or none of that will work. Now, I need to start a whole new list.... Thanks in advance, Jamie | ||
| John Kruger (Johnnyk) Senior Member Username: Johnnyk Post Number: 261 Registered: 02-2002 |
Interesting thread. What is your intended route? Will you be traveling with other vehicles? Many of the above suggestions are great, but you should also consider what it will take to complete the different stages of your route and the ability of others traveling with you. John | ||
| quentin charles neil ross (Qcnr) New Member Username: Qcnr Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi I live in Norway so i can give you some tips. Do you have petrol or diesel?? If diesel make sure you fill with arctic diesel, although this should be the only type available where you are going. Get some form of engine preheater (preferably Webasto or Eberspacher), but make sure your batteries, and charging are 110% If you have grease in your swivelhousings change to oil Change all your oils to dedicated arctic type oils, get info from oilcompanies. A grillcover is of little use you must cover the radiator directlybut only 2/3 to 4/5 not completly. Change your thermostat to a higher temp one Fit a heated front screen, but again make sure your electrical system is tiptop. Fit proper winter/ snow tyres Get good clothing. Also get some disposable BBQs incase your preheater, fails oils freeze. This happened to an expedition from N Norway to Murmansk when the temp dropped to -56C for several days. At this temp boiling water (100C) when trown from a cup will be ice before it hit the ground!!!!!!! | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 483 Registered: 05-2003 |
Cancel the electric blanket, I'm trading it in for one of those survival shovels. Now I UNDERSTAND why you carry those!! www.etisurvival.com/snocv.htm It is an unusual experience learning about these things when we specialize in survival in the heat... | ||
| Victor Biro (Vabiro) New Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi all and thanks for all the suggestions. Paraphrasing, The areas of concern could be broken down as: Fluids: - Synthetic multi-weight everywhere - Winshield washer Anti-freeze should be of the -45 degree variety - Engine Anti-freeze, 100%, not diluted (an assumption I'm making) -Use synthetic/lithium based grease in your prop shafts - Don't forget the power steering fluid - Block heater (already have) - Use winter formulation of fuel Electrical: - Ensure that all elements of charging system are up-to spec or above - Dual battery with Isolator (possably?) - Battery Blanket - Inverter for electric blanket (thanks for the idea Jamie;-)) Tires: - Snow tires - Bring chains for all 4 tires - Two Spare tires. (Side walls are susceptible to damage in extreme cold) General: - Bring at least 1 day, optimally 4 days, of provisions. - Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) http://www.landroveradventure.com/article.php?sid=24 - Shovel As some have pointed out I do live in Canada, but in the southern-most part of the country. We have a booming fruit and wine region just to the west of Toronto. However drive 45 minutes north this week and they are without power due to the snow storms hitting the NE. Buffalo, 28 miles south of us, gets some of the worst winter weather around. Toronto is a bit of an anomaly, benefiting from the presence of Lake Ontario to our south, as much as it hurts Buffalo having it to its North. Since I posted this request I have found a few interesting pages, including the Royal Geographical Society's Expedition Advisory Centre (http://www.rgs.org/category.php?Page=mainexpeditions) which has lots of information on the preparations for Arctic Expeditions, but nothing specific to vehicle preparation. For those that were asking about further information on my journey, I'm looking at a February 2005 Departure and my route can be seen: http://www.landroveradventure.com/images/arctic_large.gif Thanks all Victor | ||
| Milan (Milan) Senior Member Username: Milan Post Number: 312 Registered: 10-2002 |
Bring lots of fuel, don't turn the engine off, don't stop anywhere for more than 10 mins and you should be fine. | ||
| John E. King, Jr. (Cadet007) Member Username: Cadet007 Post Number: 41 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hello, It's been a while since I've wrote in, but this discussion is right up my alley. I live in North Pole, Alaska, just outside of Fairbanks. Today is the first day in a little over a week that it has gotten above 0 degrees. It got all the way down to about -50 (without wind chill). Here's some advice: Since you won't be up here very long I don't think I would go with all of the stuff people are talking about. Here's a very basic list: Block heater Transmission heater Good Anti-Freeze Survival Kit Snow Cables/Chains Good Driving Lights (It's very dark up here now, but the northern lights are great) Shovel Recovery Kit Roads up here are built on platforms. If you go off there's a good chance you'll roll. I had such an experience. I didn't roll but I now have a Rovertym bumper if you get my drift. Chances are you will not be parking your vehicle for long periods of time so your fluids won't have time to get too cold on you. Things do get very stiff though at very cold temperatures. My best advice is to take your time and let things warm up and then drive slowly the first few miles to let things lubricate and move around. Get Chevron gas whenever you get the chance and be very careful of mom and pop gas stations. The Alaskan Highway through Canada is covered with them. You'll need to carry multiple gas cans and two spares. I've driven the highway twice from Michigan to Alaska and it's a very tough road. It turned my stock tires into hamburger. If you have any other questions let me know. You will break a windshield on the trip. Give me a holler on your way through here. I'd love to see how your trip goes. John | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 484 Registered: 05-2003 |
Victor, Kudos for the VERY SMART move taking the PBL with you. I'm sure you know that even with that, you still need to plan for self survival for at least a short period of time (meaning a few days). It may take awhile for SAR teams to reach you. What kind of medical supplies are you taking with you, if any? This is my personal favorite, it's pretty complete, compact, good for first responder, yet hopefully enough supplies to last for a few days if you need to get someone out via the ground. http://www.dyna-med.com/style.html?style=TK031&assort=general_catalog Gosh, I wish I was going with you, that will be the trip of a lifetime. I'm so happy for you that you get to go! Good luck (with an extra sprinkle of wisdom on top) in your planning! Jamie p.s. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE email us pics of the northern lights!!! | ||
