| Author | Message | ||
     Ed Mah (Emah) New Member Username: Emah Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2003 |
I have a 95 DI with an OME 3" lift. Any suggestions on what brand and length shocks to go with if I want to upgrade to longer travel shocks? I am also considering a RTE 1.5" front spring spacer with a shock relocation kit and changing the rear spacer to 1.5" from EE with extra HD springs in the rear. Should I use 12" in the front and 14 in the rear or is that too long? Fox or Bilstein? What model and length? Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks, Ed | ||
| marc olivares (Pugs) Senior Member Username: Pugs Post Number: 291 Registered: 12-2002 |
ed, i 've got a ome 3" lift and i'm running a 10" fox in the front and a 11" fox in the rear (retained springs). a 12" fox will work in the rear with drop cones but a fox 14" is way to big for that lift. (a fox 12" shock is as long as a rancho 9012, which most consider a 14" shock) why extra heavy spring? do you carry really heavy load? and i'm a little confused about your spacer thought. an ome 3" lift does not require a front spacer, which springs are you planning on using? other things to consider, unless the bind is relieved on your front radius arms, even a 10" shock would not use it's full travel. shock mounts will also need to be addressed (rte rears, D2 towers/ custom towers in front, etc...) the shock issue is just one of the many issues you will find once you have reached the 3" lift. oh, bilsteins are great to, but stick with the 7100 series short bodied shock, same lengths will apply. hope that helps? marc | ||
| Ed Mah (Emah) New Member Username: Emah Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2003 |
Marc, I currently run the OME 3" lift as per John Lee at EE. The comment on the front RTE spacer was that I am considering adding that spacer in the front to the OME 3" lift and changing the rear spacer from 1" to 1.5" and changing the rear spring only to E HD like Ho did because on long trips, I carry heavy loads due to taking the whole family on long extended trip. I figure the E HD springs and spacer on the rear will even the sagging a bit more. Are your fox shocks the resevoir type...what model are they and how much do they go for? I am planning to get the rear spring upper retainers too. Is there much difference between the 11 and 12" shocks? What do you mean by relieving the bind? Shock mount have to be changed for longer shocks or for fox and bilstein brands only? OME shocks in front are they 10"? So with OME lift now I only need to change the length of the rear shocks...? Thanks for you insight Marc. Ed | ||
| peter nova (Peter) Member Username: Peter Post Number: 65 Registered: 07-2003 |
I would go with bilstein 5150īs. if you go to their website you can pick the lengths and part numbers. | ||
| marc olivares (Pugs) Senior Member Username: Pugs Post Number: 294 Registered: 12-2002 |
hey ed, i got your email, lets see if we can sort through this. by your post, i'm assuming that you are currently running a ome764 in front and a ome 762 w/ 1" spacer in rear. you do realize that by adding a 1.5" spacer to the front and an additional .5" taller spacer in the rear, your disco will effectively be 1" taller in the front. the extra heavy ome springs will not yeild any additional height, but will allow you to maintain a constant height when fully loaded. these springs will carry around 350-360 pounds per inch vs. the 300-340 pounds per inch of the 762. question, why the additional height? are you trying to go with a bigger tire? i'm not quite sure how Ho has is disco set up, have you asked him? by your comment, i'm thinking that he is running the 764 in the front, and the 763 w/ 1.5" spaced rear. that to me would seem to be a great combo if you truly pack a lot of gear. otherwise those rear springs are pretty stiff unladen. as far as shocks, the fox shock can be ordered in both a remote res. or not. on my disco i have the remote res. but that decision is up to. i used the pro series 2.0 .625" shaft emulsion shock (980-99-232A, 980-99-239A) the obvious difference between the 11" and 12" is size. if you plan on retaining your springs the last 4" of the 12" shock will never get used, especially with a 763 spring. also the collapsed lengths differ by 3", which translates to 3" loss of up travel. ( not quite 3", but an example) relieving the bushing bind refers to the radius arm bushings. at this point there are two schools of thought on this matter: castor corrected arms or a 3-link system. the idea is this, when a disco is lifted there is a considerable amount of twist associated with simply placing a taller spring on top of the axle. the further the axle is moved away from the frame the more the axle rotates which creates bushing bind at the axle and where the radius arms intersect the frame. if you lift your disco 3", you have effectively lost 3" of downward travel compared to the shock radius arms position. on a radius arm that will yeild at best 12 total inches of vertical motion, 3" is alot. by relieving the bind on the bushings and correcting the axle to radius arm relationship you will regain the lost 3" of drop needed to effectively run a longer travel shock in front. there are a few rancho and ome shocks that can be used with out changing your shock mounts but beware, the valving will never be right for these heavy vehicles. the ome n115 front shock has a travel of about 9", but don't be confused by this when comparing to a fox or 7100 bilstein shock as the shock mounts will mount higher so the length relationship will be different. for instance the n155 compresses at 14" or so and extends at around 23", where the fox is 16" to 26". add a 1.5" mount and you're looking at an axle drop of 27.5" vs 23". i liked this setup due to the fact that when using the 764 spring in front, the spring will bottom out before the shock will and at full flex the springs just start to unseat. so, as far as what you need to change depends on what you are trying to achieve overall. as for the 5150s' that peter suggests, i looked at these shocks a while back, and even posted an inquiry about them, but after further investigation, i decided that i liked the adjustability, and rebuildability of the higher end shocks. good luck with what ever you decide, any questions, just ask. marc | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1214 Registered: 09-2002 |
