| Author | Message | ||
     Mike Jasper (Vulture99) New Member Username: Vulture99 Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 |
I currently own a 1982 FJ60 Land Cruiser that I love. However, I need to get something with a 3rd row seat. I'm looking at late 90s FJ80 Cruisers and also the Land Rover Discovery series. Both seem to go for roughly the same price used, with the Cruisers tending to cost a bit more. Anyway, I am sort of biased toward Cruisers but I'm pretty interested in the Discovery. I would love to hear from anyone who has experience with both. I'm mainly interested in the following: * off-road capability * on-road handling * reliability and longevity * cost of parts & maintenance * gas mileage I've seen Cruisers go for 200K miles with little maintenance, but hear others say to not expect the Discovery to last that long. What say you folks? Also - what years of the Discovery are considered "best?" I'm aware of Disco I vs. Disco II, but that's about it. Thanks much. | ||
| Enoch Snyder (Esnyder) Member Username: Esnyder Post Number: 85 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'll be glad to tackle this issue, which it seems most on this board want to stay away from! I've owned a 40, 60s, an 80, Series rovers and a Disco, so I've done a lot of thought about this comparison. I've currently got an FJ60 with 220K miles, runs great, very minor problems, infrequently. My wife has a 93 FJ80, 165K miles, runs great. Only problems I have or it had before I bought it (I know the owner) was an AC compressor, CVjoints, and sunroof leaking slightly, and rear main seal leaks (which it still does, but not bad enough to fix it). I also have a 95 Disco, with 90K miles and I've had it since 97. The list of repairs I've done to it would shock and awe any long term cruiser owner. Just today I'm replacing the distributor and steering box... But per your specific questions my answers are: Off-road capability- Our FJ80 has stock factory front and rear electronic lockers. Hard to beat. I'm running 33" tires on stock suspension. Also nice. Disco is a smaller truck, which helps. Better approach and departure angles on Disco, less fat on the body panels. I much prefer the 4 position transfer case (two locked 4WD and two unlocked all wheel drive modes) on the Disco, to the two position (one high allwheel and one low 4wd) cruiser version (although you can add a dash switch to allow you to have locked high 4WD). You need about 5" of lift to get 33" tires on a disco. This usually means springs, spacers, body lift, driveshaft mods, trimming fenders, etc. A 2" OME kit on an FJ80 and you can run 35s. I do think if you were comparing two stock trucks, if (and this is a big if) with no tire upgrades and no lockers, they would be very evenly matched off road, all things considered. On road handling- The V6 cruiser with 33s has much better acceleration than my V8 rover with 32s. Since the cruise is wider and a bit shorter, it tends to corner better, particularly at 55 mph plus. Reliability and longevity- While there are plenty of Discos on this board over 200K, I don't think anyone could reasonably say that you get 200K BEFORE you have maintenance and repair issues, which is standard for the FJ80s, it seems. Toyota electronics are top notch, Lucas not so much... Costs of repairs and maintenance- Repair costs and parts may be similar, parts are probably more expensive for the Disco (new distributor was quoted as $800 from dealer!). The real issue in cost I think is the frequency of repairs. Gas mileage- Stock to stock maybe not much difference, with an edge to the Cruiser. Right now my disco gets about 13, and the cruiser gets 16 or so I think. But my disco has a lot of mods that add wind resistance! All that said, an objective reader would think I'm totally sold on the FJ80. Not the case, because I love Rover products. But I wouldn't necessarily recommend a Disco to someone who has been a long-term Cruiser owner. They might hunt me down. Good luck with whatever you do. Sorry if I was a bit long-winded. PS- I think 97-99 model years are considered the best for Series 1 Discos. I can't speak for series II trucks. | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 116 Registered: 10-2003 |
