| Author | Message | ||
     Josh (Badassm0f0) New Member Username: Badassm0f0 Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2003 |
did you know that in the armys most elite infantry unit 1/75th ranger regiment, land rovers not hummers are the prefered method of transport.... food for thought. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/action2/d_sft04.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/action2/ranger2.jpg http://www.ausa.org/www/armymag.nsf/(soldier)/20017?OpenDocument | ||
| Grant Lawson (Grant) Member Username: Grant Post Number: 86 Registered: 01-2003 |
the US army and Marines also use the G-wagen. the humvee doesn't fit in a Chinook helo.... land rover and g wagen was a good "off the shelf" fix for units requiring air mobility for insertion. Canada is recieving a huge delivery of g wagen to replace the crapped out iltis. i have seen both variants and when my unit takes delivery i will post some pics...very sweet. armoured sides and glass, wpns platform, goodyear MTR's, roof racks and small solar panels,removable winch,etc....., procured by some guy at HQ who like his toys but didn't look at our requirements....but that is another rant...... happy holidays Celer et Audax | ||
| Stacey R Abend (Srafj40) Member Username: Srafj40 Post Number: 149 Registered: 03-2003 |
Josh: All BN's (1st-2nd-3rd) use them. I was a RSOV qualified driver early 90's. The BN's took the rigs, choped them up, slowly learning what worked and what did not for mods to accomodate weapons and gear. Stacey | ||
| Josh (Badassm0f0) New Member Username: Badassm0f0 Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2003 |
i put 1/75 instead of just 75th... sorry bout the typo. | ||
| Matt (Doc175) Member Username: Doc175 Post Number: 207 Registered: 11-2002 |
Who in the US Army or Marines uses G-wagons? | ||
| Grant Lawson (Grant) Member Username: Grant Post Number: 87 Registered: 01-2003 |
the Marines are using G-wagens for sure, the new Security Regiment or something, there was an article in pop mechanics last year. army wise, nothing i can back up... maybe 101 air assault? like I mentioned any unit that is still using the Chinook is probably using Land Rovers, or G-Wagen. | ||
| Dan Ratcliffe (Dan_ratcliffe) Member Username: Dan_ratcliffe Post Number: 47 Registered: 07-2003 |
A very good friend of mine in the Marines is the one who had to make the G-wagon recommendation as the Interim Fast Attack Vehicle (I-FAV) to replace the aging and modified M151's instead of the 110. He is a Land Rover maniac and Land Rover presented a nice 110, it came down promarily to spare parts availability. There is a better likely hood that a MEU off the coast of western Africa could more easily find Mercedes spares than Land Rover. As the the requirement was for an interim replacement, the Marines would not take on the spares requirements normally assumed when taking on a vehicle type. | ||
| Stacey R Abend (Srafj40) Member Username: Srafj40 Post Number: 150 Registered: 03-2003 |
Ray Gerber could have some info on the Marine situation. One of the lessons of Somalia (streets in the third world are to narrow), is allowing units to have more flexability with vehicle types . Word is that in Afganistan that the SF units aquired 4 door Toyota Tacomas that had some interesting mods. Stacey | ||
| Grant Lawson (Grant) Member Username: Grant Post Number: 90 Registered: 01-2003 |
www.advancedvehiclesystems.com special units need to drive their vehcles off of helicopters, not sling them/land vehicle/land chopper/deplane/desling mount up /disappear... as the humvee is too big to put on board smaller vehicles were required... | ||
| Matt (Doc175) Member Username: Doc175 Post Number: 211 Registered: 11-2002 |
I am willing to bet no one in the Army uses G-Wagons. Yes on the Toyotas. Sure a hell no one in the 101. I know it is the nature of the military and specialty units that not every one get the same money. I could only imagine how much the Marines spent on the G's because I know about how much the Rovers the Rangers use cost. There are a shit ton of good Marines that are still using hand-me-downs from the Army and Navy from th 1980's. How can the Marines spend those dollars when Joe still has a M-16 from 'Nam, no night vision and not enough water to drink? | ||
| BW (Bwallace35) Member Username: Bwallace35 Post Number: 85 Registered: 07-2002 |
I'd like to point out that many units, not just special ops, use vehicles around the world that are not "issued" to them. In fact, nearly every over-seas camp, post or airfield has a motorpool full of "locally purchased" vehicles. So, just because one might see a "division" patch driving a G-Wagon or anything other than a Humvee doesn't mean that vehicle is the "issued" vehicle. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2321 Registered: 02-2002 |