Marc, I've rebuilt Bilstein shocks in the past. However... I think it's a common trait of all gas-charged shocks - the gas cushion robs them of about 2-3" of travel, compared to others with the same compressed or extended length. It may not be a big issue in the front of a rover, since the towers are pretty tall and can accomodate extra body length, but in the rear it may be tight. Also... castor-corrected arms do not completely alleviate the bushings' bind issue - there are also bushings at the axle side that get twisted, and there's no real way to make them twist more. | ||
| marc olivares (Pugs) Senior Member Username: Pugs Post Number: 295 Registered: 12-2002 |
peter, my comment wasn't that all bilsteins can't be rebuilt, just the 5150s, yes the 7100s and others are rebuildable and revalvable. and yes i agree that that castor corrected arms don't completely correct everything, but one consideration taken when correcting an arm is to reclock the axle to radius arm position to allow for addition axle twist when flexing (ie at full droop). there is always a "catch 22" when changing any of these geometric relationships. lift the truck, increase the pinion angle, loose the castor angle. correct the castor angle with castor corrected arms, then the pinion angle is to low and out of phase for a cv drive shaft. raise the pinion angle, then the castor droops back to neg. in the end, every change affects something new, so my long winded previous post to Ed was an attempt to explain that by simply adding a longer shock will not necessarily give you additional travel without changing other components. marc | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 432 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ed- If you decide to go with Bilstein 7100's try these: Front: AK7110SB (10" short body w/remote) Rear: AK7112SB (12" short body w/ remote) Valving is up to you but I'm using 275/78. You will have to change front and rear top and bottom mounts. Require's 1/2" loop to loop mounts so modified D2 front shock tower and fab or purchase the rest. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1216 Registered: 09-2002 |
Marc, I've rebuilt stock-application Bilsteins  And, Bilstein factory's ten minutes away from my work, so if I all of a sudden get pissed with my valving, I can take the shocks over to them. Never happened, though. All said - on a truck that needs as much articulation and axle travel as possible, I'd look for non-gas-charged shock. Besides OME, Leslie Bright once mentioned Black Diamond X-something shocks - worth taking a look. | ||
| marc olivares (Pugs) Senior Member Username: Pugs Post Number: 298 Registered: 12-2002 |
peter, please enlighten us with you experience, as i was told by a Bilstein rep. that the oe replacement, 5100, and 5150 series shock were a limited life shock and were not rebuildable. rebushable, yes, but that's not rebuildable. (not trying to start a flame war here, i'm sincerely interested). as for the Black Diamond line, it was my understanding that they catered to the domestic/ import markets and are were comparable to the Rancho line we all know and "love", my buddy has them on his TJ, i'll ask him what he thinks. marc | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2825 Registered: 02-2002 |
I've got Black Diamond XT's on the wife's.... They're a good shock. Strongly built. However, the company IS geared to Jeeps, Chevy/Fords, etc. .... I couldn't easily find a way to come up with a longer shock for a Disco... since the wife is running 225/75's, a lift or longer shocks were moot, so they are serving us well. It may be worth investigating alternate specifications, ie, figure out that the shocks for a X-year X-model of vehicle-A will work for longer shocks on the rear of a Disco, and Y-year Y-model of vehicle-B will work for the fronts of the Disco.... I've just not bothered. FWIW..... -L | ||
| marc olivares (Pugs) Senior Member Username: Pugs Post Number: 299 Registered: 12-2002 |
leslie, how much did the shocks run, and any idea on how they are valved? marc | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1224 Registered: 09-2002 |
Marc, all it takes is to compress the shock and keep it compressed, pop the retaining ring, and gently let the shock extend. The fluid will leak out, making a mess, but nothing will shoot out of the shock. You can keep the piston (that caps the compressed nitrogen inside) from getting out of the bore (and therefore keep the gas charge intact). Then, you have the valved piston in assembly with the rod and top cap in your hand, and you can do whatever you like. This is how the guys at Bilstein take them apart; I wish I knew it when I did mine. Later on, I've ended up with cutting a thread near the top of the shock body, and custom-made threaded upper cap, and a schraeder valve for nitrogen at the bottom of the shock (so my shock became rebuildable as long as there were no holes in the tube). All together, if made in the U.S., would have cost five times as much as a new Bilstein shock off the shelf. But it wasn't in the U.S., and labor and materials were cheap. So yes, you can rebuild one, even in the field. | ||
| marc olivares (Pugs) Senior Member Username: Pugs Post Number: 301 Registered: 12-2002 |