This is kind of a toss up. The Disco will probably be about $4-$5K cheaper initially. I think the cruiser will last longr with less trouble, but I would say parts for the Disco will be much cheaper and more readily available. A buddy of mine has a 1994 FJ80 with 114000 miles on it on, and recently was in a light fender bender where his rear bumper and right rear fender flare cracked. How does $700 sound for an unpainted fender flare? No used ones could be found, so right now he is flareless as it was his fault and did not want to make the claim on his insurance for his vehicle. Bumper was even worse. Most if not all maintenance parts for the Discos engine can be sourced either locally through auto parts stores or through discount suppliers on the web such as www.dap-inc.com or www.discountbritishparts.com. I think a lot of people would say a good condition/low mileage 95 D1 would be a good inexpensive way to go, but my D2 has been a vastly better built than my D1. Some people have bad stories, but I must say neither of my Rovers ever broke down and both have been more trouble free than a comparable Ford, Chevy, or Jeep (not that they really are comprable). As far as other things go, both the Cruiser and Disco are pretty slow, although the Disco is marginally quicker but both guzzle gas. I think basically both vehicles will need some maintenance, and things will start to wear out over time on vehicles of this age, and here is wear I think the Rover will be a wiser purchase as it will be cheaper to repair and maintain. Of course, you could always get one of the last FJ62s and drop a big 350 in there. Heck, throw some lawn chairs in the back and you got a seven seater. Matt | ||
| Alan E. Foster (Vt_alan) New Member Username: Vt_alan Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2003 |
The FJ80 is an inline 6, not V, which helps with the torque ... may explain why it feels faster to you Enoch. For cool comparisons, check out a free program called "cartest" ... lets you change gearing, tires, vehicle height, etc. and calculates acceleration, top speed, etc. Of course, I don't know for sure if either of the vehicles in question are represented in cartest, but it's fun none-the-less. | ||
| David Woo (Davidwoo) Member Username: Davidwoo Post Number: 78 Registered: 01-2003 |
Mike: I think Spector has third row seats, www.sor.com. I sold my 1989 FJ62 and got a RRC: the slowness of the straight six just got to me after awhile. But overall, the land cruiser is a great truck. Got mine thru TLC in Van Nuys, CA. www.tlc4x4.com DW | ||
| Richard Grayson III (Skaramunga) New Member Username: Skaramunga Post Number: 27 Registered: 02-2003 |
i am a 96 discopig owner. i'm sorry but my friend just bought an 88 land cruiser, and i have little respest for it. it's a boat, with colonys of rust growing everywhere. hey better fuel ratio than a disco, but gangsta interior. i'm speaking for myself here and i am partial, but the disco is just different in a love/hate way. i'm sure that there are good reasons for purchasing a LC, but one you go rover you dont go back. comeon keep your automotive money in the northern alliance...dont feed it to overpriced, long lasting, dependable toyota empire. that would be like a yankee fan in boston... (please dont ban me for my ignorance...my last ride was a toyota tercel, now that thing sucked. | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 117 Registered: 10-2003 |
Now now, the inline six in the later land cruisers(1993-1997) is a DOHC unit with 212HP and something like 275 lb-ft of torque compared with like 155 HP of the earlier ones. However, I have smoked my friends Cruiser stock 32" tires in both my 96 Disco and my 01 Disco(both had bigger than stock tires). According to a Car and Driver comparison test of a 94 Cruiser it go to 60 in 10.9 seconds. while the 94 Disco did it in 10.5. The D2 does it in 9.9 and the 4.6 does it in 9.2. By comparison, the older Cruisers did it in something like 14 seconds. All this info is with stock tires of course. As to on road handling---who really cares. The Disco on stock tires gets better grip but has more body roll, a D2 has less especially with ACE. But they are not sports cars. Cruisers are even harder on brakes than Rovers. A few things you wont find are a Disco without oil leaks and a Cruiser with good center caps on it's aluminum wheels. The sad part of the above comment is that repairs for some of the leaks will proabaly cost no more than four new center caps. | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Senior Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 283 Registered: 07-2003 |
Could this be the difference?   | ||
| Dick Walker (Wyo183121) New Member Username: Wyo183121 Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2003 |
I sold my 1977 FJ40 and purchased a 1995 and a 2003 Discovery. Like the Discovery better | ||
| Corey (Discobro) Senior Member Username: Discobro Post Number: 309 Registered: 12-2002 |
