| Author | Message | ||
     peter nova (Peter) Member Username: Peter Post Number: 49 Registered: 07-2003 |
Has anyone upgraded from the 4.0 to the 2.8L in the US. Is it easy to convert with an auto gearbox. Seems like this could be a good investment. Always wanted a diesel because of the gas milage you can get. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1347 Registered: 02-2002 |
One guy on here put the 2.8 powerstroke in already. SEarch and you should find it - he also posted it on POR. It would be cool to do, but I don't think spending $10-13K for a motor does much for long term cost! (you can buy a hell of alot of premium for that)  Bill | ||
| EricV (Bender2033) Senior Member Username: Bender2033 Post Number: 283 Registered: 08-2002 |
There is a company that will soon offer the 2.8 kit for $7500 http://www.disco-tech.ca/engines/ Let's hope this becomes a reality. | ||
| John Cinquegrana (Johnc) Senior Member Username: Johnc Post Number: 557 Registered: 07-2002 |
I thought the engine wasn't EPA approved?? Can't you get the engine from Brasil for under $3k? | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 209 Registered: 09-2002 |
Brittanica Restorations (http://www.britrest.com/en.html) for some good info on it as well, while they're coming out of Canada they do seem to be very professional and responsive even to the casual inquiry I sent them awhile back. Email for an updated price but it will probably run 8-10k for the kit, the key here being they include a lot of the ancillaries, hoses, etc that are needed to make it work. The guy's name who did it was Richard Dekkard, I think, and theres a fair amount of writing on it on the POR board. He had a web site for awhile, but it looks like that project died on the vine. Its a compelling, if expensive, idea-and one that is discussed every so often here, which will be evident with a search for "diesel" or something of the like. Bills comment about the cost is issue #1 most of the time. Eric's company would be a competitive alternative to the RPI 4.6l drop-in, but I haven't seen their website work in awhile (that could be my computer though) and John's comment is worth looking at if you're in a state with emissions testing or the like. I think that is a major hang-up for the much maligned Crosslander with the diesel, so it could be an issue as well. Not sure about direct order from Brasil, that's another interesting tangent that if I were going to drop the cash in the near term, I could certainly be looking into. r- Ray | ||
| John Cinquegrana (Johnc) Senior Member Username: Johnc Post Number: 558 Registered: 07-2002 |
Ray, what would happen if I were to take a trip thru Brasil and my 3.5 gas engine dies. I pull into a LR dealer and purchase a new diesel engine, would I have problems bringing the Rover back into the States? Just curious. Thanks for your input and information, John | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 211 Registered: 09-2002 |
John- I don't think much of anything. My hope is to get assigned in England in a few years and have my 3.9l engine die and just happen to get replaced by a TDI or 2.8L, in a country that has a wide proliferation of LR specific diesel parts at a more reasonable price. (and mechanics). I was pretty sure the EPA is out of the equation when you modify your own vehicle-they weigh in when you bring a new vehicle in though. That deserves to be qualified by saying I also think State govt's weigh in with EPA certifications (or steeper, aka California emissions) and some of them smog check vehicles. Luckily, so far, the Commonwealth of Va only seems in interested in whether or not my truck has its rear sway bar-and that's only when I made the mistake of having the LR dealership inspect it. I've also heard there is a cat you can fit to the exhaust of this family of diesels to make it compliant but now I'm really speculating and way out of my box. | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 2398 Registered: 10-2001 |
john. i am not sure how emissions are set up in your county, but eventually most states (many years from now) will be set up on a very similar system. for now the more urban areas have a fairly elaborate testing system where the more rural areas have emissions that are visual only. this means that the inspection mechanic has to make sure that what came with the car/truck from the factory is still in place. i.e. pcv, cats, engine, egr, etc. if not it has to be put back to its original specs. the only other test is a gas cap test. this applies to all vehicles made after 1975 only. | ||
| Joe Still (Joedisco) Member Username: Joedisco Post Number: 111 Registered: 09-2002 |