BW is soooo correct. During Desert Storm I had to fly into Dahran, Saudia Arabia on a MARLOG. Anyway, upon landing I was handed the keys to a new Toyata Landcruiser. I asked WTF and was told this is Japan's contribution to the war effort. Man that thing was fun.  | ||
| Josh (Badassm0f0) New Member Username: Badassm0f0 Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2003 |
stacey what unit where you in when you became RSOV qualified, and what was your MOS? when i was over in germany most of the MP's drove locally purchased VW vans from the mid 80's hehe poor bastards. | ||
| Matt (Doc175) Member Username: Doc175 Post Number: 213 Registered: 11-2002 |
I understand all of that. Almost all of this discussion thus far had been about some very special units. "most elite infantry unit"-Josh "RSOV"-Stacey "Somolia"-(Rangers and other special guys)-Stacey "Afghanistan...SF units"-Stacey "special units"-Grant Not to be an idiot on all the quotes but my point was this....The way I interpreted the conversation was that either the MEU and/ or the Security Regm't was buying G-wagons. I'm willing to bet they did not just buy a handful as local purchase for limited oversea useage or that Germany "donated" them to the war effort. What I got was that the Marines were using the G's like the Rangers use the ROSV's and the RSOVs are really expensive. That being said, I have spent the better part of the last two years deployed to either Afghanistan or Iraq. In each case I saw that the basic Marines ALWAYS had the worst eqiptment. In fact, in Iraq a couple of my friends and I would take food and water to the Marines because they did not have enough. If the Marines just bought a couple G's to test OK, but IMHO they should take care of their troops before spending a ton of money any vehicle (let along a German one) before feeding their men. | ||
| Josh (Badassm0f0) New Member Username: Badassm0f0 Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2003 |
matt what unit were you in while in theater in iraq and afgan, and what was your MOS? | ||
| Matt (Doc175) Member Username: Doc175 Post Number: 215 Registered: 11-2002 |
I'm a medic -91W I spent the last 3 yrs in 1/75 and now am at the Special Operations Command | ||
| Stacey R Abend (Srafj40) Member Username: Srafj40 Post Number: 151 Registered: 03-2003 |
Josh: 11b, 3/75 A Co. & HHC Co. Matt: I agree that the Marines are low on the priority for spending. It is incredible the disparagement in funding and it only gets worse with the type of unit. I do not know the Marine Structure so please correct me if I am wrong. The Marine Expedition Units (Elite Marine Infantry) it would seem would get more funding and the possibility to aquire the G-wagon. From; http://advancedvehiclesystems.com/military.htm Advanced Vehicle Systems has provided 62 Interim Fast Attack Vehicles (IFAV). The contract, awarded 14 July 1999, required the expedited delivery of these urgently-needed vehicles. With its team partner, DaimlerChrysler, AVS completed delivery of these units to I MEF, II MEF, and III MEF by December 8,1999. AVS also has provided operator and maintenance training to each of the Marine Expeditionary Forces (MEF). The Contractor Logistics Support (CLS) segment of this contract provides worldwide response to the Corps within 48 hours of notification. To address this issue, AVS has established a Central Parts Center in Jacksonville, N.C.and a R&D and engineering facility in Millersville, MD. AVS resolved several potential problems relating to the weapons mounting system by designing a new lightweight pedestal with an offset mount to accommodate .50cal and MK19. Further, AVS has added the capability for TOW configurations as well. Due to the success of the G-wagon meeting USMC mission requirements, the Marine Corps added an additional 30 vehicles to its fleet in 2000. Stacey | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 204 Registered: 09-2002 |
Getting into this late just to add some further USMC perspective-its been pretty well covered already, but we use the G-wagon as the Interim Fast Attack Vehicle that replaced the M151 jeep a few years back. Each Battalion preparing for deployment with a MEU(SOC) gets an allotment of them, and they are normally then given to Weapons company and further pushed to the Javelins (replacement for the POS Dragon and one kick ass, but heavy weapon) To my knowledge noone else gets them in the Marine Corps and they are part of the turnover from BLT (Battalion Landing Team) to BLT. Combat service from them, from the 15th MEU (attached to the Brits during OIF) was positive-and this is in comparison to the Defenders that were with the MEU that got stuck a lot going through the berms and such (I blame it on driver error!) With regard to Matt's specific comments regarding Marines and what we spend our money on-its a well known fact that the Marine corps will squeeze a nickel out of a rock if they can, and are not prone to spend a lot of money in most situations. To keep it germane to the discussion I will reflect on