| Author | Message | ||||
     Christian Frezza (Christian) New Member Username: Christian Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2002 |
What do you say when a friend/aquaintence says "Hey, so and so bought a Hummer 2 or I'm thinking of buying a H2" etc.? I don't know if I should be happy for them, envious or if I should say save your money and buy a Range Rover...What's your advice or response to this cliche' vehicle that seems to be seen more on the road then our LR's or Disco's??? | ||||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 498 Registered: 11-2002 |
if all your into is being seen get the H2 paint it orange and stretch it 20ft...everyone will want to know who you are  | ||||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Senior Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 319 Registered: 10-2003 |
you CAN pose in a DII, but with an H2 ALL you can do is pose! | ||||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1661 Registered: 04-2002 |
I like the school bus yellow H2's myself.  If they want an H2 then they should get an H2. If they ask you what to get for $40k then tell them a 2004 D2. If they ask what to get for $55k tell them a 2004 D2 and save the rest. If they want to spend $70k then my vote would be for a G500 over the RR. | ||||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 79 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hahaha.......I think you would be noticed in anything painted orange and stretched 20 feet. Personally, I like the idea of the H2, just don't like the reason why most people buy them. Those 35" tires and rear locker make easy work of about anything I would want to subject my daily driver to. Not saying a Rover can't do just as good with a few grand stuffed into it. I do like to see that manufacturers are still building wheelable trucks right off the lot. I would hate to see everything go unitbody and four wheel indenpendent suspension--and I dont care how well it wheels if it has those traits. Just try to lift an all independent suspension more than 2 inches. Lets face it, I dont know if I will ever be ready to embrace a new Disco with some Explorer inspired underpinings. So, maybe some day down the road the enticement of a 6.0 Liter Vortec, 35's, and an Eaton Locker will get the best of me. Just as long as it is not still cool to put 24 inch "spinnaz" under one. I say be happy for your friend but kick his ass if he won't take it wheeling or even mentions chrome in the same sentence as his truck. Just my $.02. | ||||
| Victor Biro (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2003 |
Christian, I have to agree with Matt, that given the potential for a very different Disco, maybe a Hummer would be an option, but the operative word for me is "Maybe". Our Land Rover club regularly goes out on the trails with the Hummer Owners Group. In fact the president of the HOG is a member of our Land Rover group. Both groups have a healthy respect for each other's preferred vehicle. Having said that, only a couple of weeks ago I was leading a diverse group of vehicles including Hummer H1s, H2s, Xerras, even a Lexus LX450. We were going through a rather snug trail frequented more often by Quadrunners and dirt bikes. One of the NOVICE Hummer H2 owners wailed into the radio that his truck was getting scratched to shit. That was one owner of 5 that we were traveling with. Now maybe the group we were with was atypical, given that they did come out to spend some time off-road, communing with nature as the Hummer and Land Rover was intended, but that was one whiner in five. What we regularly see is that there are plenty of poseurs amongst Land Rover and Hummer owners, and there needs to be more. Their leases expire after three or four years and leave those of us with less taste for the prestige of SUV ownership with a dearth of well-maintained and serviced vehicles that have already taken the hit in resale. Encourage your friend to get an H1 with Eaton Lockers and the Mile Marker Hydraulic Winch. Load it up with the full off-road kit, Then someone that enjoys using their SUV for what it was intended for can pick it up when the lease expires. Victor | ||||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 177 Registered: 05-2003 |
Vic, So, how IS the H2 off-road? Not fire roads, but steep, rocky, off-camber stuff. Or are their tires so huge, that it's hard to tell. | ||||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Senior Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 321 Registered: 10-2003 |
victor....whats your point? He was asking about an H2....those i.f.s. P.O..S chebbys. if ya gotta get a hummer (cuz of penis size or your mother didn't hug you enough, or whatever), get a HUMMV. Any other hummer is a poser, no matter how many dirt roads you 'wheel' down. | ||||
| luis cardon (Luisc8) New Member Username: Luisc8 Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2003 |
I concur with lewis about the H2 being a poser... actually the h2 is tahoe with a different body and the big gm engine. I will be impressed when they buy the hummve. made by the military to go anywhere, but I think my D1 can compete | ||||
| Victor Biro (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2003 |