I'm intrigued by the diesel efficencey and durability but..... I heard you'd be better off starting with a diesel TDi to have the correct parts. Also don't you have to change the gearing to deal with the inevitably lower rpm range of a diesel? | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 213 Registered: 09-2002 |
Joe- finding a donor vehicle is a good way to do it, that way you can scavenge from there if need be. That's what attracted my interest to the Britrest 'kit' as, when you look at all that comes with it, it certainly seems like they give you everything you need to fit a diesel engine onto a gasoline truck. One important consideration, and one of my beacons of light with regard to my specific truck, is the engine is better off when mated to the 5-speed transmission vice autobox (its also a little cheaper b/c of the lack of adapter plate). I don't think changing the gearing is necessary, but I could be wrong on that front. I've been daydreaming/considering doing it for awhile now, it really comes down to decision time sometime in the indeterminate future as to whether I want to refurbish my DI (1994, w/144k on the clock) into a 'new' truck or move on to a new project. The jury is still out, in the next year or so when enough is paid off the get an improved drivetrain (new/rebuilt transmission, transfer case, drive shafts, axles, lockers...) the jury will likely shift way over to refurbish. That just my $.02 and the thought process I use to justify such a massive undertaking. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1358 Registered: 02-2002 |
2.8 powerstroek is very similar to the LR 300TDI - those of us in the US don't have the benfit of strating off with a TDI truck. Vendor selling the powerstroke engines also sell complete install kits with everything need to drop into a Disco 1. As far as gearing goes - no - check out the torque and HP of the 2.8! Also the fact that the power comes in at very low RP's anyway Bill | ||
| Joe Still (Joedisco) Member Username: Joedisco Post Number: 112 Registered: 09-2002 |
Bill, I can't argue as I don't know. Maybe the limit only shows up at top speeds. If the oil burner tops out at 3000 rpm that's still 90 I guess. Ray, I had a 96 Tahoe before my 95 D1 and if my Disco had a 5.7l GM it could get 20 mpg and be superior in HP and torque. But then it'd wouldn't be a LR!!! Might be better though as the single most prominent advantage of the LR 3.9 seems to be longevity. I think it's because it has Cast Iron sleeved cylinders. Happy New Year! | ||
| Frank Dalton (Unscooter) New Member Username: Unscooter Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 |
I registered with the bulletin board just to comment on this thread... I have installed a 2.8L Power Stroke in our '96 NAS D1 and love it ! I looked and looked and looked for a diesel conversion kit, conversing with Britannica Restoration for a long, long time, but was only directed to used motors (they now sell the M&D kit, but at a very noticable mark-up). I sent e-mails to every company I could find in any LR mag I could find. I finally stumbled on Motor and Diesel Engineering in the UK, after spotting one of their ads in a magazine, mentioning the 2.8 TGV (additionally, they were the only ones to respond). Once I understood completely what it was I was ordering (meaning what's in the kit, what do I have to do, etc.), I placed the order and (much) later (due to the FDA holding up the container) I got the kit... It was a huge job, mainly because I had never undertaken such a large task, but I was determined to do it the best I could and I made numerous other upgrades to our Rover. Although it took me a while, everything went very well with the kit. One of the the biggest advantages of the M&D kit is that their adapter mates the engine to the V8 transmission, so no need for the rare and expensive diesel auto box (nor converting to a diesel manual box). Their kit was very complete with all sorts of fittings and all sorts of LR parts, as well as their own 'bespoke' parts, which are required to fit the motor to the car (the motor has significant differences from the 300 Tdi, all of them good). Another nice aspect is that their custom motor mounts bolt to the existing V8 chassis mounts, so no welding required there :-) Additionally, the motor as it comes from International in Brazil, needs to be modified, which is done by M&D, so that it will work in a Rover's engine bay. As for performance, the redline is 3,800 RPM and max torque (277 lb-ft (at only 1,400 RPM) ! try that with your V8 ;-) makes it a quick truck off the line (easily as fast or faster than the V8) and although I am now running 265/70R16 SSRs that are more than 31.5" tall, there's no need to change the final drive gearing. Range has increased dramatically, to say the least, and fuel stops are now no longer a big concern :-) Big job ? Yes. Cost some 'dosh' ? A good chunk, including all of the other things we did, too. Worth it ? One wire to keep the motor running and no computers anywhere in sight... You betcha ! :-) Hope this helps answer Peter's question. I'll try to watch this thread, in case there are some other questions... Since this is my first posting, be gentle ;-) Frank | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 273 Registered: 02-2003 |