the gwagon when it hit the streets-it sucked, we all hated it-teething problems and logistics were a pain and it wasn't as user friendly, at the time, as what it replaced. When I was on float my roomate, the Wpns Co XO, said it best-the Marine Corps choose the IFAV as a replacement for the cheaper, easier to fix jeep. With regard to individual equip and the like, I can also testify that my time at a battalion was feast or famine-when I was with a MEU I had several million dollars worth of dedicated comms gear for my sniper platoon alone, bumped up NVDs, laser rangefinder/bino combos, etc. When we weren't locked on it wasn't nearly as great-many of the units deploying to OIF and OEF were non-MEU programs, many reservists, who did what they could with what they had. Its important to note, all that being said, that the USMC has a history of performance that-at the risk of offending my Army breatheren-speaks more about how they train than what they are wearing and whether or not its "high speed". Otherwise, why would we have been the force of choice to go through the breach in Desert Storm, the entry force (that kept things stable until turnover to the UN, and returned to cover the withdrawal) for Somalia, the force that got way, way inland during OEF, and the force that took the Eastern side of the OIF attack? I guess we just don't get wrapped around the axle about $$$, which is why we still have CH-46's that were made 10 years before I was born... Sadly its also why I couldn't get M4's or flattop M16s even to mount ACOGs on b/c the several hundred dollars and a convoluted logistics system were too much to work through. I guess for us its about training and mentality We can go round and round on that, and I doubt that was the intention of the commentary, but I felt like I should throw that disclaimer out after I bashed my service's fiscal policies. | ||
| Stacey R Abend (Srafj40) Member Username: Srafj40 Post Number: 152 Registered: 03-2003 |
Thanks Ray. Hope all is well. Stacey | ||
| Matt (Doc175) Member Username: Doc175 Post Number: 218 Registered: 11-2002 |
All well stated. I know that the Marines pride themselves on doing more with less. It is most definately a result of training and attitude. I can not and will not attempt to rationalize the fiscal policies of any branch of the military. The people who make those policies probably could not explain them. I am making an observation as a fellow soldier and one that has been throught the trials and hardships of war. Why are the Marines (or any branch of service) spending money G-wagons or any other esoteric, expensive equiptment when the infantry-man has no water or too little food. I will admit that there are units in the Army that have an extaordinary amount of money. However, in all my time overseas I have never had to give water to food to a guy in the Army or Air Force | ||
| Dan Ratcliffe (Dan_ratcliffe) Member Username: Dan_ratcliffe Post Number: 48 Registered: 07-2003 |
I did want to add something to the conversation if it is okay. The MEU's are not "elite" Marine infantry. A MEU is the smallest of the Marine Air Ground Task Forces(MAGTF). The MEU is made up of an air combat element, ground combat element, combat service support element and command element. Often these organizations are highly tasked organized. The 4th MEB (Marine Expeditionary Brgade) in Shield/Storm was actually two MEB's the 4th and 5th combined into a single organization resulting in two full regiments, each containing a MEU(SOC), two full squadrons etc. spread across 34 ships! The entire organization earns the "Special Operations Capable" designation. We as a group don't care much for the "special" names that detract in any way from the idea that we are all part of a singularly elite organization. That is why there are so many examples of service support folks taking the fight to the enemy. It was not uncommon for lads in the supply columns to un-ass their vehicles and teach some one that shooting at convoys is a bad idea. The MEU's are special operations capable, with 26 special missions they are trained to perform. I do have to be clear on a point, the infantry battalion/ artillery battery/ tank platoon/ amtrac platoon/ combat service support detachment/ and airunits that gets assigned are those that are next in the rotation, not elite versions of the everyday Marine units. No, what is amazing is that they are simply everday Marine units whose turn it is to climb on the wall. It is really important to know that all of the elements I listed above (not a conclusive list) are tested for each of their parts in each of the 26 missions and failures of any part, fail the entire organization. I was explaining to someone a few weeks ago what I did as a Marine. I was a jumpmaster and mountain leader, and spent a lot of my time assigned to army or foriegn military units. He said "Oh, you were in a special unit." We didn't call it special in those days, we just called it falling in to formation and going to work. I can also so say that while it could get damned frustrating working with gear that was hand me down, and being pushed to save every dime we could, we took a hell of a lot of pride in in making what we had work so well. I thought that it was amazing when I looked at many of the pictures of the Marine units taken from this last dust up. About 1 in 4 had the night vision goggle strap on his helmet. Made me wonder who did the platton sergeant decide got one, fire team leader, AR man??? Thanks for letting an old fart go on. | ||