Eric, With a couple of exceptions all the Hummer owners were out for the first time, so I am reluctant to offer my observations of that day as gospel. You can see some pictures at: http://www.landroveradventure.com/mod.php?mod=gallery&op=gallery&gallery_id=14&a lbum_id=39 However Norm the Ontario HOG president ('97 H1) was very sceptical when he first encountered the H2. He took one out on a H2-specific course set-up at the Hummer Home Coming, and said that it wasn't as bad as he thought it could have been. Overall not disappointing, but not a H1. In fact, it was kept on the separate course from the H1. Completely different class of vehicle. One thing that was obvious: the width was an advantage in that it gave it a centre of gravity that was better than its height would normally have. However, on narrow trails it was a major handicap. Then again when crossing large gaps it was very impressive. Balancing on two wheels always looks cool. The approach and departure angles were virtually unbeatable, enhanced by very large tires and electronic traction enhancements, allowed it to tackle some pretty tough stuff. Was it worth the cost when compared to the D90, 110 and 130 that were with us: No. But it depends on what you value. The Hummer was much more comfortable than any Defender I have been in. Then again so is a Range Rover, and about the same price. One of the comments of all the owners was that what started as a reasonable MSLP grew very rapidly, and the dealer network was even worse than what Land Rover offers. As an aside, one of the H2s had a supercharger. Besides sounding increadable, it would do 0-60 in about 6 seconds with a top-end of about 180km/hr. (~130Mph). Victor | ||||
| Victor Biro (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lewis, Don't pretend that there aren't a few Land Rover poseurs around. They are the reason I can afford a Discovery in the first place, and the reason Land Rover is even still in business. On my street alone, with about 200 homes, there are three Discoveries, and one of my neighbours just sold her Yellow D90. None of them, with the exception of mine, has even been off road. In fact the suggestion is repugnant to them. They look at me like I have a screw loose (I do, but that's another issue). As long as they are subsidising the mighty fine Land Rover company, Land Rover will keep building the cars that we all love (or love to hate) I don't care about the poseurs. Victor | ||||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Senior Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 253 Registered: 10-2002 |
And when leases on H2's begin to run out, you'll see a lot more of them out on the trails too, and about time. | ||||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 80 Registered: 10-2003 |
Vic is right on the money--we love for people to pose! Seriously, what if the only people who bought Rovers, Cruisers, H2's, etc., were those who planned on wheeling them. Obviously there would be about 50 D2s sold a year, not near enough to sustain costs for more than a day or so. So, the more poseurs like posing, the more tough trucks will come out of manufacturers parts pins. One thing--the H2 is really tough. I currently own a Silverado Z71 with the 5.3 and have put 33k on it since I bought it new. My father and I use it to tow a 6800 lb trailer with. Anyhow, those things are pretty damn stout. The H2 has the 3/4 ton chassis, 6.0, 4L65E (beefier trans). I guess my point is....don't diss the truck based on the driver. | ||||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 849 Registered: 08-2002 |
For less than the price of a new H2 there are used, diesel H1s out there. Personally I would have no interest whatsoever in an H2. Of course I would never buy a new Disco either. | ||||
| Christian Frezza (Christian) New Member Username: Christian Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2002 |
Thanks for the great responses. I really wasn't comparing a DII to a HUMMER2 just the ability of some to think that the H2 is the ultimate vehicle and these are the folks who rarely if at all attempt to take it off road. I was curious as to you opinions. One fellow employee said to me..."Guess your Land Rover won't be the neat vehicle to have anymore huh? To which I said, its not the vehicle its the vehicle and its driver. We'll see how much he takes it out and "plays" with it. Thanks all... | ||||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Senior Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 325 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hey Victor, I agree there are MANY LR posers, but my point is that ALL h2's are posers. A day on a dirt road don't make 'em trail rigs... and a supercharger? yea, thats a great trail upgrade for the money... | ||||
| Randy Maynard (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 711 Registered: 08-2002 |
This is a dumb discussion. Tell the guy to buy whatever the hell he wants and live with it. If you advise him on what to buy and he does, then every problem he has with it will be your fault. If a person is going to off-road then they are going to off-road, if they are going to poese then they are going to poese and ultimatly it doesn't really matter to us does it? WTF? | ||||