it will only hurt a little...the big question is how much? Another Frank | ||
| John Cinquegrana (Johnc) Senior Member Username: Johnc Post Number: 561 Registered: 07-2002 |
Thanks for the infor Frank but in the future please spell Brasil correctly.... hehehe .... just kidding!!! Yes, tell us how much.... maybe we can do a group buy and fill up a container if the price is right. PS: I want two motors. | ||
| Justin Sherfy (Jrsherfy) New Member Username: Jrsherfy Post Number: 32 Registered: 08-2003 |
Frank D, Awesome post! I have an '03 and want to drop the 2.8L in it right now. However, I will probably wait until I get some more wear on my current engine, seeing as I only have about 12,000 miles on it. No welding, that's awesome! I have lot's of questions, but I'll keep it to a minimum. Number one on my list is gas mileage. Can you give us some numbers? How many mpg on average? Also, if it's quicker off the line than your 4.0, then what did you lose? Was it top end acceleration? How is the towing, better or worse? Okay, last one. I swear. What about the noise level? Is it as noisy as a regular diesel, or is very quiet like the ad says? Again, thanks for the very cool post. JRS | ||
| Frank Dalton (Unscooter) New Member Username: Unscooter Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 |
Okay, okay, sheesh ! B-r-a-s-i-l ;-) The basic kit was about GBP5,000, but I was one of the first to get one and I think that they may have gone up a bit, now that the motor is becoming so popular... A friend contacted them recently about a kit for his D90 and the approximate USD number he told me, based on what he was quoted, was about $9K, but bear in mind that the (NAS) D90 requires some additional things for a diesel, such as some inner body panels (ECR has good articles on converting both the D90 and Disco to 300 Tdi - this is excellent information to see if this big job is for you). Additionally, I added and deleted some items from the kit, so my number will be quite different than for just a straight kit. I deleted most of the exhaust system, because I wanted a complete stainless one, so I only kept the downpipe (from which we only used the Marmon flange). Also, we upgraded from the LR intercooler to one from Allisport. To top that off, we added an Ashcroft auto box and transfer box to the mix. That and shipping, duty (and, later, use tax (d*rn*d state of MI ;-[ ) and it adds up, then there were the other things done, (bumpers, suspension, driveshafts, wheels, tires, etc., etc., etc.) but that's another story. I can't speak for David Jackson at M&D, as to a group buy, but anything is possible. I can say that absolutely everything fit and I did not have to take a file to any parts nor curse at them ;-) I took my time and did the best job I could, because this is not about resale value. We love our Rover and Winston is a keeper; there's no intention to sell - ever. That's how I could justify such a large expense. The original V8 drivetrain had some miles and although everything worked fine and had been well taken care of from day one (original owner :-), I knew that it couldn't last forever and rather than wait for a serious failure, I wanted to do the changeover beforehand... Also, I knew that the drastic increase in torque, from the new engine, would accelerate the wear on these 100K+ mile components. So, there you are: the numbers noted by Bill of $10~13K are probably in the ballpark of what you'll spend for the whole installation. I'm sure that it could be done on the cheap for less and that it could be done very well for more. It just depends on how thorough a job of it one wants to do. By the way, I am on the Yahoo Tdi list and several members have tried to contact www.disco-tech.ca, but there has been no response. I don't know what to think about what they have to offer... As for getting a motor for $4K or whatever, out of 'Brasil,' that's one possibility and I can connect you with a guy who can get you one, but then you'll need your own machine shop for the modifications and custom pieces that you'll need to make and then you'll need to figure out all of the Land Rover diesel parts that you'll need and then you'll need to figure out how to make it all work. I decided that it was worth it to spend the money on a well engineered kit that had been proven. It was a huge relief to just reach into that crate full of parts, all in their own labeled packages, refer to the corresponding section in the instructions, then put the part in the truck. If we had to figure it all out from scratch, I'd still be working on it ! If you want a 2.8 kit, then I highly recommend Motor & Diesel Engineering. I was and am very satisfied, not to mention the envy of my local Land Rover club ;-) Frank | ||