| Victor Biro (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jamie, Thanks for the link. I have actually been half-heartedly looking for Dyna-Med's site. They make some great stuff that's hard to find at a reasonable price. I actually have a fairly extensive BLS kit, and have had some BLS training through some years of volunteer work with St. John Ambulance here in Canada. But you can rarely be too well trained or prepared. Additionally, preparing to keep someone alive for days, rather than for a few minutes until the paramedic arrives, carry a different set of needs. Thanks Victor | ||
| Jim Macklow (Macklow) New Member Username: Macklow Post Number: 26 Registered: 03-2003 |
A few years ago I owned a 4WD VW Vanagon, and was pretty active in a Vanagon mail list. A bunch of the members decided to do a trip like yours (to Inuvik, right?). Although they departed in July, you might find their insights interesting (although a bit dated as they went up in 1996). Check out http://www.vanagon.com/journeys/inuvik/ | ||
| Brian O'Connor (Hooky) New Member Username: Hooky Post Number: 40 Registered: 09-2003 |
Jamie, Like John I used to live in AK, down the road a bit from him in Salcha - he'll know where the area is, real close to the Knotty Shop and across from the fair grounds :-) I miss my 40 acres up there!! Anyhow I digress, I think the key bases to cover have been listed by Thom, Rudd, and John. As for being frozen in the Disco... I got froze into my 4runner on a Caribou hunt once, a friend and I slept in it when the temp dipped to -35, our breathing made too much humidity... Ben held the door latch, and I kicked at the door. It was amusing to say the least, the only other time it happened was when I got my FJ40 door seals wet during early breakup, I was able to hold the door latch and slam into the door with my body and get it open. Never had a problem with the Disco, or GMs I drove up there, but did have the door panel shatter in the S-10... Anyhow, when it's cold, don't touch metal bits with your bare skin. Sounds pretty much like a no brainer, but you'd be surprised. BTW at -55 to get cable off the spool (Warn XD 9000 anyway) I had to power out, no free spooling there even after some heavy pulling. You are on the right track to becoming prepared � which is critical for backcountry driving in the artic! Good news is all those black spruce will stay in the ground for you when you need them instead of pulling out. If you are going to be away from an HBO (head bolt outlet) one of those command starts with a thermostatically controlled start can be handy if you are going to be away from the truck for prolonged periods if you can keep it gassed up. Plan for greatly reduced fuel mileage as well. As your truck breaks in, you may be surprised at what temps it�ll start without being plugged in! LR Anchorage didn�t recommend transmission heaters, or battery pads while I was up there� and they only installed freeze plug block heaters, really the only way to go! Those hose heaters really suck! Always when it gets butt cold they screw up, leak, etc. I partially froze my right foot due to one of them, in a buddies Chevy P/U� two wrongs don�t make a right J I guess I�m just rambling now � lots of memories� Good luck!!! Brain | ||
| Victor Biro (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi, A couple of people have mentioned transmission heaters. I've heard of transmission coolers, but not heaters. What can someone tell me about them. Victor | ||
| Brian O'Connor (Hooky) Member Username: Hooky Post Number: 41 Registered: 09-2003 |
Victor, Transmission/oil pan heaters are also much like battery "pads" but smaller. Battery blankets suck, they go around the battery, usually tied on � they are a goat rope and don�t work too well. The pad goes under the battery, and heat rises... Transmission/oil pan heaters are made of the same stuff, a heavy rubberized pad with heating elements within and a cord and plug. You use RTV to glue them to the fluid reservoirs, use zip-ties to route the cords up to a outlet box mounted on your firewall (if there is room), then you have a cord/plug run out through the grill and you are setup for HBO use. My Disco only has a single freeze plug type block heater. That�s all LR Anchorage recommended for my D1 when I bought it. When it was really cold -35 or colder, the trans was pretty sluggish, but everything is at that temp. Most folks that live there know the deal though. Warm up your motor a few minutes, put it in gear and drive easy until the car wants to work, then you are fine. Another good point to consider � separate from the heater issue is tires flatting. Especially if you are running tires with tall side walls, a wicked cold snap can cause the tire and rim to freeze at different rates, loosing the bead. More than likely you will not notice the difference until you try and drive off, and what ever corner that went flat sinks once the frozen position has been lost. In seven years that happened to me twice though, some folks have more trouble then others, and it�s likely you will not know you are going to have a problem with it until it�s too late. Also I used 2-loggers cam chains, and 5-5000lb tie down straps in addition to my winch for self recovery. The black spruces are very week and trees in the taiga areas are thin and pitiful. Often times I�d have to run my winch line out and rig a �fan� out to several trees, to give me the anchor needed. The tie downs worked like a charm, cheap, easy to rig, light to carry through deep mud or snow, and available at any industrial hardware store. Running on again� Hope the info is useful anyone wanting to play in the cold and snow� B | ||
| Alan E. Foster (Vt_alan) New Member Username: Vt_alan Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2003 |
A symptom that I experienced in VA of all places in a '87 Pathfinder was, after driving through deep snow and parking for the night, waking up to discover that melted snow had ingressed into the starter, and frozen! ... took a few minutes with a camp stove under there to defrost it; not life-threatening, but an unanticipated symptom of the cold; bottom line, take 5 minutes before you leave and make sure the starter can only breathe out. |