I would agree with Enoch. And it comes down to what you are concerned about most. More than capable off road abilities for both, with some variations, or maintenance and reliability. Of course I left out the bells and whistles but if you like those the Rover is for you hands down. I have experience with all sorts of Toyota "trucks" (FJ60, early P/U's, Four Runners and newer Cruisers) and I would say Toyota is more reliable, generally speaking. Lucas plays a large roll in the spawning of little Rover gremlins, so to be fair the drivetrain on the Rover is a workhorse. I personally like the look and comfort of the Disco better. I am a tall person so being in a "truck" where you sit like you are in a car causing leg cramps doesn't appeal to me. I like the high position that the seats give you for full vantage points. All of the other issues you are concerned about weigh in favor of the Toyota. Prices are probably lower for Rover's parts however, only if you buy them indirectly and not from the dealership. So in the end I would suggest sticking to the Cruiser especially if that is what you know. There is a lot to learn about Discovery's. Some very cool and unique stuff but still a lot to learn. And to answer your question about which year/series is better (and to rebuke those of you that are about to flame me cause I favor the Cruiser) no Rover is alike. The same production line in the Land Rover plant could have 10 Discovery's on it and not one of them be exactly the same. Always something different (depending on if the technician had a flask in his pocket or not  ). Well with that said good luck! | ||
| noel Bond (93dico) Member Username: 93dico Post Number: 99 Registered: 06-2003 |
I had a 80, Series L/C, I now have a D1. The d1 is a lot lighter on the beach and quicker too. I like my D1 2c noel | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2003 |
Compare these two ebay listings. Both trucks same price, one is a 2001 and the other is a 1996. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2452923428&categor y=6443 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2453082386&categor y=6294 | ||
| Enoch Snyder (Esnyder) Member Username: Esnyder Post Number: 86 Registered: 10-2002 |
"comeon keep your automotive money in the northern alliance..." hehe. "the inline six in the later land cruisers(1993-1997) is a DOHC unit with 212HP" That doesn't hurt with quickness, compared to the 180some horsepower the Disco 3.9 has. "but I must say neither of my Rovers ever broke down" Dammit man, where do you buy your luck? And as a gentle reminder to some of the posters, I think the original poster was comparing FJ80s to Discos, not 60s, 62s, and 40s to Discos, which are completely different, leaf sprung, old school trucks. I like my Disco better than the FJ40 I had, too! | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 127 Registered: 10-2003 |
Aisle seven at most major supermarkets. It is right there on the shelf between the personality and good looks. I should clarify that, my D2 has never broken down and my D1 never left me stranded. Neither ever had to be towed. This can't be said for my Jeeps I had in the past or the 2002 Silverado I steal from my father a lot to tow with. Of course, I sold the D1 with 70k on the clock and I have only 50K on the D2. But this mileage exceeds those of the others except for one of the Heeps. | ||
| todd slater (Toddslater) Senior Member Username: Toddslater Post Number: 356 Registered: 08-2002 |
I agree with Enoch...except for one thing... me loves my FJ40 better than my D2 or my FJ62. But I am decidedly old school so that would make sense. | ||
| Bob Shinn (Bshinn) New Member Username: Bshinn Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 |
Mike, This is a timley topic, I currently own & drive an 88 FJ-62. I am picking up a 99 DII on Saturday AM. I agonized over this decision for a year & a half. My 62 has 230k on it & I would hop in it & drive across country tomrrow, but I also have a 3yo son & the lack of rear shoulder belts combined w/ the cruiser 1/4 panel rust forced me into a newer truck. After looking for an FZJ-80 for months, & not finding anything in my area that I liked 2 neighbors (both D II owners) talked me into looking @ a disco. I was able to find mine w/ 49k on the clock for about the price of a 95-96 80 w 100k+ on the odo. As a provious owner of British cars I have no doubt that it will be a bigger maint hog than a cruiser but I've heard good things about the DII. Seems the Disco owners are as rabid about their trucks a us Crusier geeks, so I think moving to the dark side will be a good experience. Over the past week, I've tried to get 10-15 Disco II owners to talk me out of buying, no takers, every one LOVES their truck. Good Luck Bob | ||
| Bob Shinn (Bshinn) New Member Username: Bshinn Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 |
BTW, I also did a lot of parts shopping before making the call. From what I have seen, 6 one 1/2 dozen the other. Fog light switch for the Cruiser $70.00 DII $19.00. Seems to be more used stuff available than for the FZJ-80, ref: the flair above. The price of a rebuild on a A440 slushbox is staggering. I guess the point I'm trying to make is owning a Cruiser ain't cheap either. | ||
| Dave Thomas (Dthomas) New Member Username: Dthomas Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2003 |
FWIW I have a BMW, a Toyota, and a Disco....Toyota parts are the most expensive. The Japanese really get a premium for factory parts. | ||
| John Roche (Jroc) Member Username: Jroc Post Number: 212 Registered: 08-2002 |
I tried sooooo hard to stay out of this thread, I swear! Enoch hit the nail right on the head! I also owned a FJ-40, and currently own a '95 Disco. I drove my 40 any and everywhere without ANY problems. I'd drive to Vermont from New York in a heartbeat. My Disco, well that's another story. Now before I get someone telling me that the problems I've had with my disco is due to neglect, let me state that I am the second owner of it, and the previous owner took it in religiously "by the book". With that said I can now start with the Long list of problems I've had with it in the couple of years I've owned it. Alternator shot, (went on a trip to Vermont LOL), Distributor shot, Fuel pump shot, stepper motor shot, and these you'll notice aren't parts that can be helped with proper maintenence. How about the lil shit that never seems to work??? The cruise control, the rear windows, the door locks, etc. all known problems on this board. Anyway, my point is that NO these are not trouble free vehicles, and if that's what you're looking for, look elsewhere. Do I LOVE my Disco, ABSOLUTELY!!! Why??? I don't know! LOL Comparing a Disco to a FJ 80 is a joke to me, that's why 80's goes for roughly double the price. Reliability is first and foremost. What good is a great truck off road if it's not reliable??? Is reliability important to you??? You want a gun that looks real nice and is very accurate but fires some of the time, or an old one that fires every time??? My '77 40 was a rusty piece of shit but, every single time I turned the key it started, I miss that. I can't think of one reason why this Disco shouldn't be as reliable as a FJ80. It's not inexpensive, looks built well, had alot of effort put into the design, what the fuck??? Alternators, distributors, these are parts that should last a good long time! I'll let everyone else here tell you the plus's. Good Luck Mike. And believe me I didn't list EVERY problem I've had! And all the guys that will go on and on about how great these trucks are, look at how much they offer people selling them. | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 140 Registered: 03-2003 |
I'm having a hard time staying out of this one too since I own both...well almost ('96 FZJ80 and a '91 RRC). Enoch hit it right on the head on all counts. What is not mentioned is that you can get a supercharger for any FZJ or FJ80 that's a plug and play for less than $3,000. In case you still need more power and torque with the 35" tires! The '94 (I think) and newer ECUs are already set for a supercharger. Also Jroc hit it on the head on the reliablity issues as well. One thing I noticed right off the bat is that a FZJ80 is very flexible. Meaning that with longer shocks, the suspension can flex like no other, even with sway bar attached. In fact, sway bar detachment isn't a big issue with the FJ folks as these suspension are very flexy. I do like the head room for the rear passengers in the Discos. Another thing to note is that the third row jump seats make passengers face forward. A simple mod can make the second and third row seats recline for more comfort. Have you looked at the 3rd members of both vehicles? The drivetrain on a Toy is very beefy and this is a popular swap in Oz. It's not uncommon to see Toy drivetrain in a LR. However, if you got with 35" tires then you'll need to upgrade the usuals (axles, cv joints, etc). After markets parts are plenty for both but can be cheaper for Toys in the US. For example: Toy 4.11 R&P is around $180 vs $400 for LR R&P. Speedometer correction gear for running 33" tires is $70, ARB front winch bumper cost same for both. Making up sliders for a FJ is a piece of cake due to the fact that the body is straight and not curved. Sliders are attached to the frame, not the sill. My .02 cents. | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 141 Registered: 03-2003 |
Matt, Tell your buddy that if he can't find used fender flares for his Toy, then he ain't trying hard enough! These are a dime a dozen. Check out cruiserparts.net or the classifieds at IHDMUD.COM. People are taking these off and leaving them off for rock crawling. Ali | ||
| Alen Babayan (Alen) Member Username: Alen Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ali, you better post a pic to see how flexy your stock FJ80 is. | ||
| Joe M. (Little_joe) Senior Member Username: Little_joe Post Number: 292 Registered: 11-2002 |
I completely agree with John Roche as well. My 96 Disco has been an enormous and expensive headache and I have no confidence in it all. My Toyota 4x4, on the other hand - I'd get in it right now and drive anywhere and not flinch. It has been beat on, has more miles, and never fails. IMHO Toy parts aren't expensive, it's also offset by the fact that you rarely have to buy any. The only non-self-inflicted repairs I've had on mine in 8 yrs are a rear wheel bearing ($10) and an idler bearing ($40). That's equivalent to about 3 days of Disco ownership. joe | ||
| Enoch Snyder (Esnyder) Member Username: Esnyder Post Number: 88 Registered: 10-2002 |
"it's also offset by the fact that you rarely have to buy any" A better stating of my first point. Parts could actually be MORE expensive, but your net repair bills would be far less because of less frequency. A straight parts price comparison is not worth much. "The only non-self-inflicted repairs I've had on mine in 8 yrs are a rear wheel bearing ($10) and an idler bearing ($40). That's equivalent to about 3 days of Disco ownership." You can always tell who got the Friday afternoon trucks from good old Solhull, eh?! | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) Senior Member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 666 Registered: 11-2002 |
I love my Disco more than anything I have ever owned... But my next vehicle will be another Toyota. Less headaches all around. | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 134 Registered: 10-2003 |
For those that haven't seen this video from BBC's programme Top Gear: http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/prog28/hilux_broadband.ram Victor | ||
| Justin Sherfy (Jrsherfy) New Member Username: Jrsherfy Post Number: 35 Registered: 08-2003 |
Victor, So when are they going to try that with a Disco? JRS | ||
| Corey (Discobro) Senior Member Username: Discobro Post Number: 312 Registered: 12-2002 |
Yes, unfortunately I agree with Greg. I think my next purchase will be a Cruiser. Although I love my Disco I am just too busy to keep up with it. Maybe after my next Cruiser dies (like in 2030) I can get the "classic" 2010 Discovery IV... | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 135 Registered: 10-2003 |
Justin, Same question I asked myself. The problem may have been that they did, and there wasn't enough tape to put a programme together. I think a lot of the durability was due to the diesel engine. They seem to be able to take a licking and keep on ticking. Victor | ||
| Ed Mah (Emah) New Member Username: Emah Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2003 |
I didn't bother to read all the listing due to time and the feeling I usually get on this board but in my opinion, go for the cruiser. I have a 95 DI which I bought new and a 94 FJ 80 which I also bought new. I love them both but only the DI is my toy that is pimped out for off roading. It's fun, awesome for off road and also expensive to maintain. If you go with a rover, expect to pay through the a... for parts and lots of maintenance. For family and mostly street use and comfort, you can't beat the Landcruiser. I have had no major problems with the 80 and it has over 100,000+ miles. My FJ60 has over 200,000+ miles and still runs great. I honestly have not take my 80 off roading due to it being my wife's car but in Venezuela where she is from, that is the ideal and preferred car in all the off road clubs. They are built like tanks completely stock. Have you seen the underside...size of axles, beefy sized pumpkins, front radius arms and rear links, etc.... All you need to do to that car is a suspension lift and bigger tires if you wanted to keep it cheap and you are ready. Cost of maintaining is a minimum on toyota and parts are cheap compared to rovers. That's it. Good luck, Ed |