| Mitch Williams (Mitch20) New Member Username: Mitch20 Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yeah, this happened to me a few weeks ago. A friend of mine (who does not keep up with cars) was interested in the Hummer H2. I basically told him it’s not for me, and compared the strengths and weaknesses of each vehicle. Basically, H2 can go up more extreme grades but Disco can do more extreme side slopes, Disco is more “purpose built” than H2 – you can’t see over the hood of H2 where in Disco you have a commanding view, Disco has less power but a stronger chassis so it can tow more, 7,700 lbs compared to H2’s 6,800 lbs. H2 has a wide stance which is a plus I guess in the desert but is a negative in and around forest/mountain trails. Then take into account that there really is only one Hummer and that’s the H1. H2 really has not moved 4wd technology forward, its just kind of the same old thing that Land Rover was doing over 30 years ago with RR. Then I explained that Hummer is not really a real corporation, the H1 is a product of am general and the H2 is a product of GM. GM bought the Hummer brand not the company which means they could slap the badge on a Chevy pickup if they wanted. Also Disco feels more solid, the 2003 H2 I sat in felt really cheap and the interior is typical GM. So as you see, each has its tradeoffs. I told him he might want to wait 6 months and see what the 05 Disco will offer. (I have another friend in the auto industry and have heard awesome things about the 05 Disco) As far as looks and perception go Disco has just as much street creed as H2. But Hummer H2 seems to get oohs and ahhs from the Corvette/Mustang Cobra crowd but not from the Euro enthusiast crowd so take that for what you will. It all comes down to what vehicle will give you the most pleasure. | ||||
| Victor Biro (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 70 Registered: 10-2003 |
Christian, I think I understand what you are getting at. Ultimately the ability of their vehicle to go off road is actually only important to those of us that go off-roading. Some times I have to remind myself that almost no one outside my circle of friends in our LR club care what the approach angle of a Nissan Morano vs. a Disco vs. Lexus LX470 is. What most 4x4 drivers care about is that they are driving a vehicle that reflects how they perceive themselves, and how they want to be perceived. Just like we all do to one extent or another. The Hummer certainly makes a statement about it's owner, and whether that Hummer H1 or H2 makes a difference only to those who care about such things. Most H2 owners don't seem to care about the subtle differences between the H1 and H2, but those of us that do are not the people they are trying to impress. I think Randy made a point I have regreted forgetting. Some people are suited to a certain vehicle and will project any failing they perceive - real or imagined - on the vehicle you recommended. The purchase of sports cars and real 4x4s are a purely emotional decission. And to deminish someone's choice of vehicle seems to be perceived as an attack on their character. Victor | ||||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Senior Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2002 |
I can't help remembering how much more the H2 costs than the Discovery. If both vehicles were the same price, then aesthetic, emotional, and technical arguments could be made in favor of either truck. But the H2 costs many thousands more. I don't think the H2 offers $10k or $20k more value than a Land Rover (or Jeep, for that matter.) | ||||
| Victor Biro (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 71 Registered: 10-2003 |
Christopher, You raise a good point. Here in Canada a fully loaded Discovery has MSLP of C$57k, a mosdestly equiped H2 is more than C$100k and a new Range Rover is less than C$100k. If Christian's friend wants to buy what has been called "The Best Luxury SUV in the World", and one that combines an image of refinement second to none with off-road capability, then a Range Rover makes a lot more sense. Heck, the BMW engine in the RR alone would be enough for me. Victor | ||||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 499 Registered: 02-2003 |
there is an H2 at a local Volvo dealers second hand lot...been there since May.....these things may well become a millstone around the second hand market with prices crumbling....it they might make decent second hand buys....then again its rusting aleady... | ||||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Senior Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 328 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote ' Most H2 owners don't seem to care about the subtle differences between the H1 and H2,' they're big-ass differences! | ||||
| Brian O'Connor (Hooky) Member Username: Hooky Post Number: 48 Registered: 09-2003 |
All things aside the H2 is simply the ugliest car on the road. There are a few running around here in my little town, unless it's raining out - LOL. They make the old Yugo look like high style. I don't care if they peal potatoes, balanced my check book, or massaged back while I drove – just too ….. ugly for me. | ||||
| Ted Moyer (Tedmoyer) New Member Username: Tedmoyer Post Number: 24 Registered: 07-2003 |