| Frank Dalton (Unscooter) New Member Username: Unscooter Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2004 |
Oh, Boy ! What did I start ? ;-) Hi Justin, I cannot say if there is a kit for the D2... You'll have to contact M&D, but as far as I know, there is not a kit for the Series II - sorry :-( As to your other questions, I have not yet figured out the mileage, as we only have just a couple of thousand miles on the engine and for a diesel, that's nowhere near broken in, although International says the motor can be considered broken-in, by 1550 miles... Well, I can't tell you what the gas mileage is, anyway, because we no longer use any ;-), but to give you some recent information, we've been able to go more than 250 miles with the fuel gauge still reading more then half full. I expect that we can probably get more than 450 miles out of a tank, but then our Rover is now up in the air, no front air dam, big and very heavy wheels and tires, so "your mileage may vary" ;-) As for top end speed and such, the truck cruises as easily as before, but with all the suspension "enhancements," we no longer breeze along at the speeds we did. Suffice it to say, that I do not know that we have "lost" anything. We did gain a huge amount of torque and that's why the truck is so quick. With a 3800 RPM redline, top speed should really not be limited, especially since the motor is turning MUCH lower revs on the highway than before. As for towing and noise, I can't say about the former, as we've not yet had the chance, but why would there be a problem ? As for the latter, although we have in effect a straight-through 2.5" exhaust with only no-baffle resonators and no muffler, it sounds every bit like a turbo diesel on the outside and there is not a hint of "noise" on the inside while cruising along. So, yes, it is quiet. Frank | ||
| EricV (Bender2033) Senior Member Username: Bender2033 Post Number: 285 Registered: 08-2002 |
Frank, Thanks for the great posts! Could you **PLEASE** do us all the favor and take a few photos of your new engine bay? *drool* | ||
| Frank Dalton (Unscooter) New Member Username: Unscooter Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hi Eric, It's all ice and snow here, now, so I haven't got any recent photos, but I'll upload some from the installation, if you like... Haven't tried this before, but here goes ! Yuck ! My photos are too large :-( 640x480 ) - all I get is an error message (needs to be max of 320x240) and I can't shrink them to fit in here and still be visible. If you like, I'll send you some or someone please tell me how to fix them right in Adobe Photoshop... Thanks. Frank | ||
| John Cinquegrana (Johnc) Senior Member Username: Johnc Post Number: 562 Registered: 07-2002 |
Thanks for the info Frank!!! Sorry about the Brazil thing... just playing with you. | ||
| Frank Dalton (Unscooter) New Member Username: Unscooter Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 |
No worries, John... Guess that's what I get for being a "New Member" ;-) Glad you liked the info. I've been wanting a diesel, again, for a long time and am glad to have done this project. Sorry I couldn't get any photos uploaded. Our computer's been acting up and I can't get to the camera's software to do the editing. Maybe Eric can shrink the pics I sent him and then upload them for us. They're a little dark, I'm afraid. Frank | ||
| Justin Sherfy (Jrsherfy) New Member Username: Jrsherfy Post Number: 33 Registered: 08-2003 |
Frank, You're now a STAR! I think I can speak for most of this site when I say that we are very jealous. Thanks for answering my questions. Enjoy your Diesel Disco. Now that has a nice ring to it, Diesel Disco. JRS | ||
| Justin Sherfy (Jrsherfy) New Member Username: Jrsherfy Post Number: 34 Registered: 08-2003 |
Frank D, I thought of one other question. Will your Disco pass Michigan state inspection? In other words, with all the mods you did to your rig, your not having to hide from the law, are you? I mean, it's totally street legal, right? If you don't answer this post I'll take that as a "no" :-) JRS | ||
| EricV (Bender2033) Senior Member Username: Bender2033 Post Number: 286 Registered: 08-2002 |
