| Author | Message | ||
     Scott Scott (Scottoz) Member Username: Scottoz Post Number: 139 Registered: 02-2003 |
I have said before that I am impressed with my experiences with ETC on sand. Here is a page from Overlander http://www.overlander.com.au/pg/vehicle_search.php?id=172 - a very experienced Australian Mag - that deals briefly with it. Also have a look at the home page and search for Discovery and the first article listed is a comparo between the Disco and Jeep Grand Larado. Even with its Quadra trac axle locks the ETC ALONE equiped Disco II (rectangular lights) gets a better off road rap (and better on road handling). Thought that might cheer your day. | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 170 Registered: 05-2003 |
Waiting for FORD to put in a decent engine. (What they said) But wait! Then Ford would have to beef up the drive train and axels.  | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1184 Registered: 09-2002 |
Scott, looking in the article you mentioned (from the home page), I could only find this bit related to Quadra-Drive vs ETC setup:
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| Scott Scott (Scottoz) Member Username: Scottoz Post Number: 140 Registered: 02-2003 |
i mean the off road comparrison in that articel that puts Dico ahead. It was the diesel v v8 article that had ETC working well on slippery surfaces and sand | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1304 Registered: 02-2002 |
Apples/Oranges: Quadra-drive is fully mechanical and unlikely to let you down. A simple sensor failure will not render it inoperative. A disco2 without CDL and an inoperative ETC leaves you with one wheel drive. A bit different for 04 Disco's with CDL, but still left with 2 wheel drive in that scenario Not trying to fan the flames of this ongoing debate, but just pointing out a few things when comparing stock vehicles. Bill | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1644 Registered: 04-2002 |
What exactly is quadra drive? I wish they would just call it like it is and not use silly brand names. I understand that they do it for people who don't know what a locking diff or LSD is but they'll need to explain to those people what quadra drive is too. I always thought quadra (4) drive was just Jeeps 4wd with ETC. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1185 Registered: 09-2002 |
Al, QuadraDrive is a combination of a progressively-tight center diff (lockable) with two progressively-tight axle diffs. They use gerotor pumps driven off the difference in the rate of rotation of two shafts, and these pumps clamp together the clutch disks to override the differential. It remains to be seen how reliable this set-up is, but IMHO it is by far the best, and the only one out there like that (barring triple-Torsens on some obscure rigs, like Quattros). Scott, I could point out a bunch of things that make ZJ or WJ Grand Cherokee inferior to a Disco, but this and the other article missed them all. | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1645 Registered: 04-2002 |
Sounds cool. Thanks Peter. So MB, Jeep (even the TJ), and even H2's have some sort of locking axle diffs. | ||
| Scott Scott (Scottoz) Member Username: Scottoz Post Number: 141 Registered: 02-2003 |
Peter - I take your point about ETC's potential to fail. I am am fan of mechanical action and simple mechanics! My brother has a 4wd shop that specialises is raising and making ready for competition vehicles using lockers front and rear with a host of suspension changes - in particular Land Cruisers and Nissan Patrols (and lately Defenders). Having said that there is no getting away from the how good the Disco is off road compared to the Grand Cherokee. For whatever reason Jeep manage to use live axels but get far less articulation that Disco (probably because of Monocoque construction). The all alloy v8 in the dicso helps because of less weight. Also in my opinion the low down torque of the 'old fashioned' disco mill is what nails things off road - max torgue at 2600rpm and plenty of it. It might have less torque than say a 4.5 litre Toyo or a 4.8 litre Patrol, but there max torgue is at around 3600 rpm - its the disco's tractors like low end grunt and very low gearing in low range (in Australia its the lowest out of the big wagons) thats really makes things easy. 2cw | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1188 Registered: 09-2002 |
Hi Scott, JGC's articulation problem has two origins - very short leading/trailing arms, and Jeep's body being very lightweight (there is probably more reasons, but these are two that stand out). The WJ's V8 is a newer overhead-cam thing, I'm sure it has plenty of power above 3k rpm, but I bet the old Dodge 318 (before 99) had more torque low down (not counting the 360 in 98 Limited). But... All I would want from it is these limited slip diffs in my Disco's axles. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 479 Registered: 11-2002 |
you can keep them peter...they are tooooo tight I have a friend that hates his and wants his old JGC back. on snowy roads the truck wants to turn sideways and in corners when its wet it plows/understeers with anything but the smallest amount of throttle. I have driven it and it is a wee bit tight for use on icey roads IMHO | ||
| Scott Scott (Scottoz) Member Username: Scottoz Post Number: 142 Registered: 02-2003 |
Peter - we used to get the 318 cube and the 360 in Australia in the Australian made Chyslers (Valiant, Regal). The 318 was a pearler. Heaps of grunt and a lot of revs (bit like the 327 Chev). 360 was a stump puller but really a bit of a truck motor for a passenger sedan - would have been nice in the Jeeps though. | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Senior Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 290 Registered: 02-2002 |
Thom, I've had a different experience altogether with the JGC w/ Quadra Drive. I've driven my wife's JGC in the snow / ice around Chicago. It's probably performs better in the snow / ice than any vehicle I've owned with the possible exception of an Audi A4 quattro that I owned a few years ago. With Mud-terrain tires, & detroit / TT combo, my Disco is just plain terrible. It's all over the place. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1310 Registered: 02-2002 |
I've "heard" (second hand knowledge only), that Mopar has had a lot of trouble getting the quadra-drive set up consistently - ie: all diffs the same. That may account for the differences in driving perception. Bill | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1647 Registered: 04-2002 |
Mike, the only thing worse than Mud tires in the snow is track or high performance tires. | ||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Senior Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 287 Registered: 10-2003 |
tj's don't come with any locker standard. they offer a trash-lok as an option ,and the elec. triggered air locker standard with the rubicon option. | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 171 Registered: 05-2003 |
Mike, Ditto to what Al said. I had very good luck with Michelin LTX for snow tires, but that was 7 years ago and there are probably even better tires out there now. | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1650 Registered: 04-2002 |
Lewis, you're right they're not standard except for the Rubicon.... but it's available. I'm just happy that the last of the (non-IFS) Disco's will have a CDL standard again. | ||
| James Sanzone (Albert) New Member Username: Albert Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2003 |
I had a JGC 5.9 360, it was awesome. I really liked it better than my disco. Its just about impossible to find a good one with low miles that has not been ragged out. Great off-road and on road its like a 4x4 corvette. Although the throttle response was tricky compared to the disco. |