| Dan Ratcliffe (Dan_ratcliffe) Member Username: Dan_ratcliffe Post Number: 49 Registered: 07-2003 |
Matt Just read your last post. I wish I could explain it in a way that made sense. Running short of food and water is just the way it goes. We used to wait months for headlight bulbs for our 151's, but we could drive/tow our vehicles up to Bragg to participate in an ARTEP, and get them fixed right a way for free. I had Marines that had to fill out a missing gear statement and pay for canteens/flashlights, etc. lost in Grenada. One team was going to have to pay for their body armor (82d was having alot of problems with heat exhaustion and they were ordered to remove them.) But being quick thinking, he got the Army Company Commander to sign a note stating he ordered them to leave at the side of the road. I wish I could explain it, dammed if I not proud of it some how!! | ||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 706 Registered: 07-2002 |
Check it out at the bottom of the page - Personal pics - http://landrover.mrbaileyshistory.net/roverfamily.html By the way Stacey, you may know this from your Toyota chat rooms, but my brother is on his way to Iraq. His platoon was selected to become the first regular army/national guard unit to be trained in special forces mission types to be the quick reaction force for the suni-triangle - due, in no small part, to his Ranger qualifications and bat. experience, along with his PL being Ranger qualified and a few others with extra experience. They will have a mission to secure and offensively react every time a bomb goes off, or an ambush is attempted on any coallition force in the suni-triangle. They will have some "special" infil/exfil techniques. He is excited, to say the least. After 6 years trianing and time spent with the Rangers, Special Forces, and N.G., he is finally going. | ||
| Stacey R Abend (Srafj40) Member Username: Srafj40 Post Number: 153 Registered: 03-2003 |
R.B. Yes, and God-speed too Toph and his wife her at home. Stacey | ||
| Matt (Doc175) Member Username: Doc175 Post Number: 224 Registered: 11-2002 |
R.B. I am guessing that that website is yours or someone you know by the looks of the address. Cool website. In actuallity the RSOVs use a 200Tdi and a 5 speed manual transmission. That is no secret. If you are really interested look back to "Popular Mechanics" mag about 2.5-3 years ago. They did a whole spread on the Rangers and the RSOVS. In addition, one of the British Rover mags (I think it was LROI) did a couple articles on the RSOVs about a 1.5 years ago. It gave a lot of good info on the Rovers...more than I thought should be out there. | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 205 Registered: 09-2002 |
Stacey- All is as well as can be expected while serving time in purgatory with our Navy breatheren-but I'm less than a year for getting back to the fleet, so the light at the end of the tunnel is visible now. It goes without saying the green machine will still probably be gainfully employed by the time I get back, and for some time in the future. I should echo Dan's comments about even the MEU (SOC) program being something that isn't all the "special" in the spec ops sense, even my role with the Maritime Special Purpose Force was merely a lot of training given to a regualar old Battalion Scout Sniper platoon. What it did teach me, however, is all the time spent without money and the like that forced us to work on the basics of stalking, patrolling, comms, fire support payed big dividends when the time came to do the 'high speed' stuff that came with the rigors of the MEU workup. As a side note, even in my time in the fleet, pre-9/11, we were really getting a lot of good NVGs pushed down to the bn level. By the time I left most fireteams had at least two sets, usually at least one PVS-14 and at worse a PVS-7B, but most of these were relegated to drivers where the it seemed to work better than the monocular effect. It seems that since then the Marine Corps has gotten around to getting a lot of these mounted on weapons or helmets, and in conjunction with weapons mounted lasers is doing a lot to win the nights. All of which is old hat to the Rangers on the board, but for us it was down right revolutionary. I'll be very interested to see what new stuff has made its way down to the grunts when I get back. r- Ray |