Frank, here are the photos, I resized them and adjusted the brightness and the contrast. Looks awesome!   | ||
| Frank Dalton (Unscooter) New Member Username: Unscooter Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hi Eric, Many thanks for fixing those photos ! I've got to reinstall that software :-( If you join the Yahoo Tdi group, I've got a bunch of photos there, too. Hi Justin, Nope, no problems here in Michigan... Thanks, again, Eric :-) Frank | ||
| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 198 Registered: 11-2002 |
Frank this is excellent. Did you use the V-8 transmission and if so did you change the torque converter for a lower stall speed? | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 208 Registered: 05-2003 |
Anyone know if this would be a legal swap in California? 'Cuz if it is...WhaaaaaaaaaaaWhaaaaaaa WhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaWhaaaaaa..Then shoot myself. After I recover, sell my rebuilt 3.9 to the Triumph/MG V-8 guys and do this. California is so f'd up, I'd be really surprised if they would O.K. it. | ||
| Frank Dalton (Unscooter) New Member Username: Unscooter Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2004 |
Geoff, Yes, I used a V8 auto box from Ashcroft and M&D has an optional "diesel" torque converter (probably also from Ashcroft). The 2.8 has so much torque that it can easily power the V8's auto box. Heck, with the variable vane turbo, it's building boost at idle (therefore, no turbo lag :-) Eric, If you can do swaps in CA (?) and if there are no inspections for diesel engines in CA (?), why would you not be able to make the conversion ? ? ? Sure hope you can ! It's GREAT ! Frank | ||
| Peter Carey (Peterca) New Member Username: Peterca Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2003 |
I started looking around at the possibility of this project about 3 months ago for a 110 with a 3.9 on the way out. I haven't got the cash together yet, but using numbers from some other 110s with 300TDIs, and with the high gas price at the time, I think the engine paid for itself in about 6-7 years. This is considering someone else puts in a new 4.0 as compared to the 2.8 for me, since I don't have the time personally (or most of the knowledge). I think at the time there was a delta of about $.25 between diesel and gas, if that helps with the ROI. It's also my belief you'll get more miles out of the 2.8 than a 4.0 or 4.6, so that has to be considered. It's not hard to find a mechanic anywhere in the world to work on it. And there are a number of "green" fuels as in boidiesel that can run in it. Heck, if you're going to put the engine in yourself there's no reason you can't make up you own biodiesel for $.60-$1/gallon with practice, making the savings that much more. Plus you get a nice cooked oil smell for exhaust. What had me most attracted was the range Frank mentioned. It'd be nice to loiter on a trail longer and not have to worry as much. Of course, you have to start looking for yellow fuel cans when you get low. :-) There is also a 2.8 Yahoo board you might want to subscribe to for more info. I know Frank is on both and has contributed a lot of good info as he has here. Frank, you mentioned the one wire concept, but I thought I read somewhere you might need just a couple more. I thought most of the kits came with an electric fuel pump and....uhhh...one other for something to keep it running. pwc | ||
| Frank Dalton (Unscooter) New Member Username: Unscooter Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hi Peter, Ah, hah ! You found me out ;-) Yes, I am on both lists. The Tdi is a little more active, but the HS2800 is dedicated to the 2.8... My photos are on the Tdi site, as the other is much newer. One neat thing about idling the motor on the trail for extended periods is that the coolant temp actually goes down 8^O Weird but true, although I must add that this has been during cold weather and with the heater on, but the temp goes right down to nothing... As for looking for fuel, when everyone else has gas cans, I completely agree. So far, it has not been an issue, but if we were on an extended run, one or two spare cans would be like an extra tank and a half with a gas Rover, I would think ;-) Regarding the "one wire" I mentioned, these are mechanical lift pump motors and there is no fuel pump in the tank. Some of the late 300Tdi motors had not only electric fuel pumps in the tank, but also EGR and electronic throttles :-P Since one of the objectives of this exercise was to rid us of any and all electronics that might leave us stranded (and everyone knows about the fuel pumps in the tank), that was not an option. The one wire is a 12V signal to keep the