I agree with Randy. The great think about America, (and for purpose of discussion I mean North America) is you can do want you want with your money. If he wants a tricked out suburban, so be it. BTW add all the aftermarket 22" wheel bling bling crap to go with it... it's his rig. Just don't take that POS off road! | ||||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 503 Registered: 11-2002 |
man you guys really need to go bug the H2 board...you guys really have some pent up anger for these Hummer people | ||||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 976 Registered: 09-2002 |
Hehe...nothing like spreading a little Christmas cheer... | ||||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Senior Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 351 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yes Thom... Yes we do | ||||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 249 Registered: 06-2003 |
"But Hummer H2 seems to get oohs and ahhs from the Corvette/Mustang Cobra crowd" I have a vette and I think the H2 is the biggest POS waste of money currently on the road. I want to puke every time I see one. For some tech specs, a slightly modified D1 or D2 with oversize tires will have better ground clearance, breakover angle, approach and, departure angle and Mileage then any H2. | ||||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 82 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ok, rather than argue with each other over this topic, lets go beat up some H2 drivers and scuff their gucci shoes, and steal their "ice." | ||||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 178 Registered: 05-2003 |
The question becomes: Upon which vehicle will you first see those chrome, counter-roatating wheels? 1) H2 2) Disco Case closed. | ||||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1663 Registered: 04-2002 |
lol... Eric, maybe you should send the request to HotWheels. They already have the Escalade... http://www.hotwheels.com/us/search_brand.asp?brandSkin=common&brand_id=8307 | ||||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Senior Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 362 Registered: 10-2003 |
LOL!!! And they're called 'Blings' !! HAHAHAHA!!!!  | ||||
| JD Cheney II (Bdls72) New Member Username: Bdls72 Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2003 |
As odd as this may seem, I live about 2 miles from where the H1 and H2 are made. My father in law was the production manager for H1's with AM General when Arnold and his entourage made them "High Style" for the A list crowd. The majority of people here know the real reason that the H2 was built was to satisfy the A list, NBA and NFL "bling blingers". And why not, if the market is there, why not take advantage of it. That being said, I would definatley take my '02 Disco over an H2 ANYDAY! I can take it off road at anytime, not worry about scratching it up, get decent gas mileage and not have to worry about doling out 75-90 bucks to fill it up on a weekly basis. Take it from my father in law, who drove an H1 before it was cool, if you can't afford an H1, then settle for LR, you will never be disappointed. Happy New Year! | ||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 97 Registered: 08-2003 |
JMHO - but if your going to drop the cake on an H1 or H2 - Buy a Unimog. These things will get out of places that the H1/H2 can't even get into. Or make us all drool and buy a D110 - spend the rest of the cake on bits Or give me the money instead | ||||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 804 Registered: 02-2002 |
http://www.discoweb.org/truckhavenh2/index.htm | ||||
| JD Cheney II (Bdls72) New Member Username: Bdls72 Post Number: 3 Registered: 09-2003 |
Great Pics Craig... | ||||
| Shawn McKenzie (Shawn) Member Username: Shawn Post Number: 168 Registered: 10-2002 |
My neighbour just sold his Jaguar XJR and bought a silver H2. He's as happy as can be with it and wouldn't DREAM of taking it off road. (He thinks I'm insane of course) He told me teenaged girls in mall parking lots stop him and ask to sit in it. Never happened with the Jag. This is the right vehicle for him. | ||||
| Jack Leitch (Liveattheedge) New Member Username: Liveattheedge Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2003 |
H2 doesn't get the same attention on the road as a nicely modified disco. You can't beat that. | ||||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 516 Registered: 02-2003 |
There is still an H2 sitting on a local volvo dealers lot....been there since May....seems to me that the second hand market may be non existent in the Boston Area....so depreciation is even worse on H2s than D2s...tempted to offer them $20k.... | ||||
| Luis Constantin (Luisc) Member Username: Luisc Post Number: 173 Registered: 02-2003 |
Teenage girls at the mall ask him if they can sit in it? Damn, if I could just knock 20 years off my age at the snap of a finger, I would get an H2 and try that. | ||||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 863 Registered: 08-2002 |
Don't kid yourself Jack an H2 gets much more attention on the road than ANY D2. | ||||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 119 Registered: 10-2003 |