peter, so is it save to assume that this will work with the steel shelled stone covered shocks as well as the bellows covered shocks? wouldn't the cover need to be cut off the shock assembly and rewelded? if so, it seems like extreme measures to resort to on a $60 shock. marc | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2828 Registered: 02-2002 |
http://www.blackdiamondoffroad.com/ The site's not overly intuitive, but if you bash through it you can find shock specs regarding valving and application numbers, even for the Discovery.... I don't recall how much they were exactly, maybe something like $180 for the set of four or so, I had David at TRG order them for me, but he doesn't stock them... it actually took a bit to get the Disco-sized ones in, no one seems to stock 'em. -L | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1227 Registered: 09-2002 |
Mark, AFAIK, only steering dampers from Bilstein have steel stone shield. All others (at least all I've ever come across) had rubber boots. | ||
| marc olivares (Pugs) Senior Member Username: Pugs Post Number: 302 Registered: 12-2002 |
peter, i actually have a set in my garage, F4-B46-0243-110 TYP 36 / TYP 08 discovery front shocks that have a sealed shone shield. (and so the plot thickens.......) hey thanks for the link Leslie, interesting site. $180 for the set, oh man i think i paid that for one fox shock. marc | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1229 Registered: 09-2002 |
you beat me. sealed stone shield changes everything OTOH, I'm happy that out of 4 sets I currently own, none is sealed for good | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 189 Registered: 02-2003 |
front N73 Rear N29 (OME) | ||
| max garcia (Max_n_erica) Member Username: Max_n_erica Post Number: 42 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hi all I do not have anything to add to this except more "?" sorry. So my question is what front shock should I run? 97 Disco 2" rovertym lift with rear links. Current setup is bilstein 7112sb rear and rancho 9000 front. The problem: Had Rancho all a round and kept braking(sp) the left rear shock. After the switch to bilstein rear great feel and handeling but the front bounces. I have put the front off due to lack of funds but now it is time for winter projects 8^). Sooo what shock do I need for the front and how do I customize the tower to acomidate(sp)? Sidenote I don't understand the front drop. If I am retained in the front (spring) then I have the force of the bump stop pushing for leverage Right? Wrong? Indifferant? Thanks for any help Max | ||
| marc olivares (Pugs) Senior Member Username: Pugs Post Number: 303 Registered: 12-2002 |
peter, not really about "winning or losing", i just don't want to give out bogus information if someone knows differently. nadim, i too have used these shocks, as well as the n76s and in my opinion, they are not valves anywhere close for a heavy laden discovery. just my $.02. max, my suggestion is to call RTE and talk to Steve. they have the 2" lift dialed and he can offer consise fead back on that lift/ shock setup. the short time i ran a 2" lift i ran the Bilsteins. (at 3" they wont work). as far as retaining your front spring, this isn't necessary unless you plan to run an external shock mount. and at that lift,, an exo mount will not help you gain any drop without a 3-link type of a setup. so at this point i would not worry about retaining your front springs. if you want to run a loop-to-loop shock in front, do as Greg suggests at the top of the post. (this is what i did) change the front shock towers to D2 towers (cut off the square nut and re-drill the top for a 1/2" bolt. at the bottom use a u shaped mount, google search for TABS. i made mine, but avalanche engineering, poison spyder and FTM sell an assortment of tabs etc... i imagine the 10" short bodied Bilstein would work at that lift but i would check with Steve. marc | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1232 Registered: 09-2002 |
just like I said, all stock-application Bilstein shocks I've ever seen had blue plastic covers (I see 4 right now from my office window, two on a Toyota and two on a Tahoe), and 5100-series had bellows-style boots. I wonder what classifies as "bogus information"... | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 981 Registered: 08-2002 |
between this and lowered shock mounts you should get someof travel for the back and some for the front. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/drop/ | ||
| mark peterson (Mspeters) New Member Username: Mspeters Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2003 |
For my 3", for the fronts, i got FJ80 OME LTR001s from expedition exchange. They allow droop till point of 3/4" spring disengage. Maybe I got a handed pair of shorter lengths, but found it necessary to fit scorpion drop cones for front. | ||
| marc olivares (Pugs) Senior Member Username: Pugs Post Number: 304 Registered: 12-2002 |
peter- i was suggesting that "I", personally don't want to give out mis-information. i was not implying any thing about comments suggested by others. toyota, tahoe? i thought we were talking about a '95 D1 and it's said applications. Mark- how do you like the Scorpian cones, where did you get them, how much. i'm thinking i might need some for mine or just going limiting straps to save the shocks from bottoming out (at full flex)? any input? marc. | ||
| mark peterson (Mspeters) New Member Username: Mspeters Post Number: 15 Registered: 07-2003 |
Marc, I didn't consider limiting straps as the stock front shocks limit the down travel. The scorpion front cones came from roverlandproducts.com -- price for just the front was reasonable, 50ish each..made of stainless. You also need to map out the correct new increased bumpstop height. I almost considered hacking and rewelding the shock towers to add a 3/4 taller, but the cones work well. I went with LTR for preference over eye end adapters. I'm running Bilstein 12" 7100 short bodies in rear with Rtym mounts and their 1" down spacer. |