fuel solenoid open and, therefore, the engine running. That's it - nice and simple. One more thing about range: on our first club run, we convoyed to the Upper Penninsula with some friends that have a D90. Although those have notoriously small tanks, we would only use not even a quarter of a tank in the time that it would take them to run the gauge right down into the red and that was while we were still trying to break in the motor... Peter, I have to tell you, a 110 with a 2.8 TGV and auto box would be a fantastic combination !!! I sure hope you can make it happen. Also, if I can put in the 2.8, I'm sure you can, too ! If you do, I'll sure try to answer your questions. Frank | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 210 Registered: 05-2003 |
If one could arrange to run on biodiesel fuel, or used french fry oil...I think the fast food places would pay YOU to TAKE it away. Little to no fuel cost. Then, how long would it take B4 the engine paid for itself? | ||
| EricV (Bender2033) Senior Member Username: Bender2033 Post Number: 287 Registered: 08-2002 |
The more you drive it the faster it pays for itself! | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 946 Registered: 08-2002 |
Even if you had free fuel, it still take an aweful long time to pay for itself. In the states, this kind of conversion is definitely something you want not need. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 947 Registered: 08-2002 |
Frank, I did not see a post that had any time and dollar estimates are you willing to share that and any of the other web sites where information can be found on your project. Looks wicked. Brian | ||
| Frank Dalton (Unscooter) New Member Username: Unscooter Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hi Brian, Thanks... There are cost numbers mentioned in my second posting, location of more photos in the sixth, and as for time, that's a little difficult for me to say, as I did a large number of other "enhancements" during that time. M&D quoted 40 hours, so I assumed at least 80 hours, but it is likely much more than double that. Bear in mind that this is a very large project and how many of us have pulled the drivetrains out of our Rovers ? That was a very big undertaking in itself. I think their numbers are based on installation time, after pulling everything out and also that they have done this much more than I. Motor & Diesel Engineering have their website at http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/ I just looked at it and they have revised it. There appears to be a lot of information there. That is the kit I used and I highly recommend it. Also, it appears that there are others selling M&D's kits, but, of course, with a further mark-up... I went to the source and was completely satisfied. Frank | ||
| Peter Carey (Peterca) New Member Username: Peterca Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2003 |
EricJ, there are still some costs with making the biodiesel as you need other components. If you're a stickler for economics, there is also the initial cost of the equipment (there are more and more kits out there to cook the stuff like they have for making homemade beer). I think the lowest price I saw was the $.60 based on getting the oil for free. In that case, you still have to transport it (50gal drum = at least 400lbs) and filter, so the other cost is time. But I'd rather go that route if I could. Doing up large batches at a time is an option as it only has a haxmat rating of 1 I think for volitility, and all the others are zero. Brian, how long are you going to have your truck? In the PNW gas is about $1.60 for 89 octane right now and it's only going up in the summer when it hit $2.10 this last year. Figuring an average of maybe $1.80 and 15,000 miles driven in a year with 12MPG max in my truck (Discos are better in this regard) = $2250 a year in gasoline costs. Take the same truck getting 25MPG and $.80 a gallon (in a dream world making your own biodiesel) and you get $480 a year. If your engine is on the way out and you are thinknig of putting in another 4.0 for maybe $6K installed for you, you only have $7K to make up, assuming an installed price of $13K for the 2.8. That's only 4 years, or 8 years if you didn't figure in the difference between a 4.0 replacement and the 2.8. So only 8 years to pay for the engine by itself. The time would be twice that long if you just bought normal diesel and 4 times if you bought biodiesel from a distributor at current prices. "In the states, this kind of conversion is definitely something you want not need." In a economic sense, you're wrong. I don't want to sound like some whacked out Green freak or something, but if more of this country