Christian, If your friend is interested in waiting about six months, he might be interested in the new Discovery: "Land Rover has designed new Discovery to be a very competent on-road machine with all the latest traction aids and Dynamic Stability Control but that does not mean that off-road capabilities have been compromised. To the contrary, Disco III will target and excel over VW Touareg and Hummer H2 in almost everyway. We can't give out all the details but imagine over 45 degree side slope and an all-new extreme independent air-suspension system that would put solid axle articulation to shame." From: http://www.thelandroverchronicle.com/new_page_581.htm | ||||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 870 Registered: 08-2002 |
Advert propoganda, don't believe everythin you hear. | ||||
| Joel Echols (Joelechols) New Member Username: Joelechols Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hummer H1's and H2's are good for cruisin down dirt roads, climing steep grades with TONS of tourqe, and stuff like that - due to its amazing engine. But there's no way in hell you can make extreme off-roading machines out of them (like you can Discos). Your off-roading abilities are limited due to the independent suspension on the Hummers. This allows for no articulation which sometimes results in losing your 4WD capabilities. See this link to better understand what I'm saying. http://bigcherokee.com/ifssfa.html So in regards to the origianal question asked, I would say it depends on what they want and how much money they are willing to spend. Personaly, I will allways own an SUV with solid axels (perferably a Disco, depending on how much money I have to spend). Hope this helps! | ||||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Senior Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 280 Registered: 08-2003 |
"Land Rover has designed new Discovery to be a very competent on-road machine with all the latest traction aids and Dynamic Stability Control but that does not mean that off-road capabilities have been compromised. To the contrary, Disco III will target and excel over VW Touareg and Hummer H2 in almost everyway. We can't give out all the details but imagine over 45 degree side slope and an all-new extreme independent air-suspension system that would put solid axle articulation to shame." Exhuast routed under the axle? Yah, that will be great offroad.
First thing that comes to mind when I see one of these up in the hills...
...lost soccer mom. Matt | ||||
| Paul Kennington (P_kennington) Member Username: P_kennington Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2002 |
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this discussion is an collision/impact comparison. Look at pics of D1 and D2 front impacts. Then look at the same for an H2. Frightening... Cheers, Paul. | ||||
| Jack Leitch (Liveattheedge) New Member Username: Liveattheedge Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2003 |
D1 XD gets more att. the only attention a H2 gets on the road here is, "o lets get a glimps of the bimbo driving it." And in the south, (georga/atlanta) They're absolutly loathed, but then again so are rovers. I like the H1 and have a lot of respect for them, their only drawback is their size. H2's just look a little... hollywood. Jack | ||||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 878 Registered: 08-2002 |
Sorry, I disagree Jack. H2 is an attention getter, especially with the younger crowd. They don't even look at rovers, they are not catchy enough. Go ask an arbitrary person that does not have 4x4 technical knowledge about which they like better. Most people have never even seen an XD. Joel, you can make many arguments about they the H2 might be superior to the D1 or D2 and I might agree with you on the IFS. Fact is unless you are doing an 7-8 of 10 rated trails the H2 will do just fine. In fact if you don't have an locker in the rear of your Disco the H2 might do better. Then there is the driver issue. If the driver of the H2 is a better driver than you kiss it all goodbye, the H2 might appear to be a better vehicle. Each has weak links Both are good vehicles that should perform quite nicely on most adventures. Both need modification to do anything really serious. | ||||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 825 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jack, it's funny you should call the H2 "hollywood." H2s are dime-a-dozen here in SoCal, so they don't garner much attention. Certainly not the head turners they are elsewhere. | ||||
| Brendan Kearns (Howboucha) Member Username: Howboucha Post Number: 173 Registered: 01-2003 |
I went wheeling with some d-webbers (CALM, Discochef) and the host-Roberto was driving an H2. I was very impressed with it, and received many rubs when I stuck my XD and had to have Roberto pull me out. Chris (CALM) almost had an opportunity to pull the H2 out of a situation in deep sand on a descent but they dug it out. H2's are everywhere in South-Western Indiana. I have one of 2 XD's that I have heard about in the entire state. The XD gets an enormous amout of head-turning and even my boring but fully kitted LE gets head turns. It's just because it is different, and cool too. I don't personally care what is better. If they can afford it, buy it. If they can't afford it and buy it anyway, then their banker gets to drive it for awhile. A few photos of the H2 and Discos playing at the Badlands last Saturday can be found at www.stromtrooper.com/brendankearns.htm |