switched to biodiesel there is strong research showing lowered emissions level (except NOX) as well as virtually no need for outside oil form the Middle East to run cars. Sure there are other industries that use a lot of crude oil, but the thought that you HAVE to have it to run a car is outdated and narrow minded. There are people now running newer VWs with Tdi engines gettnig 45 miles to the gallon in the CITY. Imagine if the US could produce even HALF of the fuel it needed from rapeseed and soybeans converted into biodiesel. Imagnie how much more money would be pumped back into our own economy rather than being sent straight over seas to a fuel that will one day run out. Ok, I'm obviously getting off the topic, sorry. Frank, you give me hope enough that if I can scratch up the money, I just might try it with some help and a loaner car. When the weather gets warmer. pwc PS Just read that and I didn't want Brian to think I was picking on him. He just brought up two points I felt I could refute somewhat. | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 525 Registered: 02-2002 |
If you're going to do it, economy and time-to-payoff are just a small part of the equation. A diesel is much more practical for just about every reason, United States or not. I think Frank is the first person to post here that has ever provided all the information we've been looking for - thank you! What would that other guy say? Oh, yeah - Just do it! | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 216 Registered: 09-2002 |
I have to agree with Erik and some of the others here, the economic benefits and the time to pay off vs 4.0 or 4.6 is only one part of the equation in my book. If you look at is as an alternative to buying a new vehicle-especially since you have the opportunity to replace a great deal of the moving parts on your vehicle, not to mention strip her down and make sure there's no rust and the like it has some serious potential-especially as many complain that the good 4x4's are going away in favor of soccer mom mall crawlers. Going low-tech with one wire has a benefit all to itself, and the (I hate this phrase) 'value-added' of having done the work yourself if you go that route has the potential to pay huge dividends when you're on the trails somewhere and it craps out for some reason. Is if for everyone, of course not, but I know that I was convinced at MAR when I looked at a ex MOD 200TDI 90, the ECR doormobile-conversion D110 with the 300TDI and the Wolf D110. Frank's mentioned it already, but having a couple of cans of fuel gives you about 1,000 miles of range. Where in N.A. are you going to go where that isn't enough? I think this has a lot of potential depending upon what the individuals plans are for their truck-paying itself off is but one small part of the equation. I am certainly glad of Frank's postings and his very informative emails on the side, and I know I wouldn't mind following in this concept's footsteps. Just my .02... | ||
| Frank Dalton (Unscooter) New Member Username: Unscooter Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2004 |
AAAAaaaaawwwww, gosh...... You're welcome ! Glad I could help :-) If I had tried to rationalize all this with pay-off, ROI, etc., I may not have done it. This wasn't done for that reason. (You'll never guess what my degrees are in ;-) I think Ray hit on one big side benefit; we now have in essence a new Disco and they're not going to be making naught but "soccer mom mall crawlers" (thanks, Ray !) anymore, after this year. We're not intending on ever parting with our Rover - just love 'im too much. Now, we've got a motor that should last for at least 2~300 thousand miles, with proper care, so now it's a matter of caring for the other parts of the truck. Yes, I did do the work so I could have an idea of what is going on in there, should something unpleasant happen on a trail. If I were to do it again, since I've done it once, and if I ever had the money, I might look into having a professional do it, just because it is a sort of once-in-a-lifetime kind of big job, but it is very satisfying to know that I can open the hood and know exactly what is in there and how it was installed, down to the last nut, bolt, handmade wire harness and hose clamp :-) Heck, I could see myself doing it again... How about a 110 with 2.8 TGV power ? Peter, you've got the right idea ! I would recommend looking for a cheap, used pick-up for driving and hauling, during the project, and it is a great idea to have at least two friends helping when installing the trans/transfer box and the same amount for when the engine goes in. If anyone one decides to "just do it," let me know if you have questions and I will try to help. Frank